More SEC arrests

[SoDakDomer]

Honestly this is why the SEC guys oversign every single year. They are insulating themselves against the natural attrition of injuries,acedemics, and trouble. So if something like this happens they aren't short 4 scholarship players. If this happens at a school that doesn't oversign they are already at 81 scholarship players before any spring and fall injuries can even occur. And if by some good fortune they aren't at 85 by summer they pull the ol grey shirt/medi/the boot card.

 

[MacadamianNut]

No. But he has the power to choose what type of individuals he wants to bring to Alabama. And obviously, when the kid has already displayed this type of behavior in high school, it is a reasonable assumption that it could happen again.

You obviously are missing the point entirely. How can you clean house when you recruit kids that display consistently bad behavior?

I'm trying to remain as objective as possible. We obviously have had a few incidents with Floyd, Tommy, etc. Although I believe it was a turning point for them, and they will both move on (and have) successfully in their lives.

I respect that you're being reasonable and civil, but there's one point that you bring up that I'm vaguely making myself. You bring up ND players and say that their incidents should hopefully be a turning point in their lives, so why can't they same be said for the Bama high school recruits (that aren't selling any drugs or physically hurting other people)?

 

[Bishop2b5]

And Saban welcomed him with open arms.

Liner's arrest was for jumping the fence at the city pool while he was in HS and going for a late night swim with friends. Does that really strike you as a serious offense or something that would make you not recruit him? Seriously??? 99% of us did a lot worse as kids.

 

[Bishop2b5]

Honestly this is why the SEC guys oversign every single year. They are insulating themselves against the natural attrition of injuries,acedemics, and trouble. So if something like this happens they aren't short 4 scholarship players. If this happens at a school that doesn't oversign they are already at 81 scholarship players before any spring and fall injuries can even occur. And if by some good fortune they aren't at 85 by summer they pull the ol grey shirt/medi/the boot card.

Oh good grief.

 

[Grahambo]

Liner's arrest was for jumping the fence at the city pool while he was in HS and going for a late night swim with friends. Does that really strike you as a serious offense or something that would make you not recruit him? Seriously??? 99% of us did a lot worse as kids.

Never said anything about a serious offense nor was I implying it. I really wasn't even talking about the 'crime' DL committed. I was referring more to the fact that Macadamian said he was an Auburn commit at the time. Regardless of the 'crime', since DL was brought up it shouldn't matter who he was a commit of at the time, he still ended up at 'Bama.

 

[WakeUpEchoes]

I respect that you're being reasonable and civil, but there's one point that you bring up that I'm vaguely making myself. You bring up ND players and say that their incidents should hopefully be a turning point in their lives, so why can't they same be said for the Bama high school recruits (that aren't selling any drugs or physically hurting other people)?

I think the primary difference is that none of the players I listed from ND had previous accounts of bad behavior. Thus, there was no worry or anticipation of their actions from a recruiting standpoint. We saw their amazing grades and athletic ability, and made a judgment call that they fit the standard of a Notre Dame student athlete.

Recruiting a student that has had a history of criminal activity (whether it be felonies, misdemeanors, etc) is quite different. It questions, from an institutional standpoint, what your standards are as far as a student-athlete at your school.

To be fair, I don't think anything you and Bishop has said is out of line or without a reasonable basis.

 

[MacadamianNut]

Never said anything about a serious offense nor was I implying it.

So then what's the problem with "Saban welcoming him with open arms"

 

[woolybug25]

Wooly, I said John's arrest was a very serious felony. I also said that since the summer of '08 after Saban's first season when he got rid of all the riff-raff, there had been no felony arrests since until this incident this week.

Do you think Dee Liner jumping a fence while he was in HS to go swimming late at night is a serious offense? Why exaggerate what happened with Upshaw or just make up stuff? A girl who liked him got mad at him for talking to another girl at a party and slapped the bejeezus out of him. He instinctively shoved her. Didn't hit her. No injuries. No beating. No need to make up stuff to push an agenda either.

Disorderly conduct is a serious crime in your book? It's kids scuffling and shoving, getting into a loud argument in public, or not being 100% cooperative with the cops when they try to break it up. Castille got hit with disorderly conduct because he threatened to punch somebody who cursed at him from a passing car. Barron let someone who didn't have a license borrow his car and then lied to police to try to keep his friend out of trouble. These are not exactly major crimes. Why do you want to make any of this more than it is?

