Manning V Al Jazeera

[philipm31]

Manning's neck surgery was in 2010, so he would have been recovering while his wife gave birth to their twins in 2011, so to think that SHE might not have gotten HGH shipped to her for IVF, as connor pointed out, is what makes this an even bigger non-story and a vastly more private affair for the Mannings. Hence, why the defamation suit could go forward, or at the very least, explain why Peyton was so furious.

Also, it was a flat-out HIPAA violation of doctor-patient confidentiality between Ashley Manning and her doctor. That alone is enough to engender thoughts of a lawsuit.

 

[irishfan]

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/06/s...ton-manning-derek-jeter-charles-sly.html?_r=0

This story is about 99% dead, but this was some great work by NYT yesterday. There is so much smoke here with this story. Not much Manning in this story, but I didn't want to start a new thread since it applies. I quoted a couple parts, but there are more interesting details in the story. Also mentions how this guy worked with Jeter.

As I turned over the possibility that Sly had lied to the undercover reporter, I kept coming back to the names. Why these specific athletes?

With the help of my New York Times colleagues Ken Belson and Doris Burke, I scrutinized the list of names, and it soon appeared less random than at first blush. Nearly all of the athletes Sly named are clients of Jason Riley, a fitness trainer based in Sarasota, Fla.

Here is where Sly’s story becomes more intriguing.

Sly is a business partner of Riley’s. When Sly applied for a pharmacist’s license in Florida, he used Riley’s home address.

Riley and Sly founded Elementz Nutrition, a nutritional supplement company whose website and Facebook page feature many of the athletes Sly mentioned on camera. Zimmerman was featured on the website; Howard, Neal and Keller (who is also featured on the website) appeared on the Facebook page. In one photograph on Facebook, Riley poses at his gym, the Compound, between the mountainous Howard and the no less imposing Neal.

Not every athlete cited by Sly in the Al Jazeera report is connected to Elementz, and not all of Elementz’s big-time clients were mentioned by Sly.

But what to make of Sly? In the end, this story hinges on his credibility. A man who operates in the athletic shadows, he was confronted with his hours of undercover interviews and recanted. He proclaimed himself an idle boaster.

What was he supposed to do, if what he had said was true? Acknowledge it and allow his words to become his manacles?

Mitosomal growth factors, stem cells and pig brain peptide: He talked of all with a chemist’s ease. His network, as he described it, extends from Germany and Switzerland to Vancouver, British Columbia, where Chad Robertson, a pharmacist, said Sly was a savant of doping.

The Al Jazeera documentary was only the latest report to reveal sports doping as a spider’s web that stretches across continents and oceans. You wonder if the pro league chieftains, Rob Manfred in baseball and the N.F.L. sachem Roger Goodell, have paid attention, and have the stomach to pursue these strands.

They might want to hurry. Last week, Elementz Nutrition voluntarily dissolved and closed its doors.

 

[IrishLax]

Howard and Zimmerman already sued Al Jazeera for libel so these people are all going to get deposed under oath unless 1) Al Jazeera retracts their story 2) Al Jazeera settles.

 

[irishfan]

Howard and Zimmerman already sued Al Jazeera for libel so these people are all going to get deposed under oath unless 1) Al Jazeera retracts their story 2) Al Jazeera settles.

I'm surprised any athlete would open themselves up for the "discovery" portion of a defamation case. It will also be nearly impossible for them to win.

Al Jazeera was also just the "news gatherer" and didn't accuse any of these athletes of taking HGH. They also have 1st amendment rights so it will be almost impossible to prove malice. I'm not sure how Howard/Zimmerman expect to win this case.

 

[Rhode Irish]

I'm surprised any athlete would open themselves up for the "discovery" portion of a defamation case. It will also be nearly impossible for them to win.

Al Jazeera was also just the "news gatherer" and didn't accuse any of these athletes of taking HGH. They also have 1st amendment rights so it will be almost impossible to prove malice. I'm not sure how Howard/Zimmerman expect to win this case.

