ND Plays a Soft Schedule?

[CarrollVermin]

Here is the argument you get from SEC fans.

Say you are Mississippi State and you have an opponent average of 20.5 (I made it up) for the season, where you play Alabama, Arkansas, LSU each year, and you add in two teams from the East (UGA, Florida, South Carolina are possible) and you have your non-conference games against UAB, Western Kentucky, and other non-AQ teams, is that tougher than playing Michigan, USC, Stanford, and Michigan State along with other good middle of the road programs?

Their argument has always been that they do schedule the "weaker" opponents, but that do that to offset the top tier opponents from their conference season. Case in point would be LSU this year...play Bama, Florida, Arkansas, Auburn, and Mississippi State in conference, along with a trip to West Virginia, and a neutral site game against Oregon. Yes, they have Northwestern State, Western Kentucky, and another state school in there, but is that justified when you look at the rest of the schedule?

 

[Rhode Irish]

I think there is some legitimacy to the argument that they play a couple schools that are as good as anybody that any team in the country will play, and they balance that out by scheduling FCS schools and FBS also-rans. That essentially means they are playing 6 or 7 real games and taking a bunch of "weeks off" to regroup.

Notre Dame tries to run a gauntlet by playing a real team every week. Yes, some opponents are very good and some aren't quite as good, but there are no cupcakes or FCS teams on the schedule.

If you graded each game 1-10, with 1 being the easiest and 10 being the hardest, ND and a SEC team would probably end up with similar average score. They would get to that number differently, though, because all of ND's games will probably fall within the 3-8 range (except for when USC was the #1 team in the country), whereas a SEC team's games will run the full range of 1-10 or 1-9.

I think there are arguments to be made for both approaches being more difficult. On one hand, having to play 2 or 3 top-5 or top-10 teams makes it really tough to run the table. On the other hand, having to empty your tank every week against teams that could beat you if you mail it in also makes it really tough to run the table.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Isn't this the entire point of averaging the difficulties of each team to arrive at SoS? In terms of difficulty, playing a 10-9-2-10-3 and a 7-6-8-7-6 ends up being the same.

I've never read an argument that the SEC format is more legitimate; the closest I've seen is, "Only the SEC plays the best, so the rest of you are weak SoS posers." Excuse me if I'm not impressed.

To the extent that public perception influences the polls and BCS rankings, I can see how the SEC format probably helps them get into more BCS bowl games; if you can point to a few victories against high profile opponents, your SoS might appear tougher than ND's with a string of wins against solid, but not great, opponents.

I'm not really interested in perception though. Sagarin and Steele do a decent job of gauging true difficulty with their SoS rankings, and we're among the best in the nation using most any metric.

 

[IrishSteelhead]

Let's compare ND vs LSU's 2011 schedule top to bottom, pairing each game by perceived difficulty IMHO:

Oregon > Stanford (edge LSU)
Alabama > USC (edge LSU)
Arkansas > MSU (edge LSU)
Auburn > Michigan (edge LSU)
Florida > Pitt (edge LSU)
Mississippi State > Navy (edge LSU)
West Virginia > Maryland (edge LSU)
Tennessee = Air Force (push)
Kentucky = USF (push)
Ole Miss = Boston College (push)
Purdue > Western Kentucky (edge ND)
Wake Forest > Northwestern State (edge ND)

*I'm sorry, but LSU's schedule this year is absolutely freaking BRUTAL.

 

[IrishSteelhead]

I digress, we all know haters have one thing right, the polls LOVE ND, and 10 wins is an automatic ticket to the BCS. The haters just don't realize the polls take their schedule into account, and not their "name."

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Let's compare ND vs LSU's 2011 schedule top to bottom, pairing each game by perceived difficulty IMHO:

Oregon > Stanford (edge LSU)
Alabama > USC (edge LSU)
Arkansas > MSU (edge LSU)
Auburn > Michigan (edge LSU)
Florida > Pitt (edge LSU)
Mississippi State > Navy (edge LSU)
West Virginia > Maryland (edge LSU)
Tennessee = Air Force (push)
Kentucky = USF (push)
Ole Miss = Boston College (push)
Purdue > Western Kentucky (edge ND)
Wake Forest > Northwestern State (edge ND)

*I'm sorry, but LSU's schedule this year is absolutely freaking BRUTAL.

Ugh. Did I argue that ND plays the #1 toughest schedule in the nation every year?

No. No team does. LSU definitely plays the toughest schedule in 2011, and props to them for it. But I guarantee our 2012 schedule will be tougher than any SEC team's, including LSU's.

Take a look at LSU's average SoS over the last 5, 10, or 20 years. ND's will be comparable, if not tougher. (I'd love to know how College Football Data Warehouse calculates that SoS figure)

 

[IrishSteelhead]

Ugh. Did I argue that ND plays the #1 toughest schedule in the nation every year?

No. No team does. LSU definitely plays the toughest schedule in 2011, and props to them for it. But I guarantee our 2012 schedule will be tougher than any SEC team's, including LSU's.

Take a look at LSU's average SoS over the last 5, 10, or 20 years. ND's will be comparable, if not tougher.

Never said you argued that, just putting things into perspective. +1, 2012 will be the most epic schedule ever created when all is said and done.

 

[irishtrain]

I made this point without th background the other day also, and you're dead on...

but as is the case many different sports news outlets just go with what sells... not what is factual. It is unerving for sure. Selling that ND is cupcake and plays service academies every year is def. en vouge.

