COVID-19

ab2cmiller

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Just my personal opinion. I still believe that the vaccines are helpful to those people that are at risk.

First off the chart was just for 1 week and as Perth's linked article states required some data manipulation to a certain degree to generate. The vaccines do lose some ability to protect over time. The fact that they stopped producing the charts is problematic though.

I think it's reasonable to also assume a couple of items. The unvaxed in the older population segments probably represent the "strongest" portions of those age groups. Most have probably already gotten COVID and they were strong enough to survive. To a certain degree, the herd has been thinned in that segment as the weaker unvaxed may have already passed.

Those with weaker immune systems in that age group that chose to get vaccinated may have survived only because they were vaccinated. Now some of the weakest in that age group may eventually lose their life because of COVID. So I'm hypothesizing that the vaccinated herd has experienced less thinning to this point.

In general, we have had terrible data collecting systems in place from the start. Even when we do have decent data, that doesn't mean that it's simple to analyze. There are a ton of variables in place. Age, underlying conditions, urban vs non-urban, vaccinated vs unvaccinated, boosted, natural immunity, etc etc etc.
 

Cackalacky2.0

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Using Florida as a barometer for COVID is a bit of cherrypicking. We know that 9 out of 10 COVID deaths are from people 50 and older. Florida's average age is also 6 years higher than other states like New York. It's probably one of the highest destination states for retirement, if not the highest. Regardless they remain #3 in total deaths overall behind California and Texas respectively, which makes sense given the fact Florida is #3 in population among the states. Viruses gonna virus.
I’m pretty sure a death is a death. No matter what age. If you died from covid you died from covid.
 

Cackalacky2.0

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That graphic also shows the vaxed percentage of the population of each state and those clearly show a “trend” as well. The states with a lowere percentage of fully vaxed individuals fared worse than those with higher.
 

sixstar

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Here's Reuters saying the exact same thing as the last poster. It's deaths or hospitalizations per 100k of the population. This has come up every time they've released the report since the summer.


The data is the data. The Reuters article links to a different blog. The link I shared is raw, unmodified COVID death data from UK's own HSA. Please take time to analyze the data yourself and explain how it misrepresents reality.

The graphics I posted show both the ONS and the NIMS population estimates for full transparency. Which dataset would you choose and why?

Note that UK HSA remained adamant that the NIMS population estimates were more accurate, despite journalists like Reuters politicking for use of more... favorable... ONS population estimates.

It's not a shock to anyone that Reuters would be wholeheartedly pro-vax, so you should be careful to trust what they say instead of analyzing the raw data for yourself.

Scientific debate begins and ends with careful analysis and evaluations of hypotheses. So, let's do the analyses.

First off the chart was just for 1 week and as Perth's linked article states required some data manipulation to a certain degree to generate. The vaccines do lose some ability to protect over time. The fact that they stopped producing the charts is problematic though.

The same site publishes data dating back to the beginning of UK HSA collection, so you can see the trendlines over time. Unsurprisingly, they have consistently - without deviation - shown rapidly waning VE. I highly recommend you look at those trendlines, as the data is quite counter-narrative.

That graphic also shows the vaxed percentage of the population of each state and those clearly show a “trend” as well. The states with a lowere percentage of fully vaxed individuals fared worse than those with higher.

Cack - I'm interested in your answers for my questions. Take a look at the charts and answer the questions for me.
 

sixstar

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Well, I guess nobody wanted to answer why case, hospitalization, and death rates were as high - and higher - in vaccinated than unvaccinated. And nobody wants to discuss concern that UK HSA stopped publishing the data.

So, I'll just revisit this comment:
Why people can't just say "I don't want to take it and I accept the risks of not taking it"

People lost their jobs and their ability to go to school. Canadians couldn't leave the country. Some citizens in other countries lost the ability to go out in public and go to the supermarket.

