Know Your Rights

[In Lou I Trust]

This kid's a Fu*king tool. IIRC, this dip$hit has another video like this. He clearly is only trying to bait cops into these situations. The level of disrespect in this video is disgusting. Even if the cop is in the wrong he's not being a dick about it; he's actually being very friendly and respectful. Just comply and move along... simple as that. It's a$$holes like this that continue to make America look bad. I never say this and it just sounds like internet tough guy talk but I'd love to bump into this prick one day.

 

[nlroma1o]

I have a cousin who is a police officer and 2 of my Dads close childhood friends, who I call Uncles, are now retired NYPD. All three of them have told me about how many d bags are in law enforcement. But it doesn't mean you should go out and stage something like this kid did.

I personally would never have the balls to do this becuase I would fear that I would get one of those d bag cops in this situation, and I would end up getting shot myself. Whats the point then?

 

[autry_denson]

This is awesome -- dude completely schools cop on search & seizure and gun rights. It's not easy to stand up to cops, even when you're in the right.

curious if the original poster is equally outraged about stop, question, and frisk activity in high-poverty communities? in NYC the most common reason for a stop, by a wide margin and as documented by the officers, is 'furtive movement'. in some census tracts every kid is stopped, on average, about once every other month.
Stop and Frisk Map (NYC) |

 

[PraetorianND]

How do you know it wasn't Portland in Arkansas, Colorado, Connecticut, Florida, Indiana, Kansas, Maine, Michigan, Tennessee, or Texas?

You missed my point that some cities/municipalities have gun laws that people need to follow.

Did I miss something? Was he walking around with gun-in-hand or waving it around?

In the video you clearly hear the cop say that they have had reports of a man carrying a loaded gun. Regardless of whether or not he was "waiving it around" that constitutes more 9-1-1 calls like I said in my post.

The Bill or Rights is hysteria now?

There is a reason they call people like this "gun nuts."

Whatever you want? Hardly.

No kidding.

Well that would be illegal sooooo.....

And if he's in Portland, OR so is this. My point is that if he wants to make real change he SHOULD do something illegal so he would be convicted of a crime, he can appeal it, then he can take it to the SOTUS. Brandishing his knowledge of case law to 3 local cops and a handful of people on Youtube is childish and done for his own pleasure/ego. It's also a waste of everyones' time.

A lot of what cops do is a waste of time and energy you know.

A lot of what cops do is super useful and I'm grateful that they're there. I'm sure you'd rather just protect yourself and all, but I'm glad there are cops. Maybe that's because I'm not an asswhipe to them when they are just trying to do their jobs.

Then they should act like it.

You obviously don't know many cops. You can take your preconceived notions about every person in the world and throw them out because not all cops are that way. These cops are acting totally reasonably (by 99% of America's standards).

You should add "the same as the rest of us" on that last sentence too. Cops aren't the only ones who fear those things.

This explains all the 9-1-1 calls I referred to earlier. Also explains why these cops are trying to figure out his name (mental history, arrest history, etc) to see if he's a danger to people. Hell maybe there is a school nearby and they are freaked he's going to walk over there and starting shooting. This is just asinine.

Little pay?! They have terrific pensions and for the education needed to become a cop the pay is fine.

Some of them have terrific pensions, yes. But these guys have an extremely stressful job. In my opinion they don't get paid enough for the bullshit they have to put up with. This looks like a fun game to you, but in reality these cops were probably freaked the hell out. Because while this guy was seemingly benign exercising his rights, these cops' blood pressure was probably through the roof just hoping he didn't lose it and start shooting. What seems reasonable in this video is that this is an unusual circumstance and cause for concern (however constitutional). Even though the 2nd amendment says something about the right to bear arms that doesn't mean it isn't stressful and dangerous for civilians and officers alike when people are carrying guns around (especially considering recent history of mass shootings).

Dangerous situations? Most cops don't go near any danger. People know that if you kill a cop, you're dead. All of the cops outside of the ghetto deal with as much danger as the rest of us, and we don't all have great pensions.

Go on a ride along. You'll find that that's not true.

Maybe we should show some respect to jobs that are actually more dangerous. Like loggers, pilots, fishers, iron workers, garbage collectors, farmers, roofers, electric line operators, truck drivers, miners, construction workers, warehouse workers, industrial machinery maintainers, and taxi cab drivers. Cops are just like the rest of us, indeed.