Yes, these are all serious crimes. You can talk up and down the specifics, but this isn't a courtroom. These were all serious matters and its disturbing that you believe things like domestic voilence, selling cocaine and DUI's arent serious. I simply can't fathom how someone can say those charges are just "kids being kids".

 

[yankeeND]

I respect that you're being reasonable and civil, but there's one point that you bring up that I'm vaguely making myself. You bring up ND players and say that their incidents should hopefully be a turning point in their lives, so why can't they same be said for the Bama high school recruits (that aren't selling any drugs or physically hurting other people)?

That's a very true statement about why it can be a turning point for your kids life. If it's minor they or first offense kind of stuff they should be afforded that opportunity. My main gripe with all of this is the little exposure it gets. If one of our guys f's up its on dateline. It's cool though I've embraced the hate.

 

[woolybug25]

I've already Googled it. And yet again, that happened at high school. I wasn't aware that our Dark Lord Saban had extended his reach to be able to control kids before they even get within a mile of campus. And Dee Liner was an Auburn commit at that time if you really want to make that shoddy argument

First of all, no need to get all snippy, dude.

Secondly, that was one of the many that I listed, if you have that big of a deal with it being on there, then ok. Does that somehow change the long list of others? I disagree with you that Saban is puplable for recruiting a kid despite him being arrested, but that's your opinion.

Like I said... on that list are charges of DUI's, Selling Cocaine, Fights and Domestic Abuse. This isn't a courtroom where we judge the specifics of how it all went down. But to say these aren't serious offenses that went down under his watch is simply ignoring the reality.

 

[SoDakDomer]

Disorderly conduct is a serious crime in your book? It's kids scuffling and shoving, getting into a loud argument in public, or not being 100% cooperative with the cops when they try to break it up. Castille got hit with disorderly conduct because he threatened to punch somebody who cursed at him from a passing car. Barron let someone who didn't have a license borrow his car and then lied to police to try to keep his friend out of trouble. These are not exactly major crimes. Why do you want to make any of this more than it is?

I could care less

The coach busted on possession said he'd never smoked in his life and hair analysis showed he certainly hadn't smoked anytime in the past several months, so charges were dropped

If he doesn't smoke, why in the hell is he in possession of pot?

Liner got arrested in HS for being in the city pool late at night.

We did this all the time in HS

However these last 4 arrests are serious, beating someone unconsious and a possesion of an illegal firearm!! I will be curious to see how Bama handles this, and not just their public response now, but how the roster looks come september.

 

[Grahambo]

So then what's the problem with "Saban welcoming him with open arms"

I edited my statement a little bit above.

Not talking about the severity or not of a crime so throw that out of the window.

I'm referring to him being at 'Bama now regardless of him being an Auburn commit at the time of his 'crime' or 'offense'..whatever you want to call it. He did something, got in trouble with the law, and is now at Alabama thus Saban opening his arms to him.

 

[SoDakDomer]

Oh good grief.

This doesn't happen?

 

[Bishop2b5]

You can't get mad at a fan for defending his school, but I just think these acts are pretty awful. To be fair Bishop was not condoning any of these acts and was more so saying Saban doesn't tolerate these kinds of things. At least that's how I'm reading his posts.

I think you're reading me correctly. Not long after Saban's first season at Bama, we had 2 players (Johns & Elder) who committed serious crimes. Johns was dealing coke. Elder robbed someone with a gun. Both were immediately booted from school and did time. To their credit, both seem to have really turned their lives around since.

As for the rest, up until the arrests in the last 48 hours, they've all been very very minor incidents that are pretty normal for college students, especially a bunch of football players. I'm definitely not condoning any of it, but to call such typical college behavior and minor incidents pretty awful is a stretch.

 

[yankeeND]

I think you're reading me correctly. Not long after Saban's first season at Bama, we had 2 players (Johns & Elder) who committed serious crimes. Johns was dealing coke. Elder robbed someone with a gun. Both were immediately booted from school and did time. To their credit, both seem to have really turned their lives around since.

As for the rest, up until the arrests in the last 48 hours, they've all been very very minor incidents that are pretty normal for college students, especially a bunch of football players. I'm definitely not condoning any of it, but to call such typical college behavior and minor incidents pretty awful is a stretch.

I'm talking about this event. It is awful. This is not typical student athlete behavior Bishop.

 

[Bishop2b5]

I could care less



If he doesn't smoke, why in the hell is he in possession of pot?



We did this all the time in HS

However these last 4 arrests are serious, beating someone unconsious and a possesion of an illegal firearm!! I will be curious to see how Bama handles this, and not just their public response now, but how the roster looks come september.