And now, FOIA'd documents show that the White House spent $1B on the PSYOP campaign to push vaccination and mock the unvaccinated:

Per PEC (Public Education Campaign) Plan April 19 – May 31 2021:

  • Request that Tom Brady create a video with his parents encouraging vaccination
  • Create custom partnerships with the social media platforms with algorithms to hit the audience
  • Launch Hollywood comedy writers video content
  • Work with YouTube on an original special about vaccinations targeted to young people
  • Work with Instagram to produce a series about vaccines for @Instagram (the largest social media account in the world, 387 million followers)
  • Request major TikTok, Snapchat and Instagram influences to create videos of themselves being vaccinated
  • Request a vaccination special on Christian Broadcast Network featur[ing] Evangelical leaders
  • Request that the major live TV entertainment shows feature hosts being vaccinated on air (ex: the hosts of The Voice)
  • Request that the TV morning and daytime talk shows feature special vaccination reunion moments with everyday Americans
  • Convene an editorial meeting with the publishers of Catholic newspapers and newsletters across the country
  • Place a trusted messenger on the Joe Rogan Show and Barstool Sports to promote vaccination
  • Work with the NFL, NASCAR, MLB, CMA to request they create content with their talent and release through their broadcast and social channels

The HHS and CDC paid stand-up comedians to mock the unvaccinated in their comedy routines. Screen writers and production companies were also bribed to push vaccine propaganda in their episodes, and social media influencers were paid off to promote the jabs.

Simple question:
Why did the government spend $1B on the PSYOP campaign to increase vaccination if they knew that the shot wasn't sterilizing?
 

TorontoGold

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Literally no grocery store up here has ever asked for my vax status. Not sure what conspiracy theory you've been sold.

What's hilarious is that the US has/or had the same border policies regarding vax status, so it's not like it's any different up here.

If you think a strong effective vaccine and marketing that is a PSYOP there's no answer that would satisfy you. Everything is a conspiracy and there's some 7D chess being played and you're the only one that can see it. Literally conservatives/left have publicly said they received the vaccine.

There is no mask mandates, vaccine mandates, or any other hardship left. The "I'm a victim" act is so tired, let COVID run wild. I'm willing to take my chances that the vaccine works.
 

sixstar

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Literally no grocery store up here has ever asked for my vax status. Not sure what conspiracy theory you've been sold.

What's hilarious is that the US has/or had the same border policies regarding vax status, so it's not like it's any different up here.

If you think a strong effective vaccine and marketing that is a PSYOP there's no answer that would satisfy you. Everything is a conspiracy and there's some 7D chess being played and you're the only one that can see it. Literally conservatives/left have publicly said they received the vaccine.

There is no mask mandates, vaccine mandates, or any other hardship left. The "I'm a victim" act is so tired, let COVID run wild. I'm willing to take my chances that the vaccine works.

The US did not block unvaccinated from grocery stores. Several countries in Europe did, though. It was publicized everywhere. I'll let you Google it.

Remember vax passports? I was denied entry to DC restaurants as recently as January 2022 because I didn't have a vax card. I even showed the workers a negative Rapid test that I had received that same day, and they still rejected my entry because I didn't have the card. Follow the science politics.

You keep talking about a strong and effective vaccine. I am still waiting on your explanation as to why the only raw data published shows that they were - in fact - not strong or effective. Please enlighten me.

You say that PSYOPS are a conspiracy theory. I would like your explanation on the $1B media push to promote vaccination and threaten and mock unvaccinated.

You say that unvaccinated are playing the victim card. Yes, the mandates have been removed. Unvax were unable to attend concerts, go to restaurants, and participate in social activities because of the false belief that the vaccines stopped the spread. And how many people lost their jobs and their income for months while the mandates were in place? They simply tried to say - as you put it - "I don't want to take it and I accept the risks of not taking it" - and they lost their jobs because of it. So yes, unvaccinated were absolutely victims.
 
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TorontoGold

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The US did not block unvaccinated from grocery stores. Several countries in Europe did, though. It was publicized everywhere. I'll let you Google it.

Remember vax passports? I was denied entry to DC restaurants as recently as January 2022 because I didn't have a vax card. I even showed the workers a negative Rapid test that I had received that same day, and they still rejected my entry because I didn't have the card. Follow the science politics.

You keep talking about a strong and effective vaccine. I am still waiting on your explanation as to why the only raw data published shows that they were - in fact - not strong or effective. Please enlighten me.

You say that PSYOPS are a conspiracy theory. I would like your explanation on the $1B media push to promote vaccination and threaten and mock unvaccinated.

You say that unvaccinated are playing the victim card. Yes, the mandates have been removed. Unvax were unable to attend concerts, go to restaurants, and participate in social activities because of the false belief that the vaccines stopped the spread. And how many people lost their jobs and their income for months while the mandates were in place? They simply tried to say - as you put it - "I don't want to take it and I accept the risks of not taking it" - and they lost their jobs because of it. So yes, unvaccinated were absolutely victims.
Your original point was about Canada and grocery stores.

