How many more chances does Golson get?

[koonja]

Me in the Rice thread:



Me in the Purdue thread:



Me in the Syracuse thread (sarcastically):



Stanford thread:



North Carolina thread:



After that, we started losing and everyone jumped on my bandwagon. I've been nothing if not consistent.

Wizards 85:07 says, "I am the voice calling out in the wilderness, 'Make straight the way for Malik.'"

Reputation points. When you're right, you're right.

 

[wizards8507]

I shudder to think how you'll act when Golson starts all of next year.

My frustration has never been with Golson, it's been with the people who hold him up like he's our own Johnny Manziel. We have an occasionally brilliant, occasionally infuriating quarterback. That averages out to something along the lines of "pretty good," and "pretty good" quarterbacks don't win Heisman trophies; nor should they be immune from criticism or a temporary benching if things aren't going well on a given Saturday. All I hope we get from Kelly is a bowl game start or some kind of meaningful snaps for Malik so we (and Kelly) can see what he has. That's what kills me the most. Giving Malik a SHOT to show what he can do is a far cry from benching Golson forever and always and never letting him sniff the field again. If Malik plays and sucks, you put Golson back in there. I just hate having a less-than-stellar starter with a GIANT question mark warming the bench behind him. Malik just might prove to be stellar. Or he could be terrible. Either way, there's no way for us (or Kelly) to know if he insists on riding Golson through every single low point, no matter how low.

 

[ulukinatme]

I think you absolutely should start Malik in the bowl game, although I'm not sure Kelly will do it. Malik has put the work in, he's got 2 years in the system now, and he's been patient about seeing the field. He's had basically no snaps prior to USC, not even really garbage time because we never got away from anyone but Michigan this year. Golson isn't going to win or lose the season for us at this point, I think it's more important to see what we have in Malik and get him the experience.

 

[Hammer Of The Gods]

My frustration has never been with Golson, it's been with the people who hold him up like he's our own Johnny Manziel. We have an occasionally brilliant, occasionally infuriating quarterback. That averages out to something along the lines of "pretty good," and "pretty good" quarterbacks don't win Heisman trophies; nor should they be immune from criticism or a temporary benching if things aren't going well on a given Saturday. All I hope we get from Kelly is a bowl game start or some kind of meaningful snaps for Malik so we (and Kelly) can see what he has. That's what kills me the most. Giving Malik a SHOT to show what he can do is a far cry from benching Golson forever and always and never letting him sniff the field again. If Malik plays and sucks, you put Golson back in there. I just hate having a less-than-stellar starter with a GIANT question mark warming the bench behind him. Malik just might prove to be stellar. Or he could be terrible. Either way, there's no way for us (or Kelly) to know if he insists on riding Golson through every single low point, no matter how low.

I'm with you on this. Start Malik, Short leash him, if he blows Put Golson in. Have a open competition in the spring...again. Our QB situation every year is baffling. Can we get someone to play consistent, high level football?? Is that too much to ask for?

To add on...

I really Hope Kelly just picks a starter for the game and rolls with it through the practices. I don't want a competition leading up to the Bowl game. If there is a competition, I can almost Guarantee Golson Starts.

 

[GBdomer]

From TJ aka GBdomer

Honestly, I'm not sure even BK and his offensive staff know the answers here at this time. I believe they're quite stunned at the performance downturn over the latter portion of the season, and certainly aren't sure where EG's mindset, confidence and demeanor are right now. It's probably item #1 on the current "to do/figure out/fix it" list for bowl preps and through spring ball.

They know what they've got in Malik for the most part. The remaining issue is passing game development and sophistication for him. He (and Kizer, who is promising) need more reps and work, but should it come at EG's "expense"? It's not clear yet to them, but is item #1.

