Education

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Forty million Americans owe student loan debt which collectively amounts to $1.6 Trillion from both federal and private loans - and expected to rise to over $2.2 Trillion by 2022. One in five of those forty million are in default. For the Class of 2016, the average student debt was over $37,000.

In the 1990s, urged by the U.S. Department of Education, states began adopting laws requiring regulatory boards to suspend professional licenses, and even driver’s licenses. Around 2010, roughly half of states had some form of license suspension for default (LSD) law in place - doctors, social workers, teachers, pharmacists, nurses, lawyers and other professionals have found themselves susceptible to loss of their licenses due to these punitive laws.

From 2015-17, four states have ended LSD laws. During 2017-18 sessions, seven states removed LSD laws. Texas in this legislature just ending removed itself from that list and passed a bill co-sponsored by thirty legislators, which Gov Abbott on signing said:
“I’m about to sign a law that ensures that an occupational license cannot be denied or revoked by the state because of default on student loans. It protects your right to earn a living.”
Twelve states remain with LSD laws in place.

Two very different bills have been introduced in the Senate. Senators Rubio and Warren have reintroduced their bill - Protecting Job Opportunities for Borrowers Act again this session that would prevent loss of borrowers jobs, which would go into effect two years after passage. It has never gone to Committee.

The head of that Committee (Heath, Education, Labor and Pension) Sen Alexander has introduced a bill that would mandate deducts from paychecks by employers on ten year repayment plans. Average student debt by recent graduates is almost $30,000 with some private loans varying up to 14% interest rates. Financial advisers recommend a maximum of 8% of income go to paying off student loans. Federal loan interest rates are 4.5%. As some state's pension plans have fallen to dangerously low levels, professionals like teachers who may also may not have had raises for years have that increased pressure of seeing pension plan changes.

Applications for federal loan forgiveness is through the Education Dept, which under the Trump administration includes those who previously worked for private school systems. Those forgiveness rates are low and slow in being processed. Recently, only 9,000 of 42,000 eligible veteran with outstanding student loan debt have had their loans forgiven. That has occasioned fifty-one states and territories AGs to send a letter to Betsy DeVos, Education Secretary, to act on these applications. Loan forgiveness rates for others are much lower. Unlike other consumer debt such as credit card and mortgage debt, however, student loans traditionally cannot be discharged in bankruptcy. In 1998, Congress removed dischargeablility in bankruptcy except if a debtor could show that paying back the student loans would create an undue hardship. In 2005, Congress extended this protection to private student loans.

According to the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau (CPFB), the number of student loan borrowers 60 and older rose at least 20% nationwide between 2012 and 2017. In more than 75% of states, outstanding student loan debt increased by 50% or more. Student loan debt is a major reason many at retirement age have to continue working, while many graduating students may have to move back home with those parents, and may prevent those graduates have to stay with certain jobs, delay having children or buying a home. For those of us with three or four children, it takes careful, long-range planning to ensure that each have a good education that does not put them in debt. Education costs will rise much more by the time they are ready for college. By 2022, Notre Dame tuition and fees - currently at over $55,000 - only for a four year degree will total $225, 530 if it continues to grow at the 3.7% per year as it has for the last five years. Total cost of attendance now at ND is over $74,000 per year. A child currently a high school freshman could pay over $320,000 for a four year degree at ND.
 
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Irishize

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There wouldn’t be talk of loan forgiveness if the state universities weren’t allowed to jack up tuition every year regardless of the economy. Tuition costs for state institutions is beyond ridiculous but no all we hear is that the debts should be forgiven instead of getting to the root of the problem....the greedy universities.
 

NDBoiler

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There wouldn’t be talk of loan forgiveness if the state universities weren’t allowed to jack up tuition every year regardless of the economy. Tuition costs for state institutions is beyond ridiculous but no all we hear is that the debts should be forgiven instead of getting to the root of the problem....the greedy universities.

