Missed by that much (whew!)

[Legacy]

For your retrospective recruiting thoughts today, how about naming your favorite near-misses for the Irish who may well have become near-disasters?

The conditions are that ND was among their final choices, that they were highly-rated (4 or 5 stars) and that you or a large part of the Board were crushed by their decisions to go elsewhere.

I'll start it out with three:

Chris Martin, DE (5* '10) - whose career so far has been summed up best by DublinIrish (below)

• Decommitted from ND
• Signed with Cal - never played a down
• Transferred to Florida - never played a down
• Busted for pot possession.
• Transferred to JUCO, first Navarre College and then to City College of San Francisco
• Signed with Kansas - never played a down
• Busted for home invasion, stole cash and pot
• Got booted from Kansas
• Signed with New Mexico Highlands
  
• His court case from his time in Kansas is still ongoing:
• Former KU football player pleads guilty to felony robbery | KUsports.com

Note: Having missed on Martin in 2010, the DE class of 2011 included Stephon Tuitt, Ishaq Williams and Aaron Lynch

Bubba Starling, QB (4* '11) - Chose Nebraska over ND, but was drafted fifth overall by his hometown KC Royals. He signed with KC in a contract that gave him a $7.5 million bonus.

Note: Notre Dame refocused and signed Everette Golson (3*)

David Perkins, LB (4* '12) - Chose Ohio State where he became famous for tackling Brutus Buckeye during spring football. He left OSU and was arrested in Bowling Green on a visit for allegedly breaking into a car, intoxication and attempting to break into a home. He played at Illinois State last year and was on the Mo Valley All-Newcomer Team.

Note: Having missed on Perkins, ND LB recruits in the class of 2013 included Jaylon Smith and Doug Randolph.

 

[IrishLax]

Clay Burton... has done nothing at Florida and likely wouldn't fit anywhere on this team.

Savon Huggins... awful at football.

Justice Hayes... also awful at football.

Bennett Okotcha... has had a very rough go of things, at some small school doing nothing now.

Jamel James... thank God we were able to sloooooowly back away from that one.

Anthony Standifer... could've been nice to get Treadwell maybe, but otherwise kid clearly would not have been a fit.

 

[Xander]

For your retrospective recruiting thoughts today, how about naming your favorite near-misses for the Irish who may well have become near-disasters?

The conditions are that ND was among their final choices, that they were highly-rated (4 or 5 stars) and that you or a large part of the Board were crushed by their decisions to go elsewhere.

I'll start it out with three:

Chris Martin, DE (5* '10) - whose career so far has been summed up best by DublinIrish (below)

• Decommitted from ND
• Signed with Cal - never played a down
• Transferred to Florida - never played a down
• Busted for pot possession.
• Transferred to JUCO, first Navarre College and then to City College of San Francisco
• Signed with Kansas - never played a down
• Busted for home invasion, stole cash and pot
• Got booted from Kansas
• Signed with New Mexico Highlands
  
• His court case from his time in Kansas is still ongoing:
• Former KU football player pleads guilty to felony robbery | KUsports.com

Note: Having missed on Martin in 2010, the DE class of 2011 included Stephon Tuitt, Ishaq Williams and Aaron Lynch

Bubba Starling, QB (4* '11) - Chose Nebraska over ND, but was drafted fifth overall by his hometown KC Royals. He signed with KC in a contract that gave him a $7.5 million bonus.

Note: Notre Dame refocused and signed Everette Golson (3*)

David Perkins, LB (4* '12) - Chose Ohio State where he became famous for tackling Brutus Buckeye during spring football. He left OSU and was arrested in Bowling Green on a visit for allegedly breaking into a car, intoxication and attempting to break into a home. He played at Illinois State last year and was on the Mo Valley All-Newcomer Team.

Note: Having missed on Perkins, ND LB recruits in the class of 2013 included Jaylon Smith and Doug Randolph.

Didn't even get all the way through your first sentence and I could see the name Chris Martin flashing in my mind.

 

[EuropeanDomer]

Kyle Prater, Seantrel Henderson, Justin McCay, Jake Heaps, DeAnthony Arnett, Kiehl Frazier..

 

[MNIrishman]

Kyle Prater, Seantrel Henderson, Justin McCay, Jake Heaps, DeAnthony Arnett, Kiehl Frazier..