Did I disrespect any of those professions?

The "no respect" thing really gets me. There are thousands of cops out there fighting the good fight against real crime, and are near the top of my list for respect. But I'd bet it's a 25:1 ratio for the cops who push paper in the suburbs, issue traffic tickets, and bust college kids for drinking or smoking some weed. Those people are at the very bottom of my list of respect

You are sitting here defending your right to bear arms via the 2nd amendment and then you tell me that cops enforcing other laws isn't real? How can you simultaneously use the law to defend one argument while calling it a waste in the other? What a joke.

I don't recall movements of respect for those other hazardous jobs I listed. I have seen them for cops.

Those jobs aren't generally disrespected. **** it, let's start respecting all of those professions more, I'm with you.

Firemen are a different story, I've never met a fireman who was an ******* and wanted you to know that "he had the power."

In conclusion, **** the police.

Cool bro.

 

[Irish Houstonian]

curious if the original poster is equally outraged about stop, question, and frisk activity in high-poverty communities? in NYC the most common reason for a stop, by a wide margin and as documented by the officers, is 'furtive movement'. in some census tracts every kid is stopped, on average, about once every other month.
Stop and Frisk Map (NYC) |

I don't think I have a lot of "outrage" to "equal", but since you're asking I would be just as pleased if someone in poverty exercised their rights in this manner as well.

 

[PraetorianND]

I think it's Portland, Maine.

Thanks for clearing that up! Ya, really my point is that there are lots of gun laws out there, many of which the citizens in that area don't really know. In many cases, the law enforcement doesn't know them either because they are super obscure or rarely enforced.

While I think that District of Columbia v. Heller should have cleaned out most gun bans and many other types of laws restricting various aspects of gun ownership, it really hasn't done that. So despite the common belief in the blanket protection granted by the 2nd amendment, that protection really doesn't exist. That's why I suggested walking into a post office with a gun, the 2nd amendment doesn't say anything about that so why are people so afraid of going into a post office with a gun? Because it's illegal? Not according to the 2nd amendment though right? If he really wanted to make a constitutional statement he would violate a seemingly unconstitutional law and defend himself with a 2nd Amendment argument rather than strut around with a gun on his hip just for the chance of a confrontation with a cop.

 

[jerboski]

Ha Ha, let me first say I am a cop in Denver so I obviously might come off a little biased but in no way did this kid school anyone. First of all, if the police officer was called about a man walking around with a gun, alarming other citizens then it is tactically and reasonable for the officer to approach the suspect/suspicious person with his gun out and patting this person down for the officers protection so when this kid says "You pointed a loaded gun at me just so you know" the officer should have said "Your right I did for my protection and the protection of this community". Secondly, the officer was dispatched to the scene, many cities have gun laws and concealed weapons laws, no city allows you to walk around flaunting a pistol on the street so the officer should have taken the kids gun until he verified that the gun actually belonged to this kid and that this kid had the proper qualifications to be carrying a pistol. This kid was nothing more than a little *** trying to stir up a police officer dispatched doing his job. Spare me with the **** the police comments, Hate us til you need us.

 

[IrishLax]

My take:

-I'd love to know the circumstances of the stop and at what point the camera got flipped on.
-I thought the cops acted completely reasonable. They responded to a call about a suspicious person carrying a gun in public. You HAVE to respond to that... and immediately.
-If the guy was open carrying to intentionally provoke the cops then he is a douche.
-If the guy was open carrying for any other reason and was being harassed then good for him. I say this because I've heard many a first hand account from friends or friends of friends where cops play really fast and loose with the law/your rights to put you in hot water. Never happened to me... but I've heard stories that make you realize how little cops are on the "up and up" sometimes.

 

[Grahambo]

My take:

-I'd love to know the circumstances of the stop and at what point the camera got flipped on.
-I thought the cops acted completely reasonable. They responded to a call about a suspicious person carrying a gun in public. You HAVE to respond to that... and immediately.
-If the guy was open carrying to intentionally provoke the cops then he is a douche.
-If the guy was open carrying for any other reason and was being harassed then good for him. I say this because I've heard many a first hand account from friends or friends of friends where cops play really fast and loose with the law/your rights to put you in hot water. Never happened to me... but I've heard stories that make you realize how little cops are on the "up and up" sometimes.

