George Zimmerman Trial

[phgreek]

That is what I think we're seeing in the video. My eyes aren't as good as they used to be, and we can't hear what is going on, but the gun was clearly out before he took a swing at her. If she's not been arrested, Texas' law is just as fvcked as Florida's.

Incidently, all you people who debated the nonsensical nature of my idea that Zimmerman may have had a gun out already and that is what started the altercation with Martin, please take note of the video. It appears that there are people who would take a swing at someone with a gun pulled on them.

...yea, this helps the gun out theory a little. Two different weapons though, and the woman in the video wasn't comfortable with the rifle...looked like she was toting a 4x4...which I think invited the "grab". As well, if you assumed Martin was looking down the barrel of a gun pointed at his head, or even at his torso...I still think no way...however, I will cede if it was merely shown to Martin...well, this video clearly shows an example where brandishing or even firing a warning shot (if she did) doesn't impress angry people.

 

[phgreek]

You could Hail Bogs or depending political affiliation, Hale Boggs, the House Majority Leader who disappeared in '72 to the relief of Nixon and created a job opportunity for Tip O'Neill.

I'll oddly go against affiliation, and maybe decorum, and Hale Boggs because I liked Tip O'Neil.

 

[ACamp1900]

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W.O.W.

 

[Booslum31]

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This won't get any run with the mainstream media. Wrong message...doesn't stoke the racial embers. I like the part where he said Al...sit Down, Jessie...sit down. Don't agree with all of it and I'm sure that there were those in the audience that didn't appreciate parts of the message. Wish they would have panned the crowd during some of the more intriguing moments.

 

[GoIrish41]

George Zimmerman Stoned Trayvon Martin: Deuteronomy 21 : 18 - 21 - YouTube

Preaching the truth! One of the best videos I have seen about this case because if this was a white man saying this, it would be RACIST!

Could someone embed this? reps will follow

Edit: I will be clear that I do not agree 100% to everything he says and I am not a very religious person. With that said he brings up many valid points that should be taken into consideration, especially when/if it comes to a civil trial. It's some pretty powerful stuff.

Does he know Martin's mother and father, or Travon for that matter. For a Christian man, he sure seems unaware of the whole passing judgment aspect of the faith. He seemed to make some pretty deep, hurtful accusations about this family, and offered up details about them that I have not heard (like Martin was stealing money out of his mom's purse). He's trying to make Zimmerman into some sort of spiritual hero for exterminating a kid. Zimmerman didn't know a thing about Martin when he killed him, and I suspect that this preacher doesn't know anything about him either. If I attended that church, I would find a new place to worship following that shameful sermon.

 

[notredomer23]

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Good video. Worth the 10 minutes IMO

 

[notredomer23]

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Good video. Worth the 10 minutes IMO

 

[irishpat183]

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Awesome. He gets it.

But he'll be called an Uncle Tom before all this is over. Sadly.

 

[irishpat183]

Does he know Martin's mother and father, or Travon for that matter. For a Christian man, he sure seems unaware of the whole passing judgment aspect of the faith. He seemed to make some pretty deep, hurtful accusations about this family, and offered up details about them that I have not heard (like Martin was stealing money out of his mom's purse). He's trying to make Zimmerman into some sort of spiritual hero for exterminating a kid. Zimmerman didn't know a thing about Martin when he killed him, and I suspect that this preacher doesn't know anything about him either. If I attended that church, I would find a new place to worship following that shameful sermon.

Do you REALLY believe that? Or are you just trying to tow the line?

TM was a punk. Doesn't mean he had to die for it...but the more that has come out about this teenager, the worse he looks. There is a reason that the media and TM's lawyers went on the offensive early. Because they knew that TM was a thug and if that got out FIRST, they wouldn't have had the public support.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

Yeah, the stupidity of a broken nose sucker punch and a concrete sidewalk headbashing.


A long gun already loaded that she had conveniently at hand in her open trunk while Zimmerman was on his back with the gun underneath and his athletic, 160 pound assailant on top of him. How athletic was that 58 year old?

Warning shot? Which of the 5 was that?

Then after killing him she calmly took pictures then left as she was in constant fear for her life. So scared the police had to track her down from her license plate.

In contrast Zimmerman spoke with the police, police he had called prior to Martin attacking him, and cooperated fully with the police. He didn't invoke 5th amendent. He didn't flee the scene. He didn't take pictures of the scene. He didn't have a community activist hold a press conference for him.

