NBA Thread

[philipm31]

Word.

Seriously, it's odd how people like to throw terms around like "bitch move" for Durant joining a winning team that allowed him to elevate his game and play for championships consistently. He just won a title and MVP and shot 70% in the final game but he was a "sell out".

Same can be said for any graduating professional from a small state school who goes to join a big name firm/company. They should've stayed and built something but they sold out and took a bigger paycheck. And anyone who looks for the best opportunity for them is a sellout cuz #reasons.

Golden State built their team from the ground up and then acquired Durant because they both saw the value in the move. Now they'll continue dropping bombs on the NBA while critics whine about how unfair it is. KD earned that ring and that MVP by being the best player on the best team.

Everything else is noise.

This.

Also, not to be understated here is the Front Office. Their approach is what allowed them to build through the draft...just like SAS did, by and large, as well. And it is why they should be able to keep their core together for while longer, especially if KD is amenable to taking a pay cut to keep Stephen around, as he has said he would do.

When the highest paid player on your team does that, it can become contagious. Just look again to the Spurs. TWENTY YEARS of sustained excellence helped them in a smaller market become a perennial NBA title contender, just like they did in Oakland.

The West really is the harder of the two roads. I mean, the East is just LBJ TEAM and nobody (unless BOS does something for their future) vs. the Top 8 Western Teams, who all could take out just about any team in the East out. This is not an apples to apples comparison. And in the age free agency, what the GSW ORGANIZATION has done is phenomenal.

 

[philipm31]

If we want to be honest, the Lakers and Celtics were the first superteams, and I mean from the inception of the League. There have always been superteams. Now the Eighties likely had more than we do now, but the term is so disingenuous.

Also, isn't Green a member of the Flat Earth Society? #JustSaying

 

[greyhammer90]

Are the Sixers technically a super team now? Half joking. Fultz, Simmons, Embiid, Covington is one hell of a core of these guys grow into what's expected.

 

[IrishSteelhead]

Are the Sixers technically a super team now? Half joking. Fultz, Simmons, Embiid, Covington is one hell of a core of these guys grow into what's expected.

I wanna think that they are building something, but see them more as the 90's Mavs when they had Jimmy Jackson, Jamal Mashburn, and Jason Kidd.

*Embiid is the real deal if he can stay healthy, and Covington is solid when he decides to not play holding a sledgehammer and pick up 3 fouls in the first 6 minutes. If the other two live up to the hype, they MAY have something.

 

[IrishSteelhead]

NBA Thread

According to Woj at Yahoo, PG told the Pacers he plans to leave after the season and prefers the Lakers.


*UPDATE: Cavs and Pacers are in very early stages of trade talk to send him to Cleveland as a one year rental

 

[Irish#1]

If we want to be honest, the Lakers and Celtics were the first superteams, and I mean from the inception of the League. There have always been superteams. Now the Eighties likely had more than we do now, but the term is so disingenuous.

Also, isn't Green a member of the Flat Earth Society? #JustSaying

Here's the difference. Those prior "super teams" of the 70's - 90's were put together by the front office drafting and making an occasional trade. The moves today are pretty much orchestrated by the players

According to Woj at Yahoo, PG told the Pacers he plans to leave after the season and prefers the Lakers.


*UPDATE: Cavs and Pacers are in very early stages of trade talk to send him to Cleveland as a one year rental

Nice of PG to do that after saying he was a Pacer and wanted to finish his career here. I don't have a problem with him leaving. It's pretty much the norm today. What I have a problem with is him saying one thing and doing another. When it came to the draft, trades, etc., he wanted top be part of the discussions with the front, yet when it comes to announcing this, he has his agent call the Pacers. Put your big boy pants on PG.

If somehow Ball ends up on the Lakers and PG is there, it will be interesting to see how the dynamics work out with Ball's dad wanting to be involved in everything.

 

[IrishSteelhead]

Nice of PG to do that after saying he was a Pacer and wanted to finish his career here. I don't have a problem with him leaving. It's pretty much the norm today.

It is nice of him, but kind of screws them over from a trade value standpoint. The Lakers know he will walk to them, and they aren't competing this year, so they won't offer anything, and other teams won't give a good package for a one year hired gun.

*Seems like the Cavs think he can get them over the hump, so maybe trying to get Love, who has two years left, is their best bet.

 

[greyhammer90]

Seems like the Cavs think he can get them over the hump, so maybe trying to get Love, who has two years left, is their best bet.

