Obamacare

[irishpat183]

Seeing this brings up an interesting (and somewhat ironic) point.

Reagan got this passed in 1986 with the Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor Act.

Basically saying, "You don't need insurance, we'll treat you regardless."

People argue about it inflating health care costs, insurance costs, ect.

Now, we're requiring individuals to have health insurance.

Basically saying, "If you want treated, you need insurance."

People argue about it inflating health care costs, insurance costs, ect.

Damned if you do. Damned if you don't.

And you're right. I just prefer the private sector over government rule.

 

[GoIrish41]

And you're right. I just prefer the private sector over government rule.

If you didn't have insurance, I don't think you'd care who was providing it. The fact of the matter is that nobody was helping millions of people so the government stepped in. There wasn't another option for them.

 

[ab2cmiller]

I think it would've been much more constructive to focus on getting those without health insurance catastrophic coverage. The cost would've been far less. With "normal" coverage, when this thing goes bad, our deficits will be much worse then the high levels we already have.

 

[Woneone]

And you're right. I just prefer the private sector over government rule.

ObamaCare is going to drive MILLIONS to the private sector for insurance.

I think where we differ is the future. I can understand the argument that the current regulations are too tight. I agree.

But I see the regulations loosening and staying with the private sector, not a full government take-over.

 

[GoIrish41]

I would love to hear those suggestions. I'm all for reform. It does need tweaking.

How many people are on this thread again? Because I'm sure I could round up some people that are positive on this system.

Say we find some cancer survivors and ask them what they think about advancements in medicine and the fact that they caught that cancer? Wonder what they think?

See, you can find both. I understand some people have gotten a bad shake. but helath care is like anyother industry...just because me and 10 people have had a bad experience at a burger joint, doesn't mean that they shoudl shut down the entire industry and hand over the keys to the guy running the auto shop.

feel free to go back from page 1 through maybe page 8 of this thread. but be warned, you are going to f*cking hate my ideas.

 

[irishpat183]

ObamaCare is going to drive MILLIONS to the private sector for insurance.

I think where we differ is the future. I can understand the argument that the current regulations are too tight. I agree.

But I see the regulations loosening and staying with the private sector, not a full government take-over.

See, I disagree. This is and always has been...about control and votes. You think politicans give a d*mn about giving us all care?? If so, why are they fighting for exemptions?

I think this ultimately drives private insurance carriers outta the biz. Because like I said...who can compete with the guy that has an endless supply of money to lose?

 

[irishpat183]

If you didn't have insurance, I don't think you'd care who was providing it. The fact of the matter is that nobody was helping millions of people so the government stepped in. There wasn't another option for them.

They get treated, they pay the bill. They don't have the money? they get on a payment plan.


So I'm not seeing the problem here.....Other than people being overwhelmed by large health care bills. But that's life. Even those with insurance have bills.

 

[irishpat183]

I think it's sad we're all here typing on the internet instead of donating time to charity. While people are starving. And dying. And dying of starvation. We're all terrible, terrible people.

I see what you did there.....

And you're right. Everyone has a "sob" story

 

[PraetorianND]

Really? The emotional card?


You're going to tell me that you aren't willing to work a second or third job, pay for your own care instead of sapping it outta somone else's pocket?

I have yet to see a McDonalds that isn't hiring.


Face it. People are selfish beings. It's just one group is willing to lay it all on the line and work hard to fulfill their desires. The other group just waits until it comes to them, or the opportunity to take from another.

I don't think you live in reality. That's why I cited the Universal Declaration on Human Rights. Healthcare is emotional, it is a big deal, people are literally dying. When you make a purely economic or political debate you dehumanize yourself. This is not purely economical or political. YES I am playing the emotional card.

I agree that people can be greedy and selfish. However, I don't think everyone without healthcare is that way, nor do I think that if it is universal, people will simply stop working because now they can survive without having to.

 

[PraetorianND]

I think it's sad we're all here typing on the internet instead of donating time to charity. While people are starving. And dying. And dying of starvation. We're all terrible, terrible people.

I think it's sad that you resort to joking about something serious. These things really happen, in the real world. You're a joke.

 

[Woneone]

Actually it's you that doesn't live in reality.

Are you familiar with our welfare system?? LOL. Are you kidding me? It happens daily. Our system is BROKEN because of people taking advantage of our "Please take one piece...Be Honest" system.

Good God, man.

Mind Numbing: Michigan Woman Wins $1 Million Lottery and Stays on Welfare UPDATE: Cut off Benefits | The Lone Republic | News, Politics and Opinion from a Liberty perspective

 

[Rizzophil]

One fact for everyone when Obamacare is fully implemented - if you are admitted to the ER with a brain bleed, and you are 70 years old, you are not covered by Medicare to receive surgery. The only thing you will receive is pain medication to feel comfortable.

I can't believe this isn't a bigger part of the election. The more I understand this law, the more I become convinced it's the worst legislation ever passed in this country.

 

[GoIrish41]

Actually it's you that doesn't live in reality.

Are you familiar with our welfare system?? LOL. Are you kidding me? It happens daily. Our system is BROKEN because of people taking advantage of our "Please take one piece...Be Honest" system.

Good God, man.

Some do this, sure. But if you think that everyone who is on welfare is taking advantage so they don't have to work, you are oversimplifying the issues of the day. Nobody wants to live in poverty, Pat. If most of these people could break the cycle they most certainly would do it. Many don't have the opportunity. It is not helpful that you and many others talk about them as if they were just a giant weight dragging down this country. They are human beings. Human beings in this country, in this century, should have access to healthcare. Taking care of one another is what a civilization is supposed to do. We are supposed to be what Reagan called the shining city on the hill -- we're supposed to be better than this.

