ISIS

ozzman

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of course there are sleeper cells here. they know that people with US passports went to Syria for training/fighting. Let's just hope the IC figures out the threats before anything happens.

This building is on Michigan Ave here in Chicago...
BuoZxHsIgAE-IX2.jpg:large


Photo implies ISIS threat to Chicago | WGN-TV
 

T Town Tommy

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Informative article by a person who has way more knowledge of ISIS and the regions in Iraq that are affected than I do. As much as we like to pile on the Admin, this whole thing is much more complex than most believe. I agree we have to do something... what that is I don't know yet.

ISIS: The only way to defeat it (Opinion) - CNN.com
 

johnnycando

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BGIF

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Wow!

Wow!

How a Glasgow girl became an ISIS bride - CNN.com

By Atika Shubert and Bharati Naik, CNN
updated 6:39 AM EDT, Fri September 5, 2014

...

Her father says when he spoke to her about coming home, she said that she would see her family on Judgment Day and would like to be a martyr.


Both parents are quick to denounce ISIS, which also calls itself the "Islamic State," and the atrocities that are being carried out in the name of religion.

...
 

BobD

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You assume we aren't doing anything about it?

No. I feel we aren't doing enough and not moving fast enough. We need to wreak violent havoc on them and any violence prone Islamist extremists group we can find.

No matter what, we are going to have to kill a lot of people. It's not a matter of if, just when. The longer we wait, the bloodier it's gonna be.
 

ACamp1900

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No. I feel we aren't doing enough and not moving fast enough. We need to wreak violent havoc on them and any violence prone Islamist extremists group we can find.

No matter what, we are going to have to kill a lot of people. It's not a matter of if, just when. The longer we wait, the bloodier it's gonna be.

Guys, clearly, Pat did something to Bob and took over his account,...
 

Irish YJ

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No. I feel we aren't doing enough and not moving fast enough. We need to wreak violent havoc on them and any violence prone Islamist extremists group we can find.

No matter what, we are going to have to kill a lot of people. It's not a matter of if, just when. The longer we wait, the bloodier it's gonna be.

This is a sad truth, but nonetheless it is truth.
 
B

Buster Bluth

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No. I feel we aren't doing enough and not moving fast enough. We need to wreak violent havoc on them and any violence prone Islamist extremists group we can find.

No matter what, we are going to have to kill a lot of people. It's not a matter of if, just when. The longer we wait, the bloodier it's gonna be.

This is ignorant and bordering on the insane.
 

dshans

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Just what tools are we talking about eliminating?

Rudimentary?

Hand?

Wind up?

120 volt AC power?

18 volt DC battery?

Solar Powered?
 

Whiskeyjack

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Care to expand or is this just another snarky Buster drive by?

I can't speak for Buster, but I assume he'd say something this:

The last time we worked ourselves into a militaristic frenzy over an Islamist terrorist organization, we invaded two foreign countries and toppled their governments. In the process, hundreds of thousands died, millions were displaced, and over $1 trillion was spent.

And what did all of that get us? A severely degraded al-Qaeda, yes, but also a regional power vacuum that allowed an even nastier group, ISIS, to gain control over significant swathes of territory (which AQ never managed).

Assuming that's the thrust of Buster's above comment, I'd happily co-sign on it. AQ and ISIS are both products of the fundamentalist strain of Salafist Islam that Saudia Arabia has been aggressively spreading for decades. Our Sunni allies created this monster, and if they're unwilling to put boots on the ground to stop it--despite the existential threat ISIS poses to them--then why should a single drop of American blood be shed there?

We destroyed AQ and ISIS sprang up out of the rubble. If we destroy ISIS, another fresh Islamist horror will be waiting in the wings to take its place. This one is on the Sunnis.
 

Irish YJ

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Wait.
He needs to explain that mass murder isn't necessary to prevent mass murder?

I'd be interested to understand what you believe the answer is.

Dealing with a group of people that kill people in masses, rape, enslave, etc., is not a situation you can negotiate with. They fundamentally believe that all of us (including everyone here on IE) should die. AQ has even disavowed them. Yes, they people that brought you 9/11, think ISIS is too radical. They kill even those in their own religion. They kill and sell children as sex slaves. In my opinion, they are the closes thing to pure evil since Hitler.

The Christian in me has a hard time thinking about the solution. The logical side of me understands they only path is violence. The human in me has no problem with exterminating that evil.
 