You could care less? So you and several others insinuate shoving a girl who just slapped you is beating a woman or a HS kid jumping a fence to go swimming indicates he's a thug we should know not to recruit, but when I point out facts and how minor these infractions actually are, your response is "I could care less" as though their equal to murder or rape. OK, got it.

Why was the asst. coach in possession? Do you really want to know or do you just want to hurl accusations and insults without caring if they're fair or accurate or not? The coach was at a coaching clinic. He gave a ride to a few HS coaches. The cops pulled him over shortly after he dropped the other coaches off and asked to search his car. He said sure. They found a small bag of pot stuffed in the back seat. He had no history of any drug use, and hair analysis showed he'd not used pot or any other drug in several months. Charges were dropped. Shouldn't be too hard to figure out what really happened.

As for the 4 arrests this week, you'll get no argument from me on them. If any of what's come out in the last hour is true (and it probably is), Saban will send them packing. I'm just amazed at how hard a few are trying to exaggerate and make so much of all the other very minor incidents.

 

[Bishop2b5]

I'm talking about this event. It is awful. This is not typical student athlete behavior Bishop.

I thought you were talking about the misdemeanors. Heck, I did a lot of that sort of stupid stuff in college. Girls, frat parties, ego, testosterone, and alcohol will cause even the best of us to act a fool when we're 19! LOL

As for this recent thing though, nobody is defending that. Those 4 guys just acted like idiots and thugs. Saban will boot them and the court system is welcome to them. Good riddance.

 

[woolybug25]

You could care less? So you and several others insinuate shoving a girl who just slapped you is beating a woman or a HS kid jumping a fence to go swimming indicates he's a thug we should know not to recruit, but when I point out facts and how minor these infractions actually are, your response is "I could care less" as though their equal to murder or rape. OK, got it.

Why was the asst. coach in possession? Do you really want to know or do you just want to hurl accusations and insults without caring if they're fair or accurate or not? The coach was at a coaching clinic. He gave a ride to a few HS coaches. The cops pulled him over shortly after he dropped the other coaches off and asked to search his car. He said sure. They found a small bag of pot stuffed in the back seat. He had no history of any drug use, and hair analysis showed he'd not used pot or any other drug in several months. Charges were dropped. Shouldn't be too hard to figure out what really happened.

As for the 4 arrests this week, you'll get no argument from me on them. If any of what's come out in the last hour is true (and it probably is), Saban will send them packing. I'm just amazed at how hard a few are trying to exaggerate and make so much of all the other very minor incidents.

You are trying to rationalize why they weren't a big deal instead of acknowledging that the charges themself are serious charges. You cant say that Bama players have stayed out of trouble and simply ignore that there are a ton of arrests that have happened with serious charges like DUI, Possession, Selling Cocaine, etc.

Being convicted or any reasoning behind the stories are an entirely different subject. Saying that Bama kids have stayed out of trouble is simply untrue, because getting arrested for a serious crime (yes, selling drugs and DUI's are serious crimes) in of itself, is "getting in trouble". Whether they were guilty, deserved it, etc is an entirely different subject.

 

[Bishop2b5]

What's with the Bama fans getting defensive? These "student athletes" beat some dude senseless to use his credit card at a vending machine. It's disgusting, pathetic, indefensible and only serves to reinforce the perception that the term "student athlete" is a complete joke at their institution. The fact that it was more than one player points to an institutional problem not some isolated incident.

We aren't defensive about the 4 players arrested this week. They did something totally reprehensible and stupid and nobody is defending them.

We're a little defensive over the other stuff - attempts by a few of your fans to grossly misrepresent and exaggerate very minor misdemeanors and portray them as some sort of horrendous crime wave of out of control thugs.

 

[Grahambo]

We aren't defensive about the 4 players arrested this week. They did something totally reprehensible and stupid and nobody is defending them.

We're a little defensive over the other stuff - attempts by a few of your fans to grossly misrepresent and exaggerate very minor misdemeanors and portray them as some sort of horrendous crime wave of out of control thugs.

I don't think anybody has done that. I think the point is being missed somewhere but I believe we are all talking about getting arrested, period. Regardless of the type of crime, the simple fact that the player was arrested is the topic.

 

[woolybug25]

We aren't defensive about the 4 players arrested this week. They did something totally reprehensible and stupid and nobody is defending them.

We're a little defensive over the other stuff - attempts by a few of your fans to grossly misrepresent and exaggerate very minor misdemeanors and portray them as some sort of horrendous crime wave of out of control thugs.

