Culture

[greyhammer90]

Of course there was shit pop decades ago. That's not really the point of the video. There's shit pop now, there was shit pop then. The difference is now it's even shittier because it's blander, more homogenous aurally, synthesized instead of played on instruments, horribly over-processed to the nth degree, and there's virtually no current serious music like there was then with the Beatles, Stones, Zeppelin, ABB, Floyd, and etc. Did you watch the video and hear his stats and explanations?

No I didn't, because I'm not particularly interested in watching a 20 minute video on a topic I've already watched plenty of videos on before. I've heard about the volume wars, the reduction of mid-ranges, etc. all before. My larger point is that most of what you're saying comes down to taste. For example, there is nothing "objectively" better about having something played on real instruments rather than synthetic. You might have a preference, but there's no objectively correct way to make good music. Even "blandness" and "simplicity" aren't a indication of quality. Some music needs a complex soundscape to convey the artist's intent, and for other music a complex soundscape would do the opposite. Also, nearly all art is responsive to art that came before it.

For example, if someone were to level the "overproduced" complaints at Charli XCX's music, I would say they might have media literacy issues. A lot of hyperpop is purposefully overproduced with aggressively repeating hooks to create an artificial bubblegum sheen that is a direct response to pop music of the prior decades.

I also think you give yourself away when you say there is no "serious" music being made right now. There's a lot of great artists making capital-G Great music currently. If you can't find it, it's really a you problem. To Pimp A Butterfly is arguably the greatest concept album ever made and it was done in the last decade. It's also as sonically complex and musically distinct as pop music gets, with a ton of live instrumentals.



If there is one thing that I will agree that old music is generally better at, it's mastering. But the cause of that is largely because Spotify streams heavily compressed music, and so record labels don't consider it a necessity because 90% of the audience isn't going to hear it anyway. But even this isn't a rule. There's modern artists who take their mastering as seriously as Neil Young.

 

[Sea Turtle]

Taylor Swift and Beyonce are the queens and the epitome of modern music. Neither can sing, dance, play an instrument or write. It's all marketing.

 

[Bishop2b5]

No I didn't, because I'm not particularly interested in watching a 20 minute video on a topic I've already watched plenty of videos on before. I've heard about the volume wars, the reduction of mid-ranges, etc. all before. My larger point is that most of what you're saying comes down to taste. For example, there is nothing "objectively" better about having something played on real instruments rather than synthetic. You might have a preference, but there's no objectively correct way to make good music. Even "blandness" and "simplicity" aren't a indication of quality. Some music needs a complex soundscape to convey the artist's intent, and for other music a complex soundscape would do the opposite. Also, nearly all art is responsive to art that came before it.

For example, if someone were to level the "overproduced" complaints at Charli XCX's music, I would say they might have media literacy issues. A lot of hyperpop is purposefully overproduced with aggressively repeating hooks to create an artificial bubblegum sheen that is a direct response to pop music of the prior decades.

I also think you give yourself away when you say there is no "serious" music being made right now. There's a lot of great artists making capital-G Great music currently. If you can't find it, it's really a you problem. To Pimp A Butterfly is arguably the greatest concept album ever made and it was done in the last decade. It's also as sonically complex and musically distinct as pop music gets, with a ton of live instrumentals.



If there is one thing that I will agree that old music is generally better at, it's mastering. But the cause of that is largely because Spotify streams heavily compressed music, and so record labels don't consider it a necessity because 90% of the audience isn't going to hear it anyway. But even this isn't a rule. There's modern artists who take their mastering as seriously as Neil Young.

I'll stick to enjoying a nice steak cooked over a wood fire with a baked potato and some roasted broccoli, or a home-cooked pot roast with carrots & potatoes, or a nice salad, or some grilled fish and veggies as opposed to a steady diet of Chocolate Frosted Sugar Bombs, Cheez Whiz, Impossible meat hotdogs, and Quarter Pounders.

 

[greyhammer90]

I'll stick to enjoying a nice steak cooked over a wood fire with a baked potato and some roasted broccoli, or a home-cooked pot roast with carrots & potatoes, or a nice salad, or some grilled fish and veggies as opposed to a steady diet of Chocolate Frosted Sugar Bombs, Cheez Whiz, Impossible meat hotdogs, and Quarter Pounders.

Yes, the nutritional content of good healthy meals compared to junk food is the same as the youth listening to music you don't like. Excellent analogy. All pop music just so happened to objectively peak when you were young lol.

I would love to say that I'm in disbelief about the arrogance on display, but I've been in enough tussles with Bishop to know better. I'm presenting what has to be the most blaise take of all time ("art is subjective, you're just a guy with an opinion"). But for Bishop it's not enough that he likes his generation's music more than the current generation's music. It must be objectively the best, and he can prove it with facts and logic! Shame on me for rudely interupting his masturbatory excercise.