We get bulletins about people like him who purposely go around and provoke police and film it. I believe in the beginning, before the filming, it says the name of the organization.

 

[yankeehater]

I once asked a childhood friend whose is a police officer out here in Cali why all of their squad cars do not have dash cans. His answer was that they would never vote them in because 99% of the time the video would be used against them.....wonder why!

Our other buddy who is an attorney said that it is the policeman's word versus yours and they always win! That is waaayyyy too much power. Whether you like the way this kid handled this situation or not, one can surmise the situation probably turns out differently if he is not video taping it.

 

[jerboski]

What baffles me is how some of you defend this kid like he did some great thing when all he really is doing is being a nuassiance. Portland isnt the safest place in the world by a large margin and I am more than certain that the cops there have better things to do than some kid trying to make a video at the cops expense

 

[autry_denson]

I don't think I have a lot of "outrage" to "equal", but since you're asking I would be just as pleased if someone in poverty exercised their rights in this manner as well.

fair enough, thanks for the response.

i raise the question b/c i think it's somewhat humorous when the righteous indignation about oppression or denial of basic rights by the police or the criminal justice system comes from individuals who are the least likely to be targeted by the police or the criminal justice system. the cop in this video was remarkably patient and reasonable - if the guy in this video was in a different neighborhood and looked and spoke differently (I'm inferring from his voice what he looks like), he would have been in tough shape by the end of the video. check out this link if you want evidence (note: it's hard to watch). The Hunted and the Hated: An Inside Look at the NYPD's Stop-and-Frisk Policy - YouTube

I actually stand in the middle on this issue. cops have an extremely difficult task when they try to navigate interactions with potentially violent civilians, and we have enough evidence to tell us with pretty good confidence that the more officers are on the street the better they do in reducing crime. evidence on the aggressive use of stop, question, frisk activity and its effects on crime is virtually non-existent, unfortunately. but then we have these gross violations of rights that are visible in the link above.

it's a tough issue - my one conclusion is that if you're strongly against aggressive policing tactics as applied to white gun owners, you should also be strongly against aggressive policing in nonwhite communities because the problem is exponentially more severe.

 

[Ndaccountant]

Ha Ha, let me first say I am a cop in Denver so I obviously might come off a little biased but in no way did this kid school anyone. First of all, if the police officer was called about a man walking around with a gun, alarming other citizens then it is tactically and reasonable for the officer to approach the suspect/suspicious person with his gun out and patting this person down for the officers protection so when this kid says "You pointed a loaded gun at me just so you know" the officer should have said "Your right I did for my protection and the protection of this community". Secondly, the officer was dispatched to the scene, many cities have gun laws and concealed weapons laws, no city allows you to walk around flaunting a pistol on the street so the officer should have taken the kids gun until he verified that the gun actually belonged to this kid and that this kid had the proper qualifications to be carrying a pistol. This kid was nothing more than a little *** trying to stir up a police officer dispatched doing his job. Spare me with the **** the police comments, Hate us til you need us.

+1 and reps.

I have to laugh at comments that police outside the ghetto don't do anything except bother kids drinking, writing tickets and hounding people. My wife's best friend's husband is a PO in a pretty upper middle class suburb. The amount of drugs they are tracking and busting on a weekly basis is eye opening. That **** is dangerous and most of it happens outside the public's view. If you live in an area that is relatively drug free, instead of cursing the cops and trying to belittle them, we should be thanking them. Hopefully you never need their help, but when that day comes, I know they will be there when I am in danger.

 

[In Lou I Trust]

That's a pretty ugly video, autry.

 

[PraetorianND]

I once asked a childhood friend whose is a police officer out here in Cali why all of their squad cars do not have dash cans. His answer was that they would never vote them in because 99% of the time the video would be used against them.....wonder why!

Our other buddy who is an attorney said that it is the policeman's word versus yours and they always win! That is waaayyyy too much power. Whether you like the way this kid handled this situation or not, one can surmise the situation probably turns out differently if he is not video taping it.

I worked for a DA in California and I can tell you that the officer doesn't always win even when it is his word versus yours. I saw so many cases dismissed for BS. For example, 4th amendment violations that WERE NOT 4th amendment violations. Lots of other stuff too.

Guy gets pulled over for speeding, cop looks in the window and there is a pipe lying on the floor of the car and he can see it without opening the door or doing anything, judge throws it out and calls it a 4th amendment violation.