Studies you can read.

1. https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2119451
2. Measuring Vaccination Impact & Coverage
3. Vaccine effectiveness of one, two, and three doses of BNT162b2 and CoronaVac against COVID-19 in Hong Kong: a population-based observational study

Hopefully you will be "enlightened".

Because it is in the Government's best interest to not have their citizens die? Literally any form of government needs a healthy population to keep going. So, if they need to spend money marketing something so that it can keep the population healthy, then that's a worthy expense. Especially with the horsepaste truthers mounting their own campaign. Surely the anti-science crowd is doing the exposing from the goodness of their hearts and it doesn't have a profit motive at all.....https://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-trending-57928647

Unvaxxed played the FAF card, and they found out. Go try smoking in public places and see what happens. You'll be deprived of that essential restaurant experience.
 

sixstar

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Your original point was about Canada and grocery stores.

Studies you can read.

1. https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2119451
2. Measuring Vaccination Impact & Coverage
3. Vaccine effectiveness of one, two, and three doses of BNT162b2 and CoronaVac against COVID-19 in Hong Kong: a population-based observational study

Hopefully you will be "enlightened".

Because it is in the Government's best interest to not have their citizens die? Literally any form of government needs a healthy population to keep going. So, if they need to spend money marketing something so that it can keep the population healthy, then that's a worthy expense. Especially with the horsepaste truthers mounting their own campaign. Surely the anti-science crowd is doing the exposing from the goodness of their hearts and it doesn't have a profit motive at all.....https://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-trending-57928647

Unvaxxed played the FAF card, and they found out. Go try smoking in public places and see what happens. You'll be deprived of that essential restaurant experience.

Re read what I said. I will put it on separate lines so you can see three separate points.
People lost their jobs and their ability to go to school.
Canadians couldn't leave the country.
Some citizens in other countries lost the ability to go out in public and go to the supermarket.


All three of your links are poor examples.

The first study you linked claims "limited protection" and "waning protection" - how is that strong and effective? The government promised you - and especially at the time of the vax mandates - that 2 shots were considered "fully vaccinated". The first study says that two shots aren't enough. That's not strong protection, unless you are okay with committing yourself to be on a lifelong vaccine subscription plan. I have no problem with you doing that - but don't tell me that needing 5 shots in 2 years when you were promised that 2 shots would stop viral spread forever is following any science.

The second link is from BC CDC, who got caught deleting data and - just like UK HSA - stopped posting their data once the vax numbers started looking bad: More disappearing Covid vaccine data (uh oh BC CDC been misbehaving)

Do you think it is okay for Governments to hide data when the data is counter-narrative? Do you see no issues with this?

And I had to lol at the third study, honestly. The third study was written by authors who disclosed funding from AstraZeneca, Fosun Pharma, GlaxoSmithKline, Moderna, Pfizer, Roche, Sanofi Pasteur, and Sanofi. And the study was sponsored by the Chinese CDC who have been hiding COVID deaths. Reminder: studies are supposed to be as independent and unbiased as possible.


Again - why would governments create propaganda about the shots when they knew that the shots didn't stop the spread? And why did they lie and say that it did? And why did they vilify those who just wanted to ignore the shot and accept the risks?

The only reason you don't mind the unvax getting targeted is because you weren't targeted. What if the government prevented overweight people from participating in society because they choose and unhealthy lifestyle that increases pressure on the healthcare system? Is it still okay?


And finally, since you are anti-IVM, I'll ask you to look at the data. Can you explain why IVM has undergone more trials and RCTs with more people than approved medications, and showed higher efficacy than all approved medications?

Take a look: COVID-19 early treatment: real-time analysis of 2,197 studies

Ivermcectin: 62% improvement, 92 studies, 134,000 patients
Remdesivir (the approved COVID treatment): 14% improvement, 42 studies,129,000 patients
Paxlovid (approved oral treatment): 38% improvement, 17 studies, 54,000 patients
Molnupiravir (approved oral treatment): 25% improvement, 21 studies, 60,000 patients

Don't believe the data? You can click each medication, which will direct you to a page that shows every single study, where you can read each study for yourself.

Or are you committed to blindly believing that Remdesivir - with its heavy side effects - was more effective than Ivermectin, despite all of the clinical data proving otherwise? And why do you think that Pax and Molnu are superior oral treatments - based on what data?