 

[PraetorianND]

Actually it's you that doesn't live in reality.

Are you familiar with our welfare system?? LOL. Are you kidding me? It happens daily. Our system is BROKEN because of people taking advantage of our "Please take one piece...Be Honest" system.

Good God, man.

This sounds like classic Hobbes v. Locke. I side with Locke. I believe people are inherently good.

 

[GoIrish41]

If it were that serious you wouldn't be typing on your computer right now.

You see, this is what annoys me to no end. This is a discussion board, and people are having a discussion -- a good healthy discussion about issues this country is facing. Why be suck a d*ck? They guy is telling you what he believes and you are trying to sh*t all over him. Knock it off!

 

[Irish Houstonian]

One fact for everyone when Obamacare is fully implemented - if you are admitted to the ER with a brain bleed, and you are 70 years old, you are not covered by Medicare to receive surgery. The only thing you will receive is pain medication to feel comfortable.

I can't believe this isn't a bigger part of the election. The more I understand this law, the more I become convinced it's the worst legislation ever passed in this country.

Not only that, but even on its best day it costs everybody more, taxes everyone more, robs $ from Medicare, forces Catholic institutions to cover contraception, and only insures half of the 40 million people it was supposed to.

It'd be better to just tax everyone and give out health-insurance vouchers to the uninsured.

 

[IrishLax]

You see, this is what annoys me to no end. This is a discussion board, and people are having a discussion -- a good healthy discussion about issues this country is facing. Why be suck a d*ck? They guy is telling you what he believes and you are trying to sh*t all over him. Knock it off!

+1 on this

 

[Irish Houstonian]

You see, this is what annoys me to no end. This is a discussion board, and people are having a discussion -- a good healthy discussion about issues this country is facing. Why be suck a d*ck? They guy is telling you what he believes and you are trying to sh*t all over him. Knock it off!

Even if you don't understand the point, you should calm down.

 

[PraetorianND]

Even if you don't understand the point, you should calm down.

Unbelievable.

 

[GoIrish41]

Even if you don't understand the point, you should calm down.

You can pretend that your brilliant ideas are too complex for my mind to understand, but you are being a total jerk. You can disagree without trying to belittle people.

 

[Irish Houstonian]

I'm not belittling anyone. So far I've been called a dick, a joke, "suck a dick" and a jerk. All in about 15 minutes.

I, on the other hand, haven't said anything of the kind.

 

[PraetorianND]

I think it's sad we're all here typing on the internet instead of donating time to charity. While people are starving. And dying. And dying of starvation. We're all terrible, terrible people.

.....

 

[irishpat183]

I'm not belittling anyone. So far I've been called a dick, a joke, "suck a dick" and a jerk. All in about 15 minutes.

I, on the other hand, haven't said anything of the kind.

that's usually the case. welcome to my world.

Another example of the blind mob of rage

 

[Irish Houstonian]

And??? That's 100% true.

Nobody typing on the internet right now has any moral claim against others regarding how they spend their time or money.

[EDIT -- meant in response to my quote]

 

[GoIrish41]

that's usually the case. welcome to my world.
Another example of the blind mob of rage

If it happens all the time, maybe its you. just sayin'

 

[irishpat183]

Some do this, sure. But if you think that everyone who is on welfare is taking advantage so they don't have to work, you are oversimplifying the issues of the day. Nobody wants to live in poverty, Pat. If most of these people could break the cycle they most certainly would do it. Many don't have the opportunity. It is not helpful that you and many others talk about them as if they were just a giant weight dragging down this country. They are human beings. Human beings in this country, in this century, should have access to healthcare. Taking care of one another is what a civilization is supposed to do. We are supposed to be what Reagan called the shining city on the hill -- we're supposed to be better than this.

Everyone DOES have the opportunity.

Who is denying anyone an opportunity to do anything.


We are better. Just not perfect(because over 80% is fantastic). That is what you have problem with. And it's a problem that you cant fix.

 

[irishpat183]

If it happens all the time, maybe its you. just sayin'

Most of the time it is.

But I don't hide from it. And when it's not me, I'll defend myself.

 

[PraetorianND]

And??? That's 100% true.

Nobody typing on the internet right now has any moral claim against others regarding how they spend their time or money.

[EDIT -- meant in response to my quote]

No, what you were doing was taking a point I was making, and turning it into a joke. When you do stuff like that people get upset. Show some respect. The sarcasm is dripping off your post man. Come on....

Just be respectful and nobody is going to lash out at you. We obviously have different views and when that's the case people are going to be hypersensitive when you are condescending, sarcastic, etc.

If you think I'm a hypocrite for saying that people should be willing to give back to help the less fortunate on Irish Envy rather than out helping the community in some way then I don't really have a good response. I'm at work, got caught in a political discussion and was responding.

 

[ab2cmiller]

If it happens all the time, maybe its you. just sayin'

Pot meet kettle

Edit:
Disclaimer: In no way was I intending this to be a racial remark. Please, please don't call me a racist.

 

[GoIrish41]

You are simply being intellectually dishonest if you believe a kid living in the projects in the Watts neighborhood of LA has any opportunities. We're talking about people's lives and you are trying to make rhetorical points that are a million miles from reality. But, you have health insurance, so all is right with the world. We'll make some "tweaks" some day.