Investigation Results

[pkt77242]

Revoking an already issued degree is an extreme course of action that schools are very hesitant to take. So I wouldn't read anything into it.

Unless it is a Doctorate then they are much less hesitant but most schools wouldn't think of revoking a Bachelors degree.

 

[Legacy93]

Revoking an already issued degree is an extreme course of action that schools are very hesitant to take. So I wouldn't read anything into it.

And vacating wins isn't extreme? I was suggesting that since both seem extreme that it was worth asking the question.

 

[Legacy93]

Right. This is 100% right. The gray area is:
1. ND is self-righteous and dumb.
2. The student trainer could technically be considered an athletic department employee.

I am nearly 100% sure that everyone that is considered an employee of the university did the correct thing in this scenario so I'd doubt 2 which only leaves 1 and well....

 

[IrishLax]

I am nearly 100% sure that everyone that is considered an employee of the university did the correct thing in this scenario so I'd doubt 2 which only leaves 1 and well....

?

Look, think whatever you want. She was getting paid part-time (like any student who does part time work for the University), and Jenkins outright said that the issue is that she might be considered a representative of the athletic department.

 

[IrishLax]

Unless it is a Doctorate then they are much less hesitant but most schools wouldn't think of revoking a Bachelors degree.

truth.

 

[NDdomer2]

I've seen/read nothing that makes me think ND will/won't vacate wins. The only time it was mentioned was in the initial PC, where Jenkins/ND clearly didn't have a full grasp of the situation.

 

[Legacy93]

?

Look, think whatever you want. She was getting paid part-time (like any student who does part time work for the University), and Jenkins outright said that the issue is that she might be considered a representative of the athletic department.

As a current tutor who had the director of ASSA for the football team, Adam Sargent, come and speak at our training earlier this semester who told us all that the entire system of tutors and the like that are considered to be University reps. did the proper thing, I wouldn't really consider my opinion to be just me thinking whatever I want. He could have been blowing smoke though, which is why I wasn't 100% sure.

 

[IrishLax]

As a current tutor who had the director of ASSA for the football team, Adam Sargent, come and speak at our training earlier this semester who told us all that the entire system of tutors and the like that are considered to be University reps. did the proper thing, I wouldn't really consider my opinion to be just me thinking whatever I want. He could have been blowing smoke though, which is why I wasn't 100% sure.

Here's the Jenkins quote:

He said the athletic department’s compliance office became aware of “a potentially problematic situation involving a current student athlete as well as a student who served for a brief time as a paid student employee of the athletic department, although that position had no role in academic tutoring or advising of student athletes.”

“I want to underscore that the current investigation has not revealed any misconduct or knowledge of impropriety by regular, full-time staff,” he said. “However, given the student’s brief status as a paid employee, there was the possibility of what the NCAA considers an ‘excess benefit’ given to the student athlete by a representative of the institution.”

Which is consistent with everything I've heard. Given the responsibilities matrix and other factors it's likely not enough to substantiate vacating wins.

However, saying: "everyone that is considered an employee of the university did the correct thing in this scenario" is... by virtue of Jenkins' quote above... not necessarily the case.

I don't think I disagree with you that much, what I'm saying is that it is hypothetically a concern that could give us exposure to the NCAA. It shouldn't be dismissed that he status simply doesn't matter, because our compliance department feels that it does.

 

[IrishLax]

I've seen/read nothing that makes me think ND will/won't vacate wins. The only time it was mentioned was in the initial PC, where Jenkins/ND clearly didn't have a full grasp of the situation.

I agree, I don't know if anyone knows up or down bu the longer this drags on the better I feel. At one point about two weeks ago I would've bet on us vacating wins, but now I'm coming back more towards it being simply unclear.

Self-sanctioning has been mentioned after that, but I don't think they've outright talked about vacating wins.

There's a pretty decent source on Scout that allegedly has indicated it seems unlikely.

I had heard that in the beginning it was a concern raised by compliance but that there was pushback on the idea unless certain conditions were met with regards to the scope of the cheating and who knew... and it's my impression those conditions might not have been met, but I was surprised to see them release another statement that mentioned "self-sanctioning" if it wasn't a realistic possibility.

 

[DogDaysIrish]

I agree, I don't know if anyone knows up or down bu the longer this drags on the better I feel. At one point about two weeks ago I would've bet on us vacating wins, but now I'm coming back more towards it being simply unclear.

Self-sanctioning has been mentioned after that, but I don't think they've outright talked about vacating wins.

There's a pretty decent source on Scout that allegedly has indicated it seems unlikely.

I had heard that in the beginning it was a concern raised by compliance but that there was pushback on the idea unless certain conditions were met with regards to the scope of the cheating and who knew... and it's my impression those conditions might not have been met, but I was surprised to see them release another statement that mentioned "self-sanctioning" if it wasn't a realistic possibility.

I truly believe that was just ND staying ahead of the NCAA in terms of policing themselves to keep them off their arse until everything was done. I don't think it was ever seriously a consideration unless all hell broke loose, but it was placed on the table to show the boys in Indianapolis that they were seriously pursuing this situation and that all means of discipline were in play. In the end, It won't be necessary. Play on.

 

[Huntr]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>Updated story. University spokesman tells Tribune that Russell, Williams and Daniels no longer enrolled at <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/ND?src=hash">#ND</a>
<a href="http://t.co/SNeqmxOLfQ">http://t.co/SNeqmxOLfQ</a></p>— Bob Wieneke (@BWienekeNDI) <a href="https://twitter.com/BWienekeNDI/status/537389028430319616">November 25, 2014</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[BobbyMac]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>Updated story. University spokesman tells Tribune that Russell, Williams and Daniels no longer enrolled at <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/ND?src=hash">#ND</a>
<a href="http://t.co/SNeqmxOLfQ">http://t.co/SNeqmxOLfQ</a></p>— Bob Wieneke (@BWienekeNDI) <a href="https://twitter.com/BWienekeNDI/status/537389028430319616">November 25, 2014</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Is that news? I thought they had to drop out this semester and sit out next spring to be ready next fall? Did I miss something?

.

 

[Huntr]

The news is that they are now officially not enrolled. They were earlier this month.


Hid that info in the linked article. I'm sneaky like that.

 

[BobbyMac]

The news is that they are now officially not enrolled. They were earlier this month.


Hid that info in the linked article. I'm sneaky like that.

I wasn't asking if your post was news but rather wheat the school official was saying.

I thought it was common knowledge that they were going to have to drop out this semester?

In that case, weren't they officially un-enrolled as soon as the punishments were handed out?

Is the lag because this is not public info and the expulsion date (or whatever it is to be coined) was actually when the decisions were announced?

.

 

[IrishLax]

Not news. Everyone knew they were going to have to drop out this semester and sit spring too and then MAYBE try to re-enroll for summer session/next fall.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Keith Arnold just published a new post titled "Moore says Notre Dame treated Frozen Five fairly":

“I’ll just explain to them that with the whole investigation … that what it all came down to was just a violation of school policy,” Moore said. “It wasn’t a cheating scandal. We violated a school policy as far as the honor code goes and as far as peer editing goes.

“It ended up being a situation where Notre Dame holds their academics to a high standard, and nobody’s getting mad about that. We knew the whole situation, what we were getting into as far as the whole high academic prowess and stuff.

“We all understood what was going on. We all said there were mistakes made on everybody’s part, and we’re just looking to move past it and get on to the next chapter of our lives.”

 

[phork]

Man I wish Daniels could/would have stayed for one more year.

 

[Irish Insanity]

The timetable is my only issue. They seem to hang out to dry forever.