Manning better than Brady?

[Irishbounty28]

Montana vs Marino?

Similar debate in my mind. I always side with the rings.

 

[Irish Houstonian]

Yes.

 

[IrishSteelhead]

Montana vs Marino?

Similar debate in my mind. I always side with the rings.

I liken it more to Montana vs Elway personally, but see your point.

 

[phork]

Brady, just for the updated Superbowl mudhole stomping. It is unfathomable that Eli has more Superbowls than Peyton.

 

[zelezo vlk]

While I don't think that Peyton's Super Bowl is indicative of his abilities...Tom has undoubtedly outperformed him there.

 

[Zwidmanio]

While I don't think that Peyton's Super Bowl is indicative of his abilities...Tom has undoubtedly outperformed him there.

Yeah, my thinking is that for any random game, I could go either way. When it comes to the big games, I'd take Brady in a heartbeat. It's really too bad in a way...Peyton is obviously a great QB and seems like a class act, but seems to fall short more often than not in the big games.

 

[zelezo vlk]

We as fans/over-analyzers put too much stress on the game for his legacy, but it is important to examine everything in a player's career.

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[FightingIrishLover7]

I still don't understand why people put so much weight of a teams success of the qb.
The online didn't show up.
The corners beat the receivers.
What's a man to do?

Stats (career stats) are the best way to judge someone's impact in the league, period.

Makes no sense to weigh everything on one loss in the post season.
Manning is 11 and 12 in the post season now. Seems like a joke, but if you think about it.
Every team (except for the champion) has to lose in the post season.

This means Peyton has 13 playoff seasons (1 year with no losses). He has taken his team to the playoffs 13 freaking times.
As a Colts fan, that is truly incredible. If we would have had about any other qb, there is no way we would have had half the playoff seasons.
Peyton makes everyone better.
And many times, it will require more than one guy to win a game.

 

[zelezo vlk]

But that's the thing, look at his Super Bowl stats, big picture: if the numbers I saw are accurate, he's thrown more picks than touchdowns. It's not everything, but its a pretty big red mark on his record. Perhaps his only one.

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[Huntr]

Dan Marino is a better quarterback than Tom Brady and he has 0 rings.

In fact, Johnny U, Otto Graham, PFM, Dan Marino, Sammy Baugh, Joe Montana, Steve Young all better than Brady.

 

[zelezo vlk]

What makes you say that?

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[GATTACA!]

But that's the thing, look at his Super Bowl stats, big picture: if the numbers I saw are accurate, he's thrown more picks than touchdowns. It's not everything, but its a pretty big red mark on his record. Perhaps his only one.

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He also set the record for most completions in a Super Bowl. Plus one of those picks was on the o line, manning can't help it if he gets blindsided while he's throwing. Also the receiver stood there like a dumbass rather than going up for the ball.

 

[Irish#1]

But that's the thing, look at his Super Bowl stats, big picture: if the numbers I saw are accurate, he's thrown more picks than touchdowns. It's not everything, but its a pretty big red mark on his record. Perhaps his only one.

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I'll give you one pick last night but the other was on the online and the receiver standing there and watching the ball get intercepted instead for fighting for it. As mentioned before, this loss wasn't on Peyton. His O-line took an early vacation. Brady has shown that if you put that kind of pressure on him he does the same thing.

 

[irishfan]

He also set the record for most completions in a Super Bowl. Plus one of those picks was on the o line, manning can't help it if he gets blindsided while he's throwing. Also the receiver stood there like a dumbass rather than going up for the ball.

Easy to set the record for completions when you're getting blown out and are throwing it every play.

He did lead his team to 8 points in the biggest game of the year....

 

[Huntr]

What makes you say that?

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Because it's less of a a function of what they win than how they win. Football is too much of a team sport to ascribe W/L to 1 dude. Winning (and winning rings) is important and Brady is very very good, an all-time great QB. But football is not baseball where every result can be broken down to basically 1 individual's action, despite football fans/media/critics trying to act like it is.

Manning threw for like 5400 yds and 55 TDs this year, but has a bad game against an all-time defense, so now he's not 1 of the top 5 QBs ever (as I heard on the radio this morning)? GTFO.

 

[zelezo vlk]

I don't think I'd call the Seachickens an all time defense...

And yeah I could see him being top five, but no higher than 4/5. He's great, clearly but stats are fairly meaningless if that's all you can put up. Look at the Super Bowl 44 stats too, I didn't consider that defense an all time great and he put up slightly better stats.

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[Huntr]

I don't think I'd call the Seachickens an all time defense..

I think you might be mistaken about that.

JMO, tho'.

