Riddickulous
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This has been beaten to death, but Rees if far more accurate and efficient than Crist.
NDinL.A.
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I don't see how anyone can want Crist to start at this point. Guys, it's not something you can quantify, it's just something you can feel. When the team plays under Rees, the team just feels different. More confident. More swagger. More mojo. Whatever you want to call it, it's real. And it was absolutely palpable at the game Saturday.
I was a Crist guy like many of you. Like GoIrish said, still love the kid to death...he's everything I would want my son to be in a person. But even though he was only given one half and a ton of things went wrong that he had no control of, you got the feeling that Crist couldn't dig the team out of that hole. Everyone I talked to in the stadium was clamoring for Rees to get the 2nd half start. EVERYONE. The applause when Rees came in was huge. The defense was jacked up and got a 3 and out.
I was thinking about the USC game, the one where Rees crapped his pants. And it hit me that I'm not sure Crist could have brought the team back on that last drive. Not because he's incapable of turning and handing off the ball, but because I'm not sure the team believes in him like they do Rees. I'm not sure he hits Floyd on that first out pattern that Rees hit, b/c Crist just hasn't done well most of the time when adversity strikes, especially after the Navy 4th and one stop. But Tommy does rise up, and the team does as well.
I used to dismiss Rees b/c he got things Crist never got, namingly a defense and a running game. But maybe it's just the way Tommy handles his team. Maybe they just all respond to him better.
I could be completely wrong here, like I was about Crist. But man, the energy the team (and the crowd) had with Rees under center made me a believer. You just KNEW that the ball was going to matriculate down the field, you just knew it...
I was a Crist guy like many of you. Like GoIrish said, still love the kid to death...he's everything I would want my son to be in a person. But even though he was only given one half and a ton of things went wrong that he had no control of, you got the feeling that Crist couldn't dig the team out of that hole. Everyone I talked to in the stadium was clamoring for Rees to get the 2nd half start. EVERYONE. The applause when Rees came in was huge. The defense was jacked up and got a 3 and out.
I was thinking about the USC game, the one where Rees crapped his pants. And it hit me that I'm not sure Crist could have brought the team back on that last drive. Not because he's incapable of turning and handing off the ball, but because I'm not sure the team believes in him like they do Rees. I'm not sure he hits Floyd on that first out pattern that Rees hit, b/c Crist just hasn't done well most of the time when adversity strikes, especially after the Navy 4th and one stop. But Tommy does rise up, and the team does as well.
I used to dismiss Rees b/c he got things Crist never got, namingly a defense and a running game. But maybe it's just the way Tommy handles his team. Maybe they just all respond to him better.
I could be completely wrong here, like I was about Crist. But man, the energy the team (and the crowd) had with Rees under center made me a believer. You just KNEW that the ball was going to matriculate down the field, you just knew it...
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I would actually have started Crist against Michigan. Hear me out.
Crist earned the job through a lot of practice/scrimmage/reps in spring ball and fall ball. Then he gets pulled after one poor half. OK. Fair for that game. And don't get me wrong, Tommy Rees outplayed him and made a lot of throws I didn't think he could make, but what about the big picture where Crist obviously did something to put him ahead of Rees?
The thing is... we know Tommy can come off the bench and play well. If you give Dayne a couple drives and he isn't doing it you can bring in Tommy. What the hell do you do if Tommy has a couple bad drives? Give him a whole half? The whole game? Where is the leash and how can Dayne do coming off the bench?
I just think it's strange to change your entire plan for the season based on one bad half of football. Lord knows some of the greatest QBs in college and the NFL have played bad games... much less bad halves.
DISCLAIMER: I 100% think Rees gives us the best chance to win.
Crist earned the job through a lot of practice/scrimmage/reps in spring ball and fall ball. Then he gets pulled after one poor half. OK. Fair for that game. And don't get me wrong, Tommy Rees outplayed him and made a lot of throws I didn't think he could make, but what about the big picture where Crist obviously did something to put him ahead of Rees?
The thing is... we know Tommy can come off the bench and play well. If you give Dayne a couple drives and he isn't doing it you can bring in Tommy. What the hell do you do if Tommy has a couple bad drives? Give him a whole half? The whole game? Where is the leash and how can Dayne do coming off the bench?
I just think it's strange to change your entire plan for the season based on one bad half of football. Lord knows some of the greatest QBs in college and the NFL have played bad games... much less bad halves.
DISCLAIMER: I 100% think Rees gives us the best chance to win.