You and Pat are supposing. You have no idea what happened. GZ could have had is gun out regardless of if it was out, when I was young I would have caught GZ in the nose. My boys would have, too. Might have done more damage. GZ was definitely not injured as bad as his story would indicate, so I have to assume you are being NRA spokespeople.

Here is my prediction. GZ was a stupid shiit. Not just a little. A classic. This woman was too; I was being facetious about this woman being in the right. What you have here is the start of a bunch of idiots that have no qualms about taking another life. This woman took pictures of the body and drove away. If someone on the scene hadn't got her license number, they would still be looking for her! GZ, this woman, probably have strongly sociopathic tendencies. Individuals that are so strongly sociopathic in their tendencies that we would call them full blown "sociopaths," are normally about 1% killers, and about 99% liars, cheats, thieves, corporate executives, politicians, and con artists. Now that proportion will change. Since one of the components of the sociopathic personality, on the narcissistic side is what we would call cowardice, (fear of hurting oneself), most sociopaths are actually afraid of clearly breaking major rules. But with the NRA and stand your ground, they can do it legally, with at most a few lies, and then snap pictures of their handiwork for facebook!

Congratulations, some of you got what you wanted!

 

[kmoose]

You and Pat are supposing. You have no idea what happened. GZ could have had is gun out regardless of if it was out, when I was young I would have caught GZ in the nose. My boys would have, too. Might have done more damage. GZ was definitely not injured as bad as his story would indicate, so I have to assume you are being NRA spokespeople.

Here is my prediction. GZ was a stupid shiit. Not just a little. A classic. This woman was too; I was being facetious about this woman being in the right. What you have here is the start of a bunch of idiots that have no qualms about taking another life. This woman took pictures of the body and drove away. If someone on the scene hadn't got her license number, they would still be looking for her! GZ, this woman, probably have strongly sociopathic tendencies. Individuals that are so strongly sociopathic in their tendencies that we would call them full blown "sociopaths," are normally about 1% killers, and about 99% liars, cheats, thieves, corporate executives, politicians, and con artists. Now that proportion will change. Since one of the components of the sociopathic personality, on the narcissistic side is what we would call cowardice, (fear of hurting oneself), most sociopaths are actually afraid of clearly breaking major rules. But with the NRA and stand your ground, they can do it legally, with at most a few lies, and then snap pictures of their handiwork for facebook!

Congratulations, some of you got what you wanted!

So, to sum up?

1. You either believe that Trayvon Martin was murdered in cold blood, or you are a spokesman for the NRA.

2. Bogtrotter is highly trained in the psychology of murderers. Or maybe he has just watched too many episodes of Criminal Minds.

 

[GoIrish41]

Do you REALLY believe that? Or are you just trying to tow the line?

TM was a punk. Doesn't mean he had to die for it...but the more that has come out about this teenager, the worse he looks. There is a reason that the media and TM's lawyers went on the offensive early. Because they knew that TM was a thug and if that got out FIRST, they wouldn't have had the public support.

Do I really believe what? That he is speaking out of turn? Yes. That he didn't know the family or any details about what occurred in the household? Yes. That he is assuming a whole lot? Yes. That he is suggesting that Zimmerman somehow did society a great service by shooting (stoning?) Martin? Yes.

In fact, I think that preacher may be YOU!!!!!!! hahahaha

 

[IrishLax]

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Good video. Worth the 10 minutes IMO

Pretty darn succinct video on all of the "facts" about Trayvon Martin that have been casually ignored by people who wanted to make him a saint.

I contend that I don't think the actual altercation went down exactly as Zimmerman said because some parts seem a little implausible. At the same time, there is little doubt in my mind that Trayvon Martin was a malcontent (with his history of assault and everything else) and was responsible for approaching Zimmerman when he easily could've just continued home, and that he threw the first punch and was kicking Zimmerman's butt.

The irony to me has always been that the prosecution tried to make Zimmerman's desire to be a cop a negative... that is, wanting to be a law man was to be construed as a character flaw and possible "motive" for murder. How honestly twisted is that? Yet nothing was admissible about Trayvon's character... which included multiple crimes that were instead written up as school disciplinary issues, drug use, and a history of violence that Zimmerman didn't have. Mind you, Zimmerman had over a decade as an adult to step a toe out of line and have a record. Trayvon Martin wasn't even an adult yet and was trying hard to get his rap sheet started.

But it really doesn't matter... the case is over, people have their minds made up, and there will be a lot of people that regardless of what is out there just think Zimmerman should've taken his "whooping".

