[NBA] vBook: Cavaliers vs Celtics

[Irish#1]

I don't know if James is the best ever, but he's probably in the top two. I will say that he beat a team (Celtics) with less talent and experience than the Cavs. You could tell the Celts showed their youth and lack of experience in game 7. No consistency in the offense and too many hurried shots.

I don't see the Cavs beating the Warriors.

 

[FightingIrishLover7]

No, but they're far from bad. If you take out 2 star players (one being the greatest in the world) are are left with:

George Hill, who's capable of averaging 17 PPG (he did last year).
Larry Nance Jr, who's an 8 PPG, 7 boards, and a lot of contested shots.
Tristan Thompson who's in his prime and gets a double double anytime you start him.
Kyle Korver, who's a top 10 3pt shooter of all time
Jeff Green who's capable of getting 20 on a given night.
And Jordan Clarkson who averaged just under 15 PPG last year.

You have one hell of a roster, no matter how many excuses the media makes up about how "bad their roster is".

That roster is horrible lol. Not even close to playoff team. Lollll

 

[koonja]

That roster is horrible lol. Not even close to playoff team. Lollll

If you have 2 superstars and take them off, and are left with the above, 95% of NBA teams would take that.

You can add as many "Ls" to your LOL as you want, but a NBA GM would absolutely take that roster after 2 stars are removed.

 

[Ndaccountant]

No, but they're far from bad. If you take out 2 star players (one being the greatest in the world) are are left with:

George Hill, who's capable of averaging 17 PPG (he did last year).
Larry Nance Jr, who's an 8 PPG, 7 boards, and a lot of contested shots.
Tristan Thompson who's in his prime and gets a double double anytime you start him.
Kyle Korver, who's a top 10 3pt shooter of all time
Jeff Green who's capable of getting 20 on a given night.
And Jordan Clarkson who averaged just under 15 PPG last year.

You have one hell of a roster, no matter how many excuses the media makes up about how "bad their roster is".

TT - 2016/17 starts - 78, double doubles - 19. 2017/2018 starts - 22, double doubles - 3

Korver - 36 years old and is a huge liability on defense. The guy you keep pumping up was ranked 32nd in 3 pointers made per game in 2017/18. His 3pt shooting barely outweighs his defense.

Jeff Green is so valuable that he got a min contract from Cleveland and is on his 5th team in 4 years.

Nance is a good player that is getting better, but there are many Nance's in the NBA. Hardly noteworthy.

Hill and Clarkson are both PG's, so having them both in the mention is odd. But in terms of PG's in the NBA....there were more than 15 who averaged 15 points per game. So, agree, they are not relatively bad, but they are not relatively good either.

hardly "hell of a roster"

 

[koonja]

TT - 2016/17 starts - 78, double doubles - 19. 2017/2018 starts - 22, double doubles - 3

Korver - 36 years old and is a huge liability on defense. The guy you keep pumping up was ranked 32nd in 3 pointers per game in 2017/18. His 3pt shooting barely outweighs his defense.

Jeff Green is so valuable that he got a min contract from Cleveland and is on his 5th team in 4 years.

Nance is a good player that is getting better, but there are many Nance's in the NBA. Hardly noteworthy.

Hill and Clarkson are both PG's, so having them both in the mention is odd. But in terms of PG's in the NBA....there were more than 15 who averaged 15 points per game. So, agree, they are not relatively bad, but they are not relatively good either.

Let's play a game...

Any NBA teams that have 2 stars, take them out and tell me how that remaining roster is better than Cleveland's. Here are the teams I'd consider having 2 legitimate stars (this list is open to debate, so feel free):

Rockets (no Harden or CP3) --- Push
Warriors (No Durant or Curry) --- Warriors
Toronto (No Kevin Lowry or Demar Derozan) --- CAVS
Celtics (No Kyrie or Hayward) --- Celtics
76ers (No Embid or Simmons) --- CAVS
Milwaukee Bucks (No Gianis or Eric Bledsoe) --- CAVS
Washington Wizards (No Wall or Beal) --- CAVS
Portland (No Lilliard or CJ Mccullen) --- CAVS
Oklahoma City (take out Westbrook and PG13) --- CAVS
Jazz (take out Mitchell and Gobert) --- CAVS
Spurs (take out Kwahi and Aldridge) --- Spurs
Pelicans (take out Anthony Davis and Cousins) --- CAVS
Timberwolves (take out KAT and Jimmy Butler) --- Timberwolves