 

[Rocket89]

My frustration has never been with Golson, it's been with the people who hold him up like he's our own Johnny Manziel. We have an occasionally brilliant, occasionally infuriating quarterback. That averages out to something along the lines of "pretty good," and "pretty good" quarterbacks don't win Heisman trophies; nor should they be immune from criticism or a temporary benching if things aren't going well on a given Saturday. All I hope we get from Kelly is a bowl game start or some kind of meaningful snaps for Malik so we (and Kelly) can see what he has. That's what kills me the most. Giving Malik a SHOT to show what he can do is a far cry from benching Golson forever and always and never letting him sniff the field again. If Malik plays and sucks, you put Golson back in there. I just hate having a less-than-stellar starter with a GIANT question mark warming the bench behind him. Malik just might prove to be stellar. Or he could be terrible. Either way, there's no way for us (or Kelly) to know if he insists on riding Golson through every single low point, no matter how low.

It just seems odd to take a position against a hyper superfan view on Golson. I just don't really care about that at all.

Look, the only way Zaire starts the bowl game is if Golson mentally goes into the tank over the next few weeks. If that happens obviously it's largely on Golson himself. However, I think a lot of people are being shockingly cavalier about sitting Golson just to get Zaire more playing time and "see what he can do."

I will be very surprised if that happens. It's far more important for Golson to get the bad taste of the USC game out of his mouth, cement his leadership with the offense, and go into spring ball with some momentum. That is the path to giving the team its highest ceiling next year. Trying to shoehorn a Zaire era right now can be fraught with disaster.

If Malik plays and sucks, you put Golson back in there.

But Golson is the starter until proven otherwise. If Golson sucks--which it appears many here seem to think is fact--then don't worry Zaire will get his chance.

Kicking Golson to the curb so quickly opens up so much more criticism and unnecessary quarterback controversy that simply isn't healthy for the program. Like I said, I don't think enough people are realizing what a clusterf*ck could grow out of that decision UNLESS it's so obvious that Golson has checked out.

 

[Irish#1]

I won't be surprised to see the snaps divided up between EG and MZ in the bowl game. It tells EG that his position is up for grabs and if he wants to keep it, he better step up. It also tells MZ that if he commits extra time during the off season that he can win the position.

If EG is the starter next year, he will be on a very short leash.

 

[ickythump1225]

Me in the Rice thread:



Me in the Purdue thread:



Me in the Syracuse thread (sarcastically):



Stanford thread:



North Carolina thread:



After that, we started losing and everyone jumped on my bandwagon. I've been nothing if not consistent.

Wizards 85:07 says, "I am the voice calling out in the wilderness, 'Make straight the way for Malik.'"

I actually thought about saying you've been the one consistent person. As annoying as I find your posts sometimes at least you have been consistent.

 

[Luckylucci]

NVM GB's got it.

 

[wizards8507]

Look, the only way Zaire starts the bowl game is if Golson mentally goes into the tank over the next few weeks. If that happens obviously it's largely on Golson himself.

Golson has been mentally tanking since September.

However, I think a lot of people are being shockingly cavalier about sitting Golson just to get Zaire more playing time and "see what he can do."

If Golson was playing stellar football, nobody would be saying any such thing just to "see what Malik can do." People wan't to "see what he can do" because Golson has been terrible at times.

I will be very surprised if that happens. It's far more important for Golson to get the bad taste of the USC game out of his mouth, cement his leadership with the offense, and go into spring ball with some momentum.

Leadership? When has Golson EVER shown leadership? Skill? Sure. Talent? You bet. But leadership? When?

That is the path to giving the team its highest ceiling next year. Trying to shoehorn a Zaire era right now can be fraught with disaster.

What makes you think it'll lead to such a high ceiling next year when it clearly didn't lead to a particularly high ceiling THIS year? We're not in some vacuum here. We have a full season of football to reflect on and I can't see how anyone watches Golson's fumbles, interceptions, inability to run the zone read, and questionable decision making and still think he's so clearly the best option.

But Golson is the starter until proven otherwise.

Again, based on what? Why must that be the case? People have been clamoring for Johnny Manziel all season, and Brian Hoyer hasn't been nearly as bad as Golson.

 

[ickythump1225]

Golson has been mentally tanking since September.


