Defense?

[NDinLA is a TROLL]

Anyone else skeptical about our defense this year as well as Kelly going back to the 3-4.

I mean when Kelly was in Cincy, his rush defense was 61th (144/ypg) and pass defense was 78th (230/ypg) in the nation. Or are we gong to just outscore everyone.

Thoughts?

 

[NeuteredDoomer]

I'm not sure it matters if D plays a base 3-4 or a 4-3 or a 5-2 etc, since stunting and 0,1,2,3 etc. technique varies on the spot. I liked that the D played vanilla D in the spring game and LBs actually intercepted passes. Imagine that. Coverage in the flats, coverage in the hook zones, DBs allowed to do their jobs... I think the stupid is finally gone from the D this year and athletes will be allowed to be athletes and put a fence around the ball.

 

[mgriff]

We also had our front seven playing out of position last year. Each and every one of them, with the exception of maybe Ian Williams, yet I make the case that he did an incredible job as a frosh in the 3-4 and then saw a decline in productivity. Ethan Johnson is a 3-4 DE who was asked to play the 3 technique undersized. KLM is a 3-4 DE who was playing DE in a 4-3. You could argue it is still the DE position, yet the requirements are drastically different in a 4-3 than a 3-4, and that isn't even getting into an attacking 4-3 and a no crease 3-4. Manti is an ILB and was playing outside. Brian Smith is an OLB who was playing inside. Fleming was playing a 4-3 DE when he should have been at OLB. Now on to Cincy

Cincy replaced 10 of their 11 starters on defense last year, and still finished better in those categories than the Irish last season. Now the obvious argument is that they did that with a much less "talented" roster. All that means is that the potential at Notre Dame is greater, and I think that, if you examine both teams, you would come to the conclusion that Notre Dame has better athletes, but not football players, and that is apparent from the statistics. Now the variable which will carry over and allow us to perform this experiment is Kelly, Longo, and Diaco. Those gentlemen produced our Exhibit A in Cincinnati, and now will give us Exhibit B to compare at Notre Dame. We can't really have a control group, but we'll make due.

Ultimately, we will see this year just how important coaching was at both universities. Notre Dame will be aided in the fact that they will be transitioning back to the 3-4, where their players fit more naturally, and they have the majority of them back. We'll have to wait until the season to scientifically measure your questions Reggie Bush. Even if we don't get the desired results, we can just say it was his first year and give BK a few more. ;D

 

[NDinLA is a TROLL]

I personally hate the 3-4 with our team because you have it relies multiple LB play with speed and strength and I don't think we have the personnel.

 

[mgriff]

I personally hate the 3-4 with our team because you have it relies multiple LB play with speed and strength and I don't think we have the personnel.

I disagree, Smith is better suited to play in space, and Fleming was waaaay to small to be playing DE. I don't think anyone can dispute Manti's athletic ability and potential. Steve Filer is a freak athlete, but the question again comes down to; can BK, Diaco, and Longo turn them from athletes into football players? Now I have no proof to say yes, but my inclination goes in that direction. We will just have to wait and see.

 

[NeuteredDoomer]

We also had our front seven playing out of position last year. Each and every one of them, with the exception of maybe Ian Williams, yet I make the case that he did an incredible job as a frosh in the 3-4 and then saw a decline in productivity. Ethan Johnson is a 3-4 DE who was asked to play the 3 technique undersized. KLM is a 3-4 DE who was playing DE in a 4-3. You could argue it is still the DE position, yet the requirements are drastically different in a 4-3 than a 3-4, and that isn't even getting into an attacking 4-3 and a no crease 3-4. Manti is an ILB and was playing outside. Brian Smith is an OLB who was playing inside. Fleming was playing a 4-3 DE when he should have been at OLB. Now on to Cincy

Cincy replaced 10 of their 11 started on defense last year, and still finished better in those categories than the Irish last season. Now the obvious argument is that they did that with a much less "talented" roster. All that means is that the potential at Notre Dame is greater, and I think that, if you examine both teams, you would come to the conclusion that Notre Dame has better athletes, but not football players, and that is apparent from the statistics. Now the variable which will carry over and allow us to perform this experiment is Kelly, Longo, and Diaco. Those gentlemen produced our Exhibit A in Cincinnati, and now will give us Exhibit B to compare at Notre Dame. We can't really have a control group, but we'll make due.

Ultimately, we will see this year just how important coaching was at both universities. Notre Dame will be aided in the fact that they will be transitioning back to the 3-4, where their players fit more naturally, and they have the majority of them back. We'll have to wait until the season to scientifically measure your questions Reggie Bush. Even if we don't get the desired results, we can just say it was his first year and give BK a few more. ;D

Yikes Boss. What the hell you doing on a message board? Get out of Ft. Sam or wherever the hell you are and get into coaching some football.Oh snap, am I thinking about Military Irish? Whatever... mgriff, go coach us some football.

