Navy Post Game

[TheTurningPoint]

How is this even possible? How can a DI-level player possibly NOT buy into the scheme? I mean, it's not as if he was a proven stud who had a new DC come in and change everything up on him. This has been the scheme since he stepped foot on campus. What in the hell is going on here? And what happens next year when our "best option" graduates and our next man in still hasn't "bought in"? I dunno, something is off here. We're fucked if this is the reality of it.

High school football isn't college football. In high school, guys like Morgan can do anything they want and look good doing it. In college, they are asked to play within a scheme. Sometimes they are asked to contain, when they are used to attacking or sometimes they are put in spots they aren't comfortable with, so they go with what they are comfortable with.

 

[ThePiombino]

High school football isn't college football. In high school, guys like Morgan can do anything they want and look good doing it. In college, they are asked to play within a scheme. Sometimes they are asked to contain, when they are used to attacking or sometimes they are put in spots they aren't comfortable with, so they go with what they are comfortable with.

I get all that, I just don't get how a 2nd year player would still be having those same issues. I guess what I'm wondering is if this is going to be something Morgan can get over or not. If not, we are in trouble after this year.

 

[TheTurningPoint]

And another thing - how is a player "not buying into the scheme" any worse than a player who "buys into the scheme" but constantly gets exploited for his athletic insufficiency?

Not doing your assignment effects the other 10 players.

 

[T Town Tommy]

Joe is the guy I want to captain my HS team on defense. But he simply lacks that explosive ability to close in on an offensive player at the major D1 college ball level. And that's what separates good players from great players.

 

[kmoose]

How is this even possible? How can a DI-level player possibly NOT buy into the scheme? I mean, it's not as if he was a proven stud who had a new DC come in and change everything up on him. This has been the scheme since he stepped foot on campus. What in the hell is going on here? And what happens next year when our "best option" graduates and our next man in still hasn't "bought in"? I dunno, something is off here. We're fucked if this is the reality of it.

I can understand the frustration, but for an example of what catering to the athlete looks like:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/Bbw1xf8J6uE" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[Wingman Ray]

Remember when Joe's injury was the reason the D tanked late last season?

[Not saying he didn't play poorly, just stating a observation]

I blame this 100% on the coaching staff. Their job is to coach EVERYONE up, not one person and when he goes down, the boat sinks. Physically Joe is D2 talent. Not fast, not muscular, not athletic. The fact that he is on the field at all just shows what a piss poor coaching staff we have. How is it that every other team plays athletic guys and they know the scheme and yet we have to play flag football guys to make ours work? I thought ND players were smart? Guess not so much when they cant figure out how to run a football plan when every other team in America can on Saturday.

 

[T Town Tommy]

I blame this 100% on the coaching staff. Their job is to coach EVERYONE up, not one person and when he goes down, the boat sinks. Physically Joe is D2 talent. Not fast, not muscular, not athletic. The fact that he is on the field at all just shows what a piss poor coaching staff we have. How is it that every other team plays athletic guys and they know the scheme and yet we have to play flag football guys to make ours work? I thought ND players were smart? Guess not so much when they cant figure out how to run a football plan when every other team in America can on Saturday.

I disagree Ray. Nick Perry was not a great safety for my Tide last season. He was a great run stopper but could not cover. Always a half step late. But he started. Why? Because Bama has a sucky coaching staff? Hardly. He started because he knew the defense and he knew his responsibilities. He also got others lined up properly and made sure the other players in the secondary knew their reads. Joe is probably out there for the Irish for pretty much the same reasons all be it at a different defensive position.

 

[ThePiombino]

Not doing your assignment effects the other 10 players.

True. In your opinion - not the coaching staff, but your opinion - do you think the defense would suffer in the short term/long term if Morgan were to replace Schmidt?

I can understand the frustration, but for an example of what catering to the athlete looks like:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/Bbw1xf8J6uE" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

I hear ya, but are we sure this is the same situation? After all, Manziel did pretty good things for A&M playing backyard football.

