COVID-19

[sixstar]

You do know this was a novel virus and they were trying to develop solutions on the fly trying save lives right? It’s easy to be a Monday morning quarterback.

Did you know that humanity has never created a sterilizing vaccine for a coronavirus because they mutate too quickly?

Why would this be any different? Why were we told that it was? And why did the doctors saying that the shot couldn't stop transmission silenced and de-platformed?

 

[GoIrish41]

Did you know that humanity has never created a sterilizing vaccine for a coronavirus because they mutate too quickly?

Why would this be any different?

Humanity didn’t have a polio vaccine before Jonas Salk created one? Those scientists are always coming up with new things. Why would this be different?

 

[SeekNDestroy]

Did you know that humanity has never created a sterilizing vaccine for a coronavirus because they mutate too quickly?

Why would this be any different? Why were we told that it was? And why did the doctors saying that the shot couldn't stop transmission silenced and de-platformed?

They had reason to believe that enough people could be vaccinated to create herd immunity before the virus could mutate. However, they didn’t count on a right wing media/propaganda campaign to lie about the vaccine to it’s consumers.

 

[sixstar]

Polio is stable. Coronaviruses mutate extremely rapidly and efficiently. That's why we don't have a sterilizing vaccine for the cold or the flu, which are both respiratory coronaviruses.

Also, seek, in your best non-political terms, please explain me the scientific mechanism of achieving mucosal protection via the arm injection.

And should we go over all the lies that the media told? stops transmission, stops severe illness, stops death, no side effects, you only need 2 shots, masks prevent spread, the list goes on and on. Would you like to explore scientific mechanics and actual data with me and reconsider your incorrect assumptions?

 

[SeekNDestroy]

Polio is stable. Coronaviruses mutate extremely rapidly and efficiently. That's why we don't have a sterilizing vaccine for the cold or the flu, which are both respiratory coronaviruses.

Also, seek, in your best non-political terms, please explain me the scientific mechanism of achieving mucosal protection via the arm injection.

And should we go over all the lies that the media told? stops transmission, stops severe illness, stops death, no side effects, you only need 2 shots, masks prevent spread, the list goes on and on. Would you like to explore scientific mechanics and actual data with me and reconsider your incorrect assumptions?
[

I am not a scientist. I can’t give you the scientific mechanism. As a layman, I have to trust the experts.

I’m not making assumptions; I’m simply giving the reason that has been reported, You can do with that information what you like.

The scientists thought that enough people would take the vaccine to achieve herd immunity. They didn’t count on a media campaign causing enough people to not take the vaccine, thus no herd immunity. Non-political enough? Again, this has been reported before.

 

[GATTACA!]

If it actually prevented transmission that might be the case, but we now know the jab only reduces symptoms. As such it makes more sense for just the high risk individuals to consider it.

Symptoms such as coughing and sneezing? Hmmm it’s almost like less of that going around would lower transmissions.

 

[PerthDomer]

So what's the end game? 4 shots per year in perpetuity until you die? What does the most recent data say about the absolute risk reduction?

We'll have data relatively soon about whether the bivalent booster improves survival only transiently (antibody boost) or provides longer term benefits over the OG vaccine. Current data looks like 3 shots will likely be the primary series.

We might see a flu shot style push each fall/winter for high risk groups, or early warning systems pre surge for them.

If you're high enough risk to merit > 1 time a year shots you're likely on several meds and were getting IV's a few times a year before covid. These are very medically fragile people. So yes, there is a small population where a doc might say you should get a shot 2 or 3 times a year.

Being in the mil I could see recommending shots right before deployment/special ops mission. We had a big outbreak last summer in Germany, and large swathes of the unit I was taking care of were out of commission for a week. That could nix a mission or harm a unit's ability to fight if it happen3d at the wrong time.

 

[PerthDomer]

Polio is stable. Coronaviruses mutate extremely rapidly and efficiently. That's why we don't have a sterilizing vaccine for the cold or the flu, which are both respiratory coronaviruses.