The root of the problem is federal involvement in student loans. Lenders have little risk knowing the repayment is guaranteed, so they’re willing to loan much more than they would if they were truly underwriting or honestly assessing the borrowers ability to pay. If you wanted to take out a loan to buy a new car and made it clear you have virtually zero income, no credit history, and wouldn’t start paying it back for 4+ years, the banks would laugh. Universities are just the next person in line after the lenders playing the economic game of supply and demand. If you eliminate federal student loan insurance, you would force lenders to be more critical in lending, which would thereby reduce the amounts they would ultimately lend, as they would now have much greater risk. This would in turn reduce demand for high priced tuition, and force the cost of tuition to go down to adjust to this demand reduction.

Also, the individual bears responsibility to live within their means. College can be affordable, but not all college is affordable right now. If you have to go into $200k of debt to get a 4 year degree, that probably means you can’t afford it. Most in state public universities are affordable if you plan ahead and cash flow by starting to save now (i.e. contribute to a 529 for your kids). Living on a budget can also do tremendous things in your life. It’s a matter of sacrificing in the short term and delaying pleasure now for a long term benefit. It is definitely a very counter-culture concept in today’s society, but it will put you miles ahead of your peers in leading a more financially secure life.
 
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NorthDakota

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Forty million Americans owe student loan debt which collectively amounts to $1.6 Trillion from both federal and private loans - and expected to rise to over $2.2 Trillion by 2022. One in five of those forty million are in default. For the Class of 2016, the average student debt was over $37,000.

In the 1990s, urged by the U.S. Department of Education, states began adopting laws requiring regulatory boards to suspend professional licenses, and even driver’s licenses. Around 2010, roughly half of states had some form of license suspension for default (LSD) law in place - doctors, social workers, teachers, pharmacists, nurses, lawyers and other professionals have found themselves susceptible to loss of their licenses due to these punitive laws.

From 2015-17, four states have ended LSD laws. During 2017-18 sessions, seven states removed LSD laws. Texas in this legislature just ending removed itself from that list and passed a bill co-sponsored by thirty legislators, which Gov Abbott on signing said:

Twelve states remain with LSD laws in place.

Two very different bills have been introduced in the Senate. Senators Rubio and Warren have reintroduced their bill - Protecting Job Opportunities for Borrowers Act again this session that would prevent loss of borrowers jobs, which would go into effect two years after passage. It has never gone to Committee.

The head of that Committee (Heath, Education, Labor and Pension) Sen Alexander has introduced a bill that would mandate deducts from paychecks by employers on ten year repayment plans. Average student debt by recent graduates is almost $30,000 with some private loans varying up to 14% interest rates. Financial advisers recommend a maximum of 8% of income go to paying off student loans. Federal loan interest rates are 4.5%. As some state's pension plans have fallen to dangerously low levels, professionals like teachers who may also may not have had raises for years have that increased pressure of seeing pension plan changes.

Applications for federal loan forgiveness is through the Education Dept, which under the Trump administration includes those who previously worked for private school systems. Those forgiveness rates are low and slow in being processed. Recently, only 9,000 of 42,000 eligible veteran with outstanding student loan debt have had their loans forgiven. That has occasioned fifty-one states and territories AGs to send a letter to Betsy DeVos, Education Secretary, to act on these applications. Loan forgiveness rates for others are much lower. Unlike other consumer debt such as credit card and mortgage debt, however, student loans traditionally cannot be discharged in bankruptcy. In 1998, Congress removed dischargeablility in bankruptcy except if a debtor could show that paying back the student loans would create an undue hardship. In 2005, Congress extended this protection to private student loans.

According to the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau (CPFB), the number of student loan borrowers 60 and older rose at least 20% nationwide between 2012 and 2017. In more than 75% of states, outstanding student loan debt increased by 50% or more. Student loan debt is a major reason many at retirement age have to continue working, while many graduating students may have to move back home with those parents, and may prevent those graduates have to stay with certain jobs, delay having children or buying a home. For those of us with three or four children, it takes careful, long-range planning to ensure that each have a good education that does not put them in debt. Education costs will rise much more by the time they are ready for college. By 2022, Notre Dame tuition and fees - currently at over $55,000 - only for a four year degree will total $225, 530 if it continues to grow at the 3.7% per year as it has for the last five years. Total cost of attendance now at ND is over $74,000 per year. A child currently a high school freshman could pay over $320,000 for a four year degree at ND.