This is interesting because the Cavs and Lebron probably have two different motivations.

If I'm the Cavs (the organization) there's no way I make that move. If Love is traded for George, and then George leaves after one year, then you have essentially given up a 20-10 guy just entering his prime for one year of Paul George. Not only that, but there is a real possibility that Lebron moves on to play/retire in LA after next year no matter what happens. I'd say that possibility goes up if Lebron thinks his only good teammate going forward is Kyrie. However, I'd also say Lebron's likelihood of leaving goes up if the front office ignores his requests and looks to play the long game. Either way, they're kind of stuck. This whole thing has the potential to kill the franchise for the foreseeable future.

If you're Lebron on the other hand (and this is assuming he plans on leaving Cleveland after next year), you don't care about anything except winning next year. If you think PG gives you better odds next year, you make that trade, because you'll be gone next year no matter what.

 

[Irish#1]

It is nice of him, but kind of screws them over from a trade value standpoint. The Lakers know he will walk to them, and they aren't competing this year, so they won't offer anything, and other teams won't give a good package for a one year hired gun.

*Seems like the Cavs think he can get them over the hump, so maybe trying to get Love, who has two years left, is their best bet.

That's about their only option at the moment.

This is interesting because the Cavs and Lebron probably have two different motivations.

If I'm the Cavs (the organization) there's no way I make that move. If Love is traded for George, and then George leaves after one year, then you have essentially given up a 20-10 guy just entering his prime for one year of Paul George. Not only that, but there is a real possibility that Lebron moves on to play/retire in LA after next year no matter what happens. I'd say that possibility goes up if Lebron thinks his only good teammate going forward is Kyrie. However, I'd also say Lebron's likelihood of leaving goes up if the front office ignores his requests and looks to play the long game. Either way, they're kind of stuck. This whole thing has the potential to kill the franchise for the foreseeable future.

If you're Lebron on the other hand (and this is assuming he plans on leaving Cleveland after next year), you don't care about anything except winning next year. If you think PG gives you better odds next year, you make that trade, because you'll be gone next year no matter what.

Cavs just may make the trade for PG knowing James is going to leave after next year as well. Get one more title before James leaves and the odds of winning a title go through the roof. PG is as good a outside shooter as Love, has better moves, quickness, etc. and is a much better defender than Love. His length and defense alone might be what the Cavs need to slow down GS.

 

[koonja]

Everyone's debating this from the Cavs' perspective. There has to be a better option for the Pacers than getting Love for 2 years, right?

 

[greyhammer90]

Cavs just may make the trade for PG knowing James is going to leave after next year as well. Get one more title before James leaves and the odds of winning a title go through the roof. PG is as good a outside shooter as Love, has better moves, quickness, etc. and is a much better defender than Love. His length and defense alone might be what the Cavs need to slow down GS.

Yeah after thinking it over I really don't know what else they can do. If they don't take George, the Cavs likely lose and Lebron leaving is almost a certainty. If they do take George, they might win, and then they have at least a chance to convince everyone to stay for the winning.

 

[koonja]

Everyone's debating this from the Cavs' perspective. There has to be a better option for the Pacers than getting Love for 2 years, right?

If you're a Pacer fan, getting Love for 2 years is a total buzz kill. I'd rather get a top 3 pick in a draft along with another piece.

 

[koonja]

If I'm the Pacers, I'd take the 3rd pick over Love. I guess the question is whether or not Boston would do that, but who knows.

https://hardwoodhoudini.com/2017/06/18/celtics-offer-paul-george/

 

[greyhammer90]

If you're a Pacer fan, getting Love for 2 years is a total buzz kill. I'd rather get a top 3 pick in a draft along with another piece.

The assumption is that no team is going to give lottery picks if PG has told everyone that he's going to LA when he's a free agent next year. LA won't because they are in rebuild mode so they'll just wait a year. No one else wants to give away anything unless they are in "win right now" mode. The only two teams realistically in that mode are Warriors and Cavs. Warriors have no reason to grab George because they're pretty settled with their core and likely aren't interested in trading any of their guys because they have great contracts. Cavs are really the only team to deal with. So you get Love for two years, you deal with another team for worse to spite the Cavs, or George leaves in a year and you get nothing.

 

[IrishSteelhead]

NBA Thread

If I'm the Pacers, I'd take the 3rd pick over Love. I guess the question is whether or not Boston would do that, but who knows.

https://hardwoodhoudini.com/2017/06/18/celtics-offer-paul-george/

Boston would jump all over that if they do a sign and trade. I'd take PG over Hayward any day, and Hayward is no slouch.

