Cubs draft Jeff Samardzija!

Grahambo

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I'm a Mets fan so this is unbiased but I think this was a really good trade for both teams. I advocated earlier in this thread for the Cubs to trade him over re-signing him. Great return.

I'd keep an eye on Castro next.



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UmphreakDomer

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i like this move actually. and i like the idea of unloading castro at this point too.
 

woolybug25

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Yes, Cubs fans have a long history of loving trades where they are shipping off actual, proven talent for "potential".

This one is even more classic, as this was a proven talent that would have been willing to re sign with them. Cubbies... Rebuilding since 1901.
 

Pops Freshenmeyer

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Yes, Cubs fans have a long history of loving trades where they are shipping off actual, proven talent for "potential".

This one is even more classic, as this was a proven talent that would have been willing to re sign with them. Cubbies... Rebuilding since 1901.

Samardzija's camp didn't even respond to the Cubs last offer. I don't blame him for it but it appears he didn't want to wait around for Chicago to be competitive again.
 

UmphreakDomer

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wooly--sharks not a #1 and shouldn't get #1 money. i think they got more talent in the trade and didn't get locked into a huge soriano bad deal. they do need, obviously some help in starting rotation and in the pen.
sharks given up 20 runs in the last month. going 1-3 with 2 no decisions (both losses as well). good ERA and decent SO numbers--and yes, the cubs bats are just now coming alive whereas earlier in the season pitchers had no help from the offense--but not good enough for $85M.
his 7 year (162 game) averages are 7-10 3.97 ERA. nope.
 

irishfan

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Think its good for both sides. Cubs weren't making any playoff moves this year, and going .500 next year might not even be realistic. Might as well trade these two while their stock is high and get some young guys for them. I bet the Cubs are above .500 in 2016.

A's obviously upgrade the staff for the WS run this year and still can decide next year if they want to keep Shark for another run in 2015 or trade him.
 

CHIDomer9

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He's not a #1 starter, but he wants #1 starter money. That is his right, to demand his full market value, but it was way too much to offer him.

He wanted the Homer Bailey contract. The problem is, Bailey is a career 1 WAR better than him and a full year younger.

I love this trade. The most valuable position player to have is a SS. Baez, Bryant, Almora, Russell, Soler, they are all currency right now. Any of them could be flipped for pitching or another set of prospects.

This is the opposite of short sighted and typical. Short sighted would have been to lock up two 30 y/o pitchers having career years. Neither is ever going to be this good again. Typical would have been to cave in to the meatball "pay the man" fans who think the front office and ownership owe them anything. They owe the fans an organization that pays for future, not past, performance.
 

bobbyok1

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wooly--sharks not a #1 and shouldn't get #1 money. i think they got more talent in the trade and didn't get locked into a huge soriano bad deal. they do need, obviously some help in starting rotation and in the pen.
sharks given up 20 runs in the last month. going 1-3 with 2 no decisions (both losses as well). good ERA and decent SO numbers--and yes, the cubs bats are just now coming alive whereas earlier in the season pitchers had no help from the offense--but not good enough for $85M.
his 7 year (162 game) averages are 7-10 3.97 ERA. nope.

Couldn't agree more Umph. For the naysayers that want to proclaim "same old Cubs, always rebuilding" that is just an ignorant statement. For one, the current owners are still very new to the team and the current leadership in Epstein, Hoyer, and McLeod are proven winners at building from the ground up. This is not the same owners or leadership from the past 100 years, so to compare the current organization to the ones of the past is silly. Second, the Cubs now have arguably the top farm system in all of baseball (just because it is not an exact science I leave room for discussion). They were easily a top five by all accounts, then they added Schwarber (#4 overall pick 2014 draft), and they just picked up the A's top two prospects in Addison Russell (20 yrs) and Billy McKinney (19 yrs), Russell being ranked as high as the #4 prospect in all of baseball. They also nabbed a decent pitching prospect in Dan Straily who began the year in the A's rotation only to be sent back down to Triple-A for some work. And they also will receive a player yet to be named. When is the last time, if ever, that it could be said the Cubs have the top farm system in baseball? Four of the top fifteen prospects in all of baseball. The main need they will likely now work on is pitching. Let's not forget they have all the bats and gloves in place to soon field a very good lineup AND they have extra chips to deal in order to gain some arms with when the time(s) and player(s) are right. I have no problem at all seeing how this will be a very good team in just a couple of years barring a significant injury bug, which could also happen with proven players. The are stockpiling talent, and will likely get another in the 15' draft. This is going to be a very good Cubs team. For those who don't want to believe it, that's their right. But I would put my money on them being a playoff contender for years to come in the very near future.
 

