Immigration

[dshans]

I would...aren't you in Florida?

Yup.

I miss Minnesota.

 

[dshans]

Hell, who in their right (or left) mind would want to spend an afternoon with dshans drinking beer now?

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/u4D0yx4DvBk" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

It sent my spirits soaring.

It almost made the results of that Navy game tolerable.

 

[phgreek]

Yup.

I miss Minnesota.

Gotta be a joke about Drinks on the rocks and your rocks being frozen...too tired to make it.

Why not do both...I understand MN is an Mfer in the winter...my preference would be Sedona in the winter, but lots of folks do Florida.

 

[kmoose]

It sent my spirits soaring.

It almost made the results of that Navy game tolerable.

At least we got good weather...

 

[dshans]

I'd drop everything and run to have one more beer with my grandfather. I'm sure your children or grandchildren would do the same.

No grands in the offing.

My one child, a son turning 30 in July, is engaged but with no date set as yet.

My maternal grandfather died a year before I was born. My paternal Irish grandfather passed when I was fourteen. No go.

I did have the chance to hoist a beer or three with my maternal grandmother (she made it to 100) and wish my maternal grandmother a happy 88th b-day with a Manhattan.

I lost my little sister in 2011 due to idiopathic pulmonary fibrosis. She was 54. My brother, 67, has been diagnosed with the same damn thing.

My twin sister has been diagnosed with early onset Alzheimers ... I've noticed the effects since I was very familiar with it all with my mother, her mother, her brother and an uncle'

I have PAD, a family tradition among the males. I'm arranging for surgery ... when Florida Blue, my primary care physician and the cardio vascular surgeon can get their shit together.

Four months and counting since I "set the wheels in motion."

If I stop showing up in "Word Game," you can guess why.

Sorry for the downer, pardon my digression, but my brother starting his "Farewell Tour" has hit me.

Hard.

 

[Buster Bluth]

I was talking about illegals...based on your own data they are demonstrably low skilled. As well it is disingenuous to ignore children of immigrants who DO receive aid...and even if you attribute the same percentage rate of welfare fraud as is perpetrated by citizens to the illegal population, that is money worth having...so this idea that no new illegals means it isn't a problem is just not something I am willing to cede...and I really don't GAF where they come from.

Edit: as for employment...seriously, how many illegals are skilled. They didn't all go home, which means the non-skilled job pool, shrinking as it is, makes it harder to have illegals here...you make it sound as if they've all gone home.

Welfare fraud and "money worth having" is pretty much accounted for by the usage taxes being paused. Sales tax, gas tax, tolls, fraudulent FICA, etc. Their presence itself is an increase in demand for products, boosting jobs inherently. They make up the population of Ohio, it's a lot of costumers.

I never stated they all went home. Some have. Plenty of kids here and stayed. I'm saying if they don't have income they are pressured to find it elsewhere. They aren't eligible to sit at the unemployment line.

And there is no evidence that their presence drives up the unemployment rate an appreciable amount. We saw this trial run in Miami with Cubans too. Productive economies create jobs. Economists agree that we would need a tsunami of immigrants to drive up unemployment.

Wages though, are a different story. But given that illegal immigration hasn't increased from Mexico in a decade, it is your side that needs to justify a wall and figure out how to handle the 12 million (7ish from Mexico) who are here. It looks like a fait accompli to me.

 

[Buster Bluth]

Based on their immigration policies, we'll be describing it as Japanese for the foreseeable future.

I understand they have unresolved economic problems, but they are not willing to gamble on the safety of their citizens or the future of their culture/country on the idea that mass immigration will be the answer to their economic problems.

They seem more interested in fixing their own economic and low birth issues with their own citizens - provide incentives to increase native birth rates and use automation to replace a dying workforce. That strikes me as more reasonable than mass immigration.

We can grab beers in thirty years and talk about how this one played out.

Dude Japan is a lesson in what not to do.

America built it's greatness on welcoming people from everywhere. Well, "welcoming." Japan has a long history if xenophobic tendencies with their exposure to the outside world. Maybe that's to be expected of an island country.

They put themselves in jeopardy by not allowing a healthy amount of immigrants.

 

[phgreek]

Welfare fraud and "money worth having" is pretty much accounted for by the usage taxes being paused. Sales tax, gas tax, tolls, fraudulent FICA, etc. Their presence itself is an increase in demand for products, boosting jobs inherently. They make up the population of Ohio, it's a lot of costumers.