 

[kmoose]

I hear ya, but are we sure this is the same situation? After all, Manziel did pretty good things for A&M playing backyard football.

No. I'm not sure it is the same situation. I was just speaking philosophically. But no matter what Manziel did for A&M on the field, I think the vast majority of ND people would agree that he would never have made it at ND, with his attitude. For starters; he would have immediately been suspended for the season, by the University, when the cash for autographs thing came up.

 

[ThePiombino]

No. I'm not sure it is the same situation. I was just speaking philosophically. But no matter what Manziel did for A&M on the field, I think the vast majority of ND people would agree that he would never have made it at ND, with his attitude. For starters; he would have immediately been suspended for the season, by the University, when the cash for autographs thing came up.

Without a doubt, but I think that's a whole different argument than what we're talking about with Morgan. I dunno what the hell Morgan's deal is, but I wish he would figure it out (who doesn't?!) - this linebacker corps could be DEADLY with him in there.

 

[Buster Bluth]

The fact that he is on the field at all just shows what a piss poor coaching staff we have.

They're not perfect, but this is just stupid.

 

[Te'o4Heisman]

So Joe is one of the worst defenders because his tackles come 6 yards downfield? How about the other 10 guys who not only did not make the play before the guy got 6 yards down the field, but didn't make the play once he DID get 6 yards down the field?



He's leading the team(tied with Day and Okwara) in sacks.



No, he shouldn't. Against a triple option team, your Mike is usually(not always, but usually) responsible for helping take away the fullback. The OLB/DE is usually responsible for forcing the pitch, and a safety or corner is generally responsible for the pitch man. Safeties, not Mike Linebackers, usually lead the team in tackles when playing a triple option team.



The fact is that the fan asked a question. I was matter of fact about my initial answer, and then HE got aggressive with ME... "predictable answer from kmoose, 'if the coaches made the decision you can't question it". I then responded in kind. But koon always does this....... he plays passive aggressive and then whines about being picked on and persecuted. You aren't the first "White Knight" to stick up for him, and you probably won't be the last. But you will realize, like all of the rest have done, that it's not everyone but koon..........

I'm not new around here dude..know exactly what goes on, but it was your previous post that he responded to with the "predictable answer from Kmoose" that began getting aggressive. Completely condescending.

And Schmidt is a big part of what is wrong with this defense right now, sorry you don't see that but I dont want my Mike who is supposed to be beating blocks and making plays at the point of attack consistently missing tackles, not getting to the spot in time to even attempt the tackle, or getting caught up in the wash and making tackles 6 yards down field. If you think that's OK I'm glad you're not our D coordinator, you'd be worse than BVG.

 

[koonja]

So Joe is one of the worst defenders because his tackles come 6 yards downfield? How about the other 10 guys who not only did not make the play before the guy got 6 yards down the field, but didn't make the play once he DID get 6 yards down the field?



He's leading the team(tied with Day and Okwara) in sacks.



No, he shouldn't. Against a triple option team, your Mike is usually(not always, but usually) responsible for helping take away the fullback. The OLB/DE is usually responsible for forcing the pitch, and a safety or corner is generally responsible for the pitch man. Safeties, not Mike Linebackers, usually lead the team in tackles when playing a triple option team.



The fact is that the fan asked a question. I was matter of fact about my initial answer, and then HE got aggressive with ME... "predictable answer from kmoose, 'if the coaches made the decision you can't question it". I then responded in kind. But koon always does this....... he plays passive aggressive and then whines about being picked on and persecuted. You aren't the first "White Knight" to stick up for him, and you probably won't be the last. But you will realize, like all of the rest have done, that it's not everyone but koon..........

Kmoose, everyone on here is aware that you try to start shit with me whenever you can. This isn't the first time you've told me to 'shut the fuck up' for no reason. Spare us, nobody's buying it anymore. So just stop the trolling and stay on topic or don't post on this thread.