 

[PatsandBostonfan1975]

All I know is Kelly wins. He's recruiting defense this year for next so he knows what wins . I'm excited Granted defense will have growing pains and with Coaches offense be out there alot . I can't help but think Teo on any team they are good shape . In my football mind( I am A 4th grade football coach after all).I feel he went friggin undefeated at Cincy.Cincy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Lets see what he could do at Notre Dame.I think we all agree we have more talent this year then Kelly had last year.The one thing we all agreed on is Mr. Weis could do is recruit. Let's see what a real college football coach can do with the talent.

 

[mgriff]

I would also like to add that just because they are switching back to a 3-4 doesn't mean they are going to be an elite defense. There is absolutely no way they could have corrected all of the bad habits and deficiencies before the start of the season. I don't care how good anyone says Kelly and his staff are, they are not that good. Can we expect an improvement? Yes. Do I think they will be "elite"? No. They may even be markedly improved, but to think that this defense will end up as one of the best in college football is crazy. If that happens, then I will subject myself to some terrible act you characters think up.

 

[Riddickulous]

A Top 50 defense would be an outstanding improvement, IMO.

 

[NeuteredDoomer]

I would also like to add that just because they are switching back to a 3-4 doesn't mean they are going to be an elite defense. There is absolutely no way they could have corrected all of the bad habits and deficiencies before the start of the season. I don't care how good anyone says Kelly and his staff are, they are not that good. Can we expect an improvement? Yes. Do I think they will be "elite"? No. They may even be markedly improved, but to think that this defense will end up as one of the best in college football is crazy. If that happens, then I will subject myself to some terrible act you characters think up.

Bad habits are corrected pretty quickly, if discipline and the fear of God are struck into the athletes. It may only take a month or so to correct problems, but definitely by year 3 a good program will be rolling.

 

[cincy gold]

one thing to keep in mind is that kellys offense scored so fast that the defense was on the field a lot and i dont expect it to be very different at nd. hopefully the defense will be deep this year i am not so sure but for the future. teams will definately try and control the clock and keep the offense off the firld so i would think teams would try and run the ball on us

 

[Irish.Ca]

I think we'll be much better in the 3-4. I"ve seen the new system referred to as a stop-gap one. Everyplayer in the front 7 is responsible for a gap. If we can fill the gaps and stop the run as we're supposed to, then the linebackers can drop back into coverage and help the secondary and we should be laughing.

 

[Stalking_Eagle]

I stunt like my daddy so we should be good.

 

[GEORGIA DOMER]

I think kelly O is going to put points on the board at such a high and consistant rate that other teams O are going to make mistakes. If we can produce 3 and outs on D we will be fine. If kelly keeps recruiting talented defensive players I see the time of possesion start to level out. with ND outscoring alot of teams! GO IRISH

 

[iamtrulyblessed]

The way Diaco runs the 3-4 defense is amazing, it's not the typical 3-4.

 

[GEORGIA DOMER]

it always helps to have one of the best DE in the country coming in cant wait to see diaco cut him lose and reign some terror down!

 

[Bogtrotter07]

I mean when Kelly was in Cincy, his rush defense was 61th (144/ypg) and pass defense was 78th (230/ypg) in the nation. Or are we gong to just outscore everyone.

Just a note of caution, by the NCAA statistics, Cincinnati finished ahead of Auburn, California, Michigan State, Michigan, FSU, Notre Dame, Purdue and Stanford. Further, it is hard to compile, but how many defenses that were ranked above the Bearcats spent as much time on the field? As already noted ten starters were replaced, and I am not sure I would get many ND fans that would take a straight up trade, ND for Cinci’s talent.

This brings up my prediction, and the reasoning behind it. I believe ND will have the biggest single season improvement in defensive statistics ever. Speed. Last year’s starting middle linebacker was clocked at a 5.03 second 40. With the lack of conditioning on the part of some athletes, lateral movement and explosiveness were not what they should be. Finally, has anyone looked at last years tapes and seen one defensive player who knew what the hell he was supposed to do and was able to do it? I am to this day not sure the defensive backs, and front seven were playing as part of one or the same defense.

I think that if you have been watching, particularly at the spring game, (where they dialed down the defense so far), that BK is pulling a Lou. Gloom and doom. I think the defense is READY TO ROCK this year. I would not be surprised to see a top ten defense. The kids understand it, are motivated, and are to the man bigger and much faster than last year.