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That's a great question, Lax, and it may be a serious problem for us going forward.
Is Crist capable of providing leadership off the bench? Does Kelly start using Hendrix/ Golson more now in the redzone, thereby supplanting Crist at the #2 as well?
My concern is that there seems to be a significant disparity between what Crist can do in practice and what he can do under pressure. How does such a player remain a serious contender when you've got hungry athletic talent waiting on the bench behind Rees?
Is Crist capable of providing leadership off the bench? Does Kelly start using Hendrix/ Golson more now in the redzone, thereby supplanting Crist at the #2 as well?
My concern is that there seems to be a significant disparity between what Crist can do in practice and what he can do under pressure. How does such a player remain a serious contender when you've got hungry athletic talent waiting on the bench behind Rees?
rocket66
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Outstanding post. I feel the exact same way.
I can stand on the practice tee and hit 95+% good shots. On the golf course, I am lucky if I hit 25%.
I guess football is the same for some people.
Riddickulous
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Didn't look like it Saturday.
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And that was walking into the stadium as the ordained starter. I can't imagine he'd be any better coming into the game cold off the bench.
TDHeysus
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you make really good points...I think Dayne and Rees were alot closer in competition than what was reported. Either way, Dayne didnt seperate himself from Tommy until 2 weeks before the season started, and even then I dont remember Dayne being 'on fire' or anything like that. Maybe the quick hook that Dayne got says more about BK's confidence in Tommy Rees...idk, I feel for Dayne, but excited for Tommy.
However, I totally agree with NDinLA, Tommy has 'it'. Whatever you want to call it, for me it falls in the the category of "intangibles". I saw it last year when I referred to him as 'a winner', he has one of those famous 'coaches intangibles'; he's a winner.
kmoose
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Welcome aboard, Terry.
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Who'saWildManNow
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Also, who knows if he really ever "seperated" himself at all and Kelly wasn't just going with the more comfortable pick (The guy with more athletic ability that may be able to extend a play).
When I saw Crist start throwing at the dirt and missing targets the Navy game flashed before my eyes. I knew his occasional innacuracies could not withstand a partnership of penalties, drops and fumbles.
I am genuinely excited for Tommy. This weekend holds amazing potential for his football career at ND. It is arguably the most hostile environment he will enter all season. In my opinion and I assume most of yours, it is a MUST win. He's tasked with re-instilling confidence within the huddle, picking up this offense and getting the ball in the endzone.. all night. I hope Kelly opens up the playbook to him. Don't keep this dog on a leash, let him hunt. He's going to be amped, this is HIS game.
Tommy passed all over USF and they knew he was going to do it. Give him a running game against UM and we roll!
DillonHall
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I understand what you're saying, but it's not fair to Tommy. He played a great half and earned the starting job against USF in an actual game. He should be in line to start against Michigan. And if he struggles as the starter, yeah, we'll be in trouble. But you can't think this way while determining the starter because Rees clearly outplayed Crist.
DuffHouse12
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"DISCLAIMER: I 100% think Rees gives us the best chance to win."
why does anything else matter?
who's a wild man now??? send me some love for Yankees, Isles, Knicks and Giants. need some rep points cause i'm a noob
why does anything else matter?
who's a wild man now??? send me some love for Yankees, Isles, Knicks and Giants. need some rep points cause i'm a noob
DuffHouse12
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explain to me why a losing record and a history of being a terrible quarterback means that Crist deserves a start lax? explain that to me please. is it because he's handsome? because he's muscular? because he's tall?
you said it yourself - Rees gives us the best chance to win. why not give him as much time to do that as possible? a few drives? Notre Dame Football owes Crist NOTHING. not a thing. thousands of kids have worked their tail and not seen a snap for this program. he had MORE time than is fair to prove he's the best QB on the roster. he did not. this is a non-discussion as far as i'm concerned.
you said it yourself - Rees gives us the best chance to win. why not give him as much time to do that as possible? a few drives? Notre Dame Football owes Crist NOTHING. not a thing. thousands of kids have worked their tail and not seen a snap for this program. he had MORE time than is fair to prove he's the best QB on the roster. he did not. this is a non-discussion as far as i'm concerned.
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settle down buddy... I really don't get what you're getting bent out of shape about. I just said I would personally give Crist the start. Why? Well my OP was quite clear... but here goes again.
If the coaches though Crist > Rees after months of auditioning then it's pretty crazy to think that he should be doomed based on one half of football. Everyone knows that is too small of a sample set to evaluate a QB... Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, Andrew Luck, etc. have all had really bad halves of football at one point or another in their careers.