The consumer protection bureau is a fucking joke. Like every government program.
 

RDU Irish

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Put the loans on the Universities - kid goes bankrupt the University can be on the hook for the $$. That would clean this up in a hiccup. Sciences would have tons of aid, more abundance and higher costs, useless majors would be cheaper and less abundant.

I hate the premise of "parents should save now for their kid's college" - any kid should be able to work their way through college without their parents' help and come out with a reasonable amount of debt. You are a f-ing adult when you go to college - this suckling on the parents to age 26 BS is softening our society horribly. Not to mention handicapping good kids already handicapped with "bad" parents.

I also hate the premise that $XX is an egregious amount of debt. So many look at $50,000 as some oppressive amount for example. That is about $400/month for 20 years at 8% - or $600/month to pay it off in ten. If your college education is not worth $400-$600/month then you are doing it wrong. Very reasonable amount for someone to come out of a state school with.

Most of the people whining about $200,000 debts are doctors and lawyers - if you are walking out of some private school with $200,000 in debt to go teach first grade - that is kind of on you.
 

Veritate Duce Progredi

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Put the loans on the Universities - kid goes bankrupt the University can be on the hook for the $$. That would clean this up in a hiccup. Sciences would have tons of aid, more abundance and higher costs, useless majors would be cheaper and less abundant.

I hate the premise of "parents should save now for their kid's college" - any kid should be able to work their way through college without their parents' help and come out with a reasonable amount of debt. You are a f-ing adult when you go to college - this suckling on the parents to age 26 BS is softening our society horribly. Not to mention handicapping good kids already handicapped with "bad" parents.

I also hate the premise that $XX is an egregious amount of debt. So many look at $50,000 as some oppressive amount for example. That is about $400/month for 20 years at 8% - or $600/month to pay it off in ten. If your college education is not worth $400-$600/month then you are doing it wrong. Very reasonable amount for someone to come out of a state school with.

Most of the people whining about $200,000 debts are doctors and lawyers - if you are walking out of some private school with $200,000 in debt to go teach first grade - that is kind of on you.

I don't think you've considered this fully. And TBC, I have no student debt but many of my friends are up to their necks in it.
 

Legacy

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I, too, am not too sympathetic for those who take out significant loans and want to default on them or have them forgiven. Some points:
- many people qualify to have their loans forgiven - those who entered "public service" jobs like teachers or the vets who are experiencing the Dept of Education dragging their feet. Get those cleared out.
- the federal gov getting out of the loan business, a large percentage of borrowers are eliminated since they are not considered good risk, and with less people seeking student loans rates would go down? When has that worked? Wouldn't private lenders cap the volume they would assume? Currently 93% of loans are federal.
- some people just would not qualify and should not. If they did not plan ahead, save for college, teach their children to save, maybe they need to work after high school or look at alternatives like community college
- students need good counseling at high school or elsewhere that they need to make good grades for scholarships on merit and to prepare them for the demands
- work ini the summer is important for saving and early 529 plans with telling the student a certain percentage of their paycheck goes into that
- many students grow up in households where the work they do goes toward family expenses
- around 50% of adults have less than $1000 in savings
- job security for some parents is more of an issue than when unions were strong and had benefits of health care and pensions
- it's the middle class that is hit the worst including people with businesses or those who have had minimal wage increases and see health insurance costs go up or had surprise medical bills or need to take care of or are financially responsible for an aging parent
- college and success in life for children and ownership is part of the American dream which is harder for current generations to attain than their parents
- one can find a lot of little scholarship monies in the communities or nationwide that will allot small amounts. That takes time but cobble together many of those with savings can help
- work during college
- parents should let their children know their financial limitations
- as an example both parents are teachers, the child grows up with a lot of admiration for teaching and what they have learned from them and their parents and wants to enter that profession. Where would we be without them?
- how many middle class families can afford not to have second incomes, have four to six children, and be able to retire after working fifty years?
- minors can take a year off to work before college or halfway through
- vets get federal assistance for education. Wrong? or just workable if the numbers are low or confined? More and more people do see an advantage to getting school paid for by entering the service
- keep the debt low for graduation if you have to take out loans - limit it to half of that $30,000 recent grads have averaged
- public grade and high schools for children may help parents save more but some cannot move to areas where the schools are better and have classmates who have those higher ambitions, goal-setting habits and studying habits
 
