Judgement Day for USC

[IrishLax]

Two 'Troy is burning' posts back to back. For those that are not aware, USC will know by the end of today whether their punishment will be reduced or upheld. Basically, their argument is that they accept that they screwed up, but based on comparable cases they were punished too harshly. Cam Newton and Ohio State very well may come to their rescue, because compared to the NCAA on those cases, they really did drop the hammer on USC.

It is my belief that because their old AD was fired and Pat Haden hasn't been acting like an arrogant douche, they very well may see their punishment reduced. They were punished so hard in the first place because of their elitist attitude combined with institutional stone walling of the NCAA. Now that they have gone "me aculpa," it would be reasonable to surmise that it may get reduced to 5 schollies a year or that the bowl ban might be reduced or both.

It is expected by most close to the situation that the punishment will not be reduced. It is important to remember that no new evidence can be introduced in appeal... which is odd, but a true.

 

[Cali_domer]

We will know by the end of today?

 

[IrishLax]

We will know by the end of today?

Yes, the hearing concludes today (1/22). It is my understanding we will know at the end whether the penalties stand.

 

[Cali_domer]

I think they will reduce the sanctions.

 

[Irishcop]

I hope the ncaa does not reduce the sanctions, but with the little to no action taken by the ncaa dealing with Ohio State and Cam Newton, USC will end up getting a slap on the wrist.

 

[NewEnglandGuy]

NCAA to hear USC's appeal Saturday - latimes.com

USC will try to get its bowl ban and scholarship cuts reduced, but since 2008 only one in 11 NCAA appeals has been successful.

I would put $100 on Black 22 with those odds...

USC probably won't learn its fate for at least a month because the appeals committee typically renders a decision four to six weeks after a hearing.

That could be problematic for Kiffin, who is putting together a recruiting class without knowing exactly how many scholarships he has to offer. With NCAA penalties stayed while on appeal, Kiffin appears to be moving toward signing 20 players. High school players can begin signing letters of intent Feb. 2.

Try 25+! Anyway this affects them on NSD? If they lose then at some point in February they have to be at 70 or less scholarships correct?

 

[PLACforever]

NCAA to hear USC's appeal Saturday - latimes.com



I would put $100 on Black 22 with those odds...



Try 25+! Anyway this affects them on NSD? If they lose then at some point in February they have to be at 70 or less scholarships correct?

Where's the vBookie @?

 

[kmoose]

Cam Newton and Ohio State very well may come to their rescue, because compared to the NCAA on those cases, they really did drop the hammer on USC.

Don't buy into the idiot-speak on sports talk radio. The Cam Newton and Ohio State situations are nowhere near the seriousness of what happened at USC.

At Ohio State, you had some players who sold their own personal property, and benefitted financially. It was against the rules, and the players deserved to be punished. My personaly opinion is that the suspensions should not have been delayed, but should have started immediately. But, really........ is it really that egregious, that the NCAA decided not to pull them from a HUGE bowl game? I mean, you could make the argument that their transgressions were not really serious enough to "punish" the entirety of their teammates, by practically hamstringing them on almost the eve of their BCS bowl appearance. If the decision would have been mine, they would not have played in the bowl game. But I'm not outraged that they were allowed to.

While there is, apparently, no doubt that Cam Newton's father was whoring his kid for cash; there's more than enough reasonable doubt that Cam was in on it, or actively participated in it, or even knew for certain that it was happening. This is the situation that people most often compare to the Bush situation. They use the argument that, in both cases, it was the family that benefitted, and that the NCAA hammered USC while letting Auburn slide. But let's not forget that, in the Bush case, there was ample evidence of Reggie Bush, himself, taking money from agents/boosters. Remember the thousands of dollars in hotel charges that Bush paid for with an agent's credit card? There was a fair amount of travel charged to that same card, if I am remembering it correctly. There was conclusive evidence that Reggie Bush himself was gaming the system. While in the Newton case, there was only verifiable evidence of his dad doing it.

Let's also not forget a kid named OJ Mayo. He was a basketball player at USC that accepted money, FROM COACHES, to come to USC. The recent ruling against USC was not just about the Bush case. The Mayo investigation was rolled into it, and the two were ample evidence of a lack of institutional control. THAT'S why USC got severe penalties. But the sports talk radio people, who live on controversy and conspiracy theory, have failed to put all of these pieces together.

 

[ACamp1900]

Don't buy into the idiot-speak on sports talk radio. The Cam Newton and Ohio State situations are nowhere near the seriousness of what happened at USC.

At Ohio State, you had some players who sold their own personal property, and benefitted financially. It was against the rules, and the players deserved to be punished. My personaly opinion is that the suspensions should not have been delayed, but should have started immediately. But, really........ is it really that egregious, that the NCAA decided not to pull them from a HUGE bowl game? I mean, you could make the argument that their transgressions were not really serious enough to "punish" the entirety of their teammates, by practically hamstringing them on almost the eve of their BCS bowl appearance. If the decision would have been mine, they would not have played in the bowl game. But I'm not outraged that they were allowed to.