Plus then you have the fact that it has been proven that Rees can come off the bench and play effectively. This gives you leeway to use a short leash on Crist... whereas you can't really do it the other way around naming Tommy the starter for the game. If Tommy has a bad half you're almost stuck with him for the second half because there is a limit on how much waffling you can do and maintain credibility.
----------------
On an unrelated note, LOL @ saying Crist has a "history of being a terrible quarterback." Comparing total resumes isn't even close... Dayne outplayed Tommy significantly last year. Do you remember how pathetically bad Tommy played against Tulsa and USC last year? Tommy has outplayed Crist in one half of one game. It's not like he lit the world on fire last year in his wins and then kicked his *** throughout all of camp. So let's just stop right now with sweeping generalizations and rhetoric.
Do I think Rees gives us the better chance to win? Yes, because he delivers the ball quickly and decisively with a lot of accuracy that Dayne doesn't show. At the same time, he still locks in on Michael Floyd and has shown a history of ill-advised throws leading to interceptions. It'll take a lot more than one half of a game to convince me that those flaws are corrected... in fact, they were pretty obviously not corrected against USF. So what happens if you put him out there and he throws picks on his first two drives? I don't know. What happens if Crist has a bad first two drives? You can easily yank him.
I prefer the clarity of starting Crist. If you disagree, cool. It's just my personal opinion.
Fire Charlie
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I don't even think this should be debateable, Rees is the man this Saturday night. Every single time he has been called upon, he has accepted the challenge and played not just good, but exceptionally. Even as a Freshman. I feel like he's only going to get better going forward and we have a bright future to look forward to, led by Rees as the QB from here until he is drafted into the NFL.
I agree with the posts above. Something about him just makes you feel that he is a winner and that the team plays best when he is in the game. While Rees excels when things aren't looking too good, Crist, to me, has only shown that he struggles in the tough moments. I hesitate to call him a front runner, but that's honestly what I feel like he is.
I agree with the posts above. Something about him just makes you feel that he is a winner and that the team plays best when he is in the game. While Rees excels when things aren't looking too good, Crist, to me, has only shown that he struggles in the tough moments. I hesitate to call him a front runner, but that's honestly what I feel like he is.
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DuffHouse12
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"If the coaches though Crist > Rees after months of auditioning then it's pretty crazy to think that he should be doomed based on one half of football."
nah man, cause in those MONTHS, there was no football. look at the football games.
if you think Rees has only outplayed Crist in 1/2 of a game then you and I aren't watching these games the same way.
I'm cool man - I'm also a laxer (LSM and i will prob take the ball away from you every time 1on1.... sort of kidding)
nah man, cause in those MONTHS, there was no football. look at the football games.
if you think Rees has only outplayed Crist in 1/2 of a game then you and I aren't watching these games the same way.
I'm cool man - I'm also a laxer (LSM and i will prob take the ball away from you every time 1on1.... sort of kidding)
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HereComeTheIrish
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Good post.
Rhode Irish
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What??
DuffHouse12
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Rees has a better comp % in 2010, better passer rating... 1 more pick, but ZERO losses.
H
HereComeTheIrish
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That's what this whole stupid argument of Dayne and Tommy and BK's screaming and dropping F Bombs all boils down to........
WINNING
Nothing else matters. NOTHING.
pkt77242
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I see what you are saying but I think Crist's confidence is completely shot after getting pulled last week. Everytime they showed him in camera in the 2nd half he looked like a beat dog. For better or worse now I think we have to go with Rees.
ulukinatme
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Rees is the second coming of Joe Montana!!!!!
Ok, maybe not, but he is Joe Cool in the pocket and he certainly wasn't highly touted with exceptional athleticism and skill.
Ok, maybe not, but he is Joe Cool in the pocket and he certainly wasn't highly touted with exceptional athleticism and skill.
DuffHouse12
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i'm sorry for melting down. now that Crist is on the bench you will not see such aggravation from me this season. I have tons of positivity about EVERYTHING involving Irish football.
can someone direct me to the Big Lou Nix appreciation thread??
can someone direct me to the Big Lou Nix appreciation thread??
kmoose
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I'm not so sure that Rees locks in on Floyd, as much as BK waits until the team is in trouble to put the offense on Floyd's back. It seemed, against USF, like Floyd was targeted relatively little, in the first half. In fact, looking back at the play by play, Crist threw 15 passes in the first half, only 3 of them targeted Floyd. We know that Floyd is open more than 20% of the time, even if he is drawing double coverage. After all, he's double covered when Rees in there, but Rees gets him the ball. I find it hard to believe that Crist is just "ignoring" Floyd. I think that Kelly is trying to start games by utilizing other receivers, to try to force teams to double cover other receivers, then starting to get Floyd heavily involved. I can't blame him for this. In theory, it appears to be sound logic. But the thing is; Floyd being doubled doesn't take him out of the game.