I never stated they all went home. Some have. Plenty of kids here and stayed. I'm saying if they don't have income they are pressured to find it elsewhere. They aren't eligible to sit at the unemployment line.

And there is no evidence that their presence drives up the unemployment rate an appreciable amount. We saw this trial run in Miami with Cubans too. Productive economies create jobs. Economists agree that we would need a tsunami of immigrants to drive up unemployment.

Wages though, are a different story. But given that illegal immigration hasn't increased from Mexico in a decade, it is your side that needs to justify a wall and figure out how to handle the 12 million (7ish from Mexico) who are here. It looks like a fait accompli to me.

I don't think your analysis is inclusive in a total ownership cost way of thinking...I do not believe the tax revenues offset the actual lifetime costs of having illegal immigrants here.

to the point we were discussing...The pool of low skilled jobs is evaporating. Having illegals here, and allowing more in that do not have a skill only exacerbates that problem. There is no way around that point.

Wall or no wall, its dumb to allow more unskilled labor in here rather legal or illegal.

I mean...you did make fun of Trump for saying he could bring back mining and assembly type jobs right? There was a ton of people who voted for him yes? So they are fools, yes? Never coming back, yes? So what percentage of the 11ish million people here illegally have an engineering degree, an accounting degree, an IS degree??? So WTF are those people doing boss? Further, it is your side who thinks we oughta just give everyone already here citizenship...then they WOULD be eligible for assistance at some point. So even if we said...music stops, amnesty...no more illegals. We would have a problem with skills mix in the population we have, inclusive of citizens and non-citizens.

The point being made was...if you do not stop illegal immigration, and apply some criteria based on what this nation needs with regard to immigration you do no one favors.

 

[connor_in]

‘Crime does pay!’ Report: San Francisco awarding $190K to illegal immigrant turned over to ICE – twitchy.com


<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="und" dir="ltr"><a href="https://t.co/o5dlRDdkS4">https://t.co/o5dlRDdkS4</a></p>— The Safest Space (@TheSafestSpace) <a href="https://twitter.com/TheSafestSpace/status/880555724408889344">June 29, 2017</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[Legacy]

‘Crime does pay!’ Report: San Francisco awarding $190K to illegal immigrant turned over to ICE – twitchy.com


<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="und" dir="ltr"><a href="https://t.co/o5dlRDdkS4">https://t.co/o5dlRDdkS4</a></p>— The Safest Space (@TheSafestSpace) <a href="https://twitter.com/TheSafestSpace/status/880555724408889344">June 29, 2017</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

San Francisco To Pay Undocumented Immigrant $190K For Violating Sanctuary Policy

More than Twitchy headlines

The city approved a Sanctuary City policy in 1989 prohibiting city officials from enforcing immigration laws in most cases as a way to encourage immigrant communities to trust and cooperate with police.

A second 2013 ordinance, Due Process for All, prohibits San Francisco law enforcement from detaining people on behalf of immigration authorities for deportation unless they are wanted for a serious crime.

Figueroa-Zarceno’s attorneys said the ICE document released Friday indicates that the sheriff’s department contacted ICE on Dec. 2 stating that a “final order fugitive” had been contacted by San Francisco police.

At the same time, the document states, a San Francisco police officer contacted the ICE duty officer directly and told him Figueroa-Zarceno was at the police station. He was taken into custody by ICE around half an hour later.

Unless "Crime does pay" refers to settlements for violating city policy and ordinances...

 

[phgreek]

San Francisco To Pay Undocumented Immigrant $190K For Violating Sanctuary Policy

More than Twitchy headlines


Unless "Crime does pay" refers to settlements for violating city policy and ordinances...

Rubbin a little salt in...dumb

I'm guessing that guy better never leave the bay area...somehow he and his 190K or headed out of this country if he does...

 

[Legacy]

The Trump voters facing deportation

Why are Iraqi Christians facing deportation from US? (BBC, video)

 

[Legacy]

Immigration transformed this rural Alabama town; the principal fought to keep the school together (al.com)

Sand Mountain is Alabama's slice of Appalachia, a once-remote area that in the past few decades has directly experienced the kinds of divisive issues constantly in the national news: immigration, job outsourcing, the war on drugs. But it's a region too long defined by its challenges rather than its resilience.

In this multi-part series for AL.com, we'll take you up to Sand Mountain and show you a world in transition. Get to know this place through the people who live there, who are working to mend what's broken and restore their communities.