Teams that don't even have a 2nd star:
Pacers
Miami Heat
Nets
Bulls
Knicks
Hawks
Magic
Pistons
Hornets
Nuggets
Lakers
Sacramento
Grizzlys
Suns

 

[koonja]

TT - 2016/17 starts - 78, double doubles - 19. 2017/2018 starts - 22, double doubles - 3

Korver - 36 years old and is a huge liability on defense. The guy you keep pumping up was ranked 32nd in 3 pointers made per game in 2017/18. His 3pt shooting barely outweighs his defense.

Jeff Green is so valuable that he got a min contract from Cleveland and is on his 5th team in 4 years.

Nance is a good player that is getting better, but there are many Nance's in the NBA. Hardly noteworthy.

Hill and Clarkson are both PG's, so having them both in the mention is odd. But in terms of PG's in the NBA....there were more than 15 who averaged 15 points per game. So, agree, they are not relatively bad, but they are not relatively good either.

hardly "hell of a roster"

Ironic a "stats guy" would not look at the "per 36" for Tristan Thompson, who has average a double double every single year but 1.

The comment on Korver shows you don't know what you're talking about. He's underrated defensively and the broadcasters talk about that all of the time. He shut down Jaylen Brown multiple times in that series, and never requires someone come double to help him.

Good deals happen all of the time for teams trying to add a veteran to win. What's your point? He just had 20 in a game 7 on the road.

Bigs that can move and defend, and grab 9 and 9 in limited minutes? He's a good piece to have on a team like this.

If they're your 4th-6th best players, that's a good roster.

 

[FightingIrishLover7]

LeBron's best (feasible) bet to win is to join Pacers. The depth and youth of that squad with him would be amazing. They outplayed the Cavs (sans Bron) bigly.

 

[koonja]

LeBron's best (feasible) bet to win is to join Pacers. The depth and youth of that squad with him would be amazing. They outplayed the Cavs (sans Bron) bigly.

That'd be a great basketball decision, and that team is in need of a closer. It'd be perfect. But I don't think Lebron would go to Indiana. Not a fun enough market.

 

[Irish#1]

That'd be a great basketball decision, and that team is in need of a closer. It'd be perfect. But I don't think Lebron would go to Indiana. Not a fun enough market.

Not fun enough in terms of what, the beach? If fun you mean support, the Pacers fans have supported this team going back to its origination in the ABA and when they held the telethon in order to join the NBA. If by fun market you mean being one of the few large markets like LA, Chicago and NY, hard to argue. The Pacers need a compliment to Olidepo. If they get that, they will be in the mix in the east with Boston and Philly.

 

[koonja]

Not fun enough in terms of what, the beach? If fun you mean support, the Pacers fans have supported this team going back to its origination in the ABA and when they held the telethon in order to join the NBA. If by fun market you mean being one of the few large markets like LA, Chicago and NY, hard to argue. The Pacers need a compliment to Olidepo. If they get that, they will be in the mix in the east with Boston and Philly.

I agree with most of what you say, but I don't think Indiana is "sexy enough" for Lebron to go there.

I like Olidepo a lot, and Reggie Miller is my favorite player of all time. They have great fans too.

 

[Ndaccountant]

Let's play a game...