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Circa

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There wouldn’t be talk of loan forgiveness if the state universities weren’t allowed to jack up tuition every year regardless of the economy. Tuition costs for state institutions is beyond ridiculous but no all we hear is that the debts should be forgiven instead of getting to the root of the problem....the greedy universities.

It Isn't the greed of the Universities as much as It's the will to take on student loans to pay for something you don't really understand. The student loan program is one of the problems.
How are student loans something we can't file bankruptcy on?
Really, think about why we are taking loans on Idea's that can't be forgiven.

This isn't a math, philosophy, history, science problem. Some Universities today are 1 part of the capitalists movement that smart individuals will create in order to fund movements and recreate the minds of our young. Then when It doesn't go their way, they'll create Chaos.
 
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Circa

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NorthDakota

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Tell me what you don't agree with. I'm curious.

If I recall, and I could be wrong, he's pretty moderate on abortion.

Love his stuff on Identity Politics, higher ed funding, the mob mentality type of things.
 

Irish#1

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I, too, am not too sympathetic for those who take out significant loans and want to default on them or have them forgiven. Some points:
- many people qualify to have their loans forgiven - those who entered "public service" jobs like teachers or the vets who are experiencing the Dept of Education dragging their feet. Get those cleared out.
- the federal gov getting out of the loan business, a large percentage of borrowers are eliminated since they are not considered good risk, and with less people seeking student loans rates would go down? When has that worked? Wouldn't private lenders cap the volume they would assume? Currently 93% of loans are federal.
- some people just would not qualify and should not. If they did not plan ahead, save for college, teach their children to save, maybe they need to work after high school or look at alternatives like community college
- students need good counseling at high school or elsewhere that they need to make good grades for scholarships on merit and to prepare them for the demands
- work ini the summer is important for saving and early 529 plans with telling the student a certain percentage of their paycheck goes into that
- many students grow up in households where the work they do goes toward family expenses
- around 50% of adults have less than $1000 in savings
- job security for some parents is more of an issue than when unions were strong and had benefits of health care and pensions
- it's the middle class that is hit the worst including people with businesses or those who have had minimal wage increases and see health insurance costs go up or had surprise medical bills or need to take care of or are financially responsible for an aging parent
- college and success in life for children and ownership is part of the American dream which is harder for current generations to attain than their parents
- one can find a lot of little scholarship monies in the communities or nationwide that will allot small amounts. That takes time but cobble together many of those with savings can help
- work during college
- parents should let their children know their financial limitations
- as an example both parents are teachers, the child grows up with a lot of admiration for teaching and what they have learned from them and their parents and wants to enter that profession. Where would we be without them?
- how many middle class families can afford not to have second incomes, have four to six children, and be able to retire after working fifty years?
- minors can take a year off to work before college or halfway through
- vets get federal assistance for education. Wrong? or just workable if the numbers are low or confined? More and more people do see an advantage to getting school paid for by entering the service
- keep the debt low for graduation if you have to take out loans - limit it to half of that $30,000 recent grads have averaged
- public grade and high schools for children may help parents save more but some cannot move to areas where the schools are better and have classmates who have those higher ambitions, goal-setting habits and studying habits

This PSLF program is somewhat misleading as the number that qualify isn't that great. One of my sons is in the public sector, paid as required and was turned down.

As far as these scholarships that get "unused" every year. Many of these scholarships are very specific in who they are awarded to. For instance, the scholarship may have requirements that the student must have graduated from the same HS as the person who set up the scholarship and it may be for a specific degree.

If I had to do it all over again knowing what I currently know, I would probably go into the service so the government could pay for my education.
 