 

[Bishop2b5]

Yes, the nutritional content of good healthy meals compared to junk food is the same as the youth listening to music you don't like. Excellent analogy. All pop music just so happened to objectively peak when you were young lol.

I would love to say that I'm in disbelief about the arrogance on display, but I've been in enough tussles with Bishop to know better. I'm presenting what has to be the most blaise take of all time ("art is subjective, you're just a guy with an opinion"). But for Bishop it's not enough that he likes his generation's music more than the current generation's music. It must be objectively the best, and he can prove it with facts and logic! Shame on me for rudely interupting his masturbatory excercise.

I wasn't looking for an argument or fight, let alone to insult you. Just posted some evidence that, in general, today's pop music is significantly worse by almost any objective standard. You appear to have gotten a bit mad that someone insulted your generation's music. Not my intention. I may be wrong, but YouTube is loaded with professional musicians and producers such as Rick Beato who say the same thing and give ample informed and objective evidence. You listen to and enjoy whatever you like. I'll stand by my very accurate food analogy of steaks & veggies vs fast food and sugar.

 

[GATTACA!]

The Beetles don't have shit on Motzart. All real music was made in the 1700s.

 

[Bishop2b5]

The Beetles don't have shit on Motzart. All real music was made in the 1700.

I can get on board with that! Actually, I've never been a huge Mozart fan, but I LOVE Bach, Chopin, and most of the other great composers of that era. Don't laugh, but I really like plain chant - what most know as Gregorian chant.

 

[greyhammer90]

I wasn't looking for an argument or fight, let alone to insult you. Just posted some evidence that, in general, today's pop music is significantly worse by almost any objective standard. You appear to have gotten a bit mad that someone insulted your generation's music. Not my intention. I may be wrong, but YouTube is loaded with professional musicians and producers such as Rick Beato who say the same thing and give ample informed and objective evidence. You listen to and enjoy whatever you like. I'll stand by my very accurate food analogy of steaks & veggies vs fast food and sugar.

It's not my generation you're insulting. I just can't imagine being so incapable of introspection. You are this meme come to life:

The Beetles don't have shit on Motzart. All real music was made in the 1700s.

You joke, but this shit has been going on forever. Every generation has some softheaded members who think they had good music figured out, and it's always embarassing. See this thread:



Here's one of people saying new music is just noise that goes back to the 1800s:

I can get on board with that! Actually, I've never been a huge Mozart fan, but I LOVE Bach, Chopin, and most of the other great composers of that era. Don't laugh, but I really like plain chant - what most know as Gregorian chant.

You're trying too hard. Or to borrow a phrase from the youth of today, cringe.

 

[IrishLax]

Taylor Swift and Beyonce are the queens and the epitome of modern music. Neither can sing, dance, play an instrument or write. It's all marketing.

Taylor Swift has written every single song on all 11 of her albums.

 

[GATTACA!]

Taylor Swift has written every single song on all 11 of her albums.

 

[greyhammer90]

Taylor Swift has written every single song on all 11 of her albums.

And while neither of them make music to my taste, I'm pretty sure saying Beyonce can't sing is just verifiably untrue.

 

[Sea Turtle]

And while neither of them make music to my taste, I'm pretty sure saying Beyonce can't sing is just verifiably untrue.

Yeah, she's a real Adele 😆

 

[greyhammer90]

Yeah, she's a real Adele 😆

So Adele has a good voice to you? Just trying to get a baseline here of what you think a good voice is.

 

[Bishop2b5]

It's not my generation you're insulting. I just can't imagine being so incapable of introspection. You are this meme come to life:

View attachment 3056044

You're trying too hard. Or to borrow a phrase from the youth of today, cringe.

Oh wow, you ARE butthurt! Calm the fuck down, dude. I shared a video that uses actual science and studies and stats to show that modern pop is demonstrably worse than that of years past, which is the opinion of most professional musicians and producers too, and your response is childish and petty insults that make me roll my eyes. You're this triggered by someone demonstrating that your generation's music isn't just the greatest thing ever? Seriously? It's a discussion, not a personal attack on you. Lighten up and get ahold of yourself.

 

[Bishop2b5]

Taylor Swift has written every single song on all 11 of her albums.

Kinda sorta. She's done some covers which she obviously didn't write, and she's had a co-writer on several songs. Your point is valid though. She is a talented writer and does the vast majority of her own writing.

 

[ulukinatme]

This song discussion reminded me of a comparison of lyrics and their decline from the previous generation to this generation. It was something like comparing Bohemian Rhapsody to a Beyonce song that repeats the same line over and over.

Then I remembered this:

 

[Irish#1]

Because they were not part of the discussion. Lol.

