George Zimmerman Trial

[GDomer09]

A slammed head into the ground looks much worse than the pics I have seen. Those are scratches...Most likely from tm being on the bottom of the fight and grabbing GZ's head to bring him down and not allow him to punch him. Logically speaking, in the recordings where you can hear the help cry our numerous times...that wouldn't sound like that if someone was getting their head beat into the ground. Those sound like someone held at gunpoint. They are in a pattern not parallel to an erratic fight. Regardless of whether GZ was a security guard, civilian or cop... TM should definatley go to see who is following him! I would, in fact I did when I was younger. If it's a cop or a security guard, get the situation handled and clear the air. If it is a civilian, even though he may say he is a security guard...you better be dressed like one or you wont be treated like one. Figure out why he is following you and act based upon your perceived threat level. Maybe GZ was trying to hold TM there until cops came and TM didn't want to see the cops, I wouldn't for no reason either. lol Too many maybes in this case but enough info for me to believe GZ should be locked up...maybe im in the minority though. Fact- TM has every right to walk to his parents home without disruption. Fact-GZ called cops on a person walking to their parents home. Fact-GZ approached a kid without probable cause and ultimately killed the kid.

On a lighter note, I had a great conversation with my step son last night about the topic of racism. He will not be afraid to stand up for what is right when the time comes.

It's a good thing the courts use facts to determine someone’s guilt instead of "MAYBES". The majority of the people who are up in arms about his trial are basing they're opinions on "what ifs" and "maybes". For the life of me I can't remember a case where so many people were inputting so many nonfactual details and diluting a story with their "what if" scenarios. Why is this happening?

Possible scenarios mean jackshart if you can't prove them!!!

 

[adsnorri]

It's a good thing the courts use facts to determine someone’s guilt instead of "MAYBES". The majority of the people who are up in arms about his trial are basing they're opinions on "what ifs" and "maybes". For the life of me I can't remember a case where so many people were inputting so many nonfactual details and diluting a story with their "what if" scenarios. Why is this happening?

Possible scenarios mean jackshart if you can't prove them!!!

"Fact- TM has every right to walk to his parents home without disruption. Fact-GZ called cops on a person walking to their parents home. Fact-GZ approached a kid without probable cause and ultimately killed the kid. "

Maybe you missed this part of my post? Haha. There is def grey area in the case but I was surprised on the outcome given said facts.

 

[FLDomer]

"Fact- TM has every right to walk to his parents home without disruption True and Legal. Fact-GZ called cops on a person walking to their parents home True and Legal. Fact-GZ approached a kid without probable cause Not true because he was going of description of suspects in the break ins and Legal and ultimately killed the kid.True but judged not murdered "

Maybe you missed this part of my post? Haha. There is def grey area in the case but I was surprised on the outcome given said facts.

.

 

[Wild Bill]

"Fact- TM has every right to walk to his parents home without disruption. Fact-GZ called cops on a person walking to their parents home. Fact-GZ approached a kid without probable cause and ultimately killed the kid. "

Maybe you missed this part of my post? Haha. There is def grey area in the case but I was surprised on the outcome given said facts.

Fact: It is not a crime to call the police.
Fact: A citizen does not need probable cause to approach anyone.
Fact: A citizen may use deadly force under certain circumstances.

 

[adsnorri]

.

I understand I am arguing against a judgement already made but I don't understand and would love a good explanation on how it is legal for him to follow and confront a kid that is doing nothing wrong and ultimately kill him after doing so.

I was unaware of the description of the person GZ was looking for? Saying there has been other break-ins doesn't count as probable cause to approach strangers. Can you elaborate on that because that would certainly give him every right to approach and I would feel a lot better about this whole case. Thanks,

 

[GoIrish41]

It's a good thing the courts use facts to determine someone’s guilt instead of "MAYBES". The majority of the people who are up in arms about his trial are basing they're opinions on "what ifs" and "maybes". For the life of me I can't remember a case where so many people were inputting so many nonfactual details and diluting a story with their "what if" scenarios. Why is this happening?