 

[GEORGIA DOMER]

top ten within 5 years dont see it this year. will look good early then taper off.

 

[nd1]

i thik it will be better than the last couple of years. it will get alot better as kelly gets these kids in here to play his defense.

 

[iamtrulyblessed]

I can't wait either. For real, I was real skeptical at first once I had heard they were running a 3-4 defense cause I really thought Aaron was a 4-3 type of kid, but let me just tell you that when I seen tapes on Diacos 3-4.............WOW!! Impressive......

 

[UPMich_NDfan]

I really like this guy. I echo Trulyblessed, his 3-4 is really something else. We had a chance to sit down with him at the coaches clinic because we were a bit skeptical as a staff also. I think this is a big reason Kelly wants such privacy on the practices. It will be similar to what they did in Cinci, but he has some very interesting twists and tweaks that the will use with the ND personal. Call me a homer because he actually sat down and took the time to talk with our staff(and was an amazing speaker during clinic sessions), but man I think this guy could be the next big thing in college football.

 

[GEORGIA DOMER]

if he pans out ,lets hope he is a "head coach in waiting" and goes no where for a really long time!

 

[iamtrulyblessed]

Excuse me, you took the words right out of my mouth......how dare you! The twists and treaks..........................WATCH OUT!!

 

[Old Man Mike]

Obviously Mrs. Lynch is positioning herself to be a Diaco assistant coach by the time Aaron enrolls--Right on! --- Regarding the quality of the defense this year, when I look at some of the guys who are not even starting on the front seven, I see us as a deep outfit who will not fade either across quarters nor across the season--lots of potential playing time with quality athletes. Also, some coaching staffs, including in the pros, believe that the 3-4 is a bit harder to block if you are trying to run. ND plays many run-oriented teams this year. We MUST stuff the run. I believe [hope?] that the quality of our opponents' QB/WRs this year is down a bit generally, [I know,not everywhere] and that run-stuffing is this year's priority. My big concern this year is that Gray and Walls stay healthy, Blanton has a good "nickel" year, and some two-people learn how to play safety. Should that happen, in Aaron's words [which are becoming my motto] "We gunna be Beast!!".

 

[iamtrulyblessed]

I love it.........Lmao!

 

[UPMich_NDfan]

if he pans out ,lets hope he is a "head coach in waiting" and goes no where for a really long time!

Haha of course Georgia, by next big thing I meant after he helps bring back to back National Titles to ND Then maybe...maybe we can let him go to....ahhhh....Army!? They are likable enough lol.

 

[UPMich_NDfan]

Excuse me, you took the words right out of my mouth......how dare you! The twists and treaks..........................WATCH OUT!!

Haha yes and I took the words straight from his mouth! Now add your son in to the equation of those twists and tweaks, WATCH OUT may be a mild understatement!

 

[BestBIrish47]

There is a Huge..and I mean HUGE difference in the schemes we are running now and the ones Tenuta ran last year. Regardless of allignment.... here is a quick breakdown....

Tenuta- This is an attacking style 4-3.. but had many 3-4 concepts in it to better fit some of our personnel. A 3-4 over/ under slides the D line into a very similar 4-3 look with a DE able to play down or up..IE OLB type. This D is predicated on out numbering the protection with overloading gaps with Defenders.... ie multilple people attacking same gaps. This Defense can be very effective if The DBs can lock up Man to Man and the Game Plan/Defensive Play calling is on point.
Problems- We were out of position during our stunts and Blitz packages, (it is alot like gambling, you either get there and disrupt the play, or you get gashed for big yardage. This Defense also takes much more energy to run since Zone is very difficult to play effectively.

Diaco- A Gap based assignment Defense. 3-4 allignment that uses the same Under/Over Technique as above. The big difference is the gap assignments change based on the stunts and blitz packages are easier to hide and execute from the protection. IE- Give a 3-4 under look, DL slants to playside gap LBs flow to gaps. assigned with Pass responsiblity to either their zone or man. The LB or Safety who Blitzes gap is covered by either a Zone blitz or in cases of Cover 2, a short side safety comes up to play spy or man making it a cover one after the ball is snapped. Benefit: Less Big Plays- This D really makes the Offense Drive and earn yardage testing consistency of their execution. This Defense also allows DLine play to be more aggressive because they Know they have Gap responsibility then get to the ball.


I hope this helps...and GO IRISH

 

[iamtrulyblessed]

So, who will be the pass rusher........hmmmmmmm you just don't know, could be anyone!!

 

[GEORGIA DOMER]

LOL

LOL

So, who will be the pass rusher........hmmmmmmm you just don't know, could be anyone!!

NIIIICE