IE HOF Poll: Manti Te'o

[Whiskeyjack]

I could easily see how someone would feel that his scandal disqualifies him based on #2. There are plenty of people, not only outside our fanbase, but within it that believe that Teo knew that she was fake well before the title game and lied to maintain the "grieving hero". That deception, if one felt it was true, would certainly not be up to the standards of the values Notre Dame represents.

That's like saying, "I can see how people who believe America faked the moon landing might have mixed feelings about Buzz Aldrin." The dude's an American hero, full stop, and the fact that some credulous idiots believe a crackpot conspiracy theory doesn't change anything.

At this point, it's pretty clear that Te'o was duped and didn't mislead anyone in an attempt to boost his Heisman campaign. If there are any Irish fans here who still believe that vicious slander against one of our own, they need to be corrected.

Regarding those standards being high, that same person may feel that they absolutely should be. That the moniker is the highest honor, and by definition, extremely exclusive. Left only for those that absolutely nailed all three of the criteria.

If your standard is so high that no ND player in recent memory makes the cut, that's a strong indication there's a problem with your standard, and not with the exceptional young men our program regularly turns out. Then again, one need only browse Rock's House for a few moments to understand that absurdly unrealistic standards and general self-loathing seem to be quite common among our fan base...

Ahh yes....the staple of a good liberal democracy....voter intimidation.

That's not what Men of Action are wearing these days:

 

[gkIrish]

Updated NO list.

CHIDomer9, SoIll, Voltaire

I am curious to know why they voted No.

 

[MNIrishman]

I think the respective bowl games showed that Manziel deserved it. Nothing against Te'o, but I don't think you deserve the Heisman if you get trampled in the biggest game of the year and your defense that you lead looks like a MAC defense. I know he had a lot on his mind and that Diaco's defense was asking to get shredded, but looking back on it after that game, I did not feel like Te'o got snubbed at all in the voting.

Irrelevant because that game wasn't a data point at voting time. You know what was? JM's arrest. The fact that he threw for a collective 3 interceptions and 0 td against LSU and Florida. The fact that Manti embodied everything the Heisman is supposed to stand for, while Manziel was a child who blew it in 2/3 of his most important games. Might as well use their NFL careers to say who deserved the Heisman if we're using games that took place after the trophy was awarded.

 

[arrowryan]

No

 

[gkIrish]

No

Go on

 

[MNIrishman]

No

"Victims of fraud have no place in polite society."

 

[GowerND11]

No

Why?

 

[arrowryan]

Go on

"Victims of fraud have no place in polite society."

Why?

The girlfriend hoax was absolutely ridiculous and was very embarrassing. The NFL and the money that came with it got to his head and he turned into an asshole. Example: he was at a college party in South Bend the year after he graduated and was charging money to the girls that wanted to take a picture with him lol. Who does that?

Also, in the student section for the Michigan game we wore leis in honor of his girlfriend lol. That was so shitty

If there is a model Notre Dame student athlete, Jaylon is your guy

I nominate Theo Riddick

 

[irishfan]

I don't really care if anyone votes No. I voted Yes, but honestly I was tempted to vote No. Duped or not, he certainly played up the dead girlfriend angle a lot more than warranted in the media. All those interviews he did were cringe-worthy looking back on them. He certainly wasn't in on it, but he's the one who created and then threw gasoline on the story initially. People will argue that he was trying to make sure everyone knew she was a great person and someone to be remembered...maybe he should have met with her (fake) family before doing every media interview possible.

No one else thinks it's absolutely ridiculous that we had feature stories about a girlfriend who Te'o never saw once in his life? I don't think it's being honest to act like Te'o was some massive victim and that he didn't soak up the media attention a bit. Being honest from the start ("my online girlfriend died" as opposed to "my girlfriend died right after my grandmother died") would have stopped this embarrassing story before it began.

 

[MNIrishman]

The girlfriend hoax was absolutely ridiculous and was very embarrassing. The NFL and the money that came with it got to his head and he turned into an asshole. Example: he was at a college party in South Bend the year after he graduated and was charging money to the girls that wanted to take a picture with him lol. Who does that?

If there is a model Notre Dame student athlete, Jaylon is your guy

I nominate Theo Riddick

So your reasoning is...Manti was a victim of fraud and therefore is now a bad person. That and some baseless rumors. Got it.

 

[Luckylucci]

The girlfriend hoax was absolutely ridiculous and was very embarrassing. The NFL and the money that came with it got to his head and he turned into an asshole. Example: he was at a college party in South Bend the year after he graduated and was charging money to the girls that wanted to take a picture with him lol. Who does that?

If there is a model Notre Dame student athlete, Jaylon is your guy

I nominate Theo Riddick

Thats a toolish move no doubt about it. However, if everytime people did something toolish, we took away 4 years of positive things they'd done, this world would be unbearable. Tough audience.