Rhode Irish
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If you're talking about the team in general, nothing else matters. But if you are evaluating two players it is unfair to pretend like there are no other factors that go into winning or losing other than who is playing quarterback.
Look, nobody denies that Tommy played better than Dayne on Saturday. To boil it down to "Tommy wins" ignores all the other factors that go into playing winning football and oversimplifies the situation.
As I've pointed out previously, if Jonas doesn't fumble and Floyd doesn't hold and Theo doesn't mishandle the punt, ND goes into the half with a comfortable lead and there is no QB change. Conversely, if Cierre had fumbled on his short TD run in the 2nd half and that fumble was returned for a TD, all of a sudden Tommy's "near-comeback" is a pretty ho-hum 30-13 drubbing and maybe people aren't so excited about Tommy.
The relative success and failure of Dayne and Tommy last Saturday were based in large part on plays made or not made by other players that the QBs had nothing to do with. Similarly, it has often been noted that the difference in their records last year can largely be attributed to the improvement of the defense for the portion of the year that Tommy started.
None of this is to say that I wouldn't start Tommy against Michigan (although I do think Lax's argument for starting Dayne makes some sense). I just think that some fans seem so infatuated with Tommy that they cannot give a fair evaluation of Dayne. And Maybe NDinL.A. is right, that the team just responds to Tommy differently and there is some ethereal quality that makes Tommy better because he makes the team better. Or something.
But I don't understand the motivation of some of you guys to be needlessly harsh in evaluating of Dayne, like you cannot simply say you prefer Tommy start but also have to trash the other kid in the process. I don't get that. The kid plays for your team. He has never done anything to disgrace the University. Not only are statements like Dayne "has a history of being a terrible quarterback" (and other such statements) ridiculously wrong football-wise, but they are totally unnecessary thing to say about a kid that plays college football for the team you root for.
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HereComeTheIrish
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Never said I disliked the kid... I said in another thread that I think that he's the superior athlete. I also said in another thread that he's not necessarily a BK recruit who fits his system. I love the kid to death and it's really tough to argue against his measurables, but somethings starting to ring in my noggin that this kid just doesn't meld within BK's offensive scheme. He's a Weis guy who was recruited for a "Pro-Set" offense... How well does he translate to the spread? It's been a struggle to this point, but I'm keeping an open mind.
Also, please don't lump me in with, "the motivation of some of you guys"....
I have no motivation here...I just want to freaking win....
Go Irish...Beat Meat-Chicken
Rhode Irish
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Sorry HCTI. That last paragraph was not intended to be directed at you. It was directed at certain posters here who know who they are. Since my post was made in response to your post (only because it was the last post; it could have just as easily been in response to Duffhouse) I should have clarified that. But it was late and I had been writing for a few minutes and I kind of lost track.
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Hahaha please son... you're entering a world of pain here. Even three years removed from DI lacrosse with a surgically repaired ankle I'll take you to the cage 10/10 times. That is unless you're actually Brian Karalunas behind that avatar
arndtjc
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Look, I said it from the beginning of camp, how can you go against a guy who takes a 4-5 team, and rattles off four straight wins to end the season? INCLUDING a win over #15 Utah, Miami in the Sun Bowl, and IMO the biggest win in my lifetime (19 years), U$C for the first time in nine years! (I was 12 when the infamous 'Bush Push' happened and I cried and cried and cried because the time had run out and Petey boy's son ran down to call a timeout when they had none left)
Anyway, this is a great thing! Tommy is going to lead this offense for the rest of the season, and there is no reason this team can't take 9 of the last 11, I wouldn't even be surprised if they win out, a longshot, but hey in the words of the great John Lennon,"You may say that I'm a dreamer. But I'm not the only one."
Anyway, this is a great thing! Tommy is going to lead this offense for the rest of the season, and there is no reason this team can't take 9 of the last 11, I wouldn't even be surprised if they win out, a longshot, but hey in the words of the great John Lennon,"You may say that I'm a dreamer. But I'm not the only one."