Agree with ACamp that this great info backs up all our thoughts on the schedule. Pretty soon they'll run out of even that reason when Notre Dame starts laying down the wins. Their will come a time when the schedule will be of no real importance as this program will makes its point. Like I've said many times-I wait for a Big Bowl in the SEC's backyard against an SEC team to close the door on all this bull$#@%.

 

[Rhode Irish]

Isn't this the entire point of averaging the difficulties of each team to arrive at SoS? In terms of difficulty, playing a 10-9-2-10-3 and a 7-6-8-7-6 ends up being the same.

Yes. This was basically my point. I think the two approaches are similarly difficult, but they are difficult in different ways.

To the extent that public perception influences the polls and BCS rankings, I can see how the SEC format probably helps them get into more BCS bowl games; if you can point to a few victories against high profile opponents, your SoS might appear tougher than ND's with a string of wins against solid, but not great, opponents.

Not only does it help you in polls, but this is precisely the reason that SEC fans think their schedules are so much more difficult than ND's. They don't have the motivation or the attention span to go find Steele's or Sagarin's metrics and study their methodology. All they know is that they play two teams better* than anyone we play every season (*allegedly). That is the beginning and end of their argument.

 

[kmoose]

2012 will be the most epic schedule ever created when all is said and done.

Let's not get ahead of ourselves. On paper, right now, 2012 is nowhere near as tough as 1988 was. And I'm sure we could find some other years that were just as tough.

 

[IrishSteelhead]

Let's not get ahead of ourselves. On paper, right now, 2012 is nowhere near as tough as 1988 was. And I'm sure we could find some other years that were just as tough.

Sorry, I did get excited. Maybe I'm just acting like an SEC fan and refusing to acknowledge that college football existed before the BCS started in 1998!!!

 

[ACamp1900]

The thing about the SEC fanboys is they tend to try and sell this idea that five of the hardest six schedules every single year come out of the SEC... and that is not even close to being true... It is not a case of them refusing to play out of the south b/c the schedule is too hard already, It is a case of they are scared shitless across the board to lose a big game b/c the whole thing means far too much for the fans down there... ZERO margin for error... that's also why rules don't apply in the SEC... rules and competitive balance go out the window real quick when 50k plus jobs are on the line every year... scheduling D2 teams in November when you're a title contender??? Only reason they do that is b/c they can not afford to lose games in contrast to other areas/conferences... period.

ALSO, as a general rule for cfb fans across the board, if you don't win a title every four years and dominate year in and year out then you 'suck'... and if you don't play a top ten schedule (even if it's a top 20) then your schedule 'sucks'...

there is no middle ground/just being good... you either win BCS games or you suck... get top draft picks every other year or you're horrible...

same goes for the scheduling and frankly I'm tired of it...

CFB is the Meca for irrational, myopic fans.

 

[Rhode Irish]

...the whole thing means far too much for the fans down there...

ALSO, as a general rule for cfb fans across the board, if you don't win a title every four years and dominate year in and year out then you 'suck'... and if you don't play a top ten schedule (even if it's a top 20) then your schedule 'sucks'...

there is no middle ground/just being good... you either win BCS games or you suck... get top draft picks every other year or you're horrible...

same goes for the scheduling and frankly I'm tired of it...

CFB is the Meca for irrational, myopic fans.

Truth.

 

[CarrollVermin]

The thing about the SEC fanboys is they tend to try and sell this idea that five of the hardest six schedules every single year come out of the SEC... and that is not even close to being true... It is not a case of them refusing to play out of the south b/c the schedule is too hard already, It is a case of they are scared shitless across the board to lose a big game b/c the whole thing means far too much for the fans down there... ZERO margin for error... that's also why rules don't apply in the SEC... rules and competitive balance go out the window real quick when 50k plus jobs are on the line every year... scheduling D2 teams in November when you're a title contender??? Only reason they do that is b/c they can not afford to lose games in contrast to other areas/conferences... period.

ALSO, as a general rule for cfb fans across the board, if you don't win a title every four years and dominate year in and year out then you 'suck'... and if you don't play a top ten schedule (even if it's a top 20) then your schedule 'sucks'...

there is no middle ground/just being good... you either win BCS games or you suck... get top draft picks every other year or you're horrible...

same goes for the scheduling and frankly I'm tired of it...

CFB is the Meca for irrational, myopic fans.

You mean playing Georgia Southern in November is a no-no?

 

[NDbrbkny]

Why do you say navy is easy? they are not at the fact they beat us 2 times in the last 3 years?

 

[Kak7304]

Why do you say navy is easy? they are not at the fact they beat us 2 times in the last 3 years?

They've also recently taken a highly ranked OSU team down to the wire. Navy is not an elite team, but they are by no means an easy team to play for not only us, but also for every other team out there.

 

[Who'saWildManNow]

Why do you say navy is easy? they are not at the fact they beat us 2 times in the last 3 years?

They've also recently taken a highly ranked OSU team down to the wire. Navy is not an elite team, but they are by no means an easy team to play for not only us, but also for every other team out there.

It's things like Georgia Southern holding them to 13 points and having them hang 35 on us. It's frustrating. They can be a tough team when they play up.. and EVERYONE plays up against ND.

 

[BGIF]

Don't forget, Alabama lost 2 years in a row to UL Monroe, which is why Alabama doesn't want to play them anymore, ...

Wrong! Alabama did NOT lose 2 years in a row to UL Monroe. Bama beat them by 5 TDs in '06. ULM won by a TD in '07.


You post more misinformation on this board than anyone else.