If Golson was playing stellar football, nobody would be saying any such thing just to "see what Malik can do." People wan't to "see what he can do" because Golson has been terrible at times.


Leadership? When has Golson EVER shown leadership? Skill? Sure. Talent? You bet. But leadership? When?


What makes you think it'll lead to such a high ceiling next year when it clearly didn't lead to a particularly high ceiling THIS year? We're not in some vacuum here. We have a full season of football to reflect on and I can't see how anyone watches Golson's fumbles, interceptions, inability to run the zone read, and questionable decision making and still think he's so clearly the best option.


Again, based on what? Why must that be the case? People have been clamoring for Johnny Manziel all season, and Brian Hoyer hasn't been nearly as bad as Golson.

People clamor for backup QBs all the time. You should know. There are people out there who hated Rees, clamored for whatever crappy back up we had, then Rees gets benched. People clamor for Rees. EG gets suspended, Rees starts. People clamored for Andrew f**king Hendrix! There is a reason 99.9999% of football fans will never make a meaningful football decision for their favorite team, because they are shortsighted and imprisoned by the moment. BK has made some mistakes this season, but not listening to a guy who was calling for EG to benched after the RICE GAME(!) was not one of them.

 

[wizards8507]

People clamor for backup QBs all the time. You should know. There are people out there who hated Rees, clamored for whatever crappy back up we had, then Rees gets benched. People clamor for Rees. EG gets suspended, Rees starts. People clamored for Andrew f**king Hendrix! There is a reason 99.9999% of football fans will never make a meaningful football decision for their favorite team, because they are shortsighted and imprisoned by the moment. BK has made some mistakes this season, but not listening to a guy who was calling for EG to benched after the RICE GAME(!) was not one of them.

I never said any such thing. My position has always been "Golson is good but not as great as people are acting." The first time I even entertained the idea that he should be benched was during the nosedive at Arizona State.

 

[Rocket89]

Golson has been mentally tanking since September.


If Golson was playing stellar football, nobody would be saying any such thing just to "see what Malik can do." People wan't to "see what he can do" because Golson has been terrible at times.


Leadership? When has Golson EVER shown leadership? Skill? Sure. Talent? You bet. But leadership? When?


What makes you think it'll lead to such a high ceiling next year when it clearly didn't lead to a particularly high ceiling THIS year? We're not in some vacuum here. We have a full season of football to reflect on and I can't see how anyone watches Golson's fumbles, interceptions, inability to run the zone read, and questionable decision making and still think he's so clearly the best option.


Again, based on what? Why must that be the case? People have been clamoring for Johnny Manziel all season, and Brian Hoyer hasn't been nearly as bad as Golson.

This is my mistake for thinking you could discuss the situation with a level head.

 

[IrishLax]

The legitimate gripe with Golson is that mentally he hasn't progressed seemingly at all, and has maybe even regressed.

He's late getting the ball out. Has been all year. He holds it until the receiver "wins" and then makes the throw. He also misses wide open guys far too often. The number of times Will Fuller has beaten coverage and Golson has completely missed him is sad, but even more sad are the number of times guys get wide open in the middle of the field and he misses them. I'm guessing height/sight lines are a large component.

Pre-snap, he's mentally inferior to where you'd expect a senior to be. He's only in his second year as a starter but he's had 3 springs and 3 regular seasons of learning the position. He has shown little or no ability to take "control" pre-snap... but this might also be on the coaches, as the whole "check with me" thing is almost surely by design.

Worst of all though, his leadership is terrible. Leadership is very hard to quantify and measure, but in short his body language is poor and he does almost nothing to take ownership/command of the offense. You don't see him demanding accountability from anyone, but that seems reasonable when you see the way he shrugs off accountability and tunes out Kelly on the sideline.

Your QB has to be a leader and cannot be timid or act shell-shocked. The only time I've seen Golson get animated and demand more from the team was against Purdue. Malik Zaire, by contrast, took vocal charge in the USC game the minute he was tapped to go in. He tried to get guys fired up and to give maximum effort.