Any NBA teams that have 2 stars, take them out and tell me how that remaining roster is better than Cleveland's. Here are the teams I'd consider having 2 legitimate stars (this list is open to debate, so feel free):

Rockets (no Harden or CP3) --- Push -
Warriors (No Durant or Curry) --- Warriors
Toronto (No Kevin Lowry or Demar Derozan) --- CAVS
Celtics (No Kyrie or Hayward) --- Celtics
76ers (No Embid or Simmons) --- CAVS
Milwaukee Bucks (No Gianis or Eric Bledsoe) --- CAVS
Washington Wizards (No Wall or Beal) --- CAVS
Portland (No Lilliard or CJ Mccullen) --- CAVS
Oklahoma City (take out Westbrook and PG13) --- CAVS
Jazz (take out Mitchell and Gobert) --- CAVS
Spurs (take out Kwahi and Aldridge) --- Spurs
Pelicans (take out Anthony Davis and Cousins) --- CAVS
Timberwolves (take out KAT and Jimmy Butler) --- Timberwolves




Teams that don't even have a 2nd star:
Pacers
Miami Heat
Nets
Bulls
Knicks
Hawks
Magic
Pistons
Hornets
Nuggets
Lakers
Sacramento
Grizzlys
Suns

At this point, you need some way to quantify, so I am using value over replacement, for guys that averaged over 20 minutes per game, eliminating the top 2 for each team to account for the "stars". Pretty clear that James, KD, Harden all bring value, so this is the measure the rest of the team, the significant roll players.

Clev - 2.9

Atlanta - 2.5 - Worse
Boston - 5.5 - Better
Nets - 4.5 - Better
Bulls - 1.4 - Worse
Charl - 4.9 - Better
Dal - 2.1 - Worse
Denver - 4.3 - Better
Det - 2.2 - Worse
GSW - 4.8 - Better
Houston - 7.9 - Better
Indiana - 5.5 - Better
Clips - 2.0 - Worse
Lakers - 4.3 - Better
Memphis - (2.1) - Worse
Miami - 5.6 - Better
Bucks - 1.5 - Worse
Minny - 3.1 - Better
NOP - 5.1 - Better
Knicks - 0.8 - Worse
OKC - 3.7 - Better
Orlando - 1.5 - Worse
Philly - 5.6 - Better
Suns - (2.6) - Worse
Portland - 4.9 - Better
Kings - (1.2) - Worse
Spurs - 7.2 - Better
Raptors - 6.9 - Better
Jazz - 7.5 - Better
Wash - 4.8 - Better

That is 11 teams worse than Cleveland, 18 that are better.

Of the teams you singled out above, stats say all but one are better.

Rockets (no Harden or CP3) --- Rockets
Warriors (No Durant or Curry) --- Warriors
Toronto (No Kevin Lowry or Demar Derozan) --- Toronto
Celtics (No Kyrie or Hayward) --- Celtics
76ers (No Embid or Simmons) --- 76ers
Milwaukee Bucks (No Gianis or Eric Bledsoe) --- CAVS
Washington Wizards (No Wall or Beal) --- Wash
Portland (No Lilliard or CJ Mccullen) --- Port
Oklahoma City (take out Westbrook and PG13) --- OKC
Jazz (take out Mitchell and Gobert) --- Jazz
Spurs (take out Kwahi and Aldridge) --- Spurs
Pelicans (take out Anthony Davis and Cousins) --- NOP
Timberwolves (take out KAT and Jimmy Butler) --- Timberwolves

 

[Ndaccountant]

Ironic a "stats guy" would not look at the "per 36" for Tristan Thompson, who has average a double double every single year but 1.

The comment on Korver shows you don't know what you're talking about. He's underrated defensively and the broadcasters talk about that all of the time. He shut down Jaylen Brown multiple times in that series, and never requires someone come double to help him.

Good deals happen all of the time for teams trying to add a veteran to win. What's your point? He just had 20 in a game 7 on the road.

Bigs that can move and defend, and grab 9 and 9 in limited minutes? He's a good piece to have on a team like this.

If they're your 4th-6th best players, that's a good roster.

LOL.

You are the one that said

Tristan Thompson who's in his prime and gets a double double anytime you start him.

If you want to move the goalposts, fine. But if you do that, there were literally over 70 players that averaged 10 pts / 10 boards per 36, so over two per team on average. Again, hardly significant compared to rest of the NBA.

Korver's defensive +/- put him at 431 in the league, indicating he gives up more than 2 pts per game more than the average player. Offensively, he is 2.2 pts better. Guess you missed the joke they had about being blocked by Korver twice in a game. Brown not capitalizing isn't the same as Korver being good and Korver fouled at an alarming pace.