 

[zelezo vlk]

And I seriously think you're mistaken if you think Brady is worse than a lot of those quarterbacks listed, but its all opinion I suppose.

You're totally right though, this conversation feels so wrong without discussing with a beer in my hand.

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[Redbar]

Because it's less of a a function of what they win than how they win. Football is too much of a team sport to ascribe W/L to 1 dude. Winning (and winning rings) is important and Brady is very very good, an all-time great QB. But football is not baseball where every result can be broken down to basically 1 individual's action, despite football fans/media/critics trying to act like it is.

Manning threw for like 5400 yds and 55 TDs this year, but has a bad game against an all-time defense, so now he's not 1 of the top 5 QBs ever (as I heard on the radio this morning)? GTFO

This is exactly right! I agree completely.

I don't think I'd call the Seachickens an all time defense...

With the recent changes in the NFL, that make for more dynamic offenses, I would argue that the Seachickens are in fact a very good defense.

And yeah I could see him being top five, but no higher than 4/5. He's great, clearly but stats are fairly meaningless if that's all you can put up. Look at the Super Bowl 44 stats too, I didn't consider that defense an all time great and he put up slightly better stats.

You are not disproving his point that football is unlike other sports where team results can be attributed to one person's stats by citing more stats from one other game. Further, a person's all time greatness and impact on a sport he has played in for 16 years shouldn't be analyzed through the stats from two games.

I do think this kind of noise and insistence that you can't be in the conversation of greatness unless your team wins it all a couple of times does and did mess with Peyton's head and became an obstacle from him playing loose and settling into the game. He shoulders too much, because he almost always had to. I am not apologizing for Peyton, he certainly doesn't need me to do that, I'm just trying to analyze the dynamic.

 

[Irishnuke]

Easy to set the record for completions when you're getting blown out and are throwing it every play.

He did lead his team to 8 points in the biggest game of the year....

And he beat your team and your idol to get there. Don't forget that.

His receivers couldn't get open and his OL couldn't block for Moreno and Ball. He had to throw it that many times. He did throw a poor pass that resulted in a pick the first time. Second pick his arm got hit and even still, if Moreno didn't just stand there like a dipshit it wouldn't have been a pick. Manning didn't play great but putting this loss all on him is just dumb.

 

[IrishJayhawk]

And he beat your team and your idol to get there. Don't forget that.

His receivers couldn't get open and his OL couldn't block for Moreno and Ball. He had to throw it that many times. He did throw a poor pass that resulted in a pick the first time. Second pick his arm got hit and even still, if Moreno didn't just stand there like a dipshit it wouldn't have been a pick. Manning didn't play great but putting this loss all on him is just dumb.

It wasn't on him solely. That's certain. And he was amazing in the AFC Championship game.

But like it or not, this game will be part of his legacy. It's one more playoff loss for his team that was favored. Now, it's obvious that they shouldn't have been favored. Seattle is just too fast, too aggressive, and too good.

It's too bad. I was really rooting for him last night.

 

[phork]

Its certainly not all on him for sure, however, he made a lot of bad decisions leading to incompletions while missing open receivers.

 

[irishfan]

And he beat your team and your idol to get there. Don't forget that.

His receivers couldn't get open and his OL couldn't block for Moreno and Ball. He had to throw it that many times. He did throw a poor pass that resulted in a pick the first time. Second pick his arm got hit and even still, if Moreno didn't just stand there like a dipshit it wouldn't have been a pick. Manning didn't play great but putting this loss all on him is just dumb.

Oh, I'm well aware Peyton beat the Pats don't worry. The fact that he moved the ball with such ease against New England still annoys me.

However, 8 points is 8 points. In the Super Bowl. Its not like he got out-scored, they just didn't show up on offense. Its certainly not all Peyton's fault, but he's got all the weapons in the world around him and still only managed 8 points.

In all seriousness, the Broncos are solely built to out-score you, much like the Pats were from 2007-2012. I don't think its too shocking that when they went up against a team with great pass rushers (like pretty much every Pats post-season loss from 2007-2012), that they didn't have much of a chance. They have no real power run game (again like the Pats or even the Saints), and you pretty much need fortuitous scheduling to get far in the playoffs with a team built that way.

 

[zelezo vlk]

I'm shocked they made it to the Super Bowl tbh. That team reminded me more of the 2011-12 GB Packers than anybody else. I don't really know what we're arguing about either if we're all in agreement that he's a top 5 QB...

 

[ND NYC]

one thing is for sure, when any either of the manning brothers' games are "off"...for whatever reason....it is ugly.

random thought: can you give payton credit for all the wins he has accumulated in his career without also giving him blame for the losses?

cant have it both ways....