So again - looking at the data, tell me why Ivermectin is worse than the currently approved treatments. You continue to mock people for actually following the science with ivermectin. You call them them anti-science horsepaste mouthers, when the science is - in fact - fully in IVM's corner. Analyze it and prove me wrong; I'm open minded to your feedback.
 
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TorontoGold

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Re read what I said. I will put it on separate lines so you can see three separate points.
People lost their jobs and their ability to go to school.
Canadians couldn't leave the country.
Some citizens in other countries lost the ability to go out in public and go to the supermarket.


All three of your links are poor examples.

The first study you linked claims "limited protection" and "waning protection" - how is that strong and effective? The government promised you - and especially at the time of the vax mandates - that 2 shots were considered "fully vaccinated". The first study says that two shots aren't enough. That's not strong protection, unless you are okay with committing yourself to be on a lifelong vaccine subscription plan. I have no problem with you doing that - but don't tell me that needing 5 shots in 2 years when you were promised that 2 shots would stop viral spread forever is following any science.

The second link is from BC CDC, who got caught deleting data and - just like UK HSA - stopped posting their data once the vax numbers started looking bad: More disappearing Covid vaccine data (uh oh BC CDC been misbehaving)

Do you think it is okay for Governments to hide data when the data is counter-narrative? Do you see no issues with this?

And I had to lol at the third study, honestly. The third study was written by authors who disclosed funding from AstraZeneca, Fosun Pharma, GlaxoSmithKline, Moderna, Pfizer, Roche, Sanofi Pasteur, and Sanofi. And the study was sponsored by the Chinese CDC who have been hiding COVID deaths. Reminder: studies are supposed to be as independent and unbiased as possible.


Again - why would governments create propaganda about the shots when they knew that the shots didn't stop the spread? And why did they lie and say that it did? And why did they vilify those who just wanted to ignore the shot and accept the risks?

The only reason you don't mind the unvax getting targeted is because you weren't targeted. What if the government prevented overweight people from participating in society because they choose and unhealthy lifestyle that increases pressure on the healthcare system? Is it still okay?


And finally, since you are anti-IVM, I'll ask you to look at the data. Can you explain why IVM has undergone more trials and RCTs with more people than approved medications, and showed higher efficacy than all approved medications?

Take a look: COVID-19 early treatment: real-time analysis of 2,197 studies

Ivermcectin: 62% improvement, 92 studies, 134,000 patients
Remdesivir (the approved COVID treatment): 14% improvement, 42 studies,129,000 patients
Paxlovid (approved oral treatment): 38% improvement, 17 studies, 54,000 patients
Molnupiravir (approved oral treatment): 25% improvement, 21 studies, 60,000 patients

Don't believe the data? You can click each medication, which will direct you to a page that shows every single study, where you can read each study for yourself.

Or are you committed to blindly believing that Remdesivir - with its heavy side effects - was more effective than Ivermectin, despite all of the clinical data proving otherwise? And why do you think that Pax and Molnu are superior oral treatments - based on what data?

So again - looking at the data, tell me why Ivermectin is worse than the currently approved treatments. You continue to mock people for actually following the science with ivermectin. You call them them anti-science horsepaste mouthers, when the science is - in fact - fully in IVM's corner. Analyze it and prove me wrong; I'm open minded to your feedback.
Where is this "promise"? Because I've never seen that. Your own misinterpretation is not everyone else's fault.

Here's a list of vaccines that are given to children *GASP* multiple times a year https://www.health.gov.on.ca/en/public/programs/immunization/static/immunization_tool.html

Big Ontario Government? I wish there was data on whether multiple vaccines in a year was bad for you :(, we should be seeing people in Ontario just keeling over and dying because they got multiple vaccines, right?

1 - Waning immunity has been clear from the start.
2 - You are ok the UK HSA data even though it was deleted yet, BC is untrustworthy? Consistency would be nice lol.
3 - I should have gotten a study that was done by someone in their basement so they couldn't be tied to any corporation lmao.

If overweight people were clogging up the emergency room so that surgeries got postponed, then yes I would hope the government would step in to help society. Smokers aren't allowed to smoke in hotel rooms, surely they're facing extreme prejudice and should take a stand. I can't drive my car without a seat belt, I should fight Big Honda to fight for my freedoms and rights.