Another guy carrying a rifle with the barrel sawed off to about 4 inches has it stuffed in his waste band. Cop can SEE the butt stock sticking out, he detains him and searches him, judge throws it out.

Another one was a drug sting, guy hands drug dealer folded money. Public defender argues there was no way the cop could have known it was money from his vantage point from 50 yards away in a window with binoculars, judge agrees and throws it out (three other officers were eye witnesses).

Another one an officer was in pursuit of a drug dealer, she WATCHES the guy throw a bunch of rocks (crack) under a car as he runs past it, they later go collect it, judge throws it out and says there is no way they could know that it was his.

Officer does a field test on some crack (cocaine base). Field test shows a positive test for cocaine. Public defender attacks the credibility of the officer (20 year vet) and asks how the chemical process works to show that this was indeed cocaine and not a false positive. Obviously he's not a chemist and knows the procedure the basic chemical reaction but not the nitty gritty chemical reaction. Judge throws it out.

PS all of these defendants had priors (in some cases a dozen or more). The guy who was accused of throwing the crack under the car had 10 priors for drugs. None of them were violent so he never spent time in jail (some were while he was a minor so we couldn't bring them up).

Just a few examples.

 

[Irish Houstonian]

To me, the point of the video is not to be anti-cop per se, or pro-gun. In fact, the cop seems pretty cool about the whole situtation, contra many others.

The point was that this guy stood up to the cops when he knew he was right. And it worked. How many of us would have just given our name, license, etc., out of fear that the cop might arrest us for no reason? Most, if not all of us. And that's sad. We should never be afraid to exercise our Constitutional rights.

A cop can't stop you on the street at all unless there is a reasonable, articulable suspicion that you are actively in the process of committing a crime. Not because you "fit the description" or you "look suspicous" or because they've "been dispatched".

I think if citizens start knowing (and articulating) their rights more, maybe the abusive cops wouldn't walk all over people so much.

 

[jerboski]

To me, the point of the video is not to be anti-cop per se, or pro-gun. In fact, the cop seems pretty cool about the whole situtation, contra many others.

The point was that this guy stood up to the cops when he knew he was right. And it worked. How many of us would have just given our name, license, etc., out of fear that the cop might arrest us for no reason? Most, if not all of us. And that's sad. We should never be afraid to exercise our Constitutional rights.

A cop can't stop you on the street at all unless there is a reasonable, articulable suspicion that you are actively in the process of committing a crime. Not because you "fit the description" or you "look suspicous" or because they've "been dispatched".

I think if citizens start knowing (and articulating) their rights more, maybe the abusive cops wouldn't walk all over people so much.

Your right when you say we cant stop or hold anyone without PC or reasonable suspicion however a cop can contact anyone at anytime and of course a contact meaning the person can leave at any time. A cop may ask for drivers license and name and date of birth during these contacts, now for this particular situation a cop would have every right to stop this kid if the officer had been dispatched and informed that witnesses had seen him waving or displaying the gun in public which it sounds like he did or how else would the officer even know he had a gun?????????

 

[jerboski]

+1 and reps.

I have to laugh at comments that police outside the ghetto don't do anything except bother kids drinking, writing tickets and hounding people. My wife's best friend's husband is a PO in a pretty upper middle class suburb. The amount of drugs they are tracking and busting on a weekly basis is eye opening. That **** is dangerous and most of it happens outside the public's view. If you live in an area that is relatively drug free, instead of cursing the cops and trying to belittle them, we should be thanking them. Hopefully you never need their help, but when that day comes, I know they will be there when I am in danger.

Thanks for the support, my friend.

 

[PraetorianND]

To me, the point of the video is not to be anti-cop per se, or pro-gun. In fact, the cop seems pretty cool about the whole situtation, contra many others.

The point was that this guy stood up to the cops when he knew he was right. And it worked. How many of us would have just given our name, license, etc., out of fear that the cop might arrest us for no reason? Most, if not all of us. And that's sad. We should never be afraid to exercise our Constitutional rights.

A cop can't stop you on the street at all unless there is a reasonable, articulable suspicion that you are actively in the process of committing a crime. Not because you "fit the description" or you "look suspicous" or because they've "been dispatched".

I think if citizens start knowing (and articulating) their rights more, maybe the abusive cops wouldn't walk all over people so much.