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Some Irish Bloke

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Here’s an example of how not to deal with student loans:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...debt-college-grad-flees-u-s-china/1419169001/

SMH at the parents for encouraging their child to be a quitter and running away from his problems.

Well, you went to school for PR and failed to find a job and just defaulted back to delivering pizzas. There are plenty of other jobs to fall back on than delivery boy that can pay better. Strap on some boots and work manual labor, plenty of jobs in the trades that pay over $50k. Sounds like he just laid down and quit, which is when capitalism will eat you alive. No sympathy for this guy

I have more student loan debt than most. Double this "average amount" of $35k or whatever they throw around, but have already paid off a good chunk. I should be good in 5 more years. Make a decent living, nothing crazy.

There's a million ways to budget with student loans. Income driven repayment, consolidation, and, even deferment (being the worst way and worst case scenario) if you really need to delay until you get your life in order.

Again, no sympathy for him. He just came off as a whiny *itch...sounds like a great PR hire for any company!
 

Wild Bill

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Well, you went to school for PR and failed to find a job and just defaulted back to delivering pizzas. There are plenty of other jobs to fall back on than delivery boy that can pay better. Strap on some boots and work manual labor, plenty of jobs in the trades that pay over $50k. Sounds like he just laid down and quit, which is when capitalism will eat you alive. No sympathy for this guy

I have more student loan debt than most. Double this "average amount" of $35k or whatever they throw around, but have already paid off a good chunk. I should be good in 5 more years. Make a decent living, nothing crazy.

There's a million ways to budget with student loans. Income driven repayment, consolidation, and, even deferment (being the worst way and worst case scenario) if you really need to delay until you get your life in order.

Again, no sympathy for him. He just came off as a whiny *itch...sounds like a great PR hire for any company!

According to the article, he graduated in 2007 and went into the workforce as our economy was taking a shit. Anyone working during that time remembers it was incredibly difficult and the chances of someone entering the workforce and making $50k was slim.

That said, it's absolutely ridiculous to basically renounce your citizenship over $30k. I have to be honest, though. I have wondered why more people wouldn't consider this option. I manage/know more than a handful of people who owe in excess of $250k, and this strikes me as an option worth considering.

People abandon their native nations by the millions to come to America for a better future, right? Why would that not be an option for Americans in other nations?
 

Irish#1

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I posted this in another thread, but worth sharing here.

I haven't been at Sallie Mae in 11 years and haven't stayed completely on top of the laws, so this may have changed some since then. Back when I worked there when a student defaulted on a guaranteed loan, after doing their due diligence (phone calls and letters over a period of time) the guarantor goes to the Feds to get reimbursed for the loan. Here's the kicker and where the real money is made. After receiving their reimbursement, guarantors can continue to collect on the loan. After getting as much as possible, they sell it to one of their collection companies (that they own) to continue to collect on the loan. When the collection company has it, they bought it for pennies on the dollars. On a loan of around 10K, you could offer to pay $2,500 to settle and they'll take it.
 
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NorthDakota

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According to the article, he graduated in 2007 and went into the workforce as our economy was taking a shit. Anyone working during that time remembers it was incredibly difficult and the chances of someone entering the workforce and making $50k was slim.

That said, it's absolutely ridiculous to basically renounce your citizenship over $30k. I have to be honest, though. I have wondered why more people wouldn't consider this option. I manage/know more than a handful of people who owe in excess of $250k, and this strikes me as an option worth considering.

People abandon their native nations by the millions to come to America for a better future, right? Why would that not be an option for Americans in other nations?

Could have went to the Permian or Bakken fields and made good money.
 

Some Irish Bloke

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According to the article, he graduated in 2007 and went into the workforce as our economy was taking a shit. Anyone working during that time remembers it was incredibly difficult and the chances of someone entering the workforce and making $50k was slim.

That said, it's absolutely ridiculous to basically renounce your citizenship over $30k. I have to be honest, though. I have wondered why more people wouldn't consider this option. I manage/know more than a handful of people who owe in excess of $250k, and this strikes me as an option worth considering.

People abandon their native nations by the millions to come to America for a better future, right? Why would that not be an option for Americans in other nations?