Probably because taking a horse dewormer is toxic - https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc2114907#.YXCF7BhvwJs.twitter

Additionally - I'll trust Health Canada (Ivermectin not authorized to prevent or treat COVID-19; may cause serious health problems - Canada.ca) over online grifters. But go nuts, take it if you'd like - it is not a replacement at all for a vaccine. If Ivermeticin was the miracle drug, surely there would be countries that have approved it for use for COVID-19 right? The company that makes it doesn't even want you to use for COVID! Merck Statement on Ivermectin use During the COVID-19 Pandemic - Merck.com

So lets circle back here - 1) Scientists 2) Governments around the world 3) the company that makes it all don't want you to use it for COVID lmao so I guess they're all wrong and anti-vaxxers online are correct.

Anyways - none of this matters anymore because any sort of restrictions are gone and everyone can enjoy a trip to Dollar General.
 

sixstar

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Where is this "promise"? Because I've never seen that. Your own misinterpretation is not everyone else's fault.

Actually, they promised 1 dose was enough. Biden, Harris, Walensky, Bourla, and Maddow all said that the shot was a dead end to the virus - and this was before the 2nd dose. Bourla said that Pfizer's original trials were 100% effective at stopping transmission. It was posted all over MSM. Surely you remember.



The vaccine EUAs were based on prevention of transmission because there were actually more all-cause deaths in the vaccinated than unvaccinated in Pfizer trials. True - look it up. Then when vaccines showed that they weren't stopping transmission, MSM pivoted and said that the vaxxes were never meant to stop transmission - only to stop severe symptoms. However, the EUA mentions nothing about prevention of symptom severity or death reduction - it was based solely on prevention of cases. Again, this is a fact.

The doctors that said that the vaccine could never prevent transmission - like Dr. Robert Malone (who holds many of the initial mRNA patents), Dr. Peter McCollough, etc - were ridiculed and targeted in media. And continue to be this day. Even though they were correct.

Here's a list of vaccines that are given to children *GASP* multiple times a year https://www.health.gov.on.ca/en/public/programs/immunization/static/immunization_tool.html

How many of those are mRNA based? How many of those are still operating under an EUA? Oh, the mRNA shots are the only ones still under EUA.

Big Ontario Government? I wish there was data on whether multiple vaccines in a year was bad for you :(, we should be seeing people in Ontario just keeling over and dying because they got multiple vaccines, right?

Off topic. When did I say vaccines were killing people?

1 - Waning immunity has been clear from the start.

100% false. Initially 1 shot was vaccinated. 2nd shots weren't in the conversation until 5 months later. There was an uproar on whether 1 shot would STILL be considered fully vaccinated when the second shot started. Don't try to re-write history.

2 - You are ok the UK HSA data even though it was deleted yet, BC is untrustworthy? Consistency would be nice lol.

Surely you understand the difference between raw data and a data product. BC CDC never made their datasets available - they only showed data product dashboards. UK HSA is raw data.

The fact that both datasets were deleted when the numbers went south IS the only thing they have in common.

3 - I should have gotten a study that was done by someone in their basement so they couldn't be tied to any corporation lmao.

No, but you can publish independent studies without the worst example of conflicts of interest. Like, that was the worst COI I've seen in a medical study. Independent studies are exponentially more credible than studies with COI - this is fundamental stuff.

If overweight people were clogging up the emergency room so that surgeries got postponed, then yes I would hope the government would step in to help society. Smokers aren't allowed to smoke in hotel rooms, surely they're facing extreme prejudice and should take a stand. I can't drive my car without a seat belt, I should fight Big Honda to fight for my freedoms and rights.

Per the HHS data, hospitals were never overwhelmed. Another false MSM narrative. You can browse their site and see that for yourself - it's right on their website. In fact, hospital utilization remained under the previous 20 years ever since the US Government starting posting the pandemic census. The data is the data.

FBXDoalWEAcK5Z7


Did you know that Ivermectin is on WHO's List of Essential Medications for humans?
Did you know that the US requires that immigrants from certain countries take a course of Ivermectin prior to entering the US?
Did you know that Ivermectin resulted in a Nobel Prize in science for its benefit to humanity?
Did you know that Ivermectin was a human medicine first that was then repurposed for other animals?
Did you know that there are countless other human meds that are used on animals?
Did you know that Ivermectin has one of the safest profiles of any medication? Safer than Tylenol.
Again, all of these are indisputable facts.


92 studies with 134,000 patients. That isn't grifting. That's science.

The NEJM article you posted said that RCTs haven't shown IVM to be effective. That is patently false, as shown by the 92 studies.

Also, lol that Ivermectin could cause health problems. It's safer than Tylenol. Look it up and see for yourself.