How are they minor misdemeanors? Selling cocaine is a freaking felony. It's fine if you want to rationalize why they were charged, but these charges are all very serious offenses. I seriously hope you are misunderstanding us and don't really believe that DUI's, Selling Cocaine and Domestic Abuse aren't serious offenses. They most certainly are.

 

[PraetorianND]

These guys need to lay of the deer antler. It's making them all antsy in their pantsy.

 

[jerboski]

These are the first incidents? What were these?


Calloway arrested for weed.

Rolando hitting people with their car.

Jeremy Elder pulling a gun on a student and robbing them.

Jimmy Johns selling cocaine in the athletic parking lot.

Aaron Douglas arrested for DUI.

Mark Barron arrested for lying to police.

Alabama assistant coach arrested for pot.

Simeon Castille arrested on disorderly conduct.

Brandon Deaderick arrested for criminal mischief, resisting arrest, and giving the police a false name.

Brandon Fanney - disorderly conduct.

Roy Upchurch - diorderly conduct.

Courtney Upshaw arrested for domestic violence.

Nico Johnson arrested in high school for verbal harassment. (Dee Liner)



Or by "first incidents" were you referring to felony specific crimes?

Lol owned! Nicely done

 

[Bishop2b5]

You are trying to rationalize why they weren't a big deal instead of acknowledging that the charges themself are serious charges. You cant say that Bama players have stayed out of trouble and simply ignore that there are a ton of arrests that have happened with serious charges like DUI, Possession, Selling Cocaine, etc.

Being convicted or any reasoning behind the stories are an entirely different subject. Saying that Bama kids have stayed out of trouble is simply untrue, because getting arrested for a serious crime (yes, selling drugs and DUI's are serious crimes) in of itself, is "getting in trouble". Whether they were guilty, deserved it, etc is an entirely different subject.

Baloney. You have an agenda and an axe to grind, and you've intentionaly ignored what I said about "since Saban cleaned house in the summer of '08" and "before this week's arrests" at least 3 times and are trying to twist and exaggerate the rest. Why? Is it that important to you to smear Bama regardless of the facts or how you do it?

Since the summer of '08, we haven't had a single felony or serious incident unitl this week. I'm not rationalizing the asst coach's arrest. I'm saying straight up he didn't do anything wrong, the evidence showed that, and the charges were dropped. Sorry, but disorderly conduct for a shoving match, failure to disperse when the cops tell everyone to leave a scuffle outside a bar at 1 a.m., a HS kid jumping the fence at the city pool to go for a late night swim, or guys getting into an argument at a bar are not serious crimes no matter how much you want them to be just because they involve Bama players. I'm not defending possession of pot, but a 19 year old kid arrested for misdemeanor possession is not a major crime.

Now Wooly, you clearly hate Bama and don't mind twisting and exaggerating a bit to smear us. That's cool if you feel you really need to do that. But let's be totally honest here. Do you think no ND player has gotten into some similar minor trouble over the past few years? Are you really going to tell me that ND hasn't had a few 20 year old jocks do something stupid like get into a scuffle, buy alcohol while underage, or just act like a normal college student and do a few dumb things? What would you say if someone then tried to twist those things into a lot more than they really were in order to smear your program?

 

[jerboski]

Bishop2b5,

I admire your courage for coming to an Irish board trying to defend your team and I also agree that you havent once defended the four thugs that are in trouble right now but I believe if your being completely honest that you would have to say that Alabama and much of the SEC have players in trouble with the legal system pretty regularly.

 

[woolybug25]

Baloney. You have an agenda and an axe to grind, and you've intentionaly ignored what I said about "since Saban cleaned house in the summer of '08" and "before this week's arrests" at least 3 times and are trying to twist and exaggerate the rest. Why? Is it that important to you to smear Bama regardless of the facts or how you do it?

Since the summer of '08, we haven't had a single felony or serious incident unitl this week. I'm not rationalizing the asst coach's arrest. I'm saying straight up he didn't do anything wrong, the evidence showed that, and the charges were dropped. Sorry, but disorderly conduct for a shoving match, failure to disperse when the cops tell everyone to leave a scuffle outside a bar at 1 a.m., a HS kid jumping the fence at the city pool to go for a late night swim, or guys getting into an argument at a bar are not serious crimes no matter how much you want them to be just because they involve Bama players. I'm not defending possession of pot, but a 19 year old kid arrested for misdemeanor possession is not a major crime.