I still think Golson is the starter next year and that he can be a great QB, but from Northwestern onward I have been really disappointed with how he exudes a "don't want to be here" type of attitude on the sideline... and how he still can't get the ball out on time to wide open guys.

 

[ulukinatme]

Golson was so successful in high school, I wonder if that's had a negative effect on his college maturation/development. It's easy to be positive when things are going good, like a 12-0 regular season, but when you lose 5 of your last 6 games I think you may see what your players are really like. Your learn more in defeat than you do in victory. Golson never really experienced a lot of defeat in high school, that may be something he needs to learn from if he really is going to be our QB.

 

[IRISH in MT]

Wow did I miss something? Did EG rape a woman or kill a man? Because some of you are kicking a man while he's down and there's no need for that. 7 weeks ago I'm sure most of you thought EG was a Heisman contender and now he's "not a leader, he's selfish, etc." Give me a break.

What has he done that has so personally offended some of you that you're acting like jilted lovers? All he's done is play his heart out for 12 games this year. Don't give me "oh he's mentally weak," bulls**t. He was getting his ass kicked over and over again against ASU and he kept getting back up and fighting.

REALLY?! He sure looked the part of a good teammate sitting alone at the end of the bench at U$C and didn't even give Malik one bit of encouragement.

Yeah so he made some mistakes and we started losing oh well in the long run that stuff isn't that important. It's a game, it's an extracurricular activity. Everett Golson isn't Jameis Winston or Cam Newton. His biggest sins include cheating in college (I'm sure more than a few of you are guilty of that) and having some bad games. Grow up and stop piling on the kid.

This is like Tommy Rees all over again. The vitriol towards TR was disgusting and what makes me ever more sick is now all of a sudden people want to go back and white wash Rees' record and act like they supported him all along.

I'm not saying EG should be the starter anymore but I'll support him no matter what role the coaches choose for him so long as he wears the blue and gold. It's one thing to critique his play or say that perhaps MZ would give us a better shot but all of these personal attacks on his integrity and his leadership is little kid stuff. But then again this board lately seems to love to question the ethics, integrity, and leadership of the head coach and the starting QB.

Relax man. NOBODY has called for a public lynching in the town square (yet). Sometimes the truth hurts a little. Like em or not, facts are facts. We are not attacking him with false accusations. Bottom line is he doesn't show respect towards BK when he is clearly in the wrong, didn't support the team after he got benched + got booted for cheating. If that is leadership and integrity then I was taught wrong. He has self proclaimed he has grown up and matured since coming back and frankly, it doesn't show.

 

[Circa]

Wow did I miss something? Did EG rape a woman or kill a man? Because some of you are kicking a man while he's down and there's no need for that. 7 weeks ago I'm sure most of you thought EG was a Heisman contender and now he's "not a leader, he's selfish, etc." Give me a break.

What has he done that has so personally offended some of you that you're acting like jilted lovers? All he's done is play his heart out for 12 games this year. Don't give me "oh he's mentally weak," bulls**t. He was getting his ass kicked over and over again against ASU and he kept getting back up and fighting.

Yeah so he made some mistakes and we started losing oh well in the long run that stuff isn't that important. It's a game, it's an extracurricular activity. Everett Golson isn't Jameis Winston or Cam Newton. His biggest sins include cheating in college (I'm sure more than a few of you are guilty of that) and having some bad games. Grow up and stop piling on the kid.

This is like Tommy Rees all over again. The vitriol towards TR was disgusting and what makes me ever more sick is now all of a sudden people want to go back and white wash Rees' record and act like they supported him all along.

I'm not saying EG should be the starter anymore but I'll support him no matter what role the coaches choose for him so long as he wears the blue and gold. It's one thing to critique his play or say that perhaps MZ would give us a better shot but all of these personal attacks on his integrity and his leadership is little kid stuff. But then again this board lately seems to love to question the ethics, integrity, and leadership of the head coach and the starting QB.

