Nov 5 | Clemson

[Irishcop]

Pyne just needs to discover the check-down. Defenses can't drop 8 on 3rd and long, double Mayer, and prevent Estime or Diggs from getting a short pass in the back-field with a bunch of green in front of them to make something happen.

Great point! Someone is open, Pyne just needs to find them other than trying to force it to Mayer.

 

[tko]

I can’t wait to see Mitch run the option to Pyne on short yardage.

 

[Ocjae]

Heading into town for the game but staying in Chicago. Bringing some friends with who have never been. Any good Chicago bar suggestions? Anything from good drinks to just straight fun dive bars, and anything in between. Been a while since I’ve been back some assume some things have changed.

 

[IrishBoognish]

Wow... yall are terribly optimistic from what I can see. I'm usually the green colored glasses/fluffer in comparison.

I'm not terribly confident at all. They seem so well rounded. Even though DJU isn't stellar, he's still pretty damn good and we don't have a QB.

I just don't see it happening as 1 dimensional as we are on O.

That being said. I pick the Irish by 11-14 points.

 

[IrishBoognish]

Pyne just needs to discover the check-down. Defenses can't drop 8 on 3rd and long, double Mayer, and prevent Estime or Diggs from getting a short pass in the back-field with a bunch of green in front of them to make something happen.

This just *has to be* the gameplan.

It just has to be.

Wheel routes, screens, and the occasional RPO/Deep shot to Lenzy/Merriweather/Colzie/Jayden



Maybe Zo looks like he wants to play with the Irish football team again? Who knows... a man can dream.

 

[arahop]

Hope the D can play lights out ND force about 3 turnovers. This is the way to victory.

 

[Redbar]

Heading into town for the game but staying in Chicago. Bringing some friends with who have never been. Any good Chicago bar suggestions? Anything from good drinks to just straight fun dive bars, and anything in between. Been a while since I’ve been back some assume some things have changed.

I really like Wells Street, several good bars but Declan’s is always a great ND crowd.

 

[Crazy Balki]

Wow... yall are terribly optimistic from what I can see. I'm usually the green colored glasses/fluffer in comparison.

I'm not terribly confident at all. They seem so well rounded. Even though DJU isn't stellar, he's still pretty damn good and we don't have a QB.

I just don't see it happening as 1 dimensional as we are on O.

That being said. I pick the Irish by 11-14 points.

I'm not overly confident, but here's a few things:

Clemson has really only played 2 halfway decent teams this year. Those being Syracuse and Wake Forest. Wake took them to OT and Syracuse was a drive away from beating them in Clemson. Wake's got a more dynamic offense, but their defense is North Carolina-levels of bad, maybe even worse than that. And we just watched ND dominate the Cuse despite Pyne playing like crap.

DJ looks better than he did last season (that ain't saying much though...), but his recent game against Syracuse, he was absolutely awful.

I think the one reassuring thing here is that ND has shown a tendency to play to the level of their competition. The same team that looked like duds against Marshall were also competing in the Horseshoe against arguably the best team in the nation, and slapping North Carolina and Syracuse around.

A lot of it comes down to Drew Pyne doing the basic things well. It's not like he hasn't done it. It's also a situation where you need Steve Angeli ready to go in case Pyne fails to perform again. ND can't get behind 10-0 in the 2nd quarter and keep him in. Clemson is going to have Klubnik ready to replace DJ liked they did against Syracuse. ND needs to be ready to do the same.

 

[MacIrish75]

If Tommy & Drew can complete >3 passes over the middle of the field, we win.

 

[EvilleIrish]

How is this game not sold out?

 

[TNUtoNotreDame]

How is this game not sold out?

We're terribly inconsistent and malaise has set in. We started with so much hype and hope, it died when we played Marshall. Honestly no clue, just guessing.

 

[Irish#1]

I think the D is going to keep us in the game. Clemson’s O-line isn’t that good, so if they can contain Shipley we should be in a good position to win. Especially if Foskey keeps up his recent level of play.

 

[notredomer23]

How is this game not sold out?

44 and rainy. I’ll watch from my tv (in Aruba tyvm)

 

[FOTY977]

Pyne definitely cannot do those things, obviously. He has a sub 50% completion rate the last 3 games, against defenses way worse than Clemson. However, if he can go for like 50% and 150 yards with no turnovers, ND will be in it.

I can't say I feel good about "no turnovers" going into this knowing how many tipped balls are coming on obvious passing situations given they'll scheme & talent their way into ND into being behind on down & distance.

Thank God that Venables is gone. I would have nightmares thinking about his blitzes against Pyne.

sadly it doesn’t take Venables to dream up nightmare fuel for him

 

[BleedBlueGold]

I wasn't originally going to post this but...