Also, seek, in your best non-political terms, please explain me the scientific mechanism of achieving mucosal protection via the arm injection.

And should we go over all the lies that the media told? stops transmission, stops severe illness, stops death, no side effects, you only need 2 shots, masks prevent spread, the list goes on and on. Would you like to explore scientific mechanics and actual data with me and reconsider your incorrect assumptions?

There's mutation and there's mutation. You had sterilizing immunity for the alpha variant (dominant strain as the vaccine rolled out) that lasted a long time. Even with delta you had very strong protection vs. Transmission. Scientists were pretty open that we'd never eliminate it (animal reservoirs, cold chain issues in 3rd world leaving resovoirs) but before omicron we had the ability to keep transmission very very limited.

The degree of mutation we saw in Omicron surprised everyone. It's nuts. That really changed the calculus on the benefit you got from vaccinating in limiting spread.

The evolution I saw was that before delta, we had enough herd immunity to get by without mandates. Once delta hit, mandates made a lot of sense due to virulence and the ability to hit small uninfected pockets. Now with Omicron it's like other vaccines to me.

At some point it's going to be accepted as a universal vaccine and required for school/military/Healthcare, but the costs of blanket mandates aren't worth the benefits. They were with Delt.

 

[irish86]

covidvaccinedeaths.org proves how dangerous the covid vaccines are.

 

[GATTACA!]

covidvaccinedeaths.org proves how dangerous the covid vaccines are.

“Proves”

 

[TorontoGold]

“Proves”

Meets

 

[ulukinatme]

You forgot to mention that a million people died while all this was happening. Kind of a big oversight.

The road to hell is paved with good intentions. They didn't really know what it would do or could do, and they pushed lies about the jab's capabilities from the start while hiding possible side effects. Saving lives is important, but how much harm has the caused among healthy people that didn't need the jab and were pressured to get it? It should have been strongly suggested for high risk patients only, but they actively pushed it on everyone so Big Pharma could cash checks. For young healthy people that wasn't about saving lives, that was about $$$.

 

[ulukinatme]

Symptoms such as coughing and sneezing? Hmmm it’s almost like less of that going around would lower transmissions.

But it doesn't do that. It's supposed to just reduce severe symptoms to keep you out of the hospital, although that hasn't worked for everyone. It hasn't stopped coughing and sneezing.

 

[TorontoGold]

But it doesn't do that. It's supposed to just reduce severe symptoms to keep you out of the hospital, although that hasn't worked for everyone. It hasn't stopped coughing and sneezing.

https://www.publichealthontario.ca/-/media/documents/ncov/epi/covid-19-epi-confirmed-cases-post-vaccination.pdf?sc_lang=en

But it does? Anti-vaxxers get RIP bozo'd at significantly higher rates in each age group. This isn't really up for debate, and its not even close. Everything that anti-vaxxers claim to have happen from a vaccine happen at significantly higher rates from actually getting COVID.

It's not even a political thing either, it's bordering on flat earth levels of ridiculous and the ones shouting the most about it being a debate all have something to sell you, each of these websites has some sort of subscription/donation/fundraising link....consider that.

 

[sixstar]

https://www.publichealthontario.ca/-/media/documents/ncov/epi/covid-19-epi-confirmed-cases-post-vaccination.pdf?sc_lang=en

But it does? Anti-vaxxers get RIP bozo'd at significantly higher rates in each age group. This isn't really up for debate, and its not even close. Everything that anti-vaxxers claim to have happen from a vaccine happen at significantly higher rates from actually getting COVID.

It's not even a political thing either, it's bordering on flat earth levels of ridiculous and the ones shouting the most about it being a debate all have something to sell you, each of these websites has some sort of subscription/donation/fundraising link....consider that.

Where's the raw data? I've posted some raw data in this thread that you've failed to address because it counters your belief, and you post a link to data products with no access to the raw data. Why wouldn't they also post the raw data that informed their numbers? There's no chain of custody, so why would you blindly trust this data over raw numbers?