 

[Irish Houstonian]

...The irony to me has always been that the prosecution tried to make Zimmerman's desire to be a cop a negative... that is, wanting to be a law man was to be construed as a character flaw and possible "motive" for murder. How honestly twisted is that?...

That puzzled me too. They kept calling him a "wannabe cop", but that didn't fit the narrative required to get a conviction. If anything, it hurt them (e.g., the juror believing that "George's heart was in the right place").

Under the law they needed to call him a "cold-blooded killer" -- a little tough considering the evidence, but maybe they should have thought of that before they brought the case.

 

[GoIrish41]

Not sure how to embed, could someone please embed this re-enactment of Trayvon Martin at the convenience store? Thanks.

“I’m feeling kind of low Apu. Got any of that beer...

 

[NDinL.A.]

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Good video. Worth the 10 minutes IMO

Phenomenal video. Shed even more light on TM's character and Zimmerman's character...all based off of facts. And excellent use of Dr. King's incredible speech.

(And yet I'm still the 'insensitive jerk' who thinks that Trayvon's parents did a horrible job raising him (lol at everyone saying how proud they are of them) and all money awarded them should go to charities like the Negro College Fund.

Still believe that to be true...even more so now.)

 

[irishpat183]

Do I really believe what? That he is speaking out of turn? Yes. That he didn't know the family or any details about what occurred in the household? Yes. That he is assuming a whole lot? Yes. That he is suggesting that Zimmerman somehow did society a great service by shooting (stoning?) Martin? Yes.

In fact, I think that preacher may be YOU!!!!!!! hahahaha

The Reverend Preaches About Girls - Coming to America (4/10) Movie CLIP (1988) HD - YouTube

 

[ACamp1900]

The Reverend Preaches About Girls - Coming to America (4/10) Movie CLIP (1988) HD - YouTube

Any coming to America clip gets a rep from me... Even when I don't understand why it was used.... Lol

Sexual Chocolate!!!

 

[irishpat183]

Any coming to America clip gets a rep from me... Even when I don't understand why it was used.... Lol

Sexual Chocolate!!!

Anytime i see a excited black preacher...I think of this.

is that racist? LOL

 

[phgreek]

Does he know Martin's mother and father, or Travon for that matter. For a Christian man, he sure seems unaware of the whole passing judgment aspect of the faith. He seemed to make some pretty deep, hurtful accusations about this family, and offered up details about them that I have not heard (like Martin was stealing money out of his mom's purse). He's trying to make Zimmerman into some sort of spiritual hero for exterminating a kid. Zimmerman didn't know a thing about Martin when he killed him, and I suspect that this preacher doesn't know anything about him either. If I attended that church, I would find a new place to worship following that shameful sermon.

I've watched the video. I've chewed on it for a day or so. It made me uncomfortable for many of the reasons you cite.

But do I believe he really feels that way? No. See, the job of a preacher, IMHO is to provoke thought, introspection, and growth. I'm going to assume he thinks his audience heard a lot of the bizarre and goofy misrepresentations of what "happened" from both sides. I'm going to assume this preacher thinks the majority of the people in his audience believe the portrayal of Martin by the media (angelic 13 y/o kid), as well as that of Zimmerman (blood thirsty racist). Exactly how do you think he invokes introspection on the subject if he thinks he is up against some serious suspension of logic and dismissal of facts. He uses human nature. Would you agree head football coaches and preachers share the manipulation gene? They have to in order to be successful at their job...so...

Picture a football field...you on a goal line, then me on the other. Our job is to decide where we meet. You being a reasoned person says lets meet at the 50...me being a greedy/lazy a$$ thinks strategically and says, nope...my 10. And you think that's outlandish...the 50, I'm not walking 40 extra yards. At some point you will settle for something other than the 50, and to my advantage. OK, so what he is doing is something SO outlandish hoping those in the audience settle somewhere around...Trayvon Martin was a troubled kid, and likely a major factor leading to that is a broken home. If he gets 20% of the audience to go that far with him...he has done what I think he set out to do...open the door for Martin's death to be of benefit someone.

Now I could be wrong, and this guy is a hypocritical a$$...I do think he is trying to get people to look at cause-effect on a level that makes folks think about things like broken homes, etc., vs. a level that leads people to become angry and militant, but to no benefit. Just MHO.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

So, to sum up?

