Israeli ground invasion of Gaza-What a day!!

[Fbolt]

Israel launches ground operation into Gaza - CNN.com

 

[BobbyMac]

.

 

[GATTACA!]

Could someone summarize?

 

[magogian]

Kinda surprised this thread hasn't taken off.

 

[GATTACA!]

Kinda surprised this thread hasn't taken off.

Well there is the whole plane thing

 

[gkIrish]

Kinda surprised this thread hasn't taken off.

Well there is the whole plane thing

Pun intended?

 

[BobD]

I feel kind of bad because I don't care about this whole Israel vs Hamas and the Palestinians thing. They hate each other and nothing is going to change that. I don't wish death or suffering on anyone, but we need to walk away and let them hash it out. There is no peaceful solution. None. We should never work harder at resolving an issue than the two sides actually involved. We need to tell both sides to fk off.

 

[Black Irish]

I feel kind of bad because I don't care about this whole Israel vs Hamas and the Palestinians thing. They hate each other and nothing is going to change that. I don't wish death or suffering on anyone, but we need to walk away and let them hash it out. There is no peaceful solution. None. We should never work harder at resolving an issue than the two sides actually involved. We need to tell both sides to fk off.

You're certainly on to something there. No third party had to come in and broker a peace treaty between the North & the South during the American Civil War.

 

[irishog77]

It is sad, but I never expect to see peace there. When, as a people, you seek justice over forgiveness and hold justice in higher regard than forgiveness, I don't know how peace can ever be found.

 

[Irish8248]

I feel kind of bad because I don't care about this whole Israel vs Hamas and the Palestinians thing. They hate each other and nothing is going to change that. I don't wish death or suffering on anyone, but we need to walk away and let them hash it out. There is no peaceful solution. None. We should never work harder at resolving an issue than the two sides actually involved. We need to tell both sides to fk off.

Normally I'd agree, but having WWIII like over there would be detrimental to America. It would literally shut our commerce down and make the cost of living, doing business, skyrocket. Our financial situation is too fragile to just adopt isolationism for the middle east region

Dependency on oil coupled with nearly every Muslim country hating us, tense relations with Russia, spells disaster

Until we either become independent of oil or open up the oil wells in America, complete instability in the middle east will cripple America

 

[Irish#1]

Normally I'd agree, but having WWIII like over there would be detrimental to America. It would literally shut our commerce down and make the cost of living, doing business, skyrocket. Our financial situation is too fragile to just adopt isolationism for the middle east region

Dependency on oil coupled with nearly every Muslim country hating us, tense relations with Russia, spells disaster

Until we either become independent of oil or open up the oil wells in America, complete instability in the middle east will cripple America

I see what you're saying, but I agree with Bob. Let them hash it out. when and only when it really puts a hurt on us do we get involved. We should start tapping our oil reserves now.

 

[BobD]

Normally I'd agree, but having WWIII like over there would be detrimental to America. It would literally shut our commerce down and make the cost of living, doing business, skyrocket. Our financial situation is too fragile to just adopt isolationism for the middle east region

Dependency on oil coupled with nearly every Muslim country hating us, tense relations with Russia, spells disaster

Until we either become independent of oil or open up the oil wells in America, complete instability in the middle east will cripple America

Economically It might not be as bad as you think though. Our status with most of the country's over there would be greatly improved simply by dropping our support for Israel.

 

[Old Man Mike]

"Notre Dame" tried its best to aid in a solution to this and even "we" could make no headway. The former dean of the ND Law School, David Link [I think I remembered his name correctly], when he went into retirement, began with others a backdoor effort of quite some seriousness to reach both Palestinian and Israeli leaders to get some form of true dialogue going --- MANY trips over there, and meetings [secret] at the highest levels.

I used to sit next to him at daily mass when he would visit Kalamazoo [some of the funding was from the Fetzer Institute.] He'd talk about his work [and old war tales from ND too], because he was passionate and enjoyed talking to someone supportive of what he was trying to do. But it was obvious to me that his optimism was about gone. One day he then said: almost all of the lower level players in this want peace and would give concessions to the other guys to get it, BUT the very TOP dogs are among the worst people in the world, and don't give a damn about peace unless it's surrender without terms. {Some of those words are mine, not David's, but they accurately convey his experiences.}

So, yes. Pessimism reigns with me too. Hopefully the worst people in the world will finally die out and the survivors can rebuild something.

