Help with a Notre Dame hater

[ACamp1900]

Okay, long to short, I work with a guy who can not stand ND... period.He's been very much on the war path and very annoying lately. Today it finally got to "Notre Dame is no different than any random SEC school, they cheat, their students don't go to class, and they take dumb shit players, that can't read or write, who are well below the minimum academic standards of any average students just like everyone else."

When I stated the contrary i got, 'Impossible, I will NEVER believe ND doesn't accept players just for football who would never qualify for the local state college academically, and that ND makes their players go to class and or do their own work."

So, here is my question, is there any easily presentable data, articles, school statutes, anything that state clearly what we all know through following the basic recruiting process?? That ND does not accept academic waivers (like taking Mckenzie without upping scores, or taking any random five star who can't read)?? I would love to show something like that to this clown.

Major thanks to anyone who can help.

 

[Jebediah Springfield]

Did you ask him how he came to that conclusion?

Is it the everyone does it, therefore ND does it argument?

 

[ACamp1900]

Did you ask him how he came to that conclusion?

Is it the everyone does it, therefore ND does it argument?

Basically yes... ND is no different than any random D1 football factory academcially... used Dinardo as an example of the 'dumb shit, sub human, ND players who clearly never attended classes."

 

[ResLife Hero]

Randy Moss is a pretty famous example and Alquadin Muhammad is a more recent one.

 

[ACamp1900]

Randy Moss is a pretty famous example and Alquadin Muhammad is a more recent one.

I tried that... he said, "If Randy Moss can possibly get into Notre Dame what does that tell you."

I need something in writing, from the school, or in an article, something that states ND doesn't make waivers just because a kid can play ball.

 

[Jebediah Springfield]

Maybe an article about the UNC scandal and compare that to the fact that Golson and DD (both starters) got kicked out for a semester??

 

[ACamp1900]

Maybe an article about the UNC scandal and compare that to the fact that Golson and DD (both starters) got kicked out for a semester??

Gues what his alma mater is??? Tried that too... UNC got caught doing what Notre Dame gets away with... Golson talking the BK weekly and getting a QB coach was the most dirty thing in the history of college football... seriously, this guy can not comprehend that one at all... his war path basically started with Golson.

 

[irishMT]

“Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.”

― Mark Twain

 

[ACamp1900]

There has to be something documented somewhere.

 

[Jebediah Springfield]

Gues what his alma mater is??? Tried that too... UNC got caught doing what Notre Dame gets away with...

LMAO.

Honestly if it was me, I would facepalm and quote that one line "we are all stupider for listening to that" in Billy Madison. There is no hope for that guy.

*** I can be a major asshole

 

[Pachuco]

You're in a tough spot, man. Mostly because logic and belief are different things, and this guy seems to be basing his thoughts on resentment. It's unlikely facts will have much bearing on his viewpoint, especially when he frames his perspective with phrases like "I will never believe..."

I admire you taking up the good fight though...

 

[NDBoiler]

Okay, long to short, I work with a guy who can not stand ND... period.He's been very much on the war path and very annoying lately. Today it finally got to "Notre Dame is no different than any random SEC school, they cheat, their students don't go to class, and they take dumb shit players, that can't read or write, who are well below the minimum academic standards of any average students just like everyone else."

When I stated the contrary i got, 'Impossible, I will NEVER believe ND doesn't accept players just for football who would never qualify for the local state college academically, and that ND makes their players go to class and or do their own work."

So, here is my question, is there any easily presentable data, articles, school statutes, anything that state clearly what we all know through following the basic recruiting process?? That ND does not accept academic waivers (like taking Mckenzie without upping scores, or taking any random five star who can't read)?? I would love to show something like that to this clown.

Major thanks to anyone who can help.

Sounds like you're never going to convince him anyways, so just let him thnk that in blissful ignorance and don't worry about it!

 

[Pops Freshenmeyer]

ND's lack of JuCo players?