I agree with this 100%. I also agree that we should have the right to bear arms. I also think we should have far more personal liberties than we have now. I also believe in Federalism; If Seattle and Colorado want to make pot legal, go for it. Don't like it? Move to a state where more people think like you do. I also don't think the federal government should overreach and use the commerce clause to make laws for everything. I also believe the SOTUS's rulings should impact state and local law (there shouldn't be gun bans after most current ruling).

However, I don't think people should take any of the above and turn it into a personal crusade against cops. Cops aren't making laws, they are just doing their best to enforce them. They were being pretty damn cool to a guy who was being a complete clown. I'm sure people called the cops because they are worried parents or worried citizens, totally normal. Totally normal (and expected) for the cop to come talk to the guy about what was going on. Why he was carrying a gun. No, this guy doesn't have to respond legally. Yes this guy SHOULD respond because we live in a normal freaking society where a logical person should understand that carrying a gun around on their hip freaks people out unnecessarily.

 

[In Lou I Trust]

Your right when you say we cant stop or hold anyone without PC or reasonable suspicion however a cop can contact anyone at anytime and of course a contact meaning the person can leave at any time. A cop may ask for drivers license and name and date of birth during these contacts, now for this particular situation a cop would have every right to stop this kid if the officer had been dispatched and informed that witnesses had seen him waving or displaying the gun in public which it sounds like he did or how else would the officer even know he had a gun?????????

He was openly carrying which, I believe, is legal in Maine.

 

[jerboski]

He was openly carrying which, I believe, is legal in Maine.

I wasnt aware of Maine's state law to openly carry, I would argue this puts the cop in an unwinnable situation. He must respond to the call and investigate it due to the nature however there is nothing to enforce. I am pro gun but I have a hard time believing that people should be walking around with AR-15's out in public.

 

[Irish Houstonian]

Your right when you say we cant stop or hold anyone without PC or reasonable suspicion however a cop can contact anyone at anytime and of course a contact meaning the person can leave at any time. A cop may ask for drivers license and name and date of birth during these contacts, now for this particular situation a cop would have every right to stop this kid if the officer had been dispatched and informed that witnesses had seen him waving or displaying the gun in public which it sounds like he did or how else would the officer even know he had a gun?????????

(1) Cops don't have more "rights" by virtue of being cops. They have duties. Big difference in the discourse.

(2) A call like that from a witness would have created reasonable suspicion of a crime, which by the cop's own admission wasn't present. The witnesses said he "had a gun", which by Sup Ct. precedent isn't suficient to stop someone.

 

[Grahambo]

This is a pretty good, short read about stop and frisk. The video is being blown out of proportion and the student didn't school anybody. If anything, he showed how much of a douche he is. Word to the wise: don't act like a douche especially if a cop is being respectful. You just raise the suspicion bar and don't do yourself any favors.

http://www.mml.org/insurance/shared/publications/leaf_newsletter/2011_08.pdf

 

[gkIrish]

Stumbled upon the Rees and Calabrese thread somehow

 

[autry_denson]

That's a pretty ugly video, autry.

yes, what happened to the kid is ugly. that's the point - if you want to talk about individual rights relative to law enforcement then we should see the ugly side of police/civilian interactions as well. this video is an extreme example of such interactions and is not representative, but eye-opening to see for those of us (like me) who don't commonly have to worry about whether we (or our kids) are going to be subject to such treatment.

 

[jerboski]

(1) Cops don't have more "rights" by virtue of being cops. They have duties. Big difference in the discourse.

(2) A call like that from a witness would have created reasonable suspicion of a crime, which by the cop's own admission wasn't present. The witnesses said he "had a gun", which by Sup Ct. precedent isn't suficient to stop someone.

1.) Arguing apples and oranges, "rights" or "duties" is irrelevant, the point is that cops have been afforded grounds by the state because of their position to "stop" people and also have "right" or "duties" to contact people

2.) In another article, in reference to this same kid, there is also a report that over 20 people called in on this individual which more than merits a "stop" and the officer never infringed on his rights in fact the officer was probably too leniant. I have been an officer for 7 plus years and I am also a field training officer and I can guarantee you that I would have been more firm with this kid about "stops" and "providing identifying information" to police officers doing there job. The only issue is Maine allows open carrying, most states do not so if he pulled that in Denver that wouldnt have flyed and he certainly would have had to give his name and date of birth or risk being charged with obstruction.