woolybug25

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Couldn't agree more Umph. For the naysayers that want to proclaim "same old Cubs, always rebuilding" that is just an ignorant statement. For one, the current owners are still very new to the team and the current leadership in Epstein, Hoyer, and McLeod are proven winners at building from the ground up. This is not the same owners or leadership from the past 100 years, so to compare the current organization to the ones of the past is silly. Second, the Cubs now have arguably the top farm system in all of baseball (just because it is not an exact science I leave room for discussion). They were easily a top five by all accounts, then they added Schwarber (#4 overall pick 2014 draft), and they just picked up the A's top two prospects in Addison Russell (20 yrs) and Billy McKinney (19 yrs), Russell being ranked as high as the #4 prospect in all of baseball. They also nabbed a decent pitching prospect in Dan Straily who began the year in the A's rotation only to be sent back down to Triple-A for some work. And they also will receive a player yet to be named. When is the last time, if ever, that it could be said the Cubs have the top farm system in baseball? Four of the top fifteen prospects in all of baseball. The main need they will likely now work on is pitching. Let's not forget they have all the bats and gloves in place to soon field a very good lineup AND they have extra chips to deal in order to gain some arms with when the time(s) and player(s) are right. I have no problem at all seeing how this will be a very good team in just a couple of years barring a significant injury bug, which could also happen with proven players. The are stockpiling talent, and will likely get another in the 15' draft. This is going to be a very good Cubs team. For those who don't want to believe it, that's their right. But I would put my money on them being a playoff contender for years to come in the very near future.

Ignorent? Really? What have the Cubs done differently here than what they have always done? Looks to me that they traded away a guy with proven ability at the hardest position to project/develop, one that would have re signed with them, for unproven prospect. You may feel that different results will happen this time, but it certainly isn't ignorant for non-Cubs fans to take a "believe it when we see it" approach to the Cubs... Once again... Trading away a proven commodity for unproven players. Are we suppose to believe that they will develop these guys? Are we suppose to believe that they will construct the right team around them? Are we suppose to believe that they will be able to sign them when they become FA's if they do? What has this organization ever done to make us "ignorant" fans believe that they are capable of doing so?

Tell me about how great the new management is when they have actually accomplished something in Chicago. Because right now... They haven't done shit.

Finally, regarding the "he's not a number #1" guy, I disagree. He's certainly talented enough (this team never gave him run support) and we will certainly see why one of the better front offices in baseball were willig to give up good prospects for his services.
 

woolybug25

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Samardzija would not have re-signed with the Cubs.

Only because they openly put him on the trading block. There is nothing that he said before this situation to make anyone believe that he wouldn't re sign with Chicago. Even the baseball analysts share that sentiment.
 

IrishLax

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Yeah this trade is great for the Cubs... if you're OK with being non-competitive for a couple years. That's effectively what a move like this signals. That you don't care about this season or the next season but two seasons from now you're hoping those prospects have developed and you spent the money somewhere else that helps you more.

It would be like the Bears dealing Brandon Marshall right now for 1st and 2nd round picks in 2016. It kills your chances for the rest of the current season, hurts your chances for the 2015 season if you can't grab a good replacement free agent with the $$ you saved, but in 2016 you'll have two young and (hopefully) elite talents you otherwise wouldn't have... and you have them on the cheap for an number of years.

Personally, I can't stand this kind of quitter mentality, and I don't believe organizations part with prospects they think are close to being elite big league players. The only way I like this move is if Jeff told them flat out he would not resign with them... and which point you have to get whatever value you can.
 