Filing a law suit, or threatening to do so, in this case is a PR stunt. Filing the suit will get media attention while the story is still somewhat fresh and make them appear innocent; later, when the matter has completely receded from public consciousness, they will withdraw the suit and hope nobody notices.

These guys are lucky that this investigation was done by al-jazeera and not CNN or ESPN, and that most Americans are ignorant halfwits that thing al-jazeera is the propaganda arm of al-qaeda because it has an Arabic name. I think all of the circumstantial evidence presented in the report and afterwards paints a pretty clear picture.

I would say that there is definitely more convincing evidence that Peyton Manning used HGH to aid his recovery from his neck injury than there was that Tom Brady was involved in a scheme to deflate footballs, so it does anger me that the mainstream sports media has decided to actively ignore the story to protect Manning when they chose to do everything they could to keep the Brady story alive last year. Having said that, though, I actually like Manning and don't blame him at all for doing what he had to do to get back on the field. I don't hold that against him at all, and in fact I believe that sports leagues should allow players to be prescribed HGH, certain "safe" steroids and whatever else could benefit them in coming back from severe injuries.

 

[IrishLax]

I'm surprised any athlete would open themselves up for the "discovery" portion of a defamation case. It will also be nearly impossible for them to win.

Al Jazeera was also just the "news gatherer" and didn't accuse any of these athletes of taking HGH. They also have 1st amendment rights so it will be almost impossible to prove malice. I'm not sure how Howard/Zimmerman expect to win this case.

Typically true, but in this case Zimmerman and Howard both contacted them before they aired the story and pointed out errors (as well as categorically denied the claims). They ran the story anyways... and then later went back and revised the errors. So it's actually not to hard to prove malice in this case, because they showed malice running the story with obvious and provable inaccuracies that they didn't fact check AND were advised of ahead of time by the people they damaged.

Also, neither of them feel like they have anything to hide, so......

 

[IrishLax]

Filing a law suit, or threatening to do so, in this case is a PR stunt. Filing the suit will get media attention while the story is still somewhat fresh and make them appear innocent; later, when the matter has completely receded from public consciousness, they will withdraw the suit and hope nobody notices.

These guys are lucky that this investigation was done by al-jazeera and not CNN or ESPN, and that most Americans are ignorant halfwits that thing al-jazeera is the propaganda arm of al-qaeda because it has an Arabic name. I think all of the circumstantial evidence presented in the report and afterwards paints a pretty clear picture.

Yeah except neither CNN nor ESPN would've run the story, because the story is garbage. So your entire point is self-defeating.

I would say that there is definitely more convincing evidence that Peyton Manning used HGH to aid his recovery from his neck injury than there was that Tom Brady was involved in a scheme to deflate footballs, so it does anger me that the mainstream sports media has decided to actively ignore the story to protect Manning when they chose to do everything they could to keep the Brady story alive last year. Having said that, though, I actually like Manning and don't blame him at all for doing what he had to do to get back on the field. I don't hold that against him at all, and in fact I believe that sports leagues should allow players to be prescribed HGH, certain "safe" steroids and whatever else could benefit them in coming back from severe injuries.

And back to Brady. Classic.

 

[Rhode Irish]

Yeah except neither CNN nor ESPN would've run the story, because the story is garbage. So your entire point is self-defeating.

Not sure what you mean. The Manning camp has basically confirmed that HGH was sent to Mrs. Manning, which was the thrust of the story inviting you to draw your own (obvious) conclusion. The New York Times did some follow up on this which further validates the story, so I'm not clear on what about it can fairly be called garbage.

And back to Brady. Classic.

Imagine in 2013 a Michigan pro prospect was exposed as having made up and continued to tell for months a story about someone in his family battling a rare disease and used it to garner himself countless amounts of attention from the national media during the season and even set up a fund to which many people were sending donations. Then it came out it was all an elaborate hoax and the national media just ignored it because they kinda like Michigan and they think the kid is a nice kid. In light of the way Manti was just character-assassinated the previous year, you wouldn't draw any kind of comparison about the way the situations were handled? If you say you wouldn't, you're full of shit. You're my guy, so no offense, but you'd be all over that situation.