1. You either believe that Trayvon Martin was murdered in cold blood, or you are a spokesman for the NRA.

2. Bogtrotter is highly trained in the psychology of murderers. Or maybe he has just watched too many episodes of Criminal Minds.

If you believe GZ's story, and his wounds were from a life and death struggle, then you are a spokesman from the NRA.

I believe I made it clear that I don't know what happened; except, that what GZ said in his story didn't!

It is my belief that GZ wanted to see what it was like to shoot somebody.

I think a lot of people are in that ball park. Until they do. Then some say it ain't so bad. Others have a hard time living with themselves. So what I may know more about than you is the psychology of shooting someone. After reading your posts, it is obviously something.

Kidding aside, see if I am right. See if the number of shootings (stupid like these two both were) are on the rise, or not. If shooting becomes a thing of the past like some hypothesize, I am wrong and we can all take turns making fun of me. If the number of shootings rise, than the lawmakers, the NRA, and some of you are full of it. The third possibility is that things become so garbled that two people shooting at each other claim self defense, and our courts become overburdened with capital murder cases!!

One more thing. I am one of those on the site that openly admits we know nothing about GZ, TM, or the HTown Shooter. Some of us are not arrogant enough to believe we have the facts, (GoIrish and Ph's uncomfortability with that video), and so on. Only an idiot would claim to know what a person had in their heart at a given instant. But you can speak to your own experience. My experience is that nobody runs into harms way with a gun, without intending to use it, and anyone who walks over, takes pictures of a shooting they just did, and drives away has ice-water in their veins. 'The monsters is descending upon us!' This is looking like a cross between a John Carpenter horror flick and an Arnold baby sci-fi drama.

 

[Irish Houstonian]

...It is my belief that GZ wanted to see what it was like to shoot somebody...

Because when you're going out to randomly shoot people, the first thing you do is call 911.

 

[Woneone]

If you believe GZ's story, and his wounds were from a life and death struggle, then you are a spokesman from the NRA.

I believe I made it clear that I don't know what happened; except, that what GZ said in his story didn't!

It is my belief that GZ wanted to see what it was like to shoot somebody.

I think a lot of people are in that ball park. Until they do. Then some say it ain't so bad. Others have a hard time living with themselves. So what I may know more about than you is the psychology of shooting someone. After reading your posts, it is obviously something.

Kidding aside, see if I am right. See if the number of shootings (stupid like these two both were) are on the rise, or not. If shooting becomes a thing of the past like some hypothesize, I am wrong and we can all take turns making fun of me. If the number of shootings rise, than the lawmakers, the NRA, and some of you are full of it. The third possibility is that things become so garbled that two people shooting at each other claim self defense, and our courts become overburdened with capital murder cases!!

One more thing. I am one of those on the site that openly admits we know nothing about GZ, TM, or the HTown Shooter. Some of us are not arrogant enough to believe we have the facts, (GoIrish and Ph's uncomfortability with that video), and so on. Only an idiot would claim to know what a person had in their heart at a given instant. But you can speak to your own experience. My experience is that nobody runs into harms way with a gun, without intending to use it, and anyone who walks over, takes pictures of a shooting they just did, and drives away has ice-water in their veins. 'The monsters is descending upon us!' This is looking like a cross between a John Carpenter horror flick and an Arnold baby sci-fi drama.

I read an article yesterday (sorry, I don't have the link here at work), that does mention the increase in "Justifiable" killings. I believe the number had at least doubled from 2000 to 2010, with something like 330 in 2010.

In Florida, their rate had nearly tripled, from like 12 to 34 per year. The highest of the spike coming after 2005 (and their Stand Your Ground law).

Edit: Oh, and I remember that 20% of "Justified" killings did not include a firearm.

 

[Wild Bill]

One more thing. I am one of those on the site that openly admits we know nothing about GZ, TM, or the HTown Shooter. Some of us are not arrogant enough to believe we have the facts

If you believe GZ's story, and his wounds were from a life and death struggle, then you are a spokesman from the NRA.

Great.

 

[GoIrish41]

I've watched the video. I've chewed on it for a day or so. It made me uncomfortable for many of the reasons you cite.

But do I believe he really feels that way? No. See, the job of a preacher, IMHO is to provoke thought, introspection, and growth. I'm going to assume he thinks his audience heard a lot of the bizarre and goofy misrepresentations of what "happened" from both sides. I'm going to assume this preacher thinks the majority of the people in his audience believe the portrayal of Martin by the media (angelic 13 y/o kid), as well as that of Zimmerman (blood thirsty racist). Exactly how do you think he invokes introspection on the subject if he thinks he is up against some serious suspension of logic and dismissal of facts. He uses human nature. Would you agree head football coaches and preachers share the manipulation gene? They have to in order to be successful at their job...so...