So Jeff Green has two good games and now he is more than just a meh player? Did you watch the Indiana series?

 

[koonja]

LOL.

You are the one that said


If you want to move the goalposts, fine. But if you do that, there were literally over 70 players that averaged 10 pts / 10 boards per 36, so over two per team on average. Again, hardly significant compared to rest of the NBA.

Korver's defensive +/- put him at 431 in the league, indicating he gives up more than 2 pts per game more than the average player. Offensively, he is 2.2 pts better.

So Jeff Green has two good games and now he is more than just a meh player? Did you watch the Indiana series?

So on par with the rest of the league, hardly "bad". And I bet you many of those "70 double doubles" would be taken out once you account for the removal of "2 stars".

You rely way too much on stats, and not the game itself. Korver locked down Jaylen Brown when matched up with him, and without help. And it wasn't a one time fluke. He's constantly mentioned for playing really good defense, even though everyone assumes he's bad. Jaylen Brown is just the most recent example of a really athletic wing that couldn't score on Korver.

All he has to be is "good" relative to a ~7th or 8th player on the team. Is he that? Absolutely.

 

[Ndaccountant]

So on par with the rest of the league, hardly "bad". And I bet you many of those "70 double doubles" would be taken out once you account for the removal of "2 stars".

You rely way too much on stats, and not the game itself. Korver locked down Jaylen Brown when matched up with him, and without help. And it wasn't a one time fluke. He's constantly mentioned for playing really good defense, even though everyone assumes he's bad. Jaylen Brown is just the most recent example of a really athletic wing that couldn't score on Korver.

All he has to be is "good" relative to a ~7th or 8th player on the team. Is he that? Absolutely.

Nearly every single one of the 70 is PF and C. So being generous and saying every team has one PF or C as one of their stars, that still leaves one TT producer on every team. His scoring and rebounding is hardly unique.

Korver is ranked 497th in giving points per defensive possession. Not sure how anyone could window dress that. Last year, he allowed the players he defended to shoot 5% better than their average. Korver is not a good defender, Brown or not.

 

[ulukinatme]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">If the Cleveland Cavaliers win the 2018 NBA finals I’ll buy everyone who retweet’s this a jersey...</p>— Damarious Randall (@RandallTime) <a href="https://twitter.com/RandallTime/status/1001311828557824006?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">May 29, 2018</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Supposedly dude makes $1-2 million a year and he's already $7+ million in the hole if the Cavs find a way to win. Also, not a great way to endear yourself to Cleveland fans lol

 

[IrishSteelhead]

[NBA] vBook: Cavaliers vs Celtics

If the Cleveland Cavaliers win the 2018 NBA finals I’ll buy everyone who retweet’s this a jersey...— Damarious Randall (@RandallTime) May 29, 2018


Supposedly dude makes $1-2 million a year and he's already $7+ million in the hole if the Cavs find a way to win. Also, not a great way to endear yourself to Cleveland fans lol

He will buy these people a jersey around the same time those celebrities upset about the election move to Canada lol.

*koon should wrestle a bear if the Cavs win

 

[ulukinatme]

He will buy these people a jersey around the same time those celebrities upset about the election move to Canada lol.

*koon should wrestle a bear if the Cavs win

He swears that he'll follow through on his words, but he doesn't specify what jersey he'll give, so my guess is it's going to be something like 450,000 of these:

 

[Rocket89]

To your first point.... both teams played the majority of their games in the East, which is garbage. Put each of those East teams in the West and the majority of them don’t make the playoffs. Cavs would have a hard time making the playoffs in the West.

I know you already made this point. There's a huge gap between a conference not being as strong as the West and being "garbage." This point would have a lot more weight to it IF LeBron was on a superior team and they cruised through the conference.

A run down MJ, that’s because he was getting body slammed all through the 80s and early 90s. It’s hard to compare eras because you can’t touch anyone anymore and everyone runs their mouth and postures like they they are in grade school.