ETA: I had not read any of the previous posts in this thread, so I see some of this discussion had already taken place here. Sorry for being late to the party. Still, I don't agree with basically anything you've said in this thread.

 

[irishfan]

Yeah except neither CNN nor ESPN would've run the story, because the story is garbage. So your entire point is self-defeating.

A guy recanting his story so he doesn't get sued for defamation doesn't make the story "garbage." He got used by Al Jazeera and hidden cameras. I can guarantee he wants this story to die.

This isn't all Al Jazeera, but with some digging it's a pretty big story with a lot of sketchy details.

--Manning's wife was getting HGH that's all been confirmed by the lack of any denial on Peyton's part. This of course was at the same time he was going through neck treatment.

--Peyton hired Ari Fleischer of all people for PR when the story broke.

--The Guyer Institute is as sketchy as it gets. An Indy Star reporter (Kravitz--guy who broke Delategate) said he was illegally prescribed HGH from Peyton's doctor.

--Peyton's doctor was sued for all the loans he received from a man convicted in a Ponzi scheme.

--Somewhere, someone is lying about Sly's employment at Guyer. They said it was 2013, but Al Jazeera released video of their call where the Institute says 2011. They made it seem like he was some no-name intern, but the lady at Guyer who picked up the phone knew Sly's name instantly.

--The New York Times article I posted today shows the connections that Sly had with his company Elementz Nutrition. As NYT notes, Sly threw out so many seemingly random names that ended up being connected through him here (Peyton was not).

--Elementz Nutrition (which was never named anywhere in the original story) dissolved last week when the story breaks.


The fact that Peyton's wife was receiving HGH should be enough for this to be a story. It's the same story that Clemens used. It doesn't mean he was lying just like Clemens, but it makes 0 sense why the media is taking Peyton's word that it was strictly for his wife.

“Any medical treatments my wife received, that’s her business. Had nothing to do with me. Nothing has been sent to her or my wife used that I have taken.”

^How on earth was this quote enough for everyone to drop this story? Steroid allegations never end well. Just because the media loves Peyton and he seems lovable in commercials shouldn't mean no one thinks twice about a PED allegation.

Also, I don't think Al Jazeera would produce a "garbage" story for some reason:

Al Jazeera America has won six awards for various investigative reports in just the past two years, with three other nominations. It has won another six awards for its documentary productions, two of which won 2014 Peabody Awards, the highest possible honor for “public service” in American media.

It’s ultimately a matter of opinion whether you consider Al Jazeera America a reputable news source, but considering their track record, it’s hard to believe that they would run a story containing allegations that they were not sure were true.

 

[Rhode Irish]

A guy recanting his story so he doesn't get sued for defamation doesn't make the story "garbage." He got used by Al Jazeera and hidden cameras. I can guarantee he wants this story to die.

He's not recanting because of fear of a law suit from the guys named (maybe partially that), he's recanting because this is his business. This is what he does for a living, and it is an elicit business. He is going to lose his livelihood based on those videos and he may have even opened himself up to criminal investigation. If this was an expose about cocaine and they had a guy on camera telling the reporter how he could get cocaine and who he'd gotten cocaine for in the past, bet your ass he would say he was bullshitting when the videos came out.

 

[IrishLax]

Not sure what you mean. The Manning camp has basically confirmed that HGH was sent to Mrs. Manning, which was the thrust of the story inviting you to draw your own (obvious) conclusion. The New York Times did some follow up on this which further validates the story, so I'm not clear on what about it can fairly be called garbage.

What's garbage is that they effectively have nothing backing up their insinuation, and a lot of their initial reporting just flat out had errors (many they've since corrected). That's all spelled out pretty well in the lawsuits.

The entire thing is basically a tabloid piece, and by their own admission has literally no evidence linking Peyton Manning to any wrong doing. I don't know nor do I care what his wife may or may not have been taking it for. That's not the story. The story is let's guess if Peyton took Medicine prescribed to his wife. Which is just completely unfair on so many levels, especially because you can't prove a negative... nor should his wife be asked to reveal her medical conditions and "justify" receiving any medication.