PG as a Celtic would definitely make the East more interesting, but they still wouldn't get past Cleveland. It would set the table for a run when/if Lebron leaves or starts to decline.

 

[koonja]

If the Cavs get PG, the East couldn't be more lopsided. They'd literally have the 3 best players in the conference.

 

[philipm31]

If Tristan Thompson continues his regression, having Love around for another 2 years is a lot more appetizing than PG because I do not think he is a better outside shooter OR rebounder than Love. Or passer.

But the one person that would have to be traded in order to get George is Love, even if he is not going to be as comfortable both on and off the block like Love. The only team that can handle Love consistently is the Warriors and how often do they play them in the East? Not often.

So if I were a CLE fan and scared that LBJ might leave, he still might leave if PG is gone after next year, anyway, even if they win the title. After all, if George leaves for LA, Love is no longer there, Thompson (who has the same agent as LBJ) keeps playing like crap, then the only viable person on the Cavs roster is Kyrie. LBJ is not staying to play with just Kyrie and ten nobodies.

CLE is in an unenviable spot, where George literally will have all the power. Same goes for Indiana, I guess...if they do the trade. If they hold onto George for the next season, do you think he stays in Indiana, considering they can offer a better contract than any team out there, even LA?

And I am a Lakers fan, frankly, so I would love to see him come to LA, considering how much cap space the Lakers have now. They could really rebuild quickly with him on the roster, BUT he is not a TOP 5 player, at all. So, the idea that they would be an elite team or building a contender around him is just not likely, in my opinion. George is not a superstar. He is a star. To me, there is a big difference.

 

[Rack Em]

Just to be clear, the NBA sucks and peaked with Malice at the Palace.

 

[Rogue219]

Is Danny Ainge maybe stockpiling picks and assets to go for Doncic in the 2018 Draft? Wouldn't put it past him.

 

[Irishnuke]

George really fucked the Pacers. I'm guessing it was him or his agent that made this public. Like you guys were saying, it's really trade him to Cleveland or get nothing when he leaves in free agency, unless some team thinks they're really close to competing with Cleveland or GS. Nobody is though. I don't see the Spurs bringing him in and I think Boston has all their eggs in the Gordon Hayward basket. I can't see them trading their pick for a one year rental either. Also shows that George doesn't give a shit about winning if he's ready to head to the Lakers.

 

[ulukinatme]

Yeah after thinking it over I really don't know what else they can do. If they don't take George, the Cavs likely lose and Lebron leaving is almost a certainty. If they do take George, they might win, and then they have at least a chance to convince everyone to stay for the winning.

I don't know if LeBron is leaving Cleveland again, not under the same circumstances as last time anyway. It sure seems like he's dug in there now, even more than before. He contributes a lot back to Akron. His foundation just started a new at risk-school in his hometown. He's getting paid in Cleveland right now, and he's playing for one of the best teams in the NBA that aren't named the Warriors. The only way I see him leaving Cleveland now without retiring is if they decide to no longer pay what he's worth, or they dismantle/trade the decent players around him.

 

[Irish#1]

If Tristan Thompson continues his regression, having Love around for another 2 years is a lot more appetizing than PG because I do not think he is a better outside shooter OR rebounder than Love. Or passer.

But the one person that would have to be traded in order to get George is Love, even if he is not going to be as comfortable both on and off the block like Love. The only team that can handle Love consistently is the Warriors and how often do they play them in the East? Not often.

So if I were a CLE fan and scared that LBJ might leave, he still might leave if PG is gone after next year, anyway, even if they win the title. After all, if George leaves for LA, Love is no longer there, Thompson (who has the same agent as LBJ) keeps playing like crap, then the only viable person on the Cavs roster is Kyrie. LBJ is not staying to play with just Kyrie and ten nobodies.

CLE is in an unenviable spot, where George literally will have all the power. Same goes for Indiana, I guess...if they do the trade. If they hold onto George for the next season, do you think he stays in Indiana, considering they can offer a better contract than any team out there, even LA?

And I am a Lakers fan, frankly, so I would love to see him come to LA, considering how much cap space the Lakers have now. They could really rebuild quickly with him on the roster, BUT he is not a TOP 5 player, at all. So, the idea that they would be an elite team or building a contender around him is just not likely, in my opinion. George is not a superstar. He is a star. To me, there is a big difference.