It's not like MJ played in the 50's and we don't have most of us who lived through the era or tons of video evidence. Was that era "tougher"? Maybe a little bit but today's game is much more difficult mentally, physically, with conditioning, etc. Anyone who isn't having their records chase down seems to agree.

https://twitter.com/sp0rtstalkjo3/status/979078903498145792?lang=en

Pretty funny Twitter thread, but even if not 100% serious MJ played against some absolute scrubs that wouldn't stand a chance in today's NBA.

Plus, the era comparison thing is suddenly getting 'harder' to make precisely because LeBron's insane longevity is chipping away at MJ's legacy. Weird! It's not that MJ should've taken far better care of his body or got more sleep instead of gambling into the night. He was exhausted at 33 after 13 seasons because he basically participated in the WWE!

And this might not be knock on LBJ the player but LBJ is responsible for this team. He picks the coach and I am sure he signs off on every deal. Me Kardashian and RJ Brick are on this team because LBJ wants them on this team. If his supporting cast sucks that’s his fault. If and when LBJ leaves it’s a lock he won’t go to the West. He’s better to stay with the Cavs so his next title run is set in stone.

LeBron brought Cleveland its only city title in over 50 years against the greatest regular season team of all-time. If he's the GM things haven't gone that poorly. They really got screwed by the Kyrie trade, which in hindsight, looks bad but that wasn't the consensus at the time.

I actually think moving to the West is a smarter decision for him.

 

[ulukinatme]

I know you already made this point. There's a huge gap between a conference not being as strong as the West and being "garbage." This point would have a lot more weight to it IF LeBron was on a superior team and they cruised through the conference.



It's not like MJ played in the 50's and we don't have most of us who lived through the era or tons of video evidence. Was that era "tougher"? Maybe a little bit but today's game is much more difficult mentally, physically, with conditioning, etc. Anyone who isn't having their records chase down seems to agree.

https://twitter.com/sp0rtstalkjo3/status/979078903498145792?lang=en

Pretty funny Twitter thread, but even if not 100% serious MJ played against some absolute scrubs that wouldn't stand a chance in today's NBA.

Plus, the era comparison thing is suddenly getting 'harder' to make precisely because LeBron's insane longevity is chipping away at MJ's legacy. Weird! It's not that MJ should've taken far better care of his body or got more sleep instead of gambling into the night. He was exhausted at 33 after 13 seasons because he basically participated in the WWE!



LeBron brought Cleveland its only city title in over 50 years against the greatest regular season team of all-time. If he's the GM things haven't gone that poorly. They really got screwed by the Kyrie trade, which in hindsight, looks bad but that wasn't the consensus at the time.

I actually think moving to the West is a smarter decision for him.

Holy shit, the video clips he has in the responses are gold! I was a big fan of Jordan growing up, and I agree that he's probably still the best of all time, but people think Jordan was always going against some monster teams. The video evidence suggests otherwise. Lets not forget that he played with a cast that had 2 Hall of Famers and a handful of guys like Kerr that could end up in the HoF. Jordan was awesome, but top to bottom I would argue the NBA is more talented now than it was 20-30 years ago. The competition Lebron has faced has been better overall, which is part of the reason I think it's hard to compare the two. The sheer number of white guys in those old clips should say it all!

 

[greyhammer90]

Holy shit, the video clips he has in the responses are gold! I was a big fan of Jordan growing up, and I agree that he's probably still the best of all time, but people think Jordan was always going against some monster teams. The video evidence suggests otherwise. Lets not forget that he played with a cast that had 2 Hall of Famers and a handful of guys like Kerr that could end up in the HoF. Jordan was awesome, but top to bottom I would argue the NBA is more talented now than it was 20-30 years ago. The competition Lebron has faced has been better overall, which is part of the reason I think it's hard to compare the two. The sheer number of white guys in those old clips should say it all!

There's also the difference in rules. People always bring up the hand check rule to say that Lebron wouldn't be as good in the 90s but they never talk about the fact that zone defenses were illegal during MJ's era. Defenses were required to play one on one, or commit hard to a double team and leave a man completely open. This meant a team could draw an iso with EMPTY PAINT anytime they wanted by evacuating the middle. The defensive players were required by rule to follow their assignments.