Here is Easterbrook's article on ND's graduation rate from last year. It's light in facts, however:

NCAA should celebrate Notre Dame's top athletic and academic rankings - ESPN

 

[ACamp1900]

ND's lack of JuCo players?

Here is Easterbrook's article on ND's graduation rate from last year. It's light in facts, however:

NCAA should celebrate Notre Dame's top athletic and academic rankings - ESPN

Reps... This is a good start... if anything can find something that addresses admissions also I'd realy be greatful.

 

[Kaneyoufeelit]

Reps... This is a good start... if anything can find something that addresses admissions also I'd realy be greatful.

Check your messages for a start. I'm reviewing my notes for something helpful that I would be allowed to share

 

[wizards8507]

Wait, are you trying to argue that ND doesn't have a different set of standards for athletes versus "regular" students?

 

[ACamp1900]

It has to be written down somewhere what the minimum academic standards/scores are for Notre Dame applicants and that special exemptions are NOT made to those standards for athletes... I just can’t find it.

 

[IrishLax]

Okay, long to short, I work with a guy who can not stand ND... period.He's been very much on the war path and very annoying lately. Today it finally got to "Notre Dame is no different than any random SEC school, they cheat, their students don't go to class, and they take dumb shit players, that can't read or write, who are well below the minimum academic standards of any average students just like everyone else."

When I stated the contrary i got, 'Impossible, I will NEVER believe ND doesn't accept players just for football who would never qualify for the local state college academically, and that ND makes their players go to class and or do their own work."

So, here is my question, is there any easily presentable data, articles, school statutes, anything that state clearly what we all know through following the basic recruiting process?? That ND does not accept academic waivers (like taking Mckenzie without upping scores, or taking any random five star who can't read)?? I would love to show something like that to this clown.

Major thanks to anyone who can help.

First of all, you can help uninformed, but you can't help "hater." I usually ignore it, because there is no winning a sports "argument" with someone who is set in their, but I know your situation. Third party articles and stats are your best friend. Inundate them with that shit until they say uncle.

For starters, point at graduation rates. Then point at how kicking your star QB out of school for cheating on a test is something that would NEVER happen at a southern school (See: institutionalized fake classes and professor aided sanctioned cheating by UNC, and the myriad of ESPN/other reporting on how messed up everything is in the south). Then point at all of the recruits... Marcus Griffin, Matt Elam, Byron Marshall, Anthony Standifer, etc... that are takes at SEC schools or other zero-academics places, but ND admissions would not accept them.

Finally, there is this: Beyond recovery: The story of Adam Sargent and Notre Dame - College Football - Pete Thamel - SI.com

No doubt student athletes are overall less intelligent by standard scholastic measures than the typical ND student... but the typical ND student is substantially more intelligent by standard measures than the average student at just about every single SEC school not named Vanderbilt. The idea that they aren't doing their own work or attending class couldn't be further from the truth though, and he has zero facts to support his position.

 

[Jebediah Springfield]

Wait, are you trying to argue that ND doesn't have a different set of standards for athletes versus "regular" students?

No. He's arguing with this

"Notre Dame is no different than any random SEC school, they cheat, their students don't go to class, and they take dumb shit players, that can't read or write, who are well below the minimum academic standards of any average students just like everyone else."

 

[IrishLax]

Gues what his alma mater is??? Tried that too... UNC got caught doing what Notre Dame gets away with... Golson talking the BK weekly and getting a QB coach was the most dirty thing in the history of college football... seriously, this guy can not comprehend that one at all... his war path basically started with Golson.

LOL he went to UNC!?!?!?!

Do you want to just post his phone number here and we can all take turns calling him and yelling facts until he hangs up?

And/or post his email and we can spam him.

 

[eNDzone]

“Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.”

― Mark Twain

No one is blinder than he who will not see. I have a someone I work with that is the same way. They have no evidence to back up what they say, just blind hatred. This same person praised Kelly as a coach until he was hired by ND and now can't stand anything he does.