Picture a football field...you on a goal line, then me on the other. Our job is to decide where we meet. You being a reasoned person says lets meet at the 50...me being a greedy/lazy a$$ thinks strategically and says, nope...my 10. And you think that's outlandish...the 50, I'm not walking 40 extra yards. At some point you will settle for something other than the 50, and to my advantage. OK, so what he is doing is something SO outlandish hoping those in the audience settle somewhere around...Trayvon Martin was a troubled kid, and likely a major factor leading to that is a broken home. If he gets 20% of the audience to go that far with him...he has done what I think he set out to do...open the door for Martin's death to be of benefit someone.

Now I could be wrong, and this guy is a hypocritical a$$...I do think he is trying to get people to look at cause-effect on a level that makes folks think about things like broken homes, etc., vs. a level that leads people to become angry and militant, but to no benefit. Just MHO.

I don't disagree with you about his probable intentions. He seemed to be trying to light a fire under people on topics that are pefipheral to the shooting and he was trying to make his message fit the big news story of the day. I get that. I just think he went wwwaaaayyyy too far and made assumptions and ignorant comments not based in any fact that any of us could possibly know at the expense of greiving parents of a dead kid. He also smeared a dead kid who he knew nothing about (other than what he saw through news coverage). I found it a shameful, outrageous display of ignorance. If he were on IE, I think we would call him a troll.

 

[Irish Houstonian]

I read an article yesterday (sorry, I don't have the link here at work), that does mention the increase in "Justifiable" killings. I believe the number had at least doubled from 2000 to 2010, with something like 330 in 2010.

In Florida, their rate had nearly tripled, from like 12 to 34 per year. The highest of the spike coming after 2005 (and their Stand Your Ground law).

Edit: Oh, and I remember that 20% of "Justified" killings did not include a firearm.

At the end of the day, I consider truly 'justifiable' killings to be good things. It means the right person survived.

 

[SaltyND24]

At the end of the day, I consider truly 'justifiable' killings to be good things. It means the right person survived.

Philosophy of Dexter Morgan

 

[irishpat183]

If you believe GZ's story, and his wounds were from a life and death struggle, then you are a spokesman from the NRA.

If you believe TM was an innocent person who was murdered becuase he was black, you're a spokesperson for the Black Panther party

I believe I made it clear that I don't know what happened; except, that what GZ said in his story didn't!

Ummm....you don't know that. Therefore, Not guilty.

It is my belief that GZ wanted to see what it was like to shoot somebody.

So he waited until TM got on top of him and beat him up to do so? Not to mention, it took him all these calls to 911 before he decided on shooting TM?

Your belief is a little bit crazy.

I think a lot of people are in that ball park. Until they do. Then some say it ain't so bad. Others have a hard time living with themselves. So what I may know more about than you is the psychology of shooting someone. After reading your posts, it is obviously something.

Kidding aside, see if I am right. See if the number of shootings (stupid like these two both were) are on the rise, or not. If shooting becomes a thing of the past like some hypothesize, I am wrong and we can all take turns making fun of me. If the number of shootings rise, than the lawmakers, the NRA, and some of you are full of it. The third possibility is that things become so garbled that two people shooting at each other claim self defense, and our courts become overburdened with capital murder cases!!

One more thing. I am one of those on the site that openly admits we know nothing about GZ, TM, or the HTown Shooter. Some of us are not arrogant enough to believe we have the facts, (GoIrish and Ph's uncomfortability with that video), and so on. Only an idiot would claim to know what a person had in their heart at a given instant. But you can speak to your own experience. My experience is that nobody runs into harms way with a gun, without intending to use it, and anyone who walks over, takes pictures of a shooting they just did, and drives away has ice-water in their veins. 'The monsters is descending upon us!' This is looking like a cross between a John Carpenter horror flick and an Arnold baby sci-fi drama.

Ahhh....Now where can I find an example of that.......

 

[irishpat183]

At the end of the day, I consider truly 'justifiable' killings to be good things. It means the right person survived.

True. Very blunt...but true.

But people have trouble being blunt about these topics.

 

[GoIrish41]

At the end of the day, I consider truly 'justifiable' killings to be good things. It means the right person survived.

Does the NSA monitor message boards?