Hand checks or not, who tf is guarding Lebron one on one for 42 minutes a night with empty paint? To quote Shaq: "That's Barbeque chicken." James would've been even more of a monster in the 90s.

 

[Rocket89]

Holy shit, the video clips he has in the responses are gold! I was a big fan of Jordan growing up, and I agree that he's probably still the best of all time, but people think Jordan was always going against some monster teams. The video evidence suggests otherwise. Lets not forget that he played with a cast that had 2 Hall of Famers and a handful of guys like Kerr that could end up in the HoF. Jordan was awesome, but top to bottom I would argue the NBA is more talented now than it was 20-30 years ago. The competition Lebron has faced has been better overall, which is part of the reason I think it's hard to compare the two. The sheer number of white guys in those old clips should say it all!

I still think Jordan is No. 1 but it's getting really, really close.

I think a case could be made that the top 90's teams generally had stronger 7-man rotations. But, the bottom of the rosters were pretty terrible back then and there were a whole lot of 4 through 8 seeds with really poor talent. Looking back at the Bulls 72-win season and it's laughable trying to put together the Top 10 players in Chicago's division that year.

 

[Crazy Balki]

I still think Jordan is No. 1 but it's getting really, really close.

I think a case could be made that the top 90's teams generally had stronger 7-man rotations. But, the bottom of the rosters were pretty terrible back then and there were a whole lot of 4 through 8 seeds with really poor talent. Looking back at the Bulls 72-win season and it's laughable trying to put together the Top 10 players in Chicago's division that year.

I don't think it's that close. LeBron has the edge on Jordan in terms of rebounds and assists, but Jordan has him in just about everything else.

LeBron is just under 1,300 points behind Jordan in terms of total scoring. So he'll likely surpass Jordan in 2018-19. The issue is that LeBron will be in his 16th season of league play. Jordan accumulated those numbers in 13 full seasons. Two of which were when he came out of retirement again to play for the Wizards at 39 years old.

LeBron also holds a slight edge in his FG percentage, but again, this is deceptive, because:

A) LeBron drives more than Jordan did and takes higher pct. shots.
B) Jordan's last two years in Washington were his two worst shooting years.

If you take out the two seasons in which Jordan came out of retirement and was noticeably not the same player as before, he shot 50.9% from the field compared to LeBron's 50.4%.

 

[greyhammer90]

I don't think it's that close. LeBron has the edge on Jordan in terms of rebounds and assists, but Jordan has him in just about everything else.

LeBron is just under 1,300 points behind Jordan in terms of total scoring. So he'll likely surpass Jordan in 2018-19. The issue is that LeBron will be in his 16th season of league play. Jordan accumulated those numbers in 13 full seasons. Two of which were when he came out of retirement again to play for the Wizards at 39 years old.

"We should blame Lebron for Michael's multiple early retirements and that he wasn't in shape in Washington." This is a classic argument that I'll never understand. I don't think anyone has ever argued against longevity as a positive trait like MJ cultists.

LeBron also holds a slight edge in his FG percentage, but again, this is deceptive, because:

A) LeBron drives more than Jordan did and takes higher pct. shots.
B) Jordan's last two years in Washington were his two worst shooting years.

If you take out the two seasons in which Jordan came out of retirement and was noticeably not the same player as before, he shot 50.9% from the field compared to LeBron's 50.4%.

"We shouldn't give credit to Lebron for having a higher FG percentage than MJ because Lebron takes higher percentage shots and because we shouldn't count Michael's bad shooting years because he shot badly then."

 

[zelezo vlk]

The thing is that MJ did have longevity. Lebron has more years, but so did Kareem. Lebron is fairly comfortably #2 and what's wrong with that? He doesn't have the Finals résumé that Jordan does though, that's without question.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk

 

[Rocket89]

I don't think it's that close. LeBron has the edge on Jordan in terms of rebounds and assists, but Jordan has him in just about everything else.