Irish YJ

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I can't speak for Buster, but I assume he'd say something this:



Assuming that's the thrust of Buster's above comment, I'd happily co-sign on it. AQ and ISIS are both products of the fundamentalist strain of Salafist Islam that Saudia Arabia has been aggressively spreading for decades. Our Sunni allies created this monster, and if they're unwilling to put boots on the ground to stop it--despite the existential threat ISIS poses to them--then why should a single drop of American blood be shed there?

We destroyed AQ and ISIS sprang up out of the rubble. If we destroy ISIS, another fresh Islamist horror will be waiting in the wings to take its place. This one is on the Sunnis.

Hitler was a product of WW1. Using the rationale above, we should have let Hitler continue because something more evil and sinister would pop up?

I understand your point about the Sunni aliies' hand in this, but ignoring evil IMO is not the answer. This is a lose / lose situation. The greater loss is not acting.
 

Whiskeyjack

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Hitler was a product of WW1.

Nazi Germany was the product of many factors, not least of all the harshly punitive Treaty of Versailles and French arrogance.

Using the rationale above, we should have let Hitler continue because something more evil and sinister would pop up?

Not really following your logic here. The two World Wars were very different in cause and nature. And in both conflicts, we basically waited until our allies were not only engaged but in mortal danger before jumping in. That's not remotely true with ISIS. If Saudia Arabia, Qatar and the UAE dedicate some serious resources to putting their mad dog down, then I'd happily vote to back them up if needed. But you're crazy if you want to put American lives at risk here when our regional allies can't be bothered to police their own backyard.

I understand your point about the Sunni aliies' hand in this, but ignoring evil IMO is not the answer. This is a lose / lose situation. The greater loss is not acting.

We're bound the fight evil now, are we? So I assume you'd support an invasion of central Africa to destroy Boko Haram, right? They're every bit as brutal as ISIS; just not as good at marketing themselves. How about North Korea? That's an evil regime that actually as nuclear weapons! Better schedule them for an invasion, too.

I agree that ISIS is evil, and will have to be exterminated with prejudice. But this is not America's fight. When our regional allies are ready to clean up the mess they've made, let's give them all the support they need; but there shouldn't be a single American boot on the ground until the Sunnis start addressing this themselves.
 
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Irish YJ

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Nazi Germany was the product of many factors, not least of all the harshly punitive Treaty of Versailles and French arrogance.



Not really following your logic here. The two World Wars were very different in cause and nature. And in both conflicts, we basically waited until our allies were not only engaged but in mortal danger before jumping in. That's not remotely true with ISIS. If Saudia Arabia, Qatar and the UAE dedicate some serious resources to putting their mad dog down, then I'd happily vote to back them up if needed. But you're crazy if you want to put American lives at risk here when our regional allies can't be bothered to police their own backyard.



We're bound the fight evil now, are we? So I assume you'd support an invasion of central Africa to destroy Boko Haram, right? They're every bit as brutal as ISIS; just not as good at marketing themselves. How about North Korea? That's an evil regime that actually as nuclear weapons! Better schedule them for an invasion, too.

I agree that ISIS is evil, and will have to be exterminated with prejudice. But this is not America's fight.


My point is that evil is evil, regardless of the cause.
It's the world's fight, not just America's.
We waited to long to join the world against Hitler.
I agree 200% about the TOV being a huge part of Hitler's rise, but that does not detract from the evil of his regime. I can't blame the French or the Weimar Republic for his evil. His rise, but not his evil.
There's no perfect answer. To your point, extermination without prejudice is required.
How long do we wait? Until they have gathered strength, killed and enslaved thousands more? Do we honestly believe the ME will handle it?
And yes, I'm all for pushing for a coalition to exterminate BH.
 

philipm31

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I can't speak for Buster, but I assume he'd say something this:



Assuming that's the thrust of Buster's above comment, I'd happily co-sign on it. AQ and ISIS are both products of the fundamentalist strain of Salafist Islam that Saudia Arabia has been aggressively spreading for decades. Our Sunni allies created this monster, and if they're unwilling to put boots on the ground to stop it--despite the existential threat ISIS poses to them--then why should a single drop of American blood be shed there?

We destroyed AQ and ISIS sprang up out of the rubble. If we destroy ISIS, another fresh Islamist horror will be waiting in the wings to take its place. This one is on the Sunnis.

Amen, brother.
 

yankeeND

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Hitler was a product of WW1. Using the rationale above, we should have let Hitler continue because something more evil and sinister would pop up?