 

[TorontoGold]

Where's the raw data? I've posted some raw data in this thread that you've failed to address because it counters your belief, and you post a link to data products with no access to the raw data. Why wouldn't they also post the raw data that informed their numbers? There's no chain of custody, so why would you blindly trust this data over raw numbers?

I guess I'm willing to trust Ontario Public Health vs Robert Malone. We'll have to agree to disagree.

 

[sixstar]

You're an accountant. That's like bypassing a company audit because their CFO says the books are fine. To each their own. I just find it odd how strongly you believe things without looking at the data yourself.

oh, and in September 2019, Robert Malone said that the COVID shots had no chance of providing herd immunity or long-lasting protection because of how rapidly positively sequenced RNA mutates. He was de-platformed from LinkedIn shortly thereafter. It's odd how someone so irreputable in your mind was infinitely more correct than your politicians and govies. Ouch.

 

[ulukinatme]

https://www.publichealthontario.ca/-/media/documents/ncov/epi/covid-19-epi-confirmed-cases-post-vaccination.pdf?sc_lang=en

But it does? Anti-vaxxers get RIP bozo'd at significantly higher rates in each age group. This isn't really up for debate, and its not even close. Everything that anti-vaxxers claim to have happen from a vaccine happen at significantly higher rates from actually getting COVID.

It's not even a political thing either, it's bordering on flat earth levels of ridiculous and the ones shouting the most about it being a debate all have something to sell you, each of these websites has some sort of subscription/donation/fundraising link....consider that.

Okay? There's zero data there regarding the under 60 crowd, the deaths are so low the graph can't even show it. I already said that high risk people should strongly consider the jab, but the data shows that the young and healthy don't even need it. It's very possible it's doing more harm than good from what we're seeing as far as heart issues and other harmful side effects. That was my point, the jab was completely unnecessary and quite possibly detrimental to those in the safe category. They pushed it for money, not saving lives.

 

[TorontoGold]

You're an accountant. That's like bypassing a company audit because their CFO says the books are fine. To each their own. I just find it odd how strongly you believe things without looking at the data yourself.

oh, and in September 2019, Robert Malone said that the COVID shots had no chance of providing herd immunity or long-lasting protection because of how rapidly positively sequenced RNA mutates. He was de-platformed from LinkedIn shortly thereafter. It's odd how someone so irreputable in your mind was infinitely more correct than your politicians and govies. Ouch.

Not even remotely the same. It's like questioning the SEC review audits without actually seeing the data. There has been times when they've been wrong, but I will trust the SEC before Janet in Utah in her basement.

Okay? There's zero data there regarding the under 60 crowd, the deaths are so low the graph can't even show it. I already said that high risk people should strongly consider the jab, but the data shows that the young and healthy don't even need it. It's very possible it's doing more harm than good from what we're seeing as far as heart issues and other harmful side effects. That was my point, the jab was completely unnecessary and quite possibly detrimental to those in the safe category. They pushed it for money, not saving lives.

Did you open the link? The data for all age groups regarding hospitalizations is on page 6, unvaccinated people do much worse than vaccinated at every age group (even kids). Not sure how spending more time than their classmates in the hospital is good for their development.

What heart issues? Who is the "we"? Where is the data? Which countries around the world are halting vaccination of their citizens because if it's such a health risk there is surely some country that isn't vaccinating because of the well known heart risks. Tracking Coronavirus Vaccinations Around the World

 

[Te'o4Heisman]

You're an accountant. That's like bypassing a company audit because their CFO says the books are fine. To each their own. I just find it odd how strongly you believe things without looking at the data yourself.

oh, and in September 2019, Robert Malone said that the COVID shots had no chance of providing herd immunity or long-lasting protection because of how rapidly positively sequenced RNA mutates. He was de-platformed from LinkedIn shortly thereafter. It's odd how someone so irreputable in your mind was infinitely more correct than your politicians and govies. Ouch.