 

[IrishLax]

yes, what happened to the kid is ugly. that's the point - if you want to talk about individual rights relative to law enforcement then we should see the ugly side of police/civilian interactions as well. this video is an extreme example of such interactions and is not representative, but eye-opening to see for those of us (like me) who don't commonly have to worry about whether we (or our kids) are going to be subject to such treatment.

Autry, any idea what happened to the officers he recorded? Did they receive any kind of disciplinary action?

 

[jerboski]

Wouldn't he have been arrested if he were breaking any law. This is clearly a moot point.



Did he do anything illegal?



I think you're assuming a lot here.



It's really not hard to find a myriad of instances online showing cases of cops abusing their position. There are plenty of find cops, I don't disagree with that.

I know plenty of cops. Probably a dozen or so. Good ones and dipshits there for the pensions while solely wielding a radar gun.



"Maybe" is the key word, and a horrible cause for search and/or seizure, which the courts have said and this guy repeated.



Tens of millions of people have stressful jobs. From the cops I know, not many of their jobs are actually that stressful. I'm make the claim that the vast majority of rural and suburban cops have it made in the shade.

But you know I agree with you, and I'd definitely want the cops to do 99% of what they did. Which, thankfully, was totally legal.



I've been on 5ish in my life. I've seen two different types of cops and, again, I respect he hell out of one side and general despise the other.

I was once jumped on campus at the University of Toledo on my 20th birthday and got to see cops come flying down the road at 60mph to my assistance (It's funny you mention the "defend yourself" bit, because I did ) they threw the guy in the cars for processing and I got to fill our reports and whatnot. They asked what I was doing there (on campus...?) and I simply told him it was my 20th birthday and I was walking to an off-campus party. To my surprise, they wished me happy birthday and said "it's a bit of a hike back..." and drove me to the party full of underage drinking and dropped me off! (By the way, COOLEST entrance ever)

I've also talked with cops who are employed by the state to solely go around to college towns and launch raids to catch underage drinking. I've spoken with judges who sometimes have a shift to keep their phones near them because they are "on call" on the weekend for when cops will find a house, call the judge for an immediate warrant, and bust the place. I've met cops who know full well they they ruin people's lives when the bust people for weed. It's disgusting. I don't know how you can't tell the difference.

Ohio State has actually had to lobby to get the neighborhood east of campus put in their jurisdiction do they can keep students away from Columbus cops. This fall Columbus cops issued over $80,000 in fines to students in JAY WALKING TICKETS, in one weekend! Under the new agreement, Columbus has shifted authority to Ohio State cops, who are incredibly respectful of students and handle things appropriately.

I've met cops who could care less about speeding tickets and don't issue them because they work in the poorest part of Toledo and fight real crime. Those guys do have a very dangerous job that does a great service for society. Others simply don't.

I certainly have the right to an opinion that the majority of cops are little more than overweight radar gun wielders with a great pension. To those who fight the good fight,



...aren't you doing the same thing?

If you can't see the huge difference, there's no point for me to type it out.



People in those professions have always respected me. I don't have a 100% favorability rate with cops, much much less than that.

You accuse him of assuming way too much however most of your answers about law enforcement are your ASSUMPTIONS and couldnt be farther than the truth.

 

[PraetorianND]

Wouldn't he have been arrested if he were breaking any law. This is clearly a moot point.

Sigh. I'm not going to explain again.

Did he do anything illegal?

You don't have to do illegal stuff for people to call 9-1-1. If the guy was INTENTIONALLY trying to provoke a confrontation with police so he could spout of his knowledge of case law, then he sucks.

I think you're assuming a lot here.

I guess... Why does every single city in the freaking world have cops then?

It's really not hard to find a myriad of instances online showing cases of cops abusing their position. There are plenty of find cops, I don't disagree with that.

I know plenty of cops. Probably a dozen or so. Good ones and dipshits there for the pensions while solely wielding a radar gun.

There are also a million instances of cops doing good things. Like when I got in a car accident the other week in OC and the cop was the most helpful guy ever, drove me home, etc. Super nice guy, all the while looking over his shoulder for a sicko who might try to shoot him for no reason (Chris Dorner). There are dipshits in all professions. Many would argue that our President is one of them. Saying all Presidents are dipshits is stupid. Hence "**** the police" being stupid.

