Nov 9 | Pittsburgh

[Patulski]

Point?

Chuck Martin's playcalling tonight wasn't the issue.

Given Rees's career effectiveness rolling out and throwing on the run, how can you justify continuing to have him roll out and throw on the run? It is stubborn idiocy, and it bit Martin right in the a$$ tonight.

 

[OlympiaIrishFan]

Irish Insanity, 2 of the 3 loses are right on tommy. Today 100% for sure, and the stupid plays versus Michigan too. OK was more of a team loss.

Go back and look coming into this year Tommy against good teams averaged under 200 yards per game and 11 TDS and 22 Turnovers. So, Tommy is more to blame than most anybody else on loses. When he is bad, he is bad.

FSU bowl game he threw 2 pics in the endzone and we lost by 9.

over and over and over.

Same mistakes and he is a freaking senior.

 

[ulukinatme]

Are you nuts? Atkinson averaged 9.5 yards per carry on 6 carries. Cam averaged 2.4 ypc on 9 carries. Follson averaged 3.3 ypc on 4 carries. Atkinson also had a 41 yard kickoff return. Cam? 11 yards.

The guy that is being underutilized is Atkinson.

Atkinson is being underutilized? Maybe if he ran like a back he'd be getting a majority of the carries again. Atkinson had his big run, which he pulls out once every 3 games or so. Cam is the steady guy that stepped up when Atkinson was getting stopped earlier in the season by guys smaller than him, running with his pads too high. Not Cam's best game, but we're talking 9 carries, that's not a lot for most backs. We weren't opening up great holes between the tackles tonight. GAIII's big run came when he was bounced to the outside.

 

[BGIF]

Final Stats ND 21 PIT 28

Final Stats ND 21 PIT 28

ND PITT
1ST DOWNS 16 23
Rushing 3 8
Passing 12 13
Penalty 1 2
3RD DOWN CONV 5-14 3-13
4TH DOWN CONV 1-2 0-0
PUNTS - AVG 5-46.2 9-41.9
RETURN YARDS 99 113
Punts - Returns 2-14 2--6
Kickoffs - Returns 4-85 3-79
Int - Returns 0-0 2-40
PENALTIES - YARDS 5-45 5-45
FUMBLES - LOST 1-1 1-0
TOTAL NET YARDS 456 346
Total Plays 63 76
Average Gain 7.2 4.6

NET YARDS RUSHING 138 112
Rushes 24 41
Rushes - Avg 5.8 2.7
NET YARDS PASSING 318 234
Comp. - Att. 18-39 22-35
Yards Per Pass 8.2 6.5
Sacked - Yards Lost 0-0 1-9
Had Intercepted 2 0
TOUCHDOWNS 3 4
Rushing Touchdowns 1 2
Passing Touchdowns 2 2
Other 0 0
EXTRA POINTS 3-3 4-4
Kicking 3-3 4-4
FIELD GOALS 0-1 0-0
SAFETIES 0 0
Possession 23:27 36:33

 

[OlympiaIrishFan]

Irish Insanity, those 2 turnovers lead to us not scoring 3 or 7 in the end zone and lead to a TD on the runback.

That is 10/14 points. How many did we lose by? 7

Did Tommy throw the ball wrongly in the end zone? Yes Did he over throw our TE for the other INT?

100% on him, and they weren't wrong routes/tips/fall downs etc. 100% on tommy and we lost by 7 and those were 10/14.

Now the Day and Fox boneheaded play on the fumble would only have been 7 points. But, 10/14 directly on Tommy. Not talking about the grounding or other inaccurate passes.

Whether you like it or not, #1 reason was Tommy Turnover tonight.

 

[irishtrooper]

We had some funny stuff go our way...I'm beginning to think that was just a lucky year.

And if not, the Tommy really is THAT bad and we need to let a little cheating go unnoticed

I am not a Tommy-hater guy. I think unfortunately he is our only real option right now, but yes he really is THAT bad sometimes. We are not at a point where we can afford the types of mistakes he makes a at the worst possible time in a couple games each season. I believe funny stuff may have gone our way, but we beat very good teams last year and that takes a good team to do it more than once. Hopefully I am not just drinking the kool aid, but I dont think we are that far off

 

[Buster Bluth]

Given Rees's career effectiveness rolling out and throwing on the run, how can you justify continuing to have him roll out and throw on the run? It is stubborn idiocy, and it bit Martin right in the a$$ tonight.

This I will agree with.

But on the endzone INT the defender made a pretty outstanding play, dropping all of the way from the strong side to get in there. That's not nearly as bone-headed on Tommy's end as they get.