Imagine in 2013 a Michigan pro prospect was exposed as having made up and continued to tell for months a story about someone in his family battling a rare disease and used it to garner himself countless amounts of attention from the national media during the season and even set up a fund to which many people were sending donations. Then it came out it was all an elaborate hoax and the national media just ignored it because they kinda like Michigan and they think the kid is a nice kid. In light of the way Manti was just character-assassinated the previous year, you wouldn't draw any kind of comparison about the way the situations were handled? If you say you wouldn't, you're full of shit. You're my guy, so no offense, but you'd be all over that situation.

I think it's my duty bust the balls of all Pats fans, whenever possible. I don't live in Patriot country, my team isn't even in the same conference as the Patriots... they are as irrelevant to me as it gets when it comes to pro franchises.

The reason I do is because you all are absolutely obsessed with the idea that everyone is out to get you and everything is about the Patriots. The reason why no one gives a crap about this story is because of what I said above... there is literally no evidence whatsoever that Peyton Manning took anything sent to his wife. None. It has nothing to do with liking Manning, and it has nothing to do with disliking the Patriots.

The reason people gave a crap about the deflated footballs is because there was reported hard evidence of tampering in a playoff game. In retrospect, the "evidence" is extremely questionable and the initial reporting was full of errors. But the story wasn't "what does Brady know about Giselle's medication that was sent to her, and what hypothetical ways might he have possibly used said medication to cheat in the past?" The situations really could not be more different.

 

[NDWorld247]

Peyton Manning is a cheater.

 

[Rhode Irish]

What's garbage is that they effectively have nothing backing up their insinuation, and a lot of their initial reporting just flat out had errors (many they've since corrected). That's all spelled out pretty well in the lawsuits.

The entire thing is basically a tabloid piece, and by their own admission has literally no evidence linking Peyton Manning to any wrong doing. I don't know nor do I care what his wife may or may not have been taking it for. That's not the story. The story is let's guess if Peyton took Medicine prescribed to his wife. Which is just completely unfair on so many levels, especially because you can't prove a negative... nor should his wife be asked to reveal her medical conditions and "justify" receiving any medication.

Yeah I just don't agree with this take on what was reported. You have a pro athlete who was suffering a career threatening injury, and at that specific time his wife just happened to need the thing that pro athletes tend to take to help them recover from injuries? That is a bridge too far for me. What kind of an idiot would Peyton Manning have to be to have something like that sent to him addressed to him? Even sending it to his wife seems like a lazy and dumb attempt at covering his tracks specifically because it would be so obvious that it was intended for him to use. As far as circumstantial evidence goes, that HGH was sent to his wife at that particular point in time, taken along with all the other strands picked at by al-jazeera and pulled at by the NYT, seems like as much of a slam dunk as you could have with circumstantial evidence.

And again, to be clear, I DON'T CARE AT ALL IF PEYTON TOOK HGH. Doesn't bother me, I totally understand why he would have and if I were in his spot I would have. My issue is with the way the rest of the media dealt with this story, circling the wagons around their guy, when they did the opposite when it was my guy. If the media's point was "yeah so what he took some HGH to get back on the field? If he didn't we may not have ever seen him play again so I'm glad he did it and if he needs to do it again this offseason, he should" then I would co-sign that take 100%. I just don't like what I see as hypocrisy on the part of the media, specifically ESPN.

 

[Irish Insanity]

So, with Brady and Manning needing an asterisk next to their stats, who should we be considering as the G.O.A.T. now?

 

[Blazers46]

All Jazeera once did a whole show about our detention facility her in Las Cruces. Said it was one of the roughest juvenile facilities in America and talked about some program we are doing to help these kids. Very little of the show was factual.

 

[TheRealLynch51]

Peyton Manning is a cheater.

Just like Tom Brady.

 

[irishfan]

Just like Tom Brady.