Now Wooly, you clearly hate Bama and don't mind twisting and exaggerating a bit to smear us. That's cool if you feel you really need to do that. But let's be totally honest here. Do you think no ND player has gotten into some similar minor trouble over the past few years? Are you really going to tell me that ND hasn't had a few 20 year old jocks do something stupid like get into a scuffle, buy alcohol while underage, or just act like a normal college student and do a few dumb things? What would you say if someone then tried to twist those things into a lot more than they really were in order to smear your program?

haha.. what??

I'm not excaggerrating anything. Did these charges not happen? Were they not arrested for these charges? Are these charges not serious? What part exactly am I excaggerating?

You may have reasoning for justifiying them or explanations for why they weren't necessarily as big of a deal once they went to court. BUT AGAIN, THATS AN ENTIRELY DIFFERENT SUBJECT.

The reality is that the crimes they were charged with are serious offenses. If you disagree with that, then you are stating that crimes like selling cocaine, DUI's, domestic voilence, etc are not serious crimes. Is that what you are saying?

I don't want to hear explanations or justifications, a simple yes or no to the question will suffice. Are the three crimes I listed 1) selling cocaine 2) DUI and 3) Domestic Voilence serious offenses?

There is no way for me to twist or exagerate a simple yes or no answer to that question.

 

[4irishnation]

 

[Bishop2b5]

How are they minor misdemeanors? Selling cocaine is a freaking felony. It's fine if you want to rationalize why they were charged, but these charges are all very serious offenses. I seriously hope you are misunderstanding us and don't really believe that DUI's, Selling Cocaine and Domestic Abuse aren't serious offenses. They most certainly are.

Wooly, do you have a reading comprehension problem? I'm serious. Four times I've stated that the arrests in '08 of Johns and Elder for selling drugs and armed robbery were serious felonies. Four times I've said the arrests this week are serious crimes. Four times I've also said that all the other things you listed were all minor misdemeanors or even things that happened before that player was part of our program.

Why do you keep saying I dont consider selling cocaine a major crime then? Are you not reading my replies, are you so intent on smearing Bama that you'd stoop to distorting the facts, or are you just determined to be a putz about it? I don't mind, I'm just curious.

You're really going to tell me you think a kid jumping a fence to go swimming is a major crime, or a guy shoving a girl away from him after she slaps him is beating a woman? Do you really believe this or do you just not mind being dishonest as long as it suits your purpose? If you have an agenda and just want to exaggerate things in order to smear someone, just come out and say so.

 

[woolybug25]

Wooly, do you have a reading comprehension problem? I'm serious. Four times I've stated that the arrests in '08 of Johns and Elder for selling drugs and armed robbery were serious felonies. Four times I've said the arrests this week are serious crimes. Four times I've also said that all the other things you listed were all minor misdemeanors or even things that happened before that player was part of our program.

Why do you keep saying I dont consider selling cocaine a major crime then? Are you not reading my replies, are you so intent on smearing Bama that you'd stoop to distorting the facts, or are you just determined to be a putz about it? I don't mind, I'm just curious.

You're really going to tell me you think a kid jumping a fence to go swimming is a major crime, or a guy shoving a girl away from him after she slaps him is beating a woman? Do you really believe this or do you just not mind being dishonest as long as it suits your purpose? If you have an agenda and just want to exaggerate things in order to smear someone, just come out and say so.

I think you are the one with the reading comprehension problem, my friend. I have consistently said that we aren't talking about justifications of crimes, but the severity of the charge itself and you just keep coming back with your rationlizations. You keep saying that the charges weren't serious, but they are indeed serious charges. They may or may not have been deserving of the charges, but they are serious nonethe less.

I DO NOT CARE HOW THEY HAPPENED. JUST ANSWER THE QUESTION.

According to this post we have:

1) Selling Cocaine (serious)
2) DUI (no answer)
3) Domestic Voilence (no answer)

If you answer "yes" to all of these questions, than you are proving my point, which was that these charges are serious. You keep saying that they aren't serious crimes, but they are serious crimes. They all have their story and they may have justifications, but that in no way takes away the severity of the charge. Everyone else is getting what I am saying, so I assure you that it is you that has the reading comprehension issue.

Just in case you had trouble reading it the first time, I DO NOT CARE HOW THEY HAPPENED AND DO NOT WANT TO HEAR THE STORY, JUST ANSWER THE QUESTION.

 

[SaltyND24]

My question is...just who put up the f*cking 10% up to get them out??? If these bitches really stole a card from someone to use it on a VENDING MACHINE, then we can assume that their families don't have the funds to just drop $6500 to get them out of jail...OR DO THEY???