I was curious and looked back through the play-by-play logs for ND's last three and the Irish are just brutal on third and fourth down when they have to pass.

Against Stanford Pyne was 4-11 passing but one completion was short of the first down (and one drop back turned into a run that was short of the first down).

Against UNLV Pyne was 2-9 in those situations and 1 of those completions was short of a first down.

Against Syracuse Pyne was 2-8 plus on another drop back he took a sack.

All told, when Notre Dame gives Drew Pyne the ball on 3rd/4th down they converted 6 of those 30; or 20%. You can't live that way.

Yeah Sampson put some numbers in his article on the Athletic and Pyne was something like 1/14 when teams drop 8. Like it's basically a guaranteed 4th down if you get Pyne in 3rd and long and play drop coverage. He doesn't have the strength or accuracy to throw into small windows, and he can't see over the line to quickly find openings.

I’ve never seen a “game manager” type QB hate a check down more. He refused to look at Estime all Saturday. Usually QBs with his “skillset” are the opposite. There were at least 3 instances of 3rd and 4 - 8 where it would have been Estime with 4+ yards of cushion vs 1 DB.

I'm convinced Drew is mentally broken. Earlier in the season, I was pounding the table for Rees to manage him better (and the offense as a whole), but at this point, there's too much data to suggest otherwise. 90% of the failures on offense are because of Pyne.

This is nothing personal. By all reports, he's a great kid, teammate, leader, etc. But he might be the worst ND QB I've seen play. When the beat pods like ISD and II start talking down on a player publicly (statistically speaking...not personally), you know it's bad. Most of those guys are very professional and try to avoid bashing a player. But the gloves are off with Pyne. He needs to start playing better.

 

[IRISHDODGER]

I think what frustrates fans is that EVERYONE (fans, opponents, analysts, beat writers, ND players, Pyne, Rees) know what Pyne needs to avoid & what he needs to do. He just won’t do it and insists on doing the same thing the past three games. UNC is starting to look like an anomaly which makes sense considering the type of D Chizik insisted on running.

I have no idea what to expect from ND but I expect Clemson to be locked in coming off a bad performance vs SU & having an extra week of prep. They know they can make a prime time statement to the CFP Committee before the ACC CG. Sadly ND no longer being a true contender has folks & recruits looking for better teams to watch. If ND can make it a game into the fourth quarter, it should garner some press. Otherwise, only ND & Clemson fans will tune in.

 

[IrishLion]

Pyne just needs to discover the check-down. Defenses can't drop 8 on 3rd and long, double Mayer, and prevent Estime or Diggs from getting a short pass in the back-field with a bunch of green in front of them to make something happen.

That was mentioned by both Prister and Sampson in difference places when breaking down the Syracuse film. He doesn't see anything deep when teams drop 8, but he fails to check his outlets.

I guess it's a credit to Drew that he's keeping his eyes down field and trying to climb the pocket when it's 3rd-and-long against drop 8... but Tommy needs to get some draws or dives baked into his playsheet in those situations, and also coach Drew that it's okay to let his RB's try and beat a defender one-on-one in the flats in those situations.

 

[NDdomer2]

That was mentioned by both Prister and Sampson in difference places when breaking down the Syracuse film. He doesn't see anything deep when teams drop 8, but he fails to check his outlets.

I guess it's a credit to Drew that he's keeping his eyes down field and trying to climb the pocket when it's 3rd-and-long against drop 8... but Tommy needs to get some draws or dives baked into his playsheet in those situations, and also coach Drew that it's okay to let his RB's try and beat a defender one-on-one in the flats in those situations.

nothing has pissed me off more this year than having 4-7 to go and watching Pyne tunnel vision on Mayer while we have a WR or RB on the other side of the field wide open who would easily move the chains.

 

[dublinirish]

We're terribly inconsistent and malaise has set in. We started with so much hype and hope, it died when we played Marshall. Honestly no clue, just guessing.

blame Clemson fans for not buying up tickets from proper ND fans who use the marquee games to profit from ND football every year by selling their tickets to opponent fans

 

[Nostradumbass]

nothing has pissed me off more this year than having 4-7 to go and watching Pyne tunnel vision on Mayer while we have a WR or RB on the other side of the field wide open who would easily move the chains.

I am very hopeful we see some check downs Saturday. This complaint has been emphasized a lot by the talking heads. While I am not holding my breath, this criticism most certainly has to have reached the powers that be.

 

[Free Manera]

Pyne just is what he is. If ND disbanded the football program and the other CFB teams held a draft of ND players, he would be picked like 50th. Pyne is just playing the cards he was dealt; he hasn't grown since like 10th grade.