And neither was Jan 6 until you mentioned it. lol

 

[Irish#1]

Music from way back when is considered superior because we only remember the good stuff. Trust me, pop was largely shit in the 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s. We remember the Beatles but forget about Gerry & the Pacemakers. Besides, trying to claim that any art is "objectively worse" is missing the point of art.

You can diss on Gerry & the Pacemakers, but tread lightly if you mention Herman's Hermits. lol

I think Bishop has a point. I can listen to a lot of different genres, but damn near everyone of today's pop songs sound the same.

 

[Irish#1]

I've never listened to this guy, but that's a pretty good song. I'll have to give his music a try.

 

[greyhammer90]

You can diss on Gerry & the Pacemakers, but tread lightly if you mention Herman's Hermits. lol

I think Bishop has a point. I can listen to a lot of different genres, but damn near everyone of today's pop songs sound the same.

I'm not trying to tell you that you're wrong for not liking modern pop music. It isn't surprising that guys in their 50/60s don't fuck with Tyler the Creator. The issue is acting like this taste is some objective marker of quality decline when it's just a generation not like the younger generation's stuff. My grandparents thought the Beatles were noise, my parents think rap is noise. I probably won't like my son's taste in music, but I hope I have the humility to understand that it's just, like, my opinion man.

 

[Irish#1]

All I know about Swift is that once her and Kelce split, she'll have enough material for a full album.

 

[Irish#1]

I'm not trying to tell you that you're wrong for not liking modern pop music. It isn't surprising that guys in their 50/60s don't fuck with Tyler the Creator. The issue is acting like this taste is some objective marker of quality decline when it's just a generation not like the younger generation's stuff. My grandparents thought the Beatles were noise, my parents think rap is noise. I probably won't like my son's taste in music, but I hope I have the humility to understand that it's just, like, my opinion man.

I know you're not. Just happen to agree with Bishop on today's pop. It's all subjective. I like Big Band music, but don't care much for rock & roll from the 50's. I don't mind rap. Use to never like country, but it's moved closer to Rock & Roll over the years that I find a lot of that music enjoyable. If I'm driving by myself, what I listen to the most is mid 60's through the 70's rock and 90's Grunge/Alternative.

 

[ulukinatme]

I was born in '82, but I've been to more Oldies concerts than anything from my own generation. I've seen the Turtles, Three Dog Night, Gary Lewis and the Playboys, Rick Derringer, the Spinners, the Young Rascals, America, Davy Jones, and Tony Orlando. You can throw in Aerosmith and Cheap Trick since they technically were before my time as well. Most of those were together as festival acts , and not all of them were still great, but some of them could still put on a hell of a show. Tony Orlando was incredible, he really knows how to entertain a crowd.

I don't listen to anything from the 2000s, mostly just Classic Rock along with some of those Oldies and a bit of 80s/90s. The day the music died wasn't when Buddy Holly, Richie Valens, and the Big Bopper's plane went down, it was November 16th, 1999. Today's stuff is garbage compared to older music, and most of it was before I was born.

 

[GATTACA!]

I've never listened to this guy, but that's a pretty good song. I'll have to give his music a try.

He’s wholesome too. You should check this one out.

 

[greyhammer90]

He’s wholesome too. You should check this one out.

First time I've seen a murder described as wholesome.

 

[Irish#1]

 

[TorontoGold]

First time I've seen a murder described as wholesome.

Pretty wild to hear this blasted on a regular basis 5 min away from Drakes house lol

 

[Sea Turtle]

All I know about Swift is that once her and Kelce split, she'll have enough material for a full album.

Track list:

Flag on the field
Intentional grounding
Illegal use of the hands
Holding
Offsides
False start
Interference
Love blitz
Trouble in our huddle
Blow the whistle

 

[GATTACA!]

Track list:

Flag on the field
Intentional grounding
Illegal use of the hands
Holding
Offsides
False start
Interference
Love blitz
Trouble in our huddle
Blow the whistle

OMAHA!

 

[Sea Turtle]

I was born in '82, but I've been to more Oldies concerts than anything from my own generation. I've seen the Turtles, Three Dog Night, Gary Lewis and the Playboys, Rick Derringer, the Spinners, the Young Rascals, America, Davy Jones, and Tony Orlando. You can throw in Aerosmith and Cheap Trick since they technically were before my time as well. Most of those were together as festival acts , and not all of them were still great, but some of them could still put on a hell of a show. Tony Orlando was incredible, he really knows how to entertain a crowd.

I don't listen to anything from the 2000s, mostly just Classic Rock along with some of those Oldies and a bit of 80s/90s. The day the music died wasn't when Buddy Holly, Richie Valens, and the Big Bopper's plane went down, it was November 16th, 1999. Today's stuff is garbage compared to older music, and most of it was before I was born.

Cheer up. It's only rock and roll.