Seantrel is still a very good player, and with our support system, he might not have faced the challenges he has at the factories.

 

[EuropeanDomer]

Seantrel is still a very good player, and with our support system, he might not have faced the challenges he has at the factories.

Yet he is a headache..

 

[BGIF]

Missed by that much (whew!)

For your retrospective recruiting thoughts today, how about naming your favorite near-misses for the Irish who may well have become near-disasters?

The conditions are that ND was among their final choices, that they were highly-rated (4 or 5 stars) and that you or a large part of the Board were crushed by their decisions to go elsewhere.

...

"Near-misses", "ND among the FINAL choices", "highly rated", (whew!)


Really?


"Crushed by their decisions is the more accurate title for most of the names mentioned here. Most were far from "near-misses" as ND students.

Martin was never academically qualified - the rest followed from that. And he didn't miss by a calculus grade, or an on-line French class, or forgetting to take the ACT.

Henderson's saga was similar. The telltale signs were visible early. Seems like NDinL.A. had over 100 posts on Henderson AND dad ... and why ND was not going to happen. BUT somebody would read about ND being one of 20 colleges on his list and a post would appear with ND as a leader. Misinformation does not constitute a near-miss.

Starling committed to Nebraska as a Junior and MLB was still the favorite. He signed with KC out of HS. Didn't go to college. How is that a "near miss?

Kiehl Frazier committed to AUB as a Jr. His recruiter there, Guz Malzahn, was a former HS head coach not only in Frazier's hometown, Springdale, but at Frazier's HS, Shiloh, as well. Malzahn was not only a local hero but a State and Regional legend as well. He probably coached the coaches who coached Frazier from Peewee football on. Delusion is not a near-miss, either.

Okotcha was a Plan B guy. He was the #64 ranked CB.

 

[Me2SouthBend]

"Near-misses", "ND among the FINAL choices", "highly rated", (whew!)


Really?


"Crushed by their decisions is the more accurate title for most of the names mentioned here. Most were far from "near-misses" as ND students.

Martin was never academically qualified - the rest followed from that. And he didn't miss by a calculus grade, or an on-line French class, or forgetting to take the ACT.

Henderson's saga was similar. The telltale signs were visible early. Seems like NDinL.A. had over 100 posts on Henderson AND dad ... and why ND was not going to happen. BUT somebody would read about ND being one of 20 colleges on his list and a post would appear with ND as a leader. Misinformation does not constitute a near-miss.

Starling committed to Nebraska as a Junior and MLB was still the favorite. He signed with KC out of HS. Didn't go to college. How is that a "near miss?

Kiehl Frazier committed to AUB as a Jr. His recruiter there, Guz Malzahn, was a former HS head coach not only in Frazier's hometown, Springdale, but at Frazier's HS, Shiloh, as well. Malzahn was not only a local hero but a State and Regional legend as well. He probably coached the coaches who coached Frazier from Peewee football on. Delusion is not a near-miss, either.

Okotcha was a Plan B guy. He was the #64 ranked CB.

And here I am thinking NDSean wasn't on the board yet. Hmmm.

Welcome back Buddy.

 

[TheChosen1]

Nick Montana

 

[NDinL.A.]

Seantrel is still a very good player, and with our support system, he might not have faced the challenges he has at the factories.

How did that work out for Aaron Lynch? Jordan Prestwood? Justin Furgeson?

Some borderline guys are helped by ND's support system, but some guys are just bad dudes and not good fits. Seantrell was not a good fit and just isn't a very good dude, and you could see the red flags a mile away.

 

[EuropeanDomer]

How did that work out for Aaron Lynch? Jordan Prestwood? Justin Furgeson?

Some borderline guys are helped by ND's support system, but some guys are just bad dudes and not good fits. Seantrell was not a good fit and just isn't a very good dude, and you could see the red flags a mile away.

What happened with Justin Ferguson?

 

[Wild Bill]

What happened with Justin Ferguson?

Fell in love with a girl. Mary something.

 

[Irish#1]

For your retrospective recruiting thoughts today, how about naming your favorite near-misses for the Irish who may well have become near-disasters?

The conditions are that ND was among their final choices, that they were highly-rated (4 or 5 stars) and that you or a large part of the Board were crushed by their decisions to go elsewhere.