 

[arrowryan]

Thats a toolish move no doubt about it. However, if everytime people did something toolish, we took away 4 years of positive things they'd done, this world would be unbearable. Tough audience.

He was no doubt a great player, I would never debate that. But I'm not gonna be like Oprah and just give the title "ND Man" so easily.

A "Notre Dame man" should have absolutely zero baggage IMO

 

[woolybug25]

That's like saying, "I can see how people who believe America faked the moon landing might have mixed feelings about Buzz Aldrin." The dude's an American hero, full stop, and the fact that some credulous idiots believe a crackpot conspiracy theory doesn't change anything.

At this point, it's pretty clear that Te'o was duped and didn't mislead anyone in an attempt to boost his Heisman campaign. If there are any Irish fans here who still believe that vicious slander against one of ND's recent heroes, they need to be corrected.

I would say it's more along the lines of someone thinking a President should have been impeached. Hell, I think all Presidents are American Heroes, but that doesn't mean that it's ridiculous for someone to think Reagan was a bafoon or Clinton should have been impeached. People are entitled to their opinion and many would argue that Teo's "grieving hero" persona is what made him so special, and if they think he fabricated it, then it's totally reasonable to use that as justification. If he lied about the relationship for personal gain, that isn't "unfair expectations" for a high honor. I would argue that for many, it isn't clear that he was simply duped. While you and I agree on that, it simply isn't fair to dismiss anyone that doesn't walk lock step in our beliefs. If they disagree that he lied, then it's their perogative to vote no in a public vote.

If your standard is so high that no ND player in recent memory makes the cut, that's a strong indication there's a problem with your standard, and not with the exceptional young men our program regularly turns out. Then again, one need only browse Rock's House for a few moments to understand that absurdly unrealistic standards and general self-loathing seem to be quite common among our fan base...

I don't think that not voting for Teo would mean that they wouldn't vote for anyone else. Last I checked; Jaylon didn't have a scandal, Martin didn't lie about a fake girlfriend, etc, etc. The three minimum qualifications were set and it's easy to see how there are plenty of current players eligible, and in my opinion, how one could potentially see Teo not meeting standard #2 (character).

I voted yes for Teo... Just a reminder...

 

[ulukinatme]

Speaking of standards, have we described what "Notre Dame Man" means? Is it: (1) displaying excellence on the football field; (2) embodying ND's values off the football field; or (3) some combination of the two? Unless someone is advocating for the 2nd standard, and disqualifying any candidate that doesn't appear pure as the driven snow, I can't see Te'o failing to make the cut under any of them.

I honestly think excellence on the football field should have little or nothing to do with the title. Plenty of great players come through the university, but have they contributed off the field? Have they persevered through challenges to be successful? It's one thing to be a great football player, it's another to be a true team player and do what's best for others than what's best for oneself. These men should be shining examples to their teammates or the university off the field (like a Father Hesburgh), or they should have overcome some hurdles to success (Like a Mike Anello).

 

[koonja]

He was no doubt a great player, I would never debate that. But I'm not gonna be like Oprah and just give the title "ND Man" so easily.

A "Notre Dame man" should have absolutely zero baggage IMO

I disagree with you in this case, but reps for giving an explanation.

 

[GowerND11]

He was no doubt a great player, I would never debate that. But I'm not gonna be like Oprah and just give the title "ND Man" so easily.

A "Notre Dame man" should have absolutely zero baggage IMO

Everyone has baggage. a Notre Dame man isn't perfect.

 

[koonja]

I honestly think excellence on the football field should have little or nothing to do with the title. Plenty of great players come through the university, but have they contributed off the field? Have they persevered through challenges to be successful? It's one thing to be a great football player, it's another to be a true team player and do what's best for others than what's best for oneself. These men should be shining examples to their teammates or the university off the field (like a Father Hesburgh), or they should have overcome some hurdles to success (Like a Mike Anello).

Yeah but so much goes on behind the scenes and off the field that you and I have no clue about. So I think the one thing we can 100% judge as well as anyone should factor, that being the field performance.

 

[arrowryan]

Everyone has baggage. a Notre Dame man isn't perfect.

I'll rephrase my original statement. A Notre Dame Man shouldn't have obvious baggage like having a fake dead girlfriend

 

[GowerND11]

I'll rephrase my original statement. A Notre Dame Man shouldn't have obvious baggage like having a fake dead girlfriend

Right, but he didn't know she was fake.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

The girlfriend hoax was absolutely ridiculous and was very embarrassing. The NFL and the money that came with it got to his head and he turned into an asshole. Example: he was at a college party in South Bend the year after he graduated and was charging money to the girls that wanted to take a picture with him lol. Who does that?

"I personally had a negative experience with Te'o once" is as close to a legitimate reason for voting no that I can imagine. Though I'm sure you can appreciate the difficulty in applying that sort of anecdotal evidence as a general standard. The vast majority of Irish fans have never interacted with any of these guys before. So we're basically voting on their public achievements and personas.

