Marcus Freeman Revisited

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CANONIZEFATHERSORIN

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IRISHDODGER said:
TL;DR : yes MF has inexcusable losses to inferior teams but IF he fixes that, he’s still had ND competitive or even winning in the marquee matchups vs blue bloods that usually beat or annihilated BK-coached teams in his 2nd act of 2017-2021.






We knew MF would be “learning on the job” when Swarbrick named him to replace BK. To those who were truly against his hiring…maybe you’ll get to say “I told you so”…that’s fair.

We all agree the inexplicable losses to vastly inferior lower level schools in year three is inexcusable. Tomorrow may be the biggest game of his young HC career.

BK inherited a broken program, so as embarrassing as it was to lose to Tulsa, Navy, AF, USF, etc MF inherited a program that BK had rebuilt into a contender.

2016 was inexcusable, however; for any tenured HC like BK yet he kept his job under the proviso he made staff changes. He did & it paid off from 2017-2021 where he had ND in the conversation as one of the top ten programs in the nation. He did what we were all wanting the previous three HC to do: beat the teams you’re supposed to beat. That’s where MF is struggling mightily (see Marshall, Stanford, UL & now NIU).

Here’s where I try to find a silver lining (I know it’s a stretch). MF hasn’t had his team get absolutely blown out (yet) in marquee games like BK did in his second act of 2017-2021.

2017 #3 ND gets annihilated by #7 Miami 41-8 and ND is a laughing stock again. To doom them to a mid-tier bowl, they then proceed to lose to #21 ranked Stanford by three TDs.

2018 undefeated regular season only to, once again; be emasculated in the CFP by Clemson. The Tigers were clearly head & shoulders above everyone that year (ask Bama) but ND couldn’t even put up a fight.

2019 After a competitive loss to UGA, ND takes care of business & looks to still have high postseason aspirations until they travel to #19 scUM and again shit the bed w/ a 45-14 blowout loss on national TV

2020 ND runs the table again w/ an all ACC schedule. After an epic contest vs #1 Clemson where ND wins in 2OT, they cruise to the CFP. And then they shit the bed again as they are non-competitive in both the ACC CG & the CFP semi-final

2021 Much like this year, ND had a very manageable schedule. Their biggest challenge is from a G5 team but they have to come to ND stadium. Yet they play down to their competition & while avoiding the blowout, lost at home in a game that harkened back to the pre-2017 BK days effectively ruining their chance for the CFP

I thought MF would get us over that hump that BK couldn’t quite get ND. Maybe he still will but it’s trending the other way in just one short week after the euphoric season opening win over aTm.
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Going 0-2 against Ohio State destroys this narrative
 
BoredIrish

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In year 3, I think we are at the point where we know how MF operates.
  1. I dont think he cares at all about the media and there are no leaks to the ND beat. Guys sitting at home in their living rooms have as much insight into the team as the guys covering it day to day.
  2. Regardless of what we think of him, MF has some smart guys in the room. If we can see that the WR's are open, they can definitely see it too.
  3. As much as the fanbase cares about winning, the coaching staff cares more. The team absolutely crapped the bed last week and rolling the same group out there and expecting better results is the definition of insanity.
All of this is to say that I expect Angeli to be the starter on Saturday. Worst case, Leonard gets 2-3 series to prove himself or Angeli is in the game by the 2nd quarter.

If Riley Leonard starts and finishes this game and the Irish lose, MF should be fired on the tarmac.
 
Hautian Domer

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IRISHDODGER said:
TL;DR : yes MF has inexcusable losses to inferior teams but IF he fixes that, he’s still had ND competitive or even winning in the marquee matchups vs blue bloods that usually beat or annihilated BK-coached teams in his 2nd act of 2017-2021.
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Unless we're ignoring some of BK's games and really hitching our wagon to the 2022 11-3 Clemson, 2023 Ohio State epic failure/loss, and 2023 8-5 USC win .... I fail to see what MF has done differently than BK
 
Irish du Nord

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KMac151993 said:
Not saying there is a right answer but just curious:

Would you rather get blown out and embarrassed in the CFP or lose to a team like Marshall/NIU and not sniff the CFP?
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Always choose to make the playoffs. That’s always the choice. Lots of great teams get blown out by other great teams, only a select few get to do so in the playoffs
 
IRISHMAN

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ThePiombino said:
Questions are:

1.) Are these blind spots that should be in existence in year #3?
2.) Are these blind spots that our own self-scouting should have caught well before last week?
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these are the growing pains of a HC learning on the job.
 
Jiggafini19Deux

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When you're looking at "Year 3", who really hit it on year 3? Holtz and Kelly. Davie did not, Willingham did not, Weis did not.

The whole idea of Year 3 is predicated on an era long gone by. Ara, Devine, Holtz, Kelly hit it. Faust, Davie, Willingham and Weis didn't hit it. I think Year 3 coupled with the Denbrock hire and the perception of the schedule may have baited us into getting our expectations higher than they should have been. Then they beat TAMU away and suddenly we're all walking on air. The reality is the more recently employed head coaches had very bad year 3. Kelly was the first in a while to bring that back.

The reality is we really didn't know enough about Leonard and this receiver group to start stamping a ticket to 12-0 or 11-1. We still don't know enough about them, quite frankly.
 
Jimmy3Putt

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SoIll said:
John Brice was asked what other head coaches think of Marcus Freeman. Pretty much said ACC coaches and others feel they have an advantage over ND with MF at the helm. Games the other coaches know they should lose, but believe MF gives them a chance. Especially in the 4th quarter. Could tell he wanted to elaborate more, but chose not to.