 

[Legacy]

In new study, professor and undergraduate find economic benefits of admitting refugees outweigh costs (ND College of Arts and Letters Newsletter)

Although working-age adult refugees who enter the United States often initially rely on public assistance programs, a study by researchers at the University of Notre Dame indicates that the long-term economic benefit of admitting refugees outweighs the initial costs.

The study, published as a National Bureau of Economic Research working paper this week, was conducted by William Evans, Keough-Hesburgh Professor of Economics, and Daniel Fitzgerald, undergraduate research assistant at Notre Dame’s Wilson Sheehan Lab for Economic Opportunities, or LEO. The study is a comprehensive assessment of the fiscal costs and benefits of refugee resettlement in the United States.

Using data from the U.S. Census Bureau’s American Community Survey, Evans and Fitzgerald analyzed the costs and benefits of resettling an average refugee who entered the United States between 1990 and 2014.

 

[Legacy]

Trump ending DACA in six months? Middle of spring semester. How many universities will declare themselves sanctuary campuses or join in a lawsuit?
Open Borders, Corporate Interests Brace for End of DACA (Breitbart)

 

[Legacy]

Sen. Cardin 'Confident' Congress Could Pass Immigration Bill

"If the Republican leadership will bring a bill to the floor of the Senate and the House, I'm confident we could pass [an immigration] bill," Cardin told CNN's "New Day" program. "The Senate did that a few years ago. We passed comprehensive immigration reform that did deal with the dreamers."

New York threatens to sue if Trump ends DACA

Impotence of the last Congress to act on immigration may finally force them to act in an already packed September agenda.

 

[N_D_Fighting_Irish]

In new study, professor and undergraduate find economic benefits of admitting refugees outweigh costs (ND College of Arts and Letters Newsletter)

Bullshit. 15k to resettle? My ass. Net benefit long term? Unskilled unvetted labor does nothing but drives the wages working class Americans to third world levels. Worse than the economic cost is the cost to our way of life. These immigrants have no desire to become Americans...they are only here for money...if they cared to be Americans they would have respected the laws of this country and entered the country legally.

 

[Buster Bluth]

Net benefit long term?

Well the net benefit long term is a boost in GDP, maintaining a younger population that can extend the life of SS/Medicare, keep up with China/India on population so we have a puncher's chance of being the #1 world power in 2100, etc.

Immigrants also start companies at twice the rate of native-born Americans.

Unskilled unvetted labor does nothing but drives the wages working class Americans to third world levels.

So the flip side is it increases the purchasing power of Americans, is that what you're saying? There is a degree of wage pressure, no doubt about that. But 1) Americans haven't shown a willingness to work picking vegetables (See: Alabama), and 2) wake me up when Republicans aren't backing right-to-work laws in an effort to gut the negotiating power of unions.

I work in the construction industry, in my experience it's not the Mexicans putting people out of work. If you're not on drugs and can show up on time, you'll have a job.

Back to the topic: the taxes they pay despite not being eligible for entitlement/retirement programs provides a one-way subsidy of Americans' vital Social Security/Medicare programs, that's noteworthy. The usage taxes on things like the sales tax, property tax, gas tax, tolls, etc etc etc etc are also enormous. The demand for goods and services is also enormous, and creates jobs.

Worse than the economic cost is the cost to our way of life. These immigrants have no desire to become Americans...they are only here for money...

Bullshit on the former, and so what on the latter. Your ancestors didn't come here because they thought George Washington was the bee's knees, they came because of the economic opportunity to build a better life as Americans. It's not much different today.

if they cared to be Americans they would have respected the laws of this country and entered the country legally.

I'm going to take a wild guess and say that you don't have the slightest clue just how byzantine and stupid our immigration processes are.

It's also probably worth noting that the "we're not ignorant xenophobes, we actually like legal immigration a lot!" is an excuse that was torn to shreds when Donald Trump came out saying that we should slash legal immigration by 50% a few weeks ago.

 

[Legacy]

Bullshit. 15k to resettle? My ass. Net benefit long term? Unskilled unvetted labor does nothing but drives the wages working class Americans to third world levels. Worse than the economic cost is the cost to our way of life. These immigrants have no desire to become Americans...they are only here for money...if they cared to be Americans they would have respected the laws of this country and entered the country legally.

The study by the ND researchers focused on refugees resettled in the U.S. based on Census records from 1994-2010 not illegal immigrants.

 

[wizards8507]

Bullshit on the former, and so what on the latter. Your ancestors didn't come here because they thought George Washington was the bee's knees, they came because of the economic opportunity to build a better life as Americans. It's not much different today.