The only thing you can point out to these blind men is the value of the ND degree and how almost every football player earns it by the time they leave. Some of these other schools that they are lumping ND in with practically give their degrees away and less than 2/3rds of their student athletes can walk out with a diploma.

 

[Kaneyoufeelit]

It has to be written down somewhere what the minimum academic standards/scores are for Notre Dame applicants and that special exemptions are NOT made to those standards for athletes... I just can’t find it.

No, because that isn't exactly the case. As I understand it, they don't have to be admitted on a sports-blind basis. The concern for admissions is a long-game will they graduate outlook. The school is more concerned with its grad rate than its median SAT scores.

UND.COM - University of Notre Dame Official Athletic Site - On Campus

ACADEMICS

Notre Dame dedicates itself to providing to all of its students an outstanding education. The University commits itself to developing in its students those disciplined habits of mind, body and spirit that characterize educated, skilled and free human beings. Notre Dame calls its students to pursue the wisdom of our culture and religious heritage, and to experience the human family's diversity and interdependence. To accomplish these objectives, the University provides to its students, on an equitable basis, ongoing opportunities to cultivate their moral, intellectual and physical well-being.

Basic Principles:

1. Any student hoping to succeed at the University needs a significant level of ability and preparation. Therefore, the Office of Undergraduate Admissions will accept into the University only those student-athletes who demonstrate, on the basis of the best available academic and character-based information, the capacity to complete a degree at Notre Dame.
2. Even for individuals manifestly well suited for Notre Dame, the adjustments to the rigors of academic and athletic life in a highly competitive university present difficulties. The University recognizes its responsibility to provide appropriate assistance to enable student-athletes to meet the demands of both academic and athletic competition. To this end, the University affords its student-athletes suitable academic counsel and support, primarily under the auspices of the Provost's Office. Other sources of support, both academic and personal, include the faculty, academic advisors, the residence-hall staff, coaches, athletics administrators and the Student Development Program.
3. The University strives to schedule practices and competitions so as to minimize conflicts with class periods and other academic assignments of student-athletes. In this regard, the rhythm of the academic year and the particular importance of final examinations warrant special attention. All playing schedules remain subject to the approval of the Faculty Board on Athletics.
4. Notre Dame expects its student-athletes to maintain the appropriate sequence and number of courses and the grade-point-average necessary to complete a degree within the usual time (normally four years), including summer classes when appropriate. Any exception to this policy remains subject to the approval of the Faculty Board on Athletics.

 

[wizards8507]

No. He's arguing with this:

"Notre Dame is no different than any random SEC school, they cheat, their students don't go to class, and they take dumb shit players, that can't read or write, who are well below the minimum academic standards of any average students just like everyone else."

Notre Dame DOES "take players who are well below the minimum academic standards of any average students."

 

[GoIrish41]

Do you really care what this guy thinks?

 

[ACamp1900]

Do you really care what this guy thinks?

On this particular issue, yes.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Notre Dame DOES "take players who are well below the minimum academic standards of any average students."

There's no need to play devil's advocate here. The guy ACamp needs to address is a salty UNC grad who thinks ND is involved in the same type of academic fraud that his alma mater recently got smacked for. That is definitely not the case.

 

[IrishLax]

I'd love for him to say that shit to the face of a recent grad like Sean Cwynar or Abro. Would be fucking hilarious to watch that unfold.

 

[Kaneyoufeelit]

The fact that we lose out on guys like AQM and Griffin because of foreign language credits is all the evidence you need that ND is different

 

[JughedJones]

Notre Dame DOES "take players who are well below the minimum academic standards of any average students."

There was a really good discussion the other day about how Notre Dame will consider students who fall below the GPA or SAT 'requirements' of purely academic students for a number of reasons.

Musicians, artists, athletes, differing backgrounds, etc., all add to a more diverse and interesting school.

 

[ACamp1900]

Notre Dame DOES "take players who are well below the minimum academic standards of any average students."

Well below the normal minimum acceptance standards.