Pops Freshenmeyer

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Ignorent? Really? What have the Cubs done differently here than what they have always done? Looks to me that they traded away a guy with proven ability at the hardest position to project/develop, one that would have re signed with them, for unproven prospect. You may feel that different results will happen this time, but it certainly isn't ignorant for non-Cubs fans to take a "believe it when we see it" approach to the Cubs... Once again... Trading away a proven commodity for unproven players. Are we suppose to believe that they will develop these guys? Are we suppose to believe that they will construct the right team around them? Are we suppose to believe that they will be able to sign them when they become FA's if they do? What has this organization ever done to make us "ignorant" fans believe that they are capable of doing so?

Tell me about how great the new management is when they have actually accomplished something in Chicago. Because right now... They haven't done shit.

Finally, regarding the "he's not a number #1" guy, I disagree. He's certainly talented enough (this team never gave him run support) and we will certainly see why one of the better front offices in baseball were willig to give up good prospects for his services.

The Cubs have only been in rebuilding mode for a few years. When the Trib owned the team and wanted to sell they poured a ton of money into the roster. The end result was a bunch of dead money on the payroll in order to compete in the short term (Soriano). Their weakness was in paying retail for average production in too many places while the farm system was unable to augment the roster with cheap talent.

It's true that the Cubs haven't developed a position player star since probably Palmeiro but there's no reason to lump the failings of McPhail, Hendry, etc. in with a new front office who should get a blank slate.

I think they have been somewhat overzealous with the teardown but there's no way to get around the fact they inherited one of the oldest, most expensive teams in MLB coupled with one of the least talented farm systems. It's true that Epstein/Hoyer haven't accomplished much at the MLB level but getting the farm system from one of the worst in baseball to what is probably the consensus number 1 is a nice intermediate step. It remains to be seen whether this eventually results in winning but I don't see why optimism is misplaced.
 

bobbyok1

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Ignorent? Really? What have the Cubs done differently here than what they have always done? Looks to me that they traded away a guy with proven ability at the hardest position to project/develop, one that would have re signed with them, for unproven prospect. You may feel that different results will happen this time, but it certainly isn't ignorant for non-Cubs fans to take a "believe it when we see it" approach to the Cubs... Once again... Trading away a proven commodity for unproven players. Are we suppose to believe that they will develop these guys? Are we suppose to believe that they will construct the right team around them? Are we suppose to believe that they will be able to sign them when they become FA's if they do? What has this organization ever done to make us "ignorant" fans believe that they are capable of doing so?

Tell me about how great the new management is when they have actually accomplished something in Chicago. Because right now... They haven't done shit.

Finally, regarding the "he's not a number #1" guy, I disagree. He's certainly talented enough (this team never gave him run support) and we will certainly see why one of the better front offices in baseball were willig to give up good prospects for his services.

*EDIT* I will admit that using the word "ignorant" was a bit harsh and unnecessary. My apologies. Maybe I could have instead said it is "unfair" to link the decisions of the current organization with those of the past because there are vast differences based on my argument above. I do think that Cubs front office has done some very good things since landing in Chicago. Has that turned out a good major league team? No. Was that the plan to this point? Not likely. Of course they want to win, but as has been stated previously they inherited a mess. Lots of dead weight in the majors and a weak farm system. That is not something that is going to be turned around in a couple of years. They are taking the long road, which unfortunately is the only option they have in my opinion if they want to get to a place of fielding a consistently good team. And I would say they are well on their way to the end goal of a very good ball club for years to come.
 
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CHIDomer9

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Ignorent? Really? What have the Cubs done differently here than what they have always done?

Than what they have always done? You realize this isn't the front office that signed Soriano to a $136/8 year deal when all of those 8 years were after he turned 31 years old, right? But it is the one that found a trading partner that would actually give up a respected AA arm for him in exchange.

This isn't the front office that signed a closer, the most overrated position in the game, to a multiyear deal (Carlos Marmol) or did the same thing with Ryan Dempster. This isn't the same FO that signed Ryan Theriot to a big league contract and paid him in real US currency!

Looks to me that they traded away a guy with proven ability at the hardest position to project/develop, one that would have re signed with them, for unproven prospect.

They traded two guys having the best years of their respective careers. One was an expiring contract and the other is asking to be a $20M per pitcher on the wrong side of 30 y/o.

What has this organization ever done to make us "ignorant" fans believe that they are capable of doing so?