Right, I read the article and it said that he fled in 2011. So, the recession ended in 2009, that gave him 1.5-2 years to reevaluate. Hell, just about anyone with a HS diploma can work for a company in the payroll department and make $30k with full benefits. These are just examples. The dude quit, gave up and just went back to what he knew. That behavior shouldn't be coddled and supported.

You're absolutely right that $30k is a pretty measly amount to throw in the towel as well. I have buddies that went to dental school who are in the 300's.
 

Wild Bill

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Could have went to the Permian or Bakken fields and made good money.

Or China to live debt free - whatever works.

I went to Florida for a few months to work when there was absolutely nothing in this area and was sent home after five weeks b/c worked/money dried up there as well. There were no easy solutions during the recession, especially for labor.

Right, I read the article and it said that he fled in 2011. So, the recession ended in 2009, that gave him 1.5-2 years to reevaluate. Hell, just about anyone with a HS diploma can work for a company in the payroll department and make $30k with full benefits. These are just examples. The dude quit, gave up and just went back to what he knew. That behavior shouldn't be coddled and supported.

You're absolutely right that $30k is a pretty measly amount to throw in the towel as well. I have buddies that went to dental school who are in the 300's.

Yes, his story is ridiculous. It seems obvious there were other issues that may have driven him to make his decision.

Oddly enough, a buddy of mine moved to China to teach English around the same time as this guy. He came home for Christmas one year and I asked him what the hell is he doing living over there and when is he moving back.

"Never," he blurts out half drunk, "I prayed for a bigger dick my whole life and my prayers were answered in China."

Nearly pissed myself.
 

Some Irish Bloke

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Or China to live debt free - whatever works.

I went to Florida for a few months to work when there was absolutely nothing in this area and was sent home after five weeks b/c worked/money dried up there as well. There were no easy solutions during the recession, especially for labor.



Yes, his story is ridiculous. It seems obvious there were other issues that may have driven him to make his decision.

Oddly enough, a buddy of mine moved to China to teach English around the same time as this guy. He came home for Christmas one year and I asked him what the hell is he doing living over there and when is he moving back.

"Never," he blurts out half drunk, "I prayed for a bigger dick my whole life and my prayers were answered in China."

Nearly pissed myself.

:rotflmao:

Hahaha that's fantastic
 

Legacy

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A friend worked his way through grad school, came out with $15k in loan debt and paid that off in a few years. Scrimped so he could get out of that debt. His wife had significant loans from grad school since she could not work while at school when they married. They committed to paying hers off. He said one of her loans was sold off to a financial institution so that her interest rate went from 4.5% to 7.5%. Predatory. The bank makes out like a bandit, especially since student loans are rarely forgiven unlike others. Both have good paying jobs and are free from their debt.

So, it's certainly unfair to everyone who have made these investments in their education and been responsible to forgive loans by others who are not. For those who are not responsible like this and made big purchases, they should suffer the consequences.

But banks should not be able to raise interest rates on loans. Lending at 4.5% is high enough, so that should be a fixed rate and anything higher now should be lowered. The backlog of 800,000 who have met the public interest work criteria needs to be cleared quickly. Leave that up to those in the private sector. Clear the vets who meet forgiveness criteria quickly. Debt counseling and payment plans for others who begin not to make regular payments with info on facts of loan deference in fed criteria situations.

ND and other institutions with huge endowments who have not done so should make tuition free for middle class families - $60-110K income annually - or offer interest free loans.

2019 Student Loan Debt Statistics (Nerdwallet)
 
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NorthDakota

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A friend worked his way through grad school, came out with $15k in loan debt and paid that off in a few years. Scrimped so he could get out of that debt. His wife had significant loans from grad school since she could not work while at school when they married. They committed to paying hers off. He said one of her loans was sold off to a financial institution so that her interest rate went from 4.5% to 7.5%. Predatory. The bank makes out like a bandit, especially since student loans are rarely forgiven unlike others. Both have good paying jobs and are free from their debt.