Also, I was told extensions were about to ramp up after A&M. Those have now halted.
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I don't understand how they would have an advantage. If he was in charge of the offense or defense, yeah maybe.
He's basically a cheerleader. We have the best coordinators that money can buy.
 
IRISHDODGER

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CANONIZEFATHERSORIN said:
Going 0-2 against Ohio State destroys this narrative
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No it doesn’t. Based on BK’s 2nd Act, ND would’ve gotten destroyed like they did on the big stage more times than not. MF should’ve won the 2nd game but BK’s history would’ve had ND showing up and shitting the bed
 
IRISHDODGER

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Hautian Domer said:
Unless we're ignoring some of BK's games and really hitching our wagon to the 2022 11-3 Clemson, 2023 Ohio State epic failure/loss, and 2023 8-5 USC win .... I fail to see what MF has done differently than BK
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I said one can’t win the small games but competed or won the big games. BK won the small games but got destroyed & embarrassed in the big games. How soon folks forget. I agree MF should’ve won last year vs OSU but BK’s history in big games tells us, they’d gotten blown off the field & it would’ve been over by halftime...just like Miami, just like Michigan, just like Stanford, just like both CFP games, just like ACC title game, just like the Cincy game. It never stopped regardless of the talent he had.
 
irishff1014

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irishff1014 said:
Did anyone have a chance to listen to the podcast with Brice? Trying to confirm some of the things I am seeing on x.
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Interested in the down vote? I haven’t been able to find it and there seems to be some things said that I highly doubt a reporter would say?
 
BeatSC

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So I didn’t watch the game as I thought I would just digest all the thoughts from this site and save myself the torture. I often wait until I know ND has won to avoid heightened BP. Well I just finished watching the first half.
The two worst parts of the overall performance was the playcalling by Denbrock. Not the QB play. Worst offensive play was the big Greathouse drop. Completely unacceptable. Perfect pass. RL passing in the first half was actually very accurate with the exception of the late throw int which should have been called PI.
The second worst part of the first half was the Dline and LB okay I’m rushing situations which was most plays. Hinish should never be in there in short yardage. He isn’t big enough to play MLB. Blown off the ball 5 yards!
Leonard was CLEARLY banged up before the half in the sling down. Thought he even looked sore on the first series. Ignoring this and keeping him in there for the second half was coaching malpractice. Also the ref called ticky tac holding on a nice run play and seemed to not use the same standard for NIU.
Lousy FG attempt before the half that got blocked. Low trajectory. There’s another play that cost us the game. That one and the long TD pass which was a fluke. If Mills puts his hands up to block it instead of in the QBs helmet for a roughing penalty they don’t get that. #1 embarrassed Golden and his rushing D. We better do something before the GT game.
 
BeatSC

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Ok watches the second half and run game was good. Obvious to anyone Riley is banged up so no plays from him. He wasn’t making big throws but he was mostly putting the balls in good places. Only a couple bad throws and then the one disgraceful decision/throw which he owes many an apology for. As much focus as we have out on Leonard more goes on Denbrock for not running more but the Dline okayed worse than our QB. Amazing we only gave up 16 points. NIU QB was basically flawless and the TD pass was unconscious. Our secondary is still excellent. If Leonard can’t go full run then he needs to come out.
 
GATTACA!

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IRISHDODGER said:
I said one can’t win the small games but competed or won the big games. BK won the small games but got destroyed & embarrassed in the big games. How soon folks forget. I agree MF should’ve won last year vs OSU but BK’s history in big games tells us, they’d gotten blown off the field & it would’ve been over by halftime...just like Miami, just like Michigan, just like Stanford, just like both CFP games, just like ACC title game, just like the Cincy game. It never stopped regardless of the talent he had.
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Meh. BK got them to beat Oklahoma in 2012, Clemson in 2020, good USC teams, LSU in two bowls. He certainly lost most of the marquee games, but one win over TAMU doesn’t make me believe Freeman is already clear of BK in that regard. Especially since we have to consider the OSU shoulda woulda couldas.
SoIll said:
This team is in the final 4 with Ian Book. The hate for him is incredible.
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If only we knew how good we had it.
 
IrishSteelhead

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GATTACA! said:
Meh. BK got them to beat Oklahoma in 2012, Clemson in 2020, good USC teams, LSU in two bowls. He certainly lost most of the marquee games, but one win over TAMU doesn’t make me believe Freeman is already clear of BK in that regard. Especially since we have to consider the OSU shoulda woulda couldas.

If only we knew how good we had it.
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Why would BK’s win in 2020 against Clemson count, but not MF’s win against Clemson in 2022?

Why would BK’s win against #23, 4 loss LSU in a bowl game count, but not MF’s win against #23, 4 loss SCar in a bowl game?

Why would BK get credit for beating “good” USC teams, but MF doesn’t for beating USC when they were actually ranked in the top ten?

MF’s resume is more than “one win over TAMU” in this regard.

BK lost to Duke (when they were truly Duke) and NAVY in year 5 FFS.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
irishandy

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KMac151993 said:
Not saying there is a right answer but just curious:

Would you rather get blown out and embarrassed in the CFP or lose to a team like Marshall/NIU and not sniff the CFP?
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The goal is to win a NC, to have a chance at the NC you need to get the CFP.

I would rather get blown out and embarrassed in the CFP. I understand the Marshall loss in year 1, but the NIU loss in year 3 is a step back.

Getting to the CFP is a progress moving forward and something to build on.
 
stlnd01

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INLaw said:
Freeman did a better job than bk did of taking a game in pocket and showing his team and fans future stars and see guys get snaps that most of their career will be on prep team. I appreciate that about today.
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We spent the entire second half trying out the future and that's just fine.
 
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