But yeah the rolling out is really the only thing that makes me pull my hair out. I get that they want to stay away from that Pitt DT, but I've never seen Tommy roll and do well without stopping to set his feet.

 

[irishpat183]

D is decimated. Offense is hit/miss and doesn't have much of an identity. We are missing Golson. Every team seems to play their best game of the season against ND. Not excuses, just painful observations.

Don't buy that for a min....it's more like, we're just not as good as some of you think.

If this was a flakey thing and we usually took care of business? I'd agree. But we are ALWAYS in a dogfight with teams that have no business playing with ND.

Great teams take care of biz most of the time...they don't squeak out wins against Navy and Purdue almost every year.

 

[Patulski]

Every team seems to play their best game of the season against ND. Not excuses, just painful observations.

Stop deluding yourself. Temple/ Michigan/Purdue/Navy and Pitt didn't play their best game against us. We suck. That's why they beat us and/or played us so tough. And they suck just as bad as we do. We are headed to the same Palooka Bowl as they all are, because we are no better than they are. We're just like them: Lousy.

 

[BGIF]

Individual Stats

Individual Stats

Passing CP/AT YDS TD INT COMP% YDS P/AT RAT
T. Rees 18/39 318 2 2 QB EFF 121.31

Rushing ATT YDS TD LG AVG TCH TYDS
G. Atkinson 6 57 0 33
T. Jones 3 41 1 35
C. McDaniel 9 22 0 5
T. Folston 4 13 0 5
A. Carlisle 1 6 0 6

Receiving REC YDS TD LG AVG TCH TYDS
T. Jones 6 149 1 80
B. Koyack 4 76 0 38
D. Daniels 3 38 1 16
J. Onwualu 1 23 0 23
T. Niklas 3 18 0 9
W. Fuller 1 14 0 14


Passing CP/AT YDS TD INT
T. Savage 22/35 243 2 0 QB EFF 140.51

Rushing ATT YDS TD LG AVG TCH TYDS
I. Bennett 17 57 0 11
J. Conner 10 35 2 8
T. Savage 8 11 0 7
T. Boyd 1 8 0 8
D. Street 2 5 0 3
J. Parrish 1 2 0 2

Receiving REC YDS TD LG AVG TCH TYDS
T. Boyd 8 85 0 17
D. Street 4 76 2 63
M. Garner 2 23 0 12
J. Conner 2 20 0 11
I. Bennett 2 17 0 14
J. Holtz 1 9 0 9
S. Orndoff 2 9 0 5

 

[ulukinatme]

Irish Insanity, 2 of the 3 loses are right on tommy. Today 100% for sure, and the stupid plays versus Michigan too. OK was more of a team loss.

Go back and look coming into this year Tommy against good teams averaged under 200 yards per game and 11 TDS and 22 Turnovers. So, Tommy is more to blame than most anybody else on loses. When he is bad, he is bad.

FSU bowl game he threw 2 pics in the endzone and we lost by 9.

over and over and over.

Same mistakes and he is a freaking senior.

Yeah, the 40 points we gave up to Michigan were all Tommy's fault. It had nothing to do with the fact we didn't want to stop Gallon and Gardner. The first pick six against Oklahoma was all on Tommy because he didn't anticipate getting hit in the blindside as he was throwing. The loss at Pitt was Tommy's fault for causing TJ to fumble at the 5 yard line, getting Tuitt ejected, and failing to keep the defense healthy going into this game.

Tommy isn't perfect, but the team around him isn't perfect either. You can point fingers if you want, but we're making mistakes at more than the QB position. Last year we got a lot of help from our defense and some lucky bounces. We're not really getting that this year. We're on pace to score more points than last year despite Tommy playing QB

 

[palinurus]

Point?

Chuck Martin's playcalling tonight wasn't the issue.

I disagree with this. From passing often on first down, to failing to feed Folston, to failing generally to persist in a running game that averaged 5.8 ypc, to doing nothing but pass with 9 minutes left when down by only 7, to calling low percentage passing plays when higher percentage plays were there all night -- these are playcalling issues. Let alone rollout passes and no back sets that deprive him of the play action passes that he needs. And even the whole philosophy was unwise: it was a score-quick-if-we-can-get-lucky plan that was lower percentage than just slamming the ball down their throats. This ended up in getting our depleted defense on the field sooner, which wore them out, and made its flaws even more exposed.

I don't blame him for the execution problems, which is another whole issue.