Pacers can offer him more than anyone else and he knows that, If he makes one of the three All NBA teams, Pacers can add an additional $25-$30M on top of that. That doesn't appear to matter given what he's said. At this time he has absolutely no trade value except maybe with Cleveland. He wants to go to LA so no one is going to touch a sign and trade unless they can find someone like Boston who's willing to trade a pick or two and is convinced that they can resign George after next year.

Boston appears to be the current leader for Hayward, but with this development, the Pacers might get into the mix. Given he's a local kid, he would be a big attraction and the Pacers would be a good spot. Of course he's old coach is sitting up in Boston making that an attractive destination.

 

[pumpdog20]

If this is all about chasing Golden State, Cleveland is going to need more than Paul George.

 

[Irish#1]

I don't know if LeBron is leaving Cleveland again, not under the same circumstances as last time anyway. It sure seems like he's dug in there now, even more than before. He contributes a lot back to Akron. His foundation just started a new at risk-school in his hometown. He's getting paid in Cleveland right now, and he's playing for one of the best teams in the NBA that aren't named the Warriors. The only way I see him leaving Cleveland now without retiring is if they decide to no longer pay what he's worth, or they dismantle/trade the decent players around him.

Except there seems to be a lot of talk about him heading to LA and he can keep his foundation and charity work. Manning is still heavily involved with his work in Indy. So, Cavs trade Love for PG. Cavs win title so the blow of James leaving is softened. James heads to LA with PG and tries to win a title with his third team in an attempt to overtake Jordan as the best player ever. Just spitballin'.

 

[philipm31]

I don't know if LeBron is leaving Cleveland again, not under the same circumstances as last time anyway. It sure seems like he's dug in there now, even more than before. He contributes a lot back to Akron. His foundation just started a new at risk-school in his hometown. He's getting paid in Cleveland right now, and he's playing for one of the best teams in the NBA that aren't named the Warriors. The only way I see him leaving Cleveland now without retiring is if they decide to no longer pay what he's worth, or they dismantle/trade the decent players around him.

If George only stays for a year, that is precisely what would happen, as Love and George would no longer be there and it would just be LBJ and Kyrie vs. everyone.

And all those great things that LBJ does for Akron and whatnot can be done from anywhere, not just Cleveland. I am sure that his foundation could be run just as efficiently from anywhere he plays. The Gasol Foundation that is run by both brothers Gasol, is not located in Memphis or San Antonio, but LA, and Pau has not played there in years and Marc never played for the team that drafted him, either.

 

[ulukinatme]

If this is all about chasing Golden State, Cleveland is going to need more than Paul George.

They've already got a star SF anyway, need to improve weaker positions first. If they were really going to pull a Golden State move they'd find a way to get someone like James Harden and replace JR Smith. Not gonna happen, but it would be a similar move. Might need to replace Tristan Thompson too.

 

[koonja]

If this is all about chasing Golden State, Cleveland is going to need more than Paul George.

They've already got a star SF anyway, need to improve weaker positions first. If they were really going to pull a Golden State move they'd find a way to get someone like James Harden and replace JR Smith. Not gonna happen, but it would be a similar move. Might need to replace Tristan Thompson too.

Anyone who thinks adding PG wouldn't give them a chance against GW is high.

 

[Irish#1]

Reports are now saying that the Clippers are interested in George. If he's telling the truth now about wanting to live in LA, then this should be an option. If he really wants the attention, he won't consider them.

Also being reported that Boston is interested in swapping draft picks this year and sending Avery Bradley and Jaylon Brown for George.

 

[irishfan]

Reports are now saying that the Clippers are interested in George. If he's telling the truth now about wanting to live in LA, then this should be an option. If he really wants the attention, he won't consider them.

Also being reported that Boston is interested in swapping draft picks this year and sending Avery Bradley and Jaylon Brown for George.

Mind sharing where you saw this? I'd be shocked. Not only is it a terrible deal (assuming it's not a sign-and-trade), but they've even reported here that Ainge isn't willing to deal anything of note for one season of George.

 

[zelezo vlk]

Mind sharing where you saw this? I'd be shocked. Not only is it a terrible deal (assuming it's not a sign-and-trade), but they've even reported here that Ainge isn't willing to deal anything of note for one season of George.

Yeah it makes no sense for both parties. The Pacers would want much more than that for George, but Ainge isn't trading for PG without assurances that he'd sign long-term.