As the world turns.... I agree with everything you posted. I'm starting to really understand the disdain other fans have for 'us' as a fanbase.
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[Irish Insanity]

#Golson4Heisman2015

 

[GBdomer]

Hopefully Brandon Wimbush has some Deshaun Watson in his game. I did like seeing Malik Zaire all fired up and showing leadership on Saturday. Something Golson has never shown or isn't comfortable showing. Which is fine, but you are the QB man. This is your team and I think he shouldered to much of that load on himself. In a good way and bad way

 

[wizards8507]

This is my mistake for thinking you could discuss the situation with a level head.

Right. Attack me personally rather than address my points and I'M the one who can't discuss things with a level head.

 

[GBdomer]

Right. Attack me personally rather than address my points and I'M the one who can't discuss things with a level head.

I am with you brotha, no attacking people and then hiding!

 

[ulukinatme]

I still believe in Reesus. Woe to you non-believers!

 

[Rocket89]

Right. Attack me personally rather than address my points and I'M the one who can't discuss things with a level head.

It's a waste of time addressing your points because they are doused in so much hyperbole. It's funny, but predictable, that you think I was attacking you personally.

 

[stlnd01]

Golson was so successful in high school, I wonder if that's had a negative effect on his college maturation/development. It's easy to be positive when things are going good, like a 12-0 regular season, but when you lose 5 of your last 6 games I think you may see what your players are really like. Your learn more in defeat than you do in victory. Golson never really experienced a lot of defeat in high school, that may be something he needs to learn from if he really is going to be our QB.

I've been wondering about this too. Until the last few weeks, the book on Golson has always been that he's "a winner." Florida State was, what, the third loss in his entire career? And for all his turnover troubles, he also kept us in a lot of these games. But by the USC game he just looked beat down.
Finding ways to win is important, but learning how to come back from losing is important, too. Hopefully he does that and keeps growing.

 

[stlnd01]

Golson was so successful in high school, I wonder if that's had a negative effect on his college maturation/development. It's easy to be positive when things are going good, like a 12-0 regular season, but when you lose 5 of your last 6 games I think you may see what your players are really like. Your learn more in defeat than you do in victory. Golson never really experienced a lot of defeat in high school, that may be something he needs to learn from if he really is going to be our QB.

I've been wondering about this too. Until the last few weeks, the book on Golson has always been that he's "a winner." Florida State was, what, the third loss in his entire career? And for all his turnover troubles, he also kept us in a lot of these games - even if part of the reason we were in the hole was his mistakes. But by the USC game he just looked beat down all around, and he played like it.
Finding ways to win is important, but learning how to come back from losing is important, too. Hopefully he does that and keeps growing.

 

[IrishinSyria]

I've been wondering about this too. Until the last few weeks, the book on Golson has always been that he's "a winner." Florida State was, what, the third loss in his entire career? And for all his turnover troubles, he also kept us in a lot of these games - even if part of the reason we were in the hole was his mistakes. But by the USC game he just looked beat down all around, and he played like it.
Finding ways to win is important, but learning how to come back from losing is important, too. Hopefully he does that and keeps growing.

I'm pretty convinced that Golson' shoulder was still bothering him in the USC game.

I'm also pretty convinced that there's not a QB in the country who could have won at USC given how our line, receivers, and defense played.

 

[stlnd01]

Golson was so successful in high school, I wonder if that's had a negative effect on his college maturation/development. It's easy to be positive when things are going good, like a 12-0 regular season, but when you lose 5 of your last 6 games I think you may see what your players are really like. Your learn more in defeat than you do in victory. Golson never really experienced a lot of defeat in high school, that may be something he needs to learn from if he really is going to be our QB.

I've been wondering about this too. Until the last few weeks, the book on Golson has always been that he's "a winner." Florida State was, what, the third loss in his entire career? And for all his turnover troubles, he also kept us in a lot of these games - even if part of the reason we were in the hole was his mistakes. But by the USC game he just looked beat down all around, and he played like it.
Finding ways to win is important, but learning how to come back from losing is important, too. Hopefully he does that and keeps growing.