I understand your point about the Sunni aliies' hand in this, but ignoring evil IMO is not the answer. This is a lose / lose situation. The greater loss is not acting.

That's a very unfortunate point that many people have a difficult time getting behind. The things that would actually have to happen to get this whole mess under control are going to be horrid, and the cost will be just as disgusting. Still, just sitting back and pointing the finger is not going to solve anything either. I agree that we are dealing with evil in this situation, and the cost of doing nothing could potentially change everything that we know as Americans. Being attacked from within, on our own soil is a very real and potential threat from all of this that many people seem to be ignoring. At some point, there may not be a choice in the matter. I would prefer we were proactive instead of reactive.
 
B

Buster Bluth

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Care to expand or is this just another snarky Buster drive by?

The people calling for a full-blown war with ISIS are grossly misrepresenting the threat ISIS poses, the circumstances that led to ISIS manifesting, and the benefits such a war would even bring.

My full thoughts on ISIS: they're not worth a single American life at this point.

ISIS, from my perspective, if the result of 1) post-WW1 borders being incongruent with cultural/religious boundaries, 2) an Iranian/Saudi battle for Middle Eastern hegemony taking place over top of that, 3) a power vacuum happening right in the middle of it all. A three-layered clusterfuck that birthed the wretched ISIS we have today, and issues a war with ISIS won't come close to solving.

Just so we're clear: we are the ones who destabilized Iraq. We are the ones who disbanded Saddam's army and let unemployed generals go find work in the private sector (see: ISIS). We are the ones who installed a Shia President in Iraq who then disenfranchised the Sunni populations (see: unemployed military generals). We are the ones who helped destabilized Syria to the point where Assad couldn't keep a lid on ISIS lunatics. We have made a whole host of bad decisions that created the ISIS situation we have. I think we could use a little humility and we should probably stop thinking that the answer to every problem over there is a lack of US bombs being dropped.

If ISIS is such a threat to the Middle East, why isn't Israel doing something about it? Oh that's right, this band of thugs can't even win against the Kurds, or capture Baghdad, or even topple an Assad regime that's dealing with its own civil war. The idea of ISIS somehow beating competent militaries from Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Iran, Egypt, etc is laughable. Kurdish fighters and American air power have already stopped their advance in Iraq.

Which brings up another point, this is happening in Syria and Iraq, two known Iran puppets. Sending Americans to their deaths to put Syria/Iraq back together to the ultimate benefit of Iran has stupidity written all over it from my view.

Are we even considering the fact that ISIS wants us to invade them? Let me repeat that: the enemy wants you to invade them. Last time I checked doing exactly what your enemy wants isn't how you win. We can review the last fifteen years of fighting Al-Qaeda and see that Osama bin Laden got exactly what he wanted: Western troops running around the Middle East killing Muslims and simultaneously stirring up anti-West sentiment. The ISIS calculation is simple: they win either way if Westerners/Israelis are there. So right off the bat, the neighboring Sunni countries are the ones who will have to be on the ground.

Self important Buckeyes love to lob grenades...

This is cute considering there are people here advocating for the literal lobbing of grenades.

How long do we wait? Until they have gathered strength, killed and enslaved thousands more? Do we honestly believe the ME will handle it?

ISIS is gathering strength? Last I checked their advance has been stymied. Wake me up when they capture Baghdad or Damascus.

And yes, I'm all for pushing for a coalition to exterminate BH.

I think you're seriously underestimating the monetary and personnel costs of occupying a country. These things can easily cost a trillion dollars. How far down the list should we go? Should we occupy Mexico to seek out their barbaric cartels who murder tens of thousands too?

Never in the history of the world has a country been able to project its power to stop all the world's evil, and it isn't the case today. I'd argue the mindset that we should even attempt it are more harmful for Americans than the actual evil existing today.
 
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B

Buster Bluth

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That's a very unfortunate point that many people have a difficult time getting behind. The things that would actually have to happen to get this whole mess under control are going to be horrid, and the cost will be just as disgusting. Still, just sitting back and pointing the finger is not going to solve anything either. I agree that we are dealing with evil in this situation, and the cost of doing nothing could potentially change everything that we know as Americans. Being attacked from within, on our own soil is a very real and potential threat from all of this that many people seem to be ignoring. At some point, there may not be a choice in the matter. I would prefer we were proactive instead of reactive.

The 19 hijackers on 9/11 didn't need a caliphate's support to pull off what they did. An ISIS presence in Syria/Iraq is a different animal, only loosely related.
 
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