So, it's certainly unfair to everyone who have made these investments in their education and been responsible to forgive loans by others who are not. For those who are not responsible like this and made big purchases, they should suffer the consequences.

But banks should not be able to raise interest rates on loans. Lending at 4.5% is high enough, so that should be a fixed rate and anything higher now should be lowered. The backlog of 800,000 who have met the public interest work criteria needs to be cleared quickly. Leave that up to those in the private sector. Clear the vets who meet forgiveness criteria quickly. Debt counseling and payment plans for others who begin not to make regular payments with info on facts of loan deference in fed criteria situations.

ND and other institutions with huge endowments who have not done so should make tuition free for middle class families - $60-110K income annually - or offer interest free loans.

2019 Student Loan Debt Statistics

Banks shouldn't be able to utilize variable interest rates? My interest rate on my student loans is around 2.75% I believe, so no thanks I'll pass on your "RATES MUST BE FIXED" idea.
 

ab2cmiller

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A friend worked his way through grad school, came out with $15k in loan debt and paid that off in a few years. Scrimped so he could get out of that debt. His wife had significant loans from grad school since she could not work while at school when they married. They committed to paying hers off. He said one of her loans was sold off to a financial institution so that her interest rate went from 4.5% to 7.5%. Predatory. The bank makes out like a bandit, especially since student loans are rarely forgiven unlike others. Both have good paying jobs and are free from their debt.

So, it's certainly unfair to everyone who have made these investments in their education and been responsible to forgive loans by others who are not. For those who are not responsible like this and made big purchases, they should suffer the consequences.

But banks should not be able to raise interest rates on loans. Lending at 4.5% is high enough, so that should be a fixed rate and anything higher now should be lowered. The backlog of 800,000 who have met the public interest work criteria needs to be cleared quickly. Leave that up to those in the private sector. Clear the vets who meet forgiveness criteria quickly. Debt counseling and payment plans for others who begin not to make regular payments with info on facts of loan deference in fed criteria situations.

ND and other institutions with huge endowments who have not done so should make tuition free for middle class families - $60-110K income annually - or offer interest free loans.

2019 Student Loan Debt Statistics

Grad school lending is different than undergrad, it just is. You won't find much compassion from anyone complaining about student loan debt for those in grad school.

Your friends interest rate was not increased because the bank was sold. LOL. That's not how things work. The loan is a contract. The contract has terms. This loan obviously had a variable interest rate. Just because a bank is sold doesn't nullify the loan documents terms.

7.5% is not predatory. LOL. A little on the high end, but not by much. Especially if it's
grad school debt.

My sons financial aid has exceeded tuition at Notre Dame and we are towards the top end of the income range. We do have 4 kids, which impacts it to some degree, but ND's financial aid program is awesome.
 

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Grad school lending is different than undergrad, it just is. You won't find much compassion from anyone complaining about student loan debt for those in grad school.

Agree. Qualifications - for profit law schools and schools that do not meet fed guidelines for after-school job numbers. New tax law taxing grad school jobs or stipends is ridiculous.

Your friends interest rate was not increased because the bank was sold. LOL. That's not how things work. The loan is a contract. The contract has terms. This loan obviously had a variable interest rate. Just because a bank is sold doesn't nullify the loan documents terms.

I suspect as much too. I would cap or eliminate the variable interest rates. Banks often also benefit from the same customers doing business with them including home and auto loans.

7.5% is not predatory. LOL. A little on the high end, but not by much. Especially if it's
grad school debt.

I think of predatory as the credit card interest rates - double or triple the 7.5%. Rather the behavior seems predatory or borderline if you wish. Clearly, people would take out fixed loans if enough were provided.

My sons financial aid has exceeded tuition at Notre Dame and we are towards the top end of the income range. We do have 4 kids, which impacts it to some degree, but ND's financial aid program is awesome.

They have three children. I'm sure you would prefer ND's tuition to be fixed at the freshman year rate. Let universities contract with specific financial institutions, negotiating rates and terms. I imagine competition between financial institutions for ND's business would be brisk knowing the type of parent and student ND admits.