LeBron is just under 1,300 points behind Jordan in terms of total scoring. So he'll likely surpass Jordan in 2018-19. The issue is that LeBron will be in his 16th season of league play. Jordan accumulated those numbers in 13 full seasons. Two of which were when he came out of retirement again to play for the Wizards at 39 years old.

LeBron also holds a slight edge in his FG percentage, but again, this is deceptive, because:

A) LeBron drives more than Jordan did and takes higher pct. shots.
B) Jordan's last two years in Washington were his two worst shooting years.

If you take out the two seasons in which Jordan came out of retirement and was noticeably not the same player as before, he shot 50.9% from the field compared to LeBron's 50.4%.

Any way you slice it, it's plenty close. LeBron leads in plenty of traditional stats over Jordan in addition to:

Win shares, true shooting percentage, effective field goal percentage, offensive win shares, defensive win shares, win shares, box plus/minus, offensive box plus/minus, defensive box plus/minus, and value over replacement.

No question Jordan was a great, and maybe the greatest, scorer.

 

[ulukinatme]

He doesn't have the Finals résumé that Jordan does though, that's without question.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">This is who MJ was playing IN THE FINALS!!! THEY HAD A GODDAMN JUNIOR COLLEGE CHESS PLAYER TRYING TO GUARD HIM. <a href="https://t.co/ulGgDVragb">pic.twitter.com/ulGgDVragb</a></p>— Drizzy (@Sp0rtsTalkJo3) <a href="https://twitter.com/Sp0rtsTalkJo3/status/979094355184058369?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">March 28, 2018</a></blockquote>
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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">These are the defenses that you MJ stans say LeBron couldn’t survive against?<br><br>LMFAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOK <a href="https://t.co/K5F5L1mJV1">pic.twitter.com/K5F5L1mJV1</a></p>— Drizzy (@Sp0rtsTalkJo3) <a href="https://twitter.com/Sp0rtsTalkJo3/status/979095190307856386?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">March 28, 2018</a></blockquote>
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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">There’s more skinny white guys in this GIF than there are at a Kenny Chesney concert. <a href="https://t.co/WnrJcMi8Z3">pic.twitter.com/WnrJcMi8Z3</a></p>— Drizzy (@Sp0rtsTalkJo3) <a href="https://twitter.com/Sp0rtsTalkJo3/status/979097406573858816?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">March 28, 2018</a></blockquote>
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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">LeBron in the NBA Finals: guarded by Andre Iguodala, Kawhi Leonard, Bruce Bowen, Draymond Green<br><br>Michael Jordan in the NBA Finals: guarded by a C-SPAN anchors <a href="https://t.co/owBVLZIzEU">pic.twitter.com/owBVLZIzEU</a></p>— Drizzy (@Sp0rtsTalkJo3) <a href="https://twitter.com/Sp0rtsTalkJo3/status/979111137458446337?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">March 28, 2018</a></blockquote>
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[stlnd01]

Bill Russell, people. Bill Russell.

 

[zelezo vlk]

People trying to act line MJ wasn't guarded by The Glove smh. And his FINALS LEGACY isn't just the guy who guarded him. It's being 6/6 with 2 different 3 peats, separate dynasties, putting up crazy monster numbers, more Finals MVPs than anybody else (2nd is 3 behind him), oh and BTW he never ever went to Game 7.

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[IrishSteelhead]

[NBA] vBook: Cavaliers vs Celtics

I dont have much to add, other than:

-judging by stats alone is why years from now geeks will think Russell Westbrook was better than Magic, Dominique Wilkins better than Bird, etc.

-judging by titles alone is why years from now geeks will think human victory cigars like Bob Horry are HOFers, and actual solid /legit fringe HOFers like Chris Webber were a bust

-judging by impact alone is why years from now geeks will still revere big market players like Patrick Ewing, and ignore much better small market players like Tim Duncan

-judging by sizzle factor alone is why years from now geeks will think a team led by a volume scorer without any other skill or special attribute (Harden, Iverson, etc.) was top competition in the playoffs, which has been proven false time and again

 

[zelezo vlk]

If Y'all like nerds, go hang with Wiz in the Star Wars threads. The rest of us will be here

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