It's also probably worth noting that the "we're not ignorant xenophobes, we actually like legal immigration a lot!" is an excuse that was torn to shreds when Donald Trump came out saying that we should slash legal immigration by 50% a few weeks ago.

Isolating these paragraphs because I think they're the most relevant. The problem with open borders immigration, whether legal or otherwise, is that it doesn't allow for assimilation. No, our ancestors didn't come here thinking George Washington was the bee's knees, but they came around to that way of thinking as they adopted American culture. They came to Ellis Island but then their kids learned English, rooted for the Yankees, and fought in two world wars.

 

[Buster Bluth]

Isolating these paragraphs because I think they're the most relevant. The problem with open borders immigration, whether legal or otherwise, is that it doesn't allow for assimilation. No, our ancestors didn't come here thinking George Washington was the bee's knees, but they came around to that way of thinking as they adopted American culture. They came to Ellis Island but then their kids learned English, rooted for the Yankees, and fought in two world wars.

It was, is, and will always be a two-way street chief. Each generation is different than the one before it. There has never been a timeless and strict "American culture." But our general American culture is being spread around the world every day, and people like it. Turns out, people like freedoms, sports, and consumerism. Immigrants are no different, it's why they work so hard laying brick to afford this better lifestyle.

You present a very sloppy version of events. Fact is most first-generation immigrants don't learn perfect English, and previous waves of immigrants weren't shedding their native tongue either. Hell the federal government went ahead and cracked down on German-language newspapers during World War I, and there were certainly clashes with German-language protestant churches too.

But their kids are put through the public school system and turn out as American as you and I. They root for pro-sports teams, they join the military, they jump all of the weird hoops that you set out for them.

Things would be much different if we were taking on Muslims by the millions, like Europe did. I have no respect for the idea of welcoming people who don't appreciate things like equality of women and minorities, and secular government. But that's what makes the American immigration matter a no-brainer, our pool of low-skill labor is Mexican/Central American, Christian, and very assimilate-able.

 

[N_D_Fighting_Irish]

Well the net benefit long term is a boost in GDP, maintaining a younger population that can extend the life of SS/Medicare, keep up with China/India on population so we have a puncher's chance of being the #1 world power in 2100, etc.

Immigrants also start companies at twice the rate of native-born Americans.



So the flip side is it increases the purchasing power of Americans, is that what you're saying? There is a degree of wage pressure, no doubt about that. But 1) Americans haven't shown a willingness to work picking vegetables (See: Alabama), and 2) wake me up when Republicans aren't backing right-to-work laws in an effort to gut the negotiating power of unions.

I work in the construction industry, in my experience it's not the Mexicans putting people out of work. If you're not on drugs and can show up on time, you'll have a job.

Back to the topic: the taxes they pay despite not being eligible for entitlement/retirement programs provides a one-way subsidy of Americans' vital Social Security/Medicare programs, that's noteworthy. The usage taxes on things like the sales tax, property tax, gas tax, tolls, etc etc etc etc are also enormous. The demand for goods and services is also enormous, and creates jobs.



Bullshit on the former, and so what on the latter. Your ancestors didn't come here because they thought George Washington was the bee's knees, they came because of the economic opportunity to build a better life as Americans. It's not much different today.



I'm going to take a wild guess and say that you don't have the slightest clue just how byzantine and stupid our immigration processes are.

It's also probably worth noting that the "we're not ignorant xenophobes, we actually like legal immigration a lot!" is an excuse that was torn to shreds when Donald Trump came out saying that we should slash legal immigration by 50% a few weeks ago.

Maintain a younger population? Corporate America has outsourced all the decent jobs and pushed for open borders to the point that prudent middle and lower classes have to make a financial decision whether to have children. There was a time when one income could support a family. Not anymore. Spare me the Americans won't do the job. They will do the job as long as the pay is commensurate to the work.

Illegal immigrants are not eligible for anything yet they take advantage of entitlements..welfare, Medicare,Medicaid, and tax subsidized schooling. So the buying power you speak of is an illusion, corporate America reaps the profits stemming from cheap labor and the American taxpayer covers the economic and social costs. You espouse the same arguments that were made in the 80's and Reagan gave those illegal immigrants Amnesty...here we are again. This time the giving nature of Americans have nearly reached their limit. Of course, if we don't accept Amnesty, we are Nazis and ignorant xenophobes.