I'll start it out with three:

Chris Martin, DE (5* '10) - whose career so far has been summed up best by DublinIrish (below)

• Decommitted from ND
• Signed with Cal - never played a down
• Transferred to Florida - never played a down
• Busted for pot possession.
• Transferred to JUCO, first Navarre College and then to City College of San Francisco
• Signed with Kansas - never played a down
• Busted for home invasion, stole cash and pot
• Got booted from Kansas
• Signed with New Mexico Highlands
  
• His court case from his time in Kansas is still ongoing:
• Former KU football player pleads guilty to felony robbery | KUsports.com

Note: Having missed on Martin in 2010, the DE class of 2011 included Stephon Tuitt, Ishaq Williams and Aaron Lynch

Bubba Starling, QB (4* '11) - Chose Nebraska over ND, but was drafted fifth overall by his hometown KC Royals. He signed with KC in a contract that gave him a $7.5 million bonus.

Note: Notre Dame refocused and signed Everette Golson (3*)

David Perkins, LB (4* '12) - Chose Ohio State where he became famous for tackling Brutus Buckeye during spring football. He left OSU and was arrested in Bowling Green on a visit for allegedly breaking into a car, intoxication and attempting to break into a home. He played at Illinois State last year and was on the Mo Valley All-Newcomer Team.

Note: Having missed on Perkins, ND LB recruits in the class of 2013 included Jaylon Smith and Doug Randolph.

Great topic!

"Near-misses", "ND among the FINAL choices", "highly rated", (whew!)


Really?


"Crushed by their decisions is the more accurate title for most of the names mentioned here. Most were far from "near-misses" as ND students.

Martin was never academically qualified - the rest followed from that. And he didn't miss by a calculus grade, or an on-line French class, or forgetting to take the ACT.

Henderson's saga was similar. The telltale signs were visible early. Seems like NDinL.A. had over 100 posts on Henderson AND dad ... and why ND was not going to happen. BUT somebody would read about ND being one of 20 colleges on his list and a post would appear with ND as a leader. Misinformation does not constitute a near-miss.

Starling committed to Nebraska as a Junior and MLB was still the favorite. He signed with KC out of HS. Didn't go to college. How is that a "near miss?

Kiehl Frazier committed to AUB as a Jr. His recruiter there, Guz Malzahn, was a former HS head coach not only in Frazier's hometown, Springdale, but at Frazier's HS, Shiloh, as well. Malzahn was not only a local hero but a State and Regional legend as well. He probably coached the coaches who coached Frazier from Peewee football on. Delusion is not a near-miss, either.

Okotcha was a Plan B guy. He was the #64 ranked CB.

Are we splitting hairs here? I think his intention was to highlight kids we were after, didn't get regardless of the reason and how they haven't had a big impact at their final destination.

 

[NDinL.A.]

What happened with Justin Ferguson?

Was more into pot than school. Which is fine cause lets not get it twisted - lots of ND players smoke, but he and Neal were brazen about their pot smoking. Was never a good fit. Transferred but he was really kicked out.

 

[connor_in]

Fell in love with a girl. Mary something.

wasn't the last name kinda Spanish sounding? like Juanita?

 

[Irishman77]

Matt Elam

 

[irishog77]

eddie vanderdoes and arik armstead

 

[irishknight35]

Not all of them were close misses but the guys that ND was in the top 5 for that ended up at Stanford are the ones that sting the most for me. Stanford has really eaten into ND's group of recruits that can perform academically and athletically.

Blake Lueders LB/DE: decommited from ND for Stanford. Senior and Currently a starter
Alex Carter CB: ND Legacy that had the Irish in final group. Junior and currently a starter
Noor Davis LB: Chose Stanford over ND. Sophomore

Just a few guys that ND had a legitimate shot at that would be making impact on the field if they were with the Irish.

 

[MNIrishman]

How did that work out for Aaron Lynch? Jordan Prestwood? Justin Furgeson?

Some borderline guys are helped by ND's support system, but some guys are just bad dudes and not good fits. Seantrell was not a good fit and just isn't a very good dude, and you could see the red flags a mile away.