Brady's not the GOAT when it comes to cheating then:

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Tom Brady, with properly inflated & closely monitored footballs: 1st in NFL in touchdowns, 3rd in yards, 4th in rating, 1st in TD/INT ratio.</p>— Michael Hurley (@michaelFhurley) <a href="https://twitter.com/michaelFhurley/status/684128852273172480">January 4, 2016</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[NDWorld247]

Just like Tom Brady.

I'm happy that you agree Peyton is a cheater but why are you, an Indianapolis Colts fan, bringing Tom Brady into this? This thread is about discussing how Peyton Manning cheated. Let's stay on topic.

 

[Irish Insanity]

I'm happy that you agree Peyton is a cheater but why are you, an Indianapolis Colts fan, bringing Tom Brady into this? This thread is about discussing how Peyton Manning cheated. Let's stay on topic.

Hahahahahahahahahaha. Wasn't it one of you Pats fans who said they're forever linked? Wasn't it one of you Pats fans who posted the Manning rumors in the Deflate Gate thread? I could be wrong tho

 

[IrishLax]

Hahahahahahahahahaha. Wasn't it one of you Pats fans who said they're forever linked? Wasn't it one of you Pats fans who posted the Manning rumors in the Deflate Gate thread? I could be wrong tho

You're not. I think (hope?) he was being tongue in cheek... because RealLynch was clearly playing off the above Brady discussion.

 

[NDWorld247]

Hahahahahahahahahaha. Wasn't it one of you Pats fans who said they're forever linked? Wasn't it one of you Pats fans who posted the Manning rumors in the Deflate Gate thread? I could be wrong tho

I didn't say anything about Tom Brady or the Pats. I posted about Peyton Manning being a cheater and TheRealLynch responded to my post with some crap about Brady. I'm not here to talk about Brady. Someone can start a GOAT thread if they want to talk about him. Like I said, let's stay on topic and talk about that cheater Peyton Manning.

 

[Irish#1]

It was floating around Indy before Manning got hurt that his wife was having problems getting pregnant.

 

[IrishLax]

This is really not hard, guys...
1. There are plausible reasons that his wife would be taking HGH.
2. There is no evidence whatsoever that Peyton Manning took HGH.
3A. It's not reasonable to suggest that his wife must divulge her medical history to "prove" why she was getting shipped HGH.
3B. It's impossible to prove a negative, so even if his wife divulged why she was receiving HGH you would still have people insinuating that he was taking what was sent to her.

The above is why no one besides Pats fans gives a single fuck about this story. Because it isn't a story... it's factless speculation and insinuation.

 

[NDohio]

This is really not hard, guys...
1. There are plausible reasons that his wife would be taking HGH.
2. There is no evidence whatsoever that Peyton Manning took HGH.
3A. It's not reasonable to suggest that his wife must divulge her medical history to "prove" why she was getting shipped HGH.
3B. It's impossible to prove a negative, so even if his wife divulged why she was receiving HGH you would still have people insinuating that he was taking what was sent to her.

The above is why no one besides Pats fans gives a single fuck about this story. Because it isn't a story... it's factless speculation and insinuation.

Yeah but Brady was - you know - innocent

 

[Irish Insanity]

I didn't say anything about Tom Brady or the Pats. I posted about Peyton Manning being a cheater and TheRealLynch responded to my post with some crap about Brady. I'm not here to talk about Brady. Someone can start a GOAT thread if they want to talk about him. Like I said, let's stay on topic and talk about that cheater Peyton Manning.

Relax man. I didn't say you did.
You seem to take issue with the fact someone brought Brady's name to the Manning thread. Yet the 2 were linked by multiple Brady/Pats fans before this thread, and by at least one in the context of this topic. I seriously thought it was funny.

 

[NDWorld247]

Relax man. I didn't say you did.
You seem to take issue with the fact someone brought Brady's name to the Manning thread. Yet the 2 were linked by multiple Brady/Pats fans before this thread, and by at least one in the context of this topic. I seriously thought it was funny.

I'm relaxed. Everyone takes issue with Pats fans linking the two stories, but when a Colts fan links the two it's okay? I understand there's been some discussion in this thread about Brady/Pats because people are obsessed with the Patriots dynasty and greatest QB of all-time, but I didn't bring them up. My comment was about Manning and Manning only.