 

[N_D_Fighting_Irish]

It was, is, and will always be a two-way street chief. Each generation is different than the one before it. There has never been a timeless and strict "American culture." But our general American culture is being spread around the world every day, and people like it. Turns out, people like freedoms, sports, and consumerism. Immigrants are no different, it's why they work so hard laying brick to afford this better lifestyle.

You present a very sloppy version of events. Fact is most first-generation immigrants don't learn perfect English, and previous waves of immigrants weren't shedding their native tongue either. Hell the federal government went ahead and cracked down on German-language newspapers during World War I, and there were certainly clashes with German-language protestant churches too.

But their kids are put through the public school system and turn out as American as you and I. They root for pro-sports teams, they join the military, they jump all of the weird hoops that you set out for them.

Things would be much different if we were taking on Muslims by the millions, like Europe did. I have no respect for the idea of welcoming people who don't appreciate things like equality of women and minorities, and secular government. But that's what makes the American immigration matter a no-brainer, our pool of low-skill labor is Mexican/Central American, Christian, and very assimilate-able.

There is a naivety in your comment. Back then, there wasn't affirmative action or diversity officers milking the taxpayer and cultivating a generation of victims and ethnic strife. Being white or espousing white/American culture wasn't vilified as it now. What culture are these immigrants going to assimilate to? You can burn the flag, tear down monuments, and riot as an illegal and at the same time demand the rights of US citizens....do you really think it will be the same?

 

[Buster Bluth]

Maintain a younger population? Corporate America has outsourced all the decent jobs and pushed for open borders to the point that prudent middle and lower classes have to make a financial decision whether to have children. There was a time when one income could support a family. Not anymore. Spare me the Americans won't do the job. They will do the job as long as the pay is commensurate to the work.

Illegal immigrants are not eligible for anything yet they take advantage of entitlements..welfare, Medicare,Medicaid, and tax subsidized schooling. So the buying power you speak of is an illusion, corporate America reaps the profits stemming from cheap labor and the American taxpayer covers the economic and social costs. You espouse the same arguments that were made in the 80's and Reagan gave those illegal immigrants Amnesty...here we are again. This time the giving nature of Americans have nearly reached their limit. Of course, if we don't accept Amnesty, we are Nazis and ignorant xenophobes.

Ugh.

Yes, maintain a younger population. In case you missed it, the developed world is aging--quickly. It's worse in Europe and much worse in Japan. This will cause these nations to fade into economic oblivion if they don't change course, which is why you see Europe take on immigrants out of desperation. Demographics do not lie, and you can see the problem decades before it hits.

No, corporate America hasn't outsourced "all the decent jobs." For every 1 job outsourced, 7 were eliminated by automation. So for every 1,000,000 factory jobs lost to China or Mexico, 7,000,000 were lost to machines improving. In other words, just ~12.5% of "all the decent jobs" were eliminated via outsourcing.

This is the percentage of jobs in manufacturing, note the spike for World War II production....and then a remarkably consistent shift to other sectors. Please, point out where NAFTA causes a massive drop, or China joining the WTO, etc.

I am fully behind strengthening the bargaining power of employees and believe wage growth is one of the biggest problems with the US economy, but outsourcing and immigration aren't half the boogeyman you want them to be (because, I'd guess, they're easy targets).

Please note: illegal immigrants are not eligible for "welfare, Medicare, Medicaid, and tax subsidized schooling." In fact not even legal immigrants are eligible for welfare and such immediately. And please note that illegal immigrants who fraudulently obtain a job generate more than 11 billion annually in tax receipts for Social Security, Medicare, etc despite being ineligible to obtain benefits.

Again yeah it's pretty hard to shake the ignorant xenophobe moniker when people walk around spouting inaccurate talking points and back a guy who makes boneheaded moves just to appease said ignorance.

There are a number of factors that have lead to the middle class' reduction, illegal immigration and outsourcing aren't where I'd start.

 

[Buster Bluth]

There is a naivety in your comment. Back then, there wasn't affirmative action or diversity officers milking the taxpayer and cultivating a generation of victims and ethnic strife. Being white or espousing white/American culture wasn't vilified as it now. What culture are these immigrants going to assimilate to? You can burn the flag, tear down monuments, and riot as an illegal and at the same time demand the rights of US citizens....do you really think it will be the same?

Jesus you're just boiling all sorts of separate talking points into one easily digestible stew.

 

[NDinL.A.]

Of course, if we don't accept Amnesty, we are Nazis and ignorant xenophobes.

Nah, I'd call you an ignorant xenophobe because, judging by your posts, you're clearly an ignorant xenophobe. It's really that simple.