This is a different ownership group and a FO full of smart people. They aren't just building a major league team here. They are constructing an organization. They have taken the farm system from one of the worst to one of the very best in a short period of time. They have invested heavily in the foreign FA market and are attempting to create as many revenue sources as they can from their 100 y/o ballpark.

Finally, regarding the "he's not a number #1" guy, I disagree. He's certainly talented enough (this team never gave him run support) and we will certainly see why one of the better front offices in baseball were willig to give up good prospects for his services.

Run support has nothing to do with whether or not a pitcher is a #1. #1 pitchers aren't #1 pitchers because they are "talented enough." He has had the best first half of his life and this was a perfect time to trade him. In return they are getting valuable currency, the highest ranked SS prospect in the game under team control through most of HRC's full term as POTUS.
 

Grahambo

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The A’s and Cubs Blockbuster Trade | FanGraphs Baseball

It's a good read.

But then again, realize the baseball world we live in. Just in the past two days, both ESPN and the New York Times have run articles about the continuing decline of offense. By wOBA, this season is tied for the seventh-worst since integration, and so there’s an inefficiency to be exploited there. If offense is so difficult to find, then the team who can stockpile it puts themselves in a very, very good situation. The Cubs may have wanted to get pitching back for Samardzija and Hammel, but once they realized Russell was available it was too good of an option to pass up, and they’re clearly betting on teams with pitching to spare coming to their doorstep begging for someone who can actually hit the ball.

Maybe that will be Baez, a consensus Top-7 prospect across all the publications after a .282/.341/.578 (and 37 homers) season at 20 across two levels last year. Maybe it’s Castro, whose bounceback season suddenly makes a contract of five years and $44m (after this year), plus a $16m 2020 team option, look extremely appealing. Considering that all three of them, including Russell, could be in the bigs by this time next year, it’s a situation the Cubs don’t have terribly long to work out, making this offseason interesting.

We shouldn’t gloss over Mckinney, who is in High-A barely more than a year after graduating high school in Texas, and though he may be a bat-only left field type, he has plenty of bat to work with. We shouldn’t skimp on Straily, a soft-tossing righty with home run problems who seems questionable to be a member of the next good Cubs rotation. They’re both important pieces here, particularly Mckinney. But let’s be honest with ourselves; Russell is the get. A very good Cubs system just got remarkably better, and though watching Chris Rusin or Dallas Beeler or Hendricks join Arrieta and Travis Wood and Edwin Jackson may not be fun, 2014 was never a primary year for the Cubs anyway. From a Chicago side, it’s extremely difficult to not like this.
 

Sherm Sticky

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This sucks. Was hoping the Yankees could some how make a deal with the cubs for Jeff
 

Grahambo

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I'm a Mets fan so hush.


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bobbyok1

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arrowryan

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Yeah this trade is great for the Cubs... if you're OK with being non-competitive for a couple years. That's effectively what a move like this signals. That you don't care about this season or the next season but two seasons from now you're hoping those prospects have developed and you spent the money somewhere else that helps you more.

It would be like the Bears dealing Brandon Marshall right now for 1st and 2nd round picks in 2016. It kills your chances for the rest of the current season, hurts your chances for the 2015 season if you can't grab a good replacement free agent with the $$ you saved, but in 2016 you'll have two young and (hopefully) elite talents you otherwise wouldn't have... and you have them on the cheap for an number of years.

Personally, I can't stand this kind of quitter mentality, and I don't believe organizations part with prospects they think are close to being elite big league players. The only way I like this move is if Jeff told them flat out he would not resign with them... and which point you have to get whatever value you can.

I don't understand what you would've wanted them to do. They offered him contract and he said no. As it was said earlier, he wants #1 pitcher money but he's not a #1 and probably never will be.
 

arrowryan

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I hope Castro is the next one to be traded. An infield of Kris Bryant, Javier Baez, Addison Russell, and Anthony Rizzo could be scary
 

Irish Insanity

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As a Tigers fan I'm pissed. I was hoping somehow this would be a trade we made to solidify the starting rotation. The owner wants a World Series before he passes.
 

blueNDgold44

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If the Cubs trade Castro I will be upset but he is having a great season and could probably bring in a haul pretty similar to the Shark.
 
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