So, moving on...Now that Manning has been exposed as a cheater, does anyone think this jeopardizes his HOF chances? It's not unreasonable to believe he's been cheating his whole career. Also, how rampant was this cheating throughout the Colts organization? We could be looking at vacating wins, loss of draft picks and millions in fines when all is said and done.

 

[Irish Insanity]

I'm relaxed. Everyone takes issue with Pats fans linking the two stories, but when a Colts fan links the two it's okay? I understand there's been some discussion in this thread about Brady/Pats because people are obsessed with the Patriots dynasty and greatest QB of all-time, but I didn't bring them up. My comment was about Manning and Manning only.

So, moving on...Now that Manning has been exposed as a cheater, does anyone think this jeopardizes his HOF chances? It's not unreasonable to believe he's been cheating his whole career. Also, how rampant was this cheating throughout the Colts organization? We could be looking at vacating wins, loss of draft picks and millions in fines when all is said and done.

I don't think they should be linked at all. And I'm not a 'fan' of either, so I have no dog in the race. As far as discussing both stories in the same breath, I can completely understand that.
I have one simple question. If Manning is a cheater because of 6 degrees of separation linked him to possible cheating, do you consider Brady a cheater for the multiple tings he and the Pats have been linked to and proven to have done?

 

[NDWorld247]

I don't think they should be linked at all. And I'm not a 'fan' of either, so I have no dog in the race. As far as discussing both stories in the same breath, I can completely understand that.
I have one simple question. If Manning is a cheater because of 6 degrees of separation linked him to possible cheating, do you consider Brady a cheater for the multiple tings he and the Pats have been linked to and proven to have done?

I'm not going to take the bait. Let's keep this about Manning's cheating.

As a fan of the game, I'm really disappointed and liken this to the Bonds situation. Manning was naturally one of the best of his era. He didn't need to cheat. Some guys just let their egos get the best of them and can't help themselves.

 

[irishfan]

This is really not hard, guys...
1. There are plausible reasons that his wife would be taking HGH.
2. There is no evidence whatsoever that Peyton Manning took HGH.
3A. It's not reasonable to suggest that his wife must divulge her medical history to "prove" why she was getting shipped HGH.
3B. It's impossible to prove a negative, so even if his wife divulged why she was receiving HGH you would still have people insinuating that he was taking what was sent to her.

The above is why no one besides Pats fans gives a single fuck about this story. Because it isn't a story... it's factless speculation and insinuation.

There's nothing factless about the Peyton part of the documentary. His wife was shipped HGH.

And, Pats fans only care about the media here. Personally, I think it's easy to draw comparisons to this and Deflategate. Brady/Manning have been linked their whole careers. Peyton was accused of PED use. Goodell equated deflating footballs to taking PEDs. I'm not exactly sure why it's such an outrage to compare the two situations. Espcially from a media reaction standpoint.

ESPN sadly is the worldwide leader for the foreseeable future, and it's pretty easy to see why their initial reactions to Deflategate/HGH would annoy people. These aren't cherry-picked reactions. It's their first analysis after the Brady press conference and after Peyton's denial.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">REMINDER: How the media's treated <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/DeflateGate?src=hash">#DeflateGate</a> versus Manning HGH accusations. <a href="https://t.co/pp5ZpZhe0A">pic.twitter.com/pp5ZpZhe0A</a></p>— Only In Boston (@OnlyInBOS) <a href="https://twitter.com/OnlyInBOS/status/683815711576322049">January 4, 2016</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[IrishLax]

I don't think they should be linked at all. And I'm not a 'fan' of either, so I have no dog in the race. As far as discussing both stories in the same breath, I can completely understand that.
I have one simple question. If Manning is a cheater because of 6 degrees of separation linked him to possible cheating, do you consider Brady a cheater for the multiple tings he and the Pats have been linked to and proven to have done?

Dude, he's obviously trolling. I can't believe you're engaging.