As far as WWIII breaking out: that has precisely no chance of happening. All the really big powers in the world have become deeply invested in the Global Economy and thoroughly understand that. All the really big players understand the "Energy Thing" and have positioned themselves to ride on even if Pakistanis or Israelis or Iranians try to throw bombs at one another [ground action on pipelines is FAR more likely by the way.] Russia is wildly ramping up the Central Asian oil fields, and Germany and China are right with them now as trade partners. Our crazy fast Fracking and Oil Shaleing operations are making us an EXporter. I might not agree with all of that, as an environmentalist, but what it has done is rendered Middle East oil less of an absolute necessity for the big powers and more of a convenience. Even Saudi Arabia has their own economic plan in place and in action to keep going in the post-gulf oil world.

p.s. The Good Dr. Link has since pursued a late vocation and is now Catholic Priest "Father" Link. ... and may GOD bless him.

 

[dublinirish]

surprized there isn't more of a response on here about this and the atrocities that are taking place.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>I've seen some truly shocking scenes this morning. A man putting the remains of his two year old son into a shopping bag...</p>— peter beaumont (@petersbeaumont) <a href="https://twitter.com/petersbeaumont/statuses/490096869495029760">July 18, 2014</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[ResLife Hero]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>Israel warns it could "significantly widen" ground offensive in <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Gaza?src=hash">#Gaza</a>: <a href="http://t.co/FItFrgC0gb">http://t.co/FItFrgC0gb</a> <a href="http://t.co/wdFB2QBGcy">pic.twitter.com/wdFB2QBGcy</a></p>— Reuters Top News (@Reuters) <a href="https://twitter.com/Reuters/statuses/490136180084965377">July 18, 2014</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[irish1958]

surprized there isn't more of a response on here about this and the atrocities that are taking place.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>I've seen some truly shocking scenes this morning. A man putting the remains of his two year old son into a shopping bag...</p>— peter beaumont (@petersbeaumont) <a href="https://twitter.com/petersbeaumont/statuses/490096869495029760">July 18, 2014</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

War sucks.
In 1948 our vote in the UN brought Israel into existence over the objection of the Arab world and we have felt the obligation to support (with the pressure from the Jewish lobby) them ever since.
The position of the Arab world is that Israel is an illegal state and must not exist and the people who occupy the Palestinian land must be expelled. This premise is the basis of all their diplomacy and is not negotiable.
The success of Hamas in the recent election suggest that the Palestinian people feel this way also.
In which case there can be no solution.

 

[Rizzophil]

Best way to summarize, Hamas is dedicated to destroying Israel. Israel is determined to protect itself from foreign and domestic threats.

Hamas hides their rockets in residential areas. They use children as shields. Israel protects it's children from rockets with an iron dome.

Anti-Israel is growing and will continue to grow as it defends itself.

Hamas wants the tiny piece of Israel land because they believe it's their birth right. Palestine didn't really form until 800 AD however

 

[EddytoNow]

A few thoughts here to ponder.

First, you have two sides who don't trust each other and are unwilling to compromise. Sounds a lot like our two party political system these days. Isn't it amazing how closely the red and blue states mirror the alignment in our own Civil War.

Second, this is yet another case of the colonial powers creating new countries or redrawing traditional boundaries to suit their own interests. The root of much of the Middle Eastern strife dates back to colonialism and the taking of traditional homelands. A lot of parallels here with Ireland's struggle for independence, a struggle that continues today in the six counties. For those unfamiliar with Irish history, Northern Ireland was carved out of the whole to insure Protestants would dominate. Promises were broken and re-emerged when discrimination and exploitation of the Catholic population became intolerable. The Middle East was carved up many years ago to insure European and American control of its vast oil reserves. New, previously non-existent, countries were created with friendly dictators installed to insure the exploitation was allowed to continue.
The Shah of Iran was one such dictator and our support for him insured many years of mistrust when he was finally over-thrown. Forty years later, we have still not regained the trust and cooperation of the Iranian people.

Third, Israel was created and continues to have US support because of a powerful lobbying/voting block in the USA. The news we get is one-sided with a heavy Israeli bias. If a Muslim country was bombing the h*** out of another country and killing hundreds of innocent civilians, our politicians would line up in front of the cameras to be the first to condemn the attacks. When it's Israel we justify the mass killing because they are the "good guys". Until we take a neutral position in this conflict, we will continue to be subjected to the hate of the Muslim world. We can't have it both ways. Either we take a neutral position and help to broker a peace or we get the h*** out of the fight.

 

[irish1958]

England and France created the modern Middle East states out of the defeated Ottoman Empire after the First World War. We had no part in it after Wilson was ignored as part of the peace process. He went home, had a stroke and was ineffective thereafter.
True, we became involved after the Second World War and pushed for the establishment of Israel and the protection of our oil interests.
The Arab (Muslim) position is that the state of Israel be abolished and the interlopers "be driven into the sea." Oddly enough, Israel doesn't agree with this solution.