"Maybe" is the key word, and a horrible cause for search and/or seizure, which the courts have said and this guy repeated.

If my kid's school was nearby you bet your *** I would have called the cops on this guy and so would you. If you say you wouldn't you're either a crappy parent, don't have kids, and/or an idiot. I never said that the search and seizure was legal (unless it's in Portland, OR which we decided it wasn't). I said that the guy walking down the street open carrying is a logical reason to call 911 considering national events and perception of safety. If you disagree, well then, ok.

Tens of millions of people have stressful jobs. From the cops I know, not many of their jobs are actually that stressful. I'm make the claim that the vast majority of rural and suburban cops have it made in the shade.

I guess. Except for the fact that every time you pull somebody over there is a chance that the guy might shoot you in the face when you walk up to their window. Except for the fact that people illogically hate you when you are trying to protect them. Except that you are more heavily scrutinized, persecuted, and judged than almost any profession in the world. Obviously there are some places where being a cop is easier than others. But Newtown was an affluent white suburb. Crazy stuff happens everywhere.

But you know I agree with you, and I'd definitely want the cops to do 99% of what they did. Which, thankfully, was totally legal.



I've been on 5ish in my life. I've seen two different types of cops and, again, I respect he hell out of one side and general despise the other.

I was once jumped on campus at the University of Toledo on my 20th birthday and got to see cops come flying down the road at 60mph to my assistance (It's funny you mention the "defend yourself" bit, because I did ) they threw the guy in the cars for processing and I got to fill our reports and whatnot. They asked what I was doing there (on campus...?) and I simply told him it was my 20th birthday and I was walking to an off-campus party. To my surprise, they wished me happy birthday and said "it's a bit of a hike back..." and drove me to the party full of underage drinking and dropped me off! (By the way, COOLEST entrance ever)

I've also talked with cops who are employed by the state to solely go around to college towns and launch raids to catch underage drinking. I've spoken with judges who sometimes have a shift to keep their phones near them because they are "on call" on the weekend for when cops will find a house, call the judge for an immediate warrant, and bust the place. I've met cops who know full well they they ruin people's lives when the bust people for weed. It's disgusting. I don't know how you can't tell the difference.

Ohio State has actually had to lobby to get the neighborhood east of campus put in their jurisdiction do they can keep students away from Columbus cops. This fall Columbus cops issued over $80,000 in fines to students in JAY WALKING TICKETS, in one weekend! Under the new agreement, Columbus has shifted authority to Ohio State cops, who are incredibly respectful of students and handle things appropriately.

I've met cops who could care less about speeding tickets and don't issue them because they work in the poorest part of Toledo and fight real crime. Those guys do have a very dangerous job that does a great service for society. Others simply don't.

I certainly have the right to an opinion that the majority of cops are little more than overweight radar gun wielders with a great pension. To those who fight the good fight,

Glad you were ok. So quick question, what's your suggestion? Get rid of cops in low crime areas? I don't get it. Have them stop writing speeding tickets? Busting kids for weed is fine. Why shouldn't they enforce marijuana laws? Because you don't like them? As a parent, I don't want my kid smoking weed. If he got pinched for doing so I would be pissed.... at him.

...aren't you doing the same thing?

If you can't see the huge difference, there's no point for me to type it out.

I have said multiple times that I think most gun control laws violate the 2nd amendment and the SCOTUS's interpretation of it. I am NOT doing the same thing. I'm defending police and trying to explain how difficult their jobs are.... I'm not making a legal argument that they were within the law by detaining him and taking his pistol (again unless he was in Portland, OR which we determined he was not). I'm saying the guy is an idiot and is giving these cops **** because he's a clown.

People in those professions have always respected me. I don't have a 100% favorability rate with cops, much much less than that.

 

[jerboski]

Police Vs Vietman Veteran [Police Shootout 1998 footage] - YouTube

here is a link to a youtube video about a tragic ending, this video is raw so be prepared but these are the type of videos officers watch during the academy and trainings so anytime a person is possessing a weapon and acting "unreasonable or confrontational" it raises officers concern. I am not implying this kid is nuts like this guy in the video but I am saying a kid walking around with a weapon, legal or not, is going to illicite a strong response from the officer in regards to their safety hence the reason the gun was taken away and the officer was trying to get the kids information.