I don't really care if anyone votes No. I voted Yes, but honestly I was tempted to vote No. Duped or not, he certainly played up the dead girlfriend angle a lot more than warranted in the media. All those interviews he did were cringe-worthy looking back on them. He certainly wasn't in on it, but he's the one who created and then then threw gasoline on the story initially. People will argue that he was trying to make sure everyone knew she was a great person and someone to be remembered...maybe he should have met with her (fake) family before doing every media interview possible.

No one else thinks it's absolutely ridiculous that we had feature stories about a girlfriend who Te'o never saw once in his life? I don't think it's being honest to act like Te'o was some massive victim and that he didn't soak up the media attention a bit. Being honest from the start ("my online girlfriend died" as opposed to "my girlfriend died right after my grandmother dies") would have stopped this embarrassing story before it began.

(1) Te'o was a sheltered Mormon kid; (2) surely you can understand why he wasn't eager to advertise that he had never met "Kekua"; and (3) it's not clear to me how much of it was Te'o valorizing himself vs. the media picking up and running with an amazing story.

I assume that most of the "No" votes are guys who were embarrassed by the Kekua scandal and hold that against Te'o personally. Which is a really petty and self-centered thing to do. Makes me wonder why any recruit would commit to play for ND when a large portion of our fanbase is apparently willing to so quickly write off even a great like Te'o.

 

[ulukinatme]

Need a new rule: no vote shamming. Right or wrong, let people vote how they want to vote. It should probably be an anonymous poll. If users want to explain why they voted one way or another, that's up to them to provide their reasons if they so choose.

 

[koonja]

Teo was a 5 star that skipped over USC on his way to the midwest, started for 3 years, decided to come back and graduate, led us to a national title, bringing legitimacy to our program for the first time in 20+ years, and hit like a truck. ND man.

 

[gkIrish]

I assume that most of the "No" votes are guys who were embarrassed by the Kekua scandal and hold that against Te'o personally. Which is a really petty and self-centered thing to do. Makes me wonder why any recruit would commit to play for ND when a large portion of our fanbase is apparently willing to so quickly write off even a great like Te'o.

Let's not overreact. A handful of people is not a 'large portion of the fanbase."

 

[MNIrishman]

Need a new rule: no vote shamming. Right or wrong, let people vote how they want to vote. It should probably be an anonymous poll. If users want to explain why they voted one way or another, that's up to them to provide their reasons if they so choose.

Vote shaming probably wouldn't be as big a deal for most players. Manti tends to evoke strong feelings. The only other one I think who would be this controversial is Tommy "Greased Lightning" Rees.

 

[arrowryan]

Right, but he didn't know she was fake.

Considering he obviously never met her in person, the idea that she could be fake should've at least been a thought of his.

Again, he was a tremendous player but he was a part of the most embarrassing moments in recent ND history and is the butt of almost all new Notre Dame jokes

 

[MNIrishman]

Teo was a 5 star that skipped over USC on his way to the midwest, started for 3 years, decided to come back and graduate, led us to a national title, bringing legitimacy to our program for the first time in 20+ years, and hit like a truck. ND man.

More than the hard hitting was the consistency. It's not often you get a player who just doesn't fail like Manti. The only time I remember him having a decidedly bad game was the NC.

 

[gkIrish]

Need a new rule: no vote shamming. Right or wrong, let people vote how they want to vote. It should probably be an anonymous poll. If users want to explain why they voted one way or another, that's up to them to provide their reasons if they so choose.

No one is required to give an explanation or vote at all. But we are allowed to ask for an explanation. Doesn't mean we will get one.

 

[NDohio]

Need a new rule: no vote shamming. Right or wrong, let people vote how they want to vote. It should probably be an anonymous poll. If users want to explain why they voted one way or another, that's up to them to provide their reasons if they so choose.

I sort of agree, but when the voting is a landslide like this one is, I think an explanation of voting against the majority is the right thing to do.

I do respect everyone's reason for voting regardless if I agree or not.

 

[koonja]

Honestly, the only legitimate argument against Teo is that he was never known to have 6 pack abs.

 

[ulukinatme]

Yeah but so much goes on behind the scenes and off the field that you and I have no clue about. So I think the one thing we can 100% judge as well as anyone should factor, that being the field performance.

Field performance is a horrible metric for an award like this. When you search "Notre Dame man" online it typically points to an outstanding member of the community or alumni that goes above and beyond. If we're judging players based on athletic performance, does that mean a Jaylon Smith is more highly regarded than a Mike Anello? One is a freakish athlete, the other was a walk on that gave the same effort but wasn't necessarily as athletic. Jaylon has hundreds more tackles over his career than Mike, but Mike had a lot more to overcome to his success. There are no Butkus awards for Mike Anello, that's the point.