Otherwise, one spouse could work at ND or a university with connection to it where the employee even if just a secretary gets their children free tuition. Four children x $50-60 x four years? An $800k+ job.
 
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ab2cmiller

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IMO, while capping loan interest rates at 4.5% and making them fixed for grad and undergrad borrowings would just make the problem worse. While the intent may be good (of making the borrowing less expensive), it would likely cause SOME people to borrow more money (which is the real problem), because the interest rates are low etc etc etc. They simply would justify the borrowings in their mind.
 

NorthDakota

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IMO, while capping loan interest rates at 4.5% and making them fixed for grad and undergrad borrowings would just make the problem worse. While the intent may be good (of making the borrowing less expensive), it would likely cause SOME people to borrow more money (which is the real problem), because the interest rates are low etc etc etc. They simply would justify the borrowings in their mind.

They absolutely would do that.
 

ab2cmiller

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You would also be surprised at the number of students who borrow the max, which includes estimated dollars for travel, books and miscellaneous expenses. Full cost of attendance. They borrow enough to cover these "estimated" expenses, because the federal government says they can.

Well what happens in some cases, the student ends up with a credit on their account at the beginning of each semester, because the loans that were credited to their account was greater than the amount due. As soon as the students learned of their credit balances, they would show up and cash out. They now have money in their pocket meant to cover certain expenses, but many would go blow it on electronics, spring break trips, etc etc. etc. In essence they have recklessly increased their student loan borrowings to fund certain lifestyle choices.
 

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Good info. My friend did tell me many people he knew used the money from the loan to buy a truck or other high dollar item and would party. I am not surprised that many people would do that, though how college age adults can have the credit to finance a truck is a mystery. From the Nerdwallet link I posted in #142, ninety-three percent of loans are carried by the federal government with total outstanding federal student loan debt of $1.4 trillion as well as having the ranges of fixed and variable rates for both types. Only seven percent of the 43 million loans are private and privatization of every student loan or even half the loans would mean a huge amount and clearly negatively impact the college/university enrollment at a time when it is decreasing outside of highly selective schools. The smaller state schools may be impacted more with states in financial distress making the tough decisions on which to close. I imagine that some financial institutions may repackage groups of student loans to sell with high and low risk ones together and that sounds like a recipe for what triggered the housing crisis. We also have a soaring debt. As someone noted (also linked here), 43% of the federal governments "assets" are in student loans. The link also graphs how student loan have skyrocketed since the recession. What the implication would be if the feds sold off 43% of their assets is worth considering, especially with budget caps. That would pressure decrease fed spending. It seems that the Dept of Education has a vested interest in dragging their feet on loan forgiveness or declaring some in default. If one is for smaller government, student loan volume needs to be reduced significantly. A 7% return on an investment by a bank is awesome and better or equal to stock returns historically without the ups and downs. Would it be feasible, practical and legal to set up a fund with Vanguard as an example like REITs that one could invest in with guaranteed five percent return? Vanguard either buys up the fed loans or guarantees the feds a certain return. A parent could not only contribute to a 529 but invest in the student loan fund.
 
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Some Irish Bloke

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You would also be surprised at the number of students who borrow the max, which includes estimated dollars for travel, books and miscellaneous expenses. Full cost of attendance. They borrow enough to cover these "estimated" expenses, because the federal government says they can.

Well what happens in some cases, the student ends up with a credit on their account at the beginning of each semester, because the loans that were credited to their account was greater than the amount due. As soon as the students learned of their credit balances, they would show up and cash out. They now have money in their pocket meant to cover certain expenses, but many would go blow it on electronics, spring break trips, etc etc. etc. In essence they have recklessly increased their student loan borrowings to fund certain lifestyle choices.

Yep, happens all the time. I had buddies who did that. Literally financed his spring break, weekend beer money, etc. And that's accruing interest annually while in school and in deferment.

Meanwhile I was working on campus trying to throw as many pennies at my debt as I could.

This is why we need to add basic finance courses to the core curriculum in HS. Kids don't understand how to balance a check book let alone take on tens of thousands of dollars in a responsible manner.

It's okay though, we have financially illiterate philosophers running around our college campuses.
 
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