Oh for sure. But as long as we're playing the what if game, I like to think that there's a better chance he'd be unlikely to have problems here than at USC or Miami. I know some people are just unfixable, but others can do better in the right environment. Maybe Seantrel's in the first category, maybe he's not.

 

[Legacy]

Factors

Factors

"I think his intention was to highlight kids we were after, didn't get regardless of the reason and how they haven't had a big impact at their final destination." Irish #1 is exactly right.

Jordan Prestwood would have made the list if he had not transferred here and then left.

For me, ratings were filters and interest/visits as well as subsequent arrests, dismissals, transfers with no success at chosen school or buried on the depth charts played a big part.

Admittedly, I am not as aware of many of the factors that led to their choices elsewhere and appreciate input.

But all staffs will take chances on some recruits. BK's staff may have let interest slip as the process wore on in pursuit of the RKG. And I wanted to highlight how ND compensated that year or the next. Starling was a toss-in for that reason.

How about DeMarcus Robinson, Byron Moore?

Kyle Prater, Ty Isaac and Kyle Dodson may still have success.

Want to include subsequent medical problems as a factor?

 

[Legacy]

Clay Burton... has done nothing at Florida and likely wouldn't fit anywhere on this team.

Savon Huggins... awful at football.

Justice Hayes... also awful at football.

Bennett Okotcha... has had a very rough go of things, at some small school doing nothing now.

Jamel James... thank God we were able to sloooooowly back away from that one.

Anthony Standifer... could've been nice to get Treadwell maybe, but otherwise kid clearly would not have been a fit.

Spot On!

 

[PatsandBostonfan1975]

Randy Moss .... Mooned Green Bay.

 

[ACamp1900]

Chris Donald was one, we fought hard on that one and looked to be the leader for a bit... went Vols and vanished.

 

[ND NYC]

Chris Donald was one, we fought hard on that one and looked to be the leader for a bit... went Vols and vanished.

was thinking same thing ! couldnt rememn=ber the first name. he was an LB (from hendersonville IIRC...CW first full recruiting year righ?)

 

[GolsonHeisman14]

Matt Elam

I feel like Matt Elam will be successful with the Kentucky program. I wish he would have picked us but he is from KY and seemed to be a hero when he was taking the OV to UK.

A few guys that popped into my mind.
Tee Shephard: He was supposed to be a huge commit for us but transferred out before ever playing a down. His cousin shafted us a few years ago to go to Houston. Yes... Houston! Deontay Greenberry. He should get drafted this next year.

I was pretty upset whenever Davonte Neal left the program but I feel he was never 100% committed to us.

Luckily, our coaches do a great job of finding talent where other schools seem to overlook. IMO I would much rather have a better all around player who fits our scheme and is a 3* prospect then a high school stud whose a 4* who we try to fit into our scheme.

Looking at the rating realistically, most times the 4 & 5* players don't pan out.

 

[ACamp1900]

Randy Moss .... Mooned Green Bay.

yeah, thank goodness we dodged that one.....

 

[Henges24]

Chris Donald was one, we fought hard on that one and looked to be the leader for a bit... went Vols and vanished.

Martez Wilson was the same year I believe.

 

[pumpdog20]

Blake Barnett

 

[PANDFAN]

I feel like Matt Elam will be successful with the Kentucky program. I wish he would have picked us but he is from KY and seemed to be a hero when he was taking the OV to UK.

A few guys that popped into my mind.
Tee Shephard: He was supposed to be a huge commit for us but transferred out before ever playing a down. His cousin shafted us a few years ago to go to Houston. Yes... Houston! Deontay Greenberry. He should get drafted this next year.

I was pretty upset whenever Davonte Neal left the program but I feel he was never 100% committed to us.

Luckily, our coaches do a great job of finding talent where other schools seem to overlook. IMO I would much rather have a better all around player who fits our scheme and is a 3* prospect then a high school stud whose a 4* who we try to fit into our scheme.

Looking at the rating realistically, most times the 4 & 5* players don't pan out

That's not true regarding 5stars especially as their bust rate is far less,now we had a few in recent memory crist,Aldridge and some higher ranked 4stars but in general they are far less likely not to...just check recent nfl drafts

 

[yankeehater]

All this discussion about former recruits, remind me of dudes who continually talk about ex-girlfriends that dumped them or even worse (in some cases with these recruits) girls that never went on one date with them!