 

[wallym]

Games like this make me contemplate quitting. I know all programs lose sometimes, but do any other programs have nights like this where seemingly every possible crazy things goes against you? It is a sickening feeling, and I don't know if I can keep convincing myself that these things all even out anymore. There is something about this program where these kinds of nights are so familiar.

^^^^. This. Just destroy teams. How about a blowout win that's never in doubt. ALA, OSU , do it every week. Please tell me Kelly is as good as Urban Meyer.

 

[OlympiaIrishFan]

IrishPat, I have to change to your thinking. We are an above average program. With one super year. We are now back to where we should be with the structure as it is.

We are a 8-4/7-5 type team. Look at the last 10 years. It is what it is. And BK with the exception of 1 year seems to be that way.

I didn't think it was that way, but look at the results.

Hate to say it, or believe it. But, the results are what they are..

 

[Patulski]

This I will agree with.

But on the endzone INT the defender made a pretty outstanding play, dropping all of the way from the strong side to get in there. That's not nearly as bone-headed on Tommy's end as they get.

But yeah the rolling out is really the only thing that makes me pull my hair out. I get that they want to stay away from that Pitt DT, but I've never seen Tommy roll and do well without stopping to set his feet.

WTF? He threw the ball right in his hands? It isn't am "outstanding play" when the QB throws the ball right into a defender's hands. It is an incredibly stupid judgement. There is absolutely no excuse for it. None.

 

[OlympiaIrishFan]

Didn't think Urban was better than BK. But, he did it at Utah/Florida/OSU????

Stats are what they are. Debateable.

 

[Buster Bluth]

WTF? He threw the ball right in his hands? It isn't am "outstanding play" when the QB throws the ball right into a defender's hands. It is an incredibly stupid judgement. There is absolutely no excuse for it. None.

Which is often the result of a defender dropping in at the last second and the quarterback not seeing him. Am I too high, or did that defender not drop like ten yards from the other side of the play brilliantly? Full disclosure, at this point I could be too high...but I think I'm right here haha

 

[Patulski]

IrishPat, I have to change to your thinking. We are an above average program. With one super year. We are now back to where we should be with the structure as it is.

We are a 8-4/7-5 type team. Look at the last 10 years. It is what it is. And BK with the exception of 1 year seems to be that way.

I didn't think it was that way, but look at the results.

Hate to say it, or believe it. But, the results are what they are..

Agree. It is the painful reality. Our only hope as I see it is if Golson can take our offense to Cincinnati type scoring levels next year. It will be necessary, because our D is going to suck next year.

 

[ulukinatme]

^^^^. This. Just destroy teams. How about a blowout win that's never in doubt. ALA, OSU , do it every week. Please tell me Kelly is as good as Urban Meyer.

I thought you were done posting?

 

[Buster Bluth]

I disagree with this. From passing often on first down, to failing to feed Folston, to failing generally to persist in a running game that averaged 5.8 ypc, to doing nothing but pass with 9 minutes left when down by only 7, to calling low percentage passing plays when higher percentage plays were there all night -- these are playcalling issues.

I don't have a problem with any of these. I didn't think the OL was getting a good enough push and I thought Pittsburgh's DBs were weak. I'd have aired it out even more.

And even the whole philosophy was unwise: it was a score-quick-if-we-can-get-lucky plan that was lower percentage than just slamming the ball down their throats.

Now this I just think is wrong.

This ended up in getting our depleted defense on the field sooner, which wore them out, and made its flaws even more exposed.

Ehh perhaps.

 

[Patulski]

Which is often the result of a defender dropping in at the last second and the quarterback not seeing him. Am I too high, or did that defender not drop like ten yards from the other side of the play brilliantly? Full disclosure, at this point I could be too high...but I think I'm right here haha

A QB throwing into the endzone in a non emergency situation ALWAYS makes sure he sees the field before he releases the ball. He doesn't wing it across his body without knowing it is safe. There is no way to excuse the mental error. Kelly knows it. Martin knows it. Kelly just flat out called out Rees's poor execution in his Press Conference. You're definitely too high. Believe Kelly. He knows it was atrocious.

 

[OlympiaIrishFan]

Absolutely Patulski.

Our Dline is going to be missing 2 All americans and a rush end. How do you get better? Maintain, but we will have no true NT that you need in a 3-4. And our 2nd teamer Kona is gone too.

So, that plugger in the middle isn't here. Day---Please, he isn't. Springman?? Nope. And we only have 1 NT coming in as of right now in Hayes.

Jones insn't a true NT Too tall. Who are the backers?