While there is, apparently, no doubt that Cam Newton's father was whoring his kid for cash; there's more than enough reasonable doubt that Cam was in on it, or actively participated in it, or even knew for certain that it was happening. This is the situation that people most often compare to the Bush situation. They use the argument that, in both cases, it was the family that benefitted, and that the NCAA hammered USC while letting Auburn slide. But let's not forget that, in the Bush case, there was ample evidence of Reggie Bush, himself, taking money from agents/boosters. Remember the thousands of dollars in hotel charges that Bush paid for with an agent's credit card? There was a fair amount of travel charged to that same card, if I am remembering it correctly. There was conclusive evidence that Reggie Bush himself was gaming the system. While in the Newton case, there was only verifiable evidence of his dad doing it.

Let's also not forget a kid named OJ Mayo. He was a basketball player at USC that accepted money, FROM COACHES, to come to USC. The recent ruling against USC was not just about the Bush case. The Mayo investigation was rolled into it, and the two were ample evidence of a lack of institutional control. THAT'S why USC got severe penalties. But the sports talk radio people, who live on controversy and conspiracy theory, have failed to put all of these pieces together.

you forgot the main point in the USC case... THEY WERE ALREADY ON PROBY WHEN THE INFRACTIONS WITH BUSH OCCURED... everyone seems to completely overlook that in this case... Auburn and tOSU were not on probation at the time their 'stuff' occured... USC was a repeat offender when their 'stuff' occured... it's really that simple.

 

[IrishLax]

you forgot the main point in the USC case... THEY WERE ALREADY ON PROBY WHEN THE INFRACTIONS WITH BUSH OCCURED... everyone seems to completely overlook that in this case... Auburn and tOSU were not on probation at the time their 'stuff' occured... USC was a repeat offender when their 'stuff' occured... it's really that simple.

wow I didn't even know that! jeez... and I thought I followed sports closely

 

[jason_h537]

NCAA to hear USC's appeal Saturday - latimes.com

linking the site again because it really shows how screwed USC is

USC can not site any cases after their ruling was determined so everyone saying Cam helps them is wrong.

Also like NewEngland guy said only 1 case has been overturned since 2008. 90% of cases in history have failed to win an appeal.

 

[ACamp1900]

wow I didn't even know that! jeez... and I thought I followed sports closely

right now the two big name programs currently on proby (aside from SC obviously) are OU ( they got screwed on their case imo) and Alabama... if infractions were to be found while they are still on proby they would get the USC treatment.. tOSU and Auburn would not as they would be considered first time offenders... they would be placed on the same probation that SC was on WHEN the Bush stuff happened, and what Bama and OU are currently on... my beef is how do OU and Bama play for the title (both did) while on probation... BS imo

(note: I do not know if OU is still on proby NOW... but they have been the past two seasons)

SC got hit because all this stuff occured whilethey were still on a probationary basis with their program... honestly I don't think Mayo played in as large as that.

 

[IrishLax]

USC president Max Nikias says Trojans' NCAA appeal hearing 'good and fair'; ruling expected in four to eight weeks - ESPN Los Angeles

4-8 weeks means what? That when they bring in 80+ scholarship kids after this class they are going to cut some people and pretend "we didn't know we would lose" when appeals win at less than a 10% rate?

 

[Ironman8]

Ruling expected in 4-8 weeks:

USC president Max Nikias says Trojans' NCAA appeal hearing 'good and fair'; ruling expected in four to eight weeks - ESPN Los Angeles

 

[IrishLax]

Ruling expected in 4-8 weeks:

USC president Max Nikias says Trojans' NCAA appeal hearing 'good and fair'; ruling expected in four to eight weeks - ESPN Los Angeles

lol.... one step ahead man.... look one post above you.

 

[Ironman8]

lol.... one step ahead man.... look one post above you.

......ashamed of myself.

 

[TDHeysus]

Don't buy into the idiot-speak on sports talk radio. The Cam Newton and Ohio State situations are nowhere near the seriousness of what happened at USC.

At Ohio State, you had some players who sold their own personal property, and benefitted financially. It was against the rules, and the players deserved to be punished. My personaly opinion is that the suspensions should not have been delayed, but should have started immediately. But, really........ is it really that egregious, that the NCAA decided not to pull them from a HUGE bowl game? I mean, you could make the argument that their transgressions were not really serious enough to "punish" the entirety of their teammates, by practically hamstringing them on almost the eve of their BCS bowl appearance. If the decision would have been mine, they would not have played in the bowl game. But I'm not outraged that they were allowed to.

While there is, apparently, no doubt that Cam Newton's father was whoring his kid for cash; there's more than enough reasonable doubt that Cam was in on it, or actively participated in it, or even knew for certain that it was happening. This is the situation that people most often compare to the Bush situation. They use the argument that, in both cases, it was the family that benefitted, and that the NCAA hammered USC while letting Auburn slide. But let's not forget that, in the Bush case, there was ample evidence of Reggie Bush, himself, taking money from agents/boosters. Remember the thousands of dollars in hotel charges that Bush paid for with an agent's credit card? There was a fair amount of travel charged to that same card, if I am remembering it correctly. There was conclusive evidence that Reggie Bush himself was gaming the system. While in the Newton case, there was only verifiable evidence of his dad doing it.