So, it's on Rees to figure it out. You know he can't beat drop coverage, you know he is bad at throwing screen passes, and you know he can't see over the line. Don't make him do things he can't do.

I'm not getting paid $2 million to figure it out, so I don't have the answers. But I know ND can't just keep asking him to do the same things over and over, when anyone with a TV can see it won't work. Move him out of the pocket so he can see, give him easy triangle reads on half the field, get some kind of RPO going that he is comfortable running, throw to Tyree out of the backfield more, something.

 

[Jimmy3Putt]

I have a bad feeling about this game.
Prison rape kinda vibe.

 

[Ndaccountant]

I have a bad feeling about this game.
Prison rape kinda vibe.

I'm not quite there, but it certainly feels like a 27-10 type of game where ND really never has a legit shot at winning. Clemson has the better qb, the best RB, the better DL, the better head coach. Considering the strengths and weaknesses of ND, it will take some serious improvement from ND to win this one and/or a Clemson meltdown.

 

[IrishLion]

Pyne just is what he is. If ND disbanded the football program and the other CFB teams held a draft of ND players, he would be picked like 50th. Pyne is just playing the cards he was dealt; he hasn't grown since like 10th grade.

So, it's on Rees to figure it out. You know he can't beat drop coverage, you know he is bad at throwing screen passes, and you know he can't see over the line. Don't make him do things he can't do.

I'm not getting paid $2 million to figure it out, so I don't have the answers. But I know ND can't just keep asking him to do the same things over and over, when anyone with a TV can see it won't work. Move him out of the pocket so he can see, give him easy triangle reads on half the field, get some kind of RPO going that he is comfortable running, throw to Tyree out of the backfield more, something.

Basically all of the things they did late against Cal and the whole game against UNC, which had great results. Two back sets with lots of motion, 11 or 21 personnel with someone ALWAYS in motion prior to an RPO look, whether it was a true read or not. Moving Drew to help with the easy throws in the flats and down the sidelines. Giving him high-percentage PA looks on occasion.

Syracuse at least saw a return of the reliance on the RB's. Idk why Tommy won't commit to the 21/22 personnel as a base look, though. The offense seems to be at its best when two of Estime/Diggs/Tyree are on the field. It opens things up for Mayer if they dedicate too many eyes to the RB in motion, or opens things up for Styles if they account for the backs AND Mayer.

More two back sets!

(BYU was a more traditional offense, and Drew's execution with the standard gameplane looks like a crazy outlier the further away it gets.)

 

[NDdomer2]

Pyne just is what he is. If ND disbanded the football program and the other CFB teams held a draft of ND players, he would be picked like 50th. Pyne is just playing the cards he was dealt; he hasn't grown since like 10th grade.

So, it's on Rees to figure it out. You know he can't beat drop coverage, you know he is bad at throwing screen passes, and you know he can't see over the line. Don't make him do things he can't do.

I'm not getting paid $2 million to figure it out, so I don't have the answers. But I know ND can't just keep asking him to do the same things over and over, when anyone with a TV can see it won't work. Move him out of the pocket so he can see, give him easy triangle reads on half the field, get some kind of RPO going that he is comfortable running, throw to Tyree out of the backfield more, something.

Maybe we're already doing the things he's shown he can do best to his abilities.

He might be god awful in practice at rolling out and triangle reads who the hell knows.

I'm certainly not sitting here today thinking "I bet there's something he's really good at that we haven't tried"

 

[irishff1014]

We're terribly inconsistent and malaise has set in. We started with so much hype and hope, it died when we played Marshall. Honestly no clue, just guessing.

I would say that the weather might be playing a part in this as well.

 

[irishff1014]

I did change my prediction due to the possible weather. I think we still lose but by no more than 3 points and maybe pull out a squeaker. possessions might be limited so gotta get points when you can.

 

[IRISHDODGER]

I think the D is going to keep us in the game. Clemson’s O-line isn’t that good, so IF they can contain Shipley we should be in a good position to win. Especially if Foskey keeps up his recent level of play.

Huge IF. Shipley is more slippery than the SU RB. He’s a much more talented version of the backup at UNLV that sprung two long runs vs ND. If they let Shipley slip some tackles for runs, they’ll either be house calls or 50+ yarders.

 

[Nostradumbass]

I hope we get some big turnovers. The takeaway defense is starting to heat up. The kids will be jacked. If we can hold Ohio State to 21, this same team can certainly hold Clemson to that. The question is whether ND can score more than that.

 

[GrangerIrish24]

Locals have ran now before the game.