 

[Redbar]

Best way to summarize, Hamas is dedicated to destroying Israel. Israel is determined to protect itself from foreign and domestic threats.

Hamas hides their rockets in residential areas. They use children as shields. Israel protects it's children from rockets with an iron dome.

Anti-Israel is growing and will continue to grow as it defends itself.

Hamas wants the tiny piece of Israel land because they believe it's their birth right. Palestine didn't really form until 800 AD however

I think there are some other ways to summarize the situation, but if you are trying to do it in four sentences or less from AIPAC's talking points, that would probably suffice.

 

[Booslum31]

Best way to summarize, Hamas is dedicated to destroying Israel. Israel is determined to protect itself from foreign and domestic threats.

Hamas hides their rockets in residential areas. They use children as shields. Israel protects it's children from rockets with an iron dome.

Anti-Israel is growing and will continue to grow as it defends itself.

Hamas wants the tiny piece of Israel land because they believe it's their birth right. Palestine didn't really form until 800 AD however

I may be rather naive here, but it seems good that they are defending themselves (for now) and we aren't getting pulled into it unlike some other countries in the region.

 

[Wild Bill]

A few thoughts here to ponder.

First, you have two sides who don't trust each other and are unwilling to compromise. Sounds a lot like our two party political system these days. Isn't it amazing how closely the red and blue states mirror the alignment in our own Civil War.

Second, this is yet another case of the colonial powers creating new countries or redrawing traditional boundaries to suit their own interests. The root of much of the Middle Eastern strife dates back to colonialism and the taking of traditional homelands. A lot of parallels here with Ireland's struggle for independence, a struggle that continues today in the six counties. For those unfamiliar with Irish history, Northern Ireland was carved out of the whole to insure Protestants would dominate. Promises were broken and re-emerged when discrimination and exploitation of the Catholic population became intolerable. The Middle East was carved up many years ago to insure European and American control of its vast oil reserves. New, previously non-existent, countries were created with friendly dictators installed to insure the exploitation was allowed to continue.
The Shah of Iran was one such dictator and our support for him insured many years of mistrust when he was finally over-thrown. Forty years later, we have still not regained the trust and cooperation of the Iranian people.

Third, Israel was created and continues to have US support because of a powerful lobbying/voting block in the USA. The news we get is one-sided with a heavy Israeli bias. If a Muslim country was bombing the h*** out of another country and killing hundreds of innocent civilians, our politicians would line up in front of the cameras to be the first to condemn the attacks. When it's Israel we justify the mass killing because they are the "good guys". Until we take a neutral position in this conflict, we will continue to be subjected to the hate of the Muslim world. We can't have it both ways. Either we take a neutral position and help to broker a peace or we get the h*** out of the fight.

Israel isn't bombing the hell out of anybody. They are being bombed relentlessly and Hamas refused a cease fire. How long should Israel tolerate the rockets before they strike back? We'd tolerate bombs from our neighbors for about three seconds before we launched back and crushed them. Why should Israel be held to a higher standard?

It's clear the Israeli people want nothing to do with these people. The Israeli people, as a whole, seem to be more interested in peace and prosperity. Unfortunately, their neighbor(s) is/are interested in seizing Israel (the entire country, not a small piece of it) and exterminating Jews. That is what they mean by "drive the Jews into the sea", right? I assure you if the "Palestinians" had Israel's military capability "death to Jews" wouldn't just be a rallying cry, it would be a reality.

 

[AvesEvo]

Best way to summarize, Hamas is dedicated to destroying Israel. Israel is determined to protect itself from foreign and domestic threats.

Hamas hides their rockets in residential areas. They use children as shields. Israel protects it's children from rockets with an iron dome.

Anti-Israel is growing and will continue to grow as it defends itself.

Hamas wants the tiny piece of Israel land because they believe it's their birth right. Palestine didn't really form until 800 AD however

This is complete bullshit. You don't have a clue. Israel is a racist and fascist state. They bulldoze 20,000 to 25,000 Palestinian homes every year. This is colonialism.

 

[AvesEvo]

A few thoughts here to ponder.

First, you have two sides who don't trust each other and are unwilling to compromise. Sounds a lot like our two party political system these days. Isn't it amazing how closely the red and blue states mirror the alignment in our own Civil War.