 

[MJ12666]

I disagree Ray. Nick Perry was not a great safety for my Tide last season. He was a great run stopper but could not cover. Always a half step late. But he started. Why? Because Bama has a sucky coaching staff? Hardly. He started because he knew the defense and he knew his responsibilities. He also got others lined up properly and made sure the other players in the secondary knew their reads. Joe is probably out there for the Irish for pretty much the same reasons all be it at a different defensive position.

I don't think this is a valid argument. It is not unusual for safeties who are good tacklers who are not good in coverage. If they could cover they would probably be a CB. Now if it looked like Joe was actually making defensive calls I could understand why he might be playing, but as was previously pointed out there is no indication of any shifting taking place on the D-line or linebackers that is consistently initiated by Joe; and I have never seen him looking back to make sure the secondary was properly positioned. I have a feeling that the coaching staff has built Joe up to something he is not but it has now put them in a position that they cannot replace him.

 

[GoIrish41]

You forgot C) The sheep pictures; as far as the real reason, there is a bit of a phenomena with Kelly, and I assume his assistants. They are loyal to their guys, to a fault! How many times this year has the next man in either outperformed the previous starter out of the blocks, or been noticeably superior to the previous starter at similar points early in their careers?

The talent level on this team, as well as the attitude are rising rapidly. That makes for a lot of change. The only thing I can think of, (and I am not sure I believe it), is that the staff is trying to provide some stability, and continuity.

And leadership. In a Kelly system the guy with true leadership plays over the guy with talent, every time, often until it is too late!

As far as the rest, I could give a good goddamned as to whether a player is good or not. Or who is the most talented player. It is all about making the team better. Usually Kelly is pretty good at that. But he does have a few blind spots, and this whole subject seems to gravitate around one of them!

This. A whole lot of this. We saw it with Cam last season. We saw it with Golson. Every time we have seen Morgan play (which, I would argue are far too infrequent) he has been a noticeably better option than the guy he replaced. He is far more physically gifted player than Schmidt. I could make the same argument for Grace. The staff is clearly being stubborn in keeping Schmidt on the field. Anyone who watches ND football can see it. I like that you describe it as "loyalty" but I look at it from another perspective. What about the coach's loyalty to the rest of the team if Joe's physical limitations cost us a game? It's like Joe was BK's project and he is forcing us all to watch his ego play itself out.

 

[ickythump1225]

This. A whole lot of this. We saw it with Cam last season. We saw it with Golson. Every time we have seen Motgan play (which, I would argue are far too infrequent) he has been a noticeably better option than the guy he replaced. He is far more physically gifted player than Schmidt. I could make the same argument for Grace. The staff is clearly being stubborn in keeping Schmidt on the field. Anyone who watches ND football can see it. I like that you describe it as "loyalty" but I look at it from another perspective. What about the coach's loyalty the the rest of the team if Joe's physical limitations cost us a game? It's like Joe was BK's project and he is forcing us all to watch his ego play itself out.

This is an issue of mine with BK. He is loyal to a fault to players who just don't need to be out there. Cam and Joe are classic examples of this. They both are gritty players, who seem like outstanding guys, but they aren't starters and they don't deserve as much playing time as they get from Kelly.

 

[kmoose]

[/B]

I'm not new around here dude..know exactly what goes on, but it was your previous post that he responded to with the "predictable answer from Kmoose" that began getting aggressive. Completely condescending.

Whatever you say.................





dude.

 

[IrishinSyria]

This is an issue of mine with BK. He is loyal to a fault to players who just don't need to be out there. Cam and Joe are classic examples of this. They both are gritty players, who seem like outstanding guys, but they aren't starters and they don't deserve as much playing time as they get from Kelly.

This is crazy, but I can't shake the feeling that Kelly (and some NF fans) sees something of himself in scrappy white guys (tommy, collinsworth, cam, joe) and as a result overestimates their intangible qualities.