 

[tankjeep]

Wow did I miss something? Did EG rape a woman or kill a man? Because some of you are kicking a man while he's down and there's no need for that. 7 weeks ago I'm sure most of you thought EG was a Heisman contender and now he's "not a leader, he's selfish, etc." Give me a break.

What has he done that has so personally offended some of you that you're acting like jilted lovers? All he's done is play his heart out for 12 games this year. Don't give me "oh he's mentally weak," bulls**t. He was getting his ass kicked over and over again against ASU and he kept getting back up and fighting.

Yeah so he made some mistakes and we started losing oh well in the long run that stuff isn't that important. It's a game, it's an extracurricular activity. Everett Golson isn't Jameis Winston or Cam Newton. His biggest sins include cheating in college (I'm sure more than a few of you are guilty of that) and having some bad games. Grow up and stop piling on the kid.

This is like Tommy Rees all over again. The vitriol towards TR was disgusting and what makes me ever more sick is now all of a sudden people want to go back and white wash Rees' record and act like they supported him all along.

I'm not saying EG should be the starter anymore but I'll support him no matter what role the coaches choose for him so long as he wears the blue and gold. It's one thing to critique his play or say that perhaps MZ would give us a better shot but all of these personal attacks on his integrity and his leadership is little kid stuff. But then again this board lately seems to love to question the ethics, integrity, and leadership of the head coach and the starting QB.

i'm not personally attacking EG, just making an observation on his demeanor and body language. and based on that observation, i feel he's having leadership issues. that's about it.

 

[Irish#1]

The legitimate gripe with Golson is that mentally he hasn't progressed seemingly at all, and has maybe even regressed.

He's late getting the ball out. Has been all year. He holds it until the receiver "wins" and then makes the throw. He also misses wide open guys far too often. The number of times Will Fuller has beaten coverage and Golson has completely missed him is sad, but even more sad are the number of times guys get wide open in the middle of the field and he misses them. I'm guessing height/sight lines are a large component.

Pre-snap, he's mentally inferior to where you'd expect a senior to be. He's only in his second year as a starter but he's had 3 springs and 3 regular seasons of learning the position. He has shown little or no ability to take "control" pre-snap... but this might also be on the coaches, as the whole "check with me" thing is almost surely by design.

Worst of all though, his leadership is terrible. Leadership is very hard to quantify and measure, but in short his body language is poor and he does almost nothing to take ownership/command of the offense. You don't see him demanding accountability from anyone, but that seems reasonable when you see the way he shrugs off accountability and tunes out Kelly on the sideline.

Your QB has to be a leader and cannot be timid or act shell-shocked. The only time I've seen Golson get animated and demand more from the team was against Purdue. Malik Zaire, by contrast, took vocal charge in the USC game the minute he was tapped to go in. He tried to get guys fired up and to give maximum effort.

I still think Golson is the starter next year and that he can be a great QB, but from Northwestern onward I have been really disappointed with how he exudes a "don't want to be here" type of attitude on the sideline... and how he still can't get the ball out on time to wide open guys.

Hard to hold others accountable when you're fumbling and throwing INT's all the time.

 

[wizards8507]

It's a waste of time addressing your points because they are doused in so much hyperbole. It's funny, but predictable, that you think I was attacking you personally.

Do you know what hyperbole is? I meant every word I wrote 100% literally.

Golson has been mentally tanking since September.

If Golson was playing stellar football, nobody would be saying any such thing just to "see what Malik can do." People wan't to "see what he can do" because Golson has been terrible at times.

Leadership? When has Golson EVER shown leadership? Skill? Sure. Talent? You bet. But leadership? When?

What makes you think it'll lead to such a high ceiling next year when it clearly didn't lead to a particularly high ceiling THIS year? We're not in some vacuum here. We have a full season of football to reflect on and I can't see how anyone watches Golson's fumbles, interceptions, inability to run the zone read, and questionable decision making and still think he's so clearly the best option.

Again, based on what? Why must that be the case? People have been clamoring for Johnny Manziel all season, and Brian Hoyer hasn't been nearly as bad as Golson.