And yes, overdosing on anything can be toxic. You can die from drinking too much water.

It's just sad that the health agencies outlawed access to IVM, so people started buying horse paste. Ingesting horse paste is stupid. Taking human ivermectin is not. Don't confuse the two.

it is not a replacement at all for a vaccine.

Never said it was.

If Ivermeticin was the miracle drug, surely there would be countries that have approved it for use for COVID-19 right? The company that makes it doesn't even want you to use for COVID! Merck Statement on Ivermectin use During the COVID-19 Pandemic - Merck.com

One would think. But here are some more facts.

IVM went off patent in 1996. It costs ~$3/dose in first world countries, ~$0.10/dose in third world countries. Merck makes hardly any money on this.

You should also know that, at the time that Merck made this statement, they were pursuing Phase III Government funding for an EUA for their SARS-CoV2 antiviral drug, molnupiravir. It's an early stage antiviral treatment.

Good news: Merck received $1.2B from the US Gov in June (contract #W911QY21C0031) with a ceiling of $3.7B, along with an EUA. Of course they would discredit their generic and cheap IVM when they are pursuing more than one billion dollars to develop a similar drug.

https://www.bioworld.com/articles/50...ment?v=preview
https://www.fiercepharma.com/pharma/...d-19-treatment

Ivermectin: 62% improvement, 92 studies, 134,000 patients
Molnupiravir (approved oral treatment): 25% improvement, 21 studies, 60,000 patients

Which oral antiviral is better?

Again, these are just facts.

One more fact: molnipiravir is one of the top 10 most profitable drugs of all time, and it's been out for a year. Let that sink in.

Now you know why Merck dismissed IVM.

So lets circle back here - 1) Scientists 2) Governments around the world 3) the company that makes it all don't want you to use it for COVID lmao so I guess they're all wrong and anti-vaxxers online are correct.

“The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.” - George Orwell, 1984​

 
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TorontoGold

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Actually, they promised 1 dose was enough. Biden, Harris, Walensky, Bourla, and Maddow all said that the shot was a dead end to the virus - and this was before the 2nd dose. Bourla said that Pfizer's original trials were 100% effective at stopping transmission. It was posted all over MSM. Surely you remember.



The vaccine EUAs were based on prevention of transmission because there were actually more all-cause deaths in the vaccinated than unvaccinated in Pfizer trials. True - look it up. Then when vaccines showed that they weren't stopping transmission, MSM pivoted and said that the vaxxes were never meant to stop transmission - only to stop severe symptoms. However, the EUA mentions nothing about prevention of symptom severity or death reduction - it was based solely on prevention of cases. Again, this is a fact.

Ok let's walk through this - these pieces of media you've posted are from the period in which the opinions are based on is from the December 11, 2020 EUA https://www.fda.gov/media/150386/download Which the tests showed that the Pfizer vaccine was 95% effective after dose 2 in preventing COVID-19 occurrence. So if you're only going to accept binary results (which is not something people do in the real world) then you are correct they were wrong. But with the available data at that time they were correct with the information available to them at that time. Revising positions based on results that are available through testing is what every person should expect of their healthcare providers.

The doctors that said that the vaccine could never prevent transmission - like Dr. Robert Malone (who holds many of the initial mRNA patents), Dr. Peter McCollough, etc - were ridiculed and targeted in media. And continue to be this day. Even though they were correct.
There it is - "Dr. Robert Malone" the guy who claims COVID-19 vaccines can give an AIDS like reaction. This is the man you want to hold up as an authority figure. I'm sure you can find better than him.

How many of those are mRNA based? How many of those are still operating under an EUA? Oh, the mRNA shots are the only ones still under EUA.

Off topic. When did I say vaccines were killing people?

The insuiation that taking regular vaccines is a negative thing. So if children can handle taking multiple vaccines monthly at young ages, is it not reasonable to expect adults to take regular doses annually for a vaccine?

100% false. Initially 1 shot was vaccinated. 2nd shots weren't in the conversation until 5 months later. There was an uproar on whether 1 shot would STILL be considered fully vaccinated when the second shot started. Don't try to re-write history.
This is 100% false - December 11, 2020 was the very first EUA. In that EUA "FDA’s analysis of the available efficacy data from 36,523 participants 12 years of age and older without evidence of SARS-CoV-2 infection prior to 7 days after dose 2 confirmed that the vaccine was 95% effective (95% credible interval 90.3, 97