You do realize you are arguing with a contingent of society that will never in a million years just admit they were wrong, regardless of what science said 2 years ago, and what science still says today. It is the same political party that was preaching follow the science as a justification for the shots while at the same time arguing there are more than 2 genders and people aren’t scientifically either a man, or a woman. Save your breath man.

 

[ulukinatme]

Did you open the link? The data for all age groups regarding hospitalizations is on page 6, unvaccinated people do much worse than vaccinated at every age group (even kids).

Much worse, yes...between .03 and 6 people hospitalized in the under 60 brackets...per 100,000! In fact, if you're going off the data the "partially vaccinated" actually have worse numbers than the fully unvaccinated, but I'm guessing that has more to do with most of the population there having at least a few jabs. Those numbers don't even consider other possible health problems that could have contributed to their hospitalization, hence why I limited it to "Healthy young people." Dude, it's just not an issue for that bracket, it never was. I can't believe you're acting ignorant to this. If you're over 60 or have health problems, by all means take the jab. It's completely unnecessary otherwise.

 

[TorontoGold]

Much worse, yes...between .03 and 6 people hospitalized in the under 60 brackets...per 100,000! That doesn't even consider other possible health problems that could have contributed to their hospitalization, hence why I limited it to "Healthy young people." Dude, it's just not an issue for that bracket, it never was. I can't believe you're acting ignorant to this. If you're over 60 or have health problems, by all means take the jab. It's completely unnecessary otherwise.

Acting ignorant? Brother you said there was no data....now it's NBD lol.

Again - where is your support the statement that it's actually more detrimental to people? I will also ask again which country in the world is stopping vaccinations because of these dangers.

 

[GoIrish41]

Where's the raw data? I've posted some raw data in this thread that you've failed to address because it counters your belief, and you post a link to data products with no access to the raw data. Why wouldn't they also post the raw data that informed their numbers? There's no chain of custody, so why would you blindly trust this data over raw numbers?

You need a hug, bro.

 

[sixstar]

No hug needed.

It's just sad to see that people who refuse to look at data call those looking at the data conspiracy theorists, and when invited to inspect the data, they continue to refuse and call names.

Got it. In big pharma and big government you trust. Surely they all have your best in mind. No need to worry about corruption.

I'll just put my tinfoil hat back on while UK reports raw data that shows higher all cause mortality rates in vaxxed cohorts than unvaxxed cohorts. Just don't look at the graphs below.

 

[ulukinatme]

Acting ignorant? Brother you said there was no data....now it's NBD lol.

Again - where is your support the statement that it's actually more detrimental to people? I will also ask again which country in the world is stopping vaccinations because of these dangers.

Seriously, .03-6 people hospitalized out of 100,000, and the higher number is found with those that were partially or fully jabbed at one time. The odds are ridiculously small that someone under 60 will have complications, there's always a contributing factor like obesity or secondary health concerns.

There's been a number of studies done about myocarditis and other conditions they're seeing with young people taking the jab, I don't feel like I'm breaking new ground here, feel free to Google it. There's also been over a 15% increase in heart attacks in young adults since the pandemic began. Why would the government stop the jab? Politicians have long been in bed with Big Pharma. You're asking why a group of people that have made it illegal to get drugs from out of the country would stop a vaccine rollout that is generating billions for these companies. It all comes back to money. By extending the vaccine to young, healthy people that didn't need it they more than tripled their profits.

 

[ab2cmiller]

Shocking. LOL. Actually not so much.

 

[PerthDomer]

Shocking. LOL. Actually not so much.

What expertise does the DOE have in pandemic viruses? And their confidence is low level?

 

[Blazers46]

Shocking. LOL. Actually not so much.

Time heels all conspiracy theories…

 

[drayer54]

The difference between most conspiracy theories and truth is about 6-12 months.

I’m expecting the fact checks of Tom Cotton and Joe Rogan to get corrections soon. Thousands of posts unbanned. Authoritarians have some apologizing to do.

 

[Blazers46]

I’m expecting the fact checks of Tom Cotton and Joe Rogan to get corrections soon. Thousands of posts unbanned. Authoritarians have some apologizing to do.

Truth to Power…