Our Dline is going to be average at absolute best. Now we have an emerging superstar in Jaylon, but with the way Diaco has the defense going he never rushes the passer with his speed???

We will have to outscore everybody. And we are losing our LT next year along with Watt. We may get better with Watt, but we wont' be better at LT.

 

[wallym]

Well we wont miss your input. Go sit with all the other pussy fans on this site

Pussy? **** you. I never post, and just frustrated. Oh, and **** you. Did I mention, **** you.

 

[Kaneyoufeelit]

^^^ Wally mad

 

[Patulski]

Atkinson is being underutilized? Maybe if he ran like a back he'd be getting a majority of the carries again. Atkinson had his big run, which he pulls out once every 3 games or so. Cam is the steady guy that stepped up when Atkinson was getting stopped earlier in the season by guys smaller than him, running with his pads too high. Not Cam's best game, but we're talking 9 carries, that's not a lot for most backs. We weren't opening up great holes between the tackles tonight. GAIII's big run came when he was bounced to the outside.

Atkinson bounced it outside because he can. He has elite speed. Hell, Herbie was marveling about his speed on his kickoff return. And Atkinson has been running hard for weeks, which Mayock has pointed out numerous times, and is why he has more yards gained than Cam, with 25 less carries. Cam is Folston-lite. I predict every back but Carlisle is going to pass him by the start of next season.

 

[irishpat183]

IrishPat, I have to change to your thinking. We are an above average program. With one super year. We are now back to where we should be with the structure as it is.

We are a 8-4/7-5 type team. Look at the last 10 years. It is what it is. And BK with the exception of 1 year seems to be that way.

I didn't think it was that way, but look at the results.

Hate to say it, or believe it. But, the results are what they are..

Agree. It is the painful reality. Our only hope as I see it is if Golson can take our offense to Cincinnati type scoring levels next year. It will be necessary, because our D is going to suck next year.

If we all start lighting up the admissions office......



I'm usually correct. People just don't like how I come off. Understandably. I don't like to dance around a point. We will never be a top tier program the way were going. Ever. I hate to say it. But with the cards stacked against us the way they are in admissions, kiss those kids goodbye and we can all enjoy them during the BCS playoffs every year from our couches. I'm not saying let in the criminals...but it won't hurt the program to make an exception here and there.

 

[Kaneyoufeelit]

If we all start lighting up the admissions office......



I'm usually correct. People just don't like how I come off. Understandably. I don't like to dance around a point. We will never be a top tier program the way were going. Ever. I hate to say it. But with the cards stacked against us the way they are in admissions, kiss those kids goodbye and we can all enjoy them during the BCS playoffs every year from our couches. I'm not saying let in the criminals...but it won't hurt the program to make an exception here and there.

Humble Pat is humble

 

[palinurus]

It was ugly and frustrating, but most schools have at least one ugly loss every season. Ohio State has lost to Purdue in the last few seasons; Stanford has its share of similar losses; So Cal, even when they were good, would frequently lose to Cal or Oregon State. I grant that ND has not returned to a level of consistent excellence that puts us in the top tier; but ugly losses by good teams are not a rarity in college football.

 

[IrishFan4L]

Yeah, the 40 points we gave up to Michigan were all Tommy's fault. It had nothing to do with the fact we didn't want to stop Gallon and Gardner. The first pick six against Oklahoma was all on Tommy because he didn't anticipate getting hit in the blindside as he was throwing. The loss at Pitt was Tommy's fault for causing TJ to fumble at the 5 yard line, getting Tuitt ejected, and failing to keep the defense healthy going into this game.

Tommy isn't perfect, but the team around him isn't perfect either. You can point fingers if you want, but we're making mistakes at more than the QB position. Last year we got a lot of help from our defense and some lucky bounces. We're not really getting that this year. We're on pace to score more points than last year despite Tommy playing QB

All great excuses for Tommy, maybe if he could have kept the d off the field by converting a few 3rd downs they might not have scored all those points against us. When Tommy had to step up & make a play he can't do it not against Michigan not against oklahoma. Seems like everyone gives him praise because he puts up mediocre numbers against **** opponents not great numbers just mediocre & that's being kind to call it that but when it comes down to putting up against the ranked opponents we played so far Oklahoma, Michigan horrible & those teams really are not worth a **** they just have there names. Stanford which everyone thinks plays to our strengths will murder us & if Tommy throws as many passes against Stanford as he did tonight he'll have just as many if not more then 2 pics.

 

[wallym]

I thought you were done posting?

Some replies get me going again. Sorry . I really never post...just frustrated