 

[Irish Insanity]

This is an issue of mine with BK. He is loyal to a fault to players who just don't need to be out there. Cam and Joe are classic examples of this. They both are gritty players, who seem like outstanding guys, but they aren't starters and they don't deserve as much playing time as they get from Kelly.

Him and Bill Belichick are friends. I mean Welker, Edelman, Woodhead

 

[koonja]

IDK how BK can be racist when he himself is purple.

 

[wizards8507]

Him and Bill Belichick are friends. I mean Welker, Edelman, Woodhead

Don't forget Brady and Gronk. Those guys have been skating by on white privilege for years.

 

[kmoose]

This is an issue of mine with BK. He is loyal to a fault to players who just don't need to be out there. Cam and Joe are classic examples of this. They both are gritty players, who seem like outstanding guys, but they aren't starters and they don't deserve as much playing time as they get from Kelly.

I think you are misremembering Cam McDaniels' playing time. Cam only got 77 carries last year. He was the #2 tailback, and the #1 (Folston) got almost 100 carries more(175). Cam got some carries, yes, but he was the #2 TB, and it's not like Kelly was constantly feeding him the rock.

 

[ickythump1225]

I think you are misremembering Cam McDaniels' playing time. Cam only got 77 carries last year. He was the #2 tailback, and the #1 (Folston) got almost 100 carries more(175). Cam got some carries, yes, but he was the #2 TB, and it's not like Kelly was constantly feeding him the rock.

But Cam got the ball in big moments and he was the one that Kelly trusted more and it showed.

 

[IrishinSyria]

I think you are misremembering Cam McDaniels' playing time. Cam only got 77 carries last year. He was the #2 tailback, and the #1 (Folston) got almost 100 carries more(175). Cam got some carries, yes, but he was the #2 TB, and it's not like Kelly was constantly feeding him the rock.

That was the problem. Bryant was clearly more talented than him (2 YPC more talented) and yet Cam got the rock more because... leadership?

2014 Notre Dame Fighting Irish Stats | College Football at Sports-Reference.com

 

[kmoose]

That was the problem. Bryant was clearly more talented than him (2 YPC more talented) and yet Cam got the rock more because... leadership?

2014 Notre Dame Fighting Irish Stats | College Football at Sports-Reference.com

Bryant was not CLEARLY more talented than Cam. The RB position is about more than just running the ball. And there's good reason to believe that Bryant is a bit of a head case, so that probably factored in as well.

 

[koonja]

That was the problem. Bryant was clearly more talented than him (2 YPC more talented) and yet Cam got the rock more because... ?

2014 Notre Dame Fighting Irish Stats | College Football at Sports-Reference.com

Bryant was not CLEARLY more talented than Cam. The RB position is about more than just running the ball. [[/B], so that probably factored in as well.

 

[kmoose]

FIFY.

FIFY.

Just stop, please.......

 

[GoIrish41]

FIFY.

FIFY.

Too far? Um, probably.

 

[gkIrish]

We've had a few players that suck in practice but just seem to turn it up during a real game. Let's see what Morgan does in a game. He hasn't even been given the chance. It's mind-boggling.

 

[philipm31]

Idk if it was just because I am jealous of michigan having Harbaugh, but I was pretty disappointed in general. I felt there was too much cute playcalling on offense against a team that we have a significant size and speed advantage against. The defense adjusted well in the second half, and I don't know what would have happened if they hadn't forced those turnovers. Fuller's hands are not good - I've said it before and he showed it again this game.

One last thing, I usually never complain about announcers, but I found it ridiculous that our supposedly unbiased announcer gave our opponent a motivational speech at their practice this week. Why the fuck can't we get an actually unbiased announcer? Why does it always have to be somebody from a rival school?

Because NBC has NEVER cared about the ND product in the booth, EVER.