Second, this is yet another case of the colonial powers creating new countries or redrawing traditional boundaries to suit their own interests. The root of much of the Middle Eastern strife dates back to colonialism and the taking of traditional homelands. A lot of parallels here with Ireland's struggle for independence, a struggle that continues today in the six counties. For those unfamiliar with Irish history, Northern Ireland was carved out of the whole to insure Protestants would dominate. Promises were broken and re-emerged when discrimination and exploitation of the Catholic population became intolerable. The Middle East was carved up many years ago to insure European and American control of its vast oil reserves. New, previously non-existent, countries were created with friendly dictators installed to insure the exploitation was allowed to continue.
The Shah of Iran was one such dictator and our support for him insured many years of mistrust when he was finally over-thrown. Forty years later, we have still not regained the trust and cooperation of the Iranian people.

Third, Israel was created and continues to have US support because of a powerful lobbying/voting block in the USA. The news we get is one-sided with a heavy Israeli bias. If a Muslim country was bombing the h*** out of another country and killing hundreds of innocent civilians, our politicians would line up in front of the cameras to be the first to condemn the attacks. When it's Israel we justify the mass killing because they are the "good guys". Until we take a neutral position in this conflict, we will continue to be subjected to the hate of the Muslim world. We can't have it both ways. Either we take a neutral position and help to broker a peace or we get the h*** out of the fight.

I agree with everything you said except there is no neutral position to take. This isn't a complicated issue, Israel systematically is trying to erase Palestinians from existence. Golda Meir said herself that Palestinians do not exist and a Netanyahu cabinet member just last week said that Israeli's can kill Palestinian mothers because they give birth to snakes. Israel is a fascist country. Israelis have been sitting outside of Gaza and cheering on the explosions. It is disgusting! The US government and media is in cahoots as well, they have completely rewritten the history of this past months conflict and blame absolutely everything on Hamas. Read this article Israel's media strategy: What lies beneath - Opinion - Al Jazeera English

 

[AvesEvo]

England and France created the modern Middle East states out of the defeated Ottoman Empire after the First World War. We had no part in it after Wilson was ignored as part of the peace process. He went home, had a stroke and was ineffective thereafter.
True, we became involved after the Second World War and pushed for the establishment of Israel and the protection of our oil interests.
The Arab (Muslim) position is that the state of Israel be abolished and the interlopers "be driven into the sea." Oddly enough, Israel doesn't agree with this solution.

The Egyptian president said this and he was all talk as he was trying to gain power in the Middle East.

 

[AvesEvo]

Israel isn't bombing the hell out of anybody. They are being bombed relentlessly and Hamas refused a cease fire. How long should Israel tolerate the rockets before they strike back? We'd tolerate bombs from our neighbors for about three seconds before we launched back and crushed them. Why should Israel be held to a higher standard?

It's clear the Israeli people want nothing to do with these people. The Israeli people, as a whole, seem to be more interested in peace and prosperity. Unfortunately, their neighbor(s) is/are interested in seizing Israel (the entire country, not a small piece of it) and exterminating Jews. That is what they mean by "drive the Jews into the sea", right? I assure you if the "Palestinians" had Israel's military capability "death to Jews" wouldn't just be a rallying cry, it would be a reality.

The top is a "rocket" from Hamas, the bottom is from an Israeli missile. Not exactly the same.

 

[ResLife Hero]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>How Hamas’ internal politics are fuelling the Gaza war <a href="http://t.co/PjAOydTUgj">http://t.co/PjAOydTUgj</a></p>— Vox (@voxdotcom) <a href="https://twitter.com/voxdotcom/statuses/490216965144076288">July 18, 2014</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[MJ12666]

This is complete bullshit. You don't have a clue. Israel is a racist and fascist state. They bulldoze 20,000 to 25,000 Palestinian homes every year. This is colonialism.

Please see attached report on Hamas hiding rockets in a school. I am curious what you think about this.

Reading, Writing, and Rockets? The UN Discovers 20 Rockets Hidden At School In Gaza | JONATHAN TURLEY

 

[Wild Bill]

This is complete bullshit. You don't have a clue. Israel is a racist and fascist state. They bulldoze 20,000 to 25,000 Palestinian homes every year. This is colonialism.

They were able to suppress their racism and fascism enough to offer Arafat over 90% of the West Bank in exchange for peace. He walked away from the negotiation and provided no explanation.

 

[ResLife Hero]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>Ban Ki-moon will travel to the Middle East Saturday in bid to end Israeli, Palestinian hostilities: <a href="http://t.co/cogb4RxWUK">http://t.co/cogb4RxWUK</a></p>— Reuters Top News (@Reuters) <a href="https://twitter.com/Reuters/statuses/490218362883280897">July 18, 2014</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

I'm sure he'll be able to smooth things over