And btw, you're a fucking "illegal" too. I'm just not a dick so I don't refer to you as one, but you're just as "illegal" as the next guy.

 

[Legacy]

Pope Francis: Immigrants and Refugees Are Not ‘Our Enemies’ (Breitbart)

 

[connor_in]

Interesting coverage of Twitter thread by from lawyer Eric Columbus who worked for team Obama on DACA:

¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Obama lawyer who worked on DACA admits it’s probably unconstitutional

 

[N_D_Fighting_Irish]

Ugh.

Yes, maintain a younger population. In case you missed it, the developed world is aging--quickly. It's worse in Europe and much worse in Japan. This will cause these nations to fade into economic oblivion if they don't change course, which is why you see Europe take on immigrants out of desperation. Demographics do not lie, and you can see the problem decades before it hits.

No, corporate America hasn't outsourced "all the decent jobs." For every 1 job outsourced, 7 were eliminated by automation. So for every 1,000,000 factory jobs lost to China or Mexico, 7,000,000 were lost to machines improving. In other words, just ~12.5% of "all the decent jobs" were eliminated via outsourcing.

This is the percentage of jobs in manufacturing, note the spike for World War II production....and then a remarkably consistent shift to other sectors. Please, point out where NAFTA causes a massive drop, or China joining the WTO, etc.

I am fully behind strengthening the bargaining power of employees and believe wage growth is one of the biggest problems with the US economy, but outsourcing and immigration aren't half the boogeyman you want them to be (because, I'd guess, they're easy targets).

Please note: illegal immigrants are not eligible for "welfare, Medicare, Medicaid, and tax subsidized schooling." In fact not even legal immigrants are eligible for welfare and such immediately. And please note that illegal immigrants who fraudulently obtain a job generate more than 11 billion annually in tax receipts for Social Security, Medicare, etc despite being ineligible to obtain benefits.

Again yeah it's pretty hard to shake the ignorant xenophobe moniker when people walk around spouting inaccurate talking points and back a guy who makes boneheaded moves just to appease said ignorance.

There are a number of factors that have lead to the middle class' reduction, illegal immigration and outsourcing aren't where I'd start.

You sound like me about a decade ago. I used those same arguments. Then, I woke up. There are number of potential solutions to declining birth rates but mass unvetted uncontrolled immigration is the least effective and most costly. One solution is addressing the media's attack on traditional families, Christian religion, and gender roles. The relentless propaganda has created a generation of godless, amoral know it alls that know nothing.

We disagree on the economic costs of unfettered immigration, but there is a far greater long term cost: rule of law. Who is legal who isn't? Who has rights who doesn't? Do states have the power to overrule Federal laws? DACA was a federal proposal. Arizona challenged it and lost. Now, the Federal government wants to cancel it, and now the New York is going to sue to block cancellation. Something tells me New York will win. The laws in this country are becoming meaningless...except if you are not a protected class.

Regarding your second valid point about automation, I agree, but I find it hard why you cannot connect the dots. Automation requires high skilled labor. How does unfettered illegal legal immigration of low skill labor going to address that? Will it not further tax the social safety net? Unfettered immigration exacerbate the problems caused by automation.
Of course, Corporate American has addressed the supposed need for high skilled labor by taking advantage of the H1B visa program. Why pay Americans the market wages when you could hire outside the country pennies on the dollar? Adding insult to injury, these companies require Americans to train them.

Xenophobic..haha. Read some history regarding our immigration laws and wake up. 1965 immigration act. Read what they claimed and what happened. The establishment has given up on American dream. They are prepping for an integrated North America. Clinton would have been our Merkel. Thank god enough Americans woke up and were not afraid of being called names. Trump isn't perfect and he may be a mirage. To the dying thirsty American, a mirage is better than nothing.

 

[N_D_Fighting_Irish]

Nah, I'd call you an ignorant xenophobe because, judging by your posts, you're clearly an ignorant xenophobe. It's really that simple.

And btw, you're a fucking "illegal" too. I'm just not a dick so I don't refer to you as one, but you're just as "illegal" as the next guy.

Yawn. I believe people should be treated equally. I have more care and understanding regarding immigrants than you. You are the wretched passive exploiter. Under the guise of feelings and kindness, you allow the rampant exploitation of these immigrants...not me. If they want to be a part of this country, they must respect our laws. Nothing more. It irritates me to no end to watch some of these DACA "dreamers" to show their ingratitude. Shoot a bird and demanding give them what they have for most part stolen.