Let's also not forget a kid named OJ Mayo. He was a basketball player at USC that accepted money, FROM COACHES, to come to USC. The recent ruling against USC was not just about the Bush case. The Mayo investigation was rolled into it, and the two were ample evidence of a lack of institutional control. THAT'S why USC got severe penalties. But the sports talk radio people, who live on controversy and conspiracy theory, have failed to put all of these pieces together.

there is a difference between what happened at USC and what happened with Auburn. At USC it was a case of Lack of Institutional Control. You had multiple violations across I think it was 3 sports programs, Football, Basketball, and I think it was womens tennis. OSU and Auburn is all football related, it isnt across other sports programs at the school. USC had a culture of non-compliance to the point where it was a 'hush-hush' joke that was often snickered at when referenced. My fear is that the NCAA in their self serving ways may end up reducing the sanctions just because of all the negative backlash they got for the way they handled the 'Cam Newton' and 'OSU players' situations. Eiter way, the NCAA is so screwed up.

 

[fightincolts]

there is a difference between what happened at USC and what happened with Auburn. At USC it was a case of Lack of Institutional Control. You had multiple violations across I think it was 3 sports programs, Football, Basketball, and I think it was womens tennis. OSU and Auburn is all football related, it isnt across other sports programs at the school. USC had a culture of non-compliance to the point where it was a 'hush-hush' joke that was often snickered at when referenced. My fear is that the NCAA in their self serving ways may end up reducing the sanctions just because of all the negative backlash they got for the way they handled the 'Cam Newton' and 'OSU players' situations. Eiter way, the NCAA is so screwed up.

SC is so desperate to win they have to buy womens tennis players..wow...
I think Southern Cal got fair punishment with ample evidence that Bush did, indeed take money from agents. I do not believe there is any substantial evidence like the Bush case had for Newton. It's all speculation.. but I'm not denying that Newton was in on it. It'll just take a while for the NCAA CSI to find it

 

[Veer option]

Courtesy of SI
Lane Kiffin, USC skirting recruiting sanctions with appeal pending - Stewart Mandel - SI.com

This kind of **** makes me so very angry.

 

[GoldenIsThyFame]

Courtesy of SI
Lane*Kiffin, USC*skirting recruiting sanctions with appeal pending - Stewart Mandel - SI.com

This kind of **** makes me so very angry.

This finally answers some of our questions. It is kind of ridiculous that they can do this while they are appealing, esentially it buys them time to stock up before the storm. I still feel they will pay for what they did. It may not be this year but it will be soon enough.

 

[DomerInHappyValley]

Either way they're screwed take it with a grain of salt my biggest problem is if they push it back to start next year they can still draft a class of 10 players or so depending on how many underclassmen declare for the draft. Who want's to bet that half of them are JUCO players?

 

[Rhode Irish]

HLS also took a look at u$c's scholarship situation, breaking it down over the length of the sanctions.

This is over a week old now, so I imagine some of you have seen it. But for any that haven't I thought it was pretty good.

 

[NewEnglandGuy]

Good stuff. Some clarity for those who do not wish to waste time digging into the number breakdown:

u$c actually had 8 recruits from the 2011 cycle EE, the ninth was a player who did not qualify academically (go figure) last year.

Quarterbacks Max Wittek and Cody Kessler were among a group that includes offensive linemen David Garness and Jeremy Galten, linebacker Dallas Kelley, cornerback Isiah Wiley, fullback Soma Vainuku, kicker Andre Heidari and long snapper Peter McBride.

Garness, Galten, Kelly and Wiley are junior college transfers. Vainuku signed with the Trojans in 2010 but did not qualify academically.

-From an LA Times article that did not mention the appeals process...no reason to link. This has been comfirmed on rivals as well.

Including these EEs (and a late 2010er), the condoms have only 60ish scholarship players depending on where you read. As of today, they have 17 additional class of 2011 commits including 3 "soft commits" still taking visits.
-4/5 star DE Jalen Grimble visited Miami last weekend and will visit UCLA this weekend
-3 star OG Marcus Martin, Arizona last weekend and Colorado this coming weekend
-3 star LB Kent Turene went to Georgia last weekend
The remaining targets on their radar include:
DT Delvon Simmons, DT Christian Heyward, LB Lamar Dawson, ATH/DB Marqise Lee, DB Marcus Roberson, DB Erique Florence, DB Ryan Henderson, OG Cyrus Hobbi, OT Aundrey Walker, OT Antonio Richardson, OT Troy Niklas, and TE Junior Pomee.

u$c will be lucky to get 4 of that group but will probably sign 3 (lead for Lee, top 2 for Henderson, and in good position with Pomee, Niklas, and Heyward).

Just for fun, I will assume one of the soft commits drops, but they pick up 3 more commits. This would give them 19 more players to enroll this summer and moves their number of total scholarships to 79. Again, depending on where you read, they will have 13/14 players graduate after this coming season. Couple that with the 75 man limit if their appeal fails, and they will only be able to sign a 9/10 man class in 2012. And so it begins...enjoy it fellas.