Possible scenarios mean jackshart if you can't prove them!!!

In fairness, Zimmerman's story was "a maybe" at best. It is his account, and the prosecution did a poor job of poking enough holes in to overcome reasonable doubt. According to the juror who gave the interview on CNN, the jury really didn't use facts to determine that Zimmerman was not guilty. Statements like "George's heart seemed to be in the right place" is not a fact, but an opinion ... a maybe ... a what if. If the jury would have decided the other way, Zimmerman supporters would be doing the same thing.

 

[kmoose]

"Fact- TM has every right to walk to his parents home without disruption. Fact-GZ called cops on a person walking to their parents home. Fact-GZ approached a kid without probable cause and ultimately killed the kid. "

Maybe you missed this part of my post? Haha. There is def grey area in the case but I was surprised on the outcome given said facts.

Fact: Trayvon Martin(through no fault of his own) was dressed similar to eyewitness accounts of the perpetrators of numerous break-ins, in the neighborhood.

Fact: Martin started a physical confrontation with Zimmerman, thereby setting himself up for being killed in self defense.

Fact: Zimmerman was found innocent by a jury of his peers......... whether you like it or not, he is innocent of any wrongdoing, in the eyes of the law.

 

[GoIrish41]

Fact: Martin started a physical confrontation with Zimmerman, thereby setting himself up for being killed in self defense.

Fact: Zimmerman was found innocent by a jury of his peers......... whether you like it or not, he is innocent of any wrongdoing, in the eyes of the law.

This is not a proven fact at all.

Fact: Zimmerman was found innocent by a jury of his peers......... whether you like it or not, he is innocent of any wrongdoing, in the eyes of the law.

this is not a fact either. there is a big distinciton in being found not guilty of a crime and being found "innocent." No court in the country finds defendents innocent.

 

[DomerInHappyValley]

This is not a proven fact at all.



this is not a fact either. there is a big distinciton in being found not guilty of a crime and being found "innocent." No court in the country finds defendents innocent.

But last I checked we are innocent until proven guilty.
He wasn't proven guilty and at this point your basically splitting hairs by saying that.

 

[Irish Houstonian]

...how it is legal for him to follow and confront a kid that is doing nothing wrong and ultimately kill him after doing so.

...

There was an attack that took place. Start there.

 

[kmoose]

This is not a proven fact at all.

The only "eyewitness" to the beginning of the physical confrontation is the g/f, and she testified, under oath, that she felt that TM swung first.

That's as close to a "fact" as it gets, without indisputable proof such as video.

 

[Irish Insanity]

FACT: A person (child as some argue) unnecessarily lost his life.

FACT: The person responsible for his death, wasn't held responsible

FACT: There are three sides to every story.

FACT: Only one person got to tell their side, the other is dead

FACT: The third side couldn't be formulated based on only one side being stated

 

[GoIrish41]

The only "eyewitness" to the beginning of the physical confrontation is the g/f, and she testified, under oath, that she felt that TM swung first.

That's as close to a "fact" as it gets, without indisputable proof such as video.

eyewitness means a witness who saw what happened. if I or someone else suggested that we "felt" this is what happened, we would be back to arguing about our ignorance of the "facts" of the case and defending ourselves from people saying we were interjecting our opinions. A fact is not something close to what happened, but exactly what happened. Nobody knows that, so to state "Fact: Martin started the physical confrontation" is not a fact at all but your opinion, no matter what any person who didn't see it happen says.

 

[Irish Houstonian]

FACT: A person (child as some argue) unnecessarily lost his life.

I don't think this can really be called a "fact" insofar as it was the issue in question at trial -- and a jury found that it wasn't proven beyond a reasonable doubt.

 

[Irish Insanity]

I don't think this can really be called a "fact" insofar as it was the issue in question at trial -- and a jury found that it wasn't proven beyond a reasonable doubt.

EDIT:

FACT: Someone (some argue a child) lost his life (I feel unnecessarily)

fixed it

 

[adsnorri]

Confronting people with bad intent and claiming SYG in the same sentence is not a citizen that should be acquitted of murder.

From my understanding there was an eyewitness. She was recorded as saying that the guy on top was wearing a white shirt. Neither had a white shirt but GZ had a light gray shirt as TM had a dark grey hoodie. The recording is the police recording, official I think. So in a case of maybes, you would think the most credible and timely maybes would be considered more valuable. Given the FACT that the murderer approached the victim as he was told not to, there seems enough speculation in my mind of something. HAHA

Anybody ever figure out why all the jurors were white ladies except one? Not thinking race conspiracy here but def intrigued by the jury.

 

[adsnorri]

Here is the link for the telephone calls I mentioned. AUDIO: The 911 Calls of Trayvon Martin's Death | Headlines - Randi Rhodes

 

[GoIrish41]

But last I checked we are innocent until proven guilty.
He wasn't proven guilty and at this point your basically splitting hairs by saying that.

I don't think I am. I am saying that the defense was successful in showing reasonable doubt and the jury agreed that there was reasonable doubt. To say the jury found him innocent is to suggest that they had absolutely no doubt. Even the juror who I found objectionable during her CNN interview suggested that there was a debate as to whether or not Zimmerman should be convicted of manslaughter, and that, for what it's worth, he demonstrated poor judgment in pursuing Martin and should have remained in his car. In the end, they found him not guilty of the charges ... they did not find him innocent.

 

[Rack Em]

FACT: A person (child as some argue) unnecessarily lost his life.

FACT: The person responsible for his death, wasn't held responsible

FACT: There are three sides to every story.

FACT: Only one person got to tell their side, the other is dead

FACT: The third side couldn't be formulated based on only one side being stated

He was arrested, tried, and found not guilty.

That's as responsible as the law can hold him. I'm not sure what some of you people want? Unfortunately the judicial process isn't perfect. But, in this case, it did everything it was designed to do.

 

[ACamp1900]

He was arrested, tried, and found not guilty.

That's as responsible as the law can hold him. I'm not sure what some of you people want? Unfortunately the judicial process isn't perfect. But, in this case, it did everything it was designed to do.

This all day.

I still don't know what to think about all this and it still baffles me how so many people are hard lined over what they feel happened...

I know this though, he was arrested, and tried before his peers and found not guilty... sorry, deal with it.

I also have to ask... what more do people actually want here, a lynch mob? A civil trial may very well be coming, take a breath and be patient...

On a side note, I found this quite interesting…

What No One Will Tell You About The George Zimmerman Case - Forbes

 

[IrishJayhawk]

I still don't know what to think about all this and it still baffles me how so many people are hard lined over what they feel happened...

This

 

[Irish Insanity]

He was arrested, tried, and found not guilty.

That's as responsible as the law can hold him. I'm not sure what some of you people want? Unfortunately the judicial process isn't perfect. But, in this case, it did everything it was designed to do.

He was still responsible for his death, and still wasn't held responsible. No matter the reason, its still a fact.

 

[gkIrish]

Really SIAP (looked through last couple pages)

A Message to Trayvon Martin Sympathizers | Romany Malco

Fantastic article.

 

[Wild Bill]

Confronting people with bad intent and claiming SYG in the same sentence is not a citizen that should be acquitted of murder.

Stand your ground was not used by the defense. It's just a talking point.

From my understanding there was an eyewitness. She was recorded as saying that the guy on top was wearing a white shirt. Neither had a white shirt but GZ had a light gray shirt as TM had a dark grey hoodie. The recording is the police recording, official I think. So in a case of maybes, you would think the most credible and timely maybes would be considered more valuable. Given the FACT that the murderer approached the victim as he was told not to, there seems enough speculation in my mind of something. HAHA

Did you hear the testimony of Zimmerman's expert witness? He was extremely convincing and the prosecution did nothing to rebut his testimony.

Anybody ever figure out why all the jurors were white ladies except one? Not thinking race conspiracy here but def intrigued by the jury.

They were all white. One was a white hispanic.

 

[Rack Em]

He was still responsible for his death, and still wasn't held responsible. No matter the reason, its still a fact.

The fact is that the law deemed him not culpable.

"Responsible" does not equal "convicted".

 

[Irish Houstonian]

Confronting people[1] with bad intent[2] and claiming SYG[3] in the same sentence is not a citizen that should be acquitted of murder[4].

From my understanding there was an eyewitness. She was recorded as saying that the guy on top was wearing a white shirt[5]. Neither had a white shirt but GZ had a light gray shirt as TM had a dark grey hoodie. The recording is the police recording, official I think. So in a case of maybes, you would think the most credible and timely maybes would be considered more valuable. Given the FACT that the murderer approached[6] the victim as he was told not to[7], there seems enough speculation in my mind of something. HAHA

Anybody ever figure out why all the jurors were white ladies except one?[8] Not thinking race conspiracy here but def intrigued by the jury.

Not trying to pick on you, but I think this could use some clarification.

[1] There is no evidence GZ confronted TM

[2] The jury was unpersuaded that GZ formed bad intent when following TM

[3] GZ did not claim SYG

[4] Actually, a valid self-defense claim does just that

[5] This witness did not see the event until after the shooting

[6] There is no evidence GZ approached TM

[7] The 911 Operator also asked GZ to keep giving details about where TM was headed. He wasn't commanded "not to follow" TM.

[8] There were only 6 jurors, and one was half-Hispanic half-Black. There were some black potential jurors, but all we know now is that one was struck by the prosecution for watching Fox News too much.

 

[kmoose]

Anybody ever figure out why all the jurors were white ladies except one? Not thinking race conspiracy here but def intrigued by the jury.

What should it have been?

 

[ACamp1900]

Really SIAP (looked through last couple pages)

A Message to Trayvon Martin Sympathizers | Romany Malco

Fantastic article.

So much truth in that... it's really sad

 

[irishpat183]

I understand I am arguing against a judgement already made but I don't understand and would love a good explanation on how it is legal for him to follow and confront a kid that is doing nothing wrong and ultimately kill him after doing so.

I was unaware of the description of the person GZ was looking for? Saying there has been other break-ins doesn't count as probable cause to approach strangers. Can you elaborate on that because that would certainly give him every right to approach and I would feel a lot better about this whole case. Thanks,

Good lord...."lost" just isnt' the word.....

 

[irishpat183]

This all day.

I still don't know what to think about all this and it still baffles me how so many people are hard lined over what they feel happened...

I know this though, he was arrested, and tried before his peers and found not guilty... sorry, deal with it.

I also have to ask... what more do people actually want here, a lynch mob? A civil trial may very well be coming, take a breath and be patient...

On a side note, I found this quite interesting…

What No One Will Tell You About The George Zimmerman Case - Forbes

Exactly. Don't worry, GZ will get to sue MSNBC and the TM family attorney(and that moronic fame whore of a state attorney general) for withholding evidence.

TM's family could go after GZ for a wrongful death civil suit as well.


And to compound on the "deal with it" comment...they're lucky it even went to trial in the first place!!! He should've never been arrested. They investigated what happened and concluded that he was LEGALLY not in the wrong. The ONLY reason he was arrested was lynch mob pressure in the first place.

The only reason anyone cared about this case as opposed to the thousands of others, is that we all thought it was a white dude at first. That's it. It was all downhill from there...now it's about "well he followed him" and other dumb reasons as to why GZ should be guilty.

TM is dead and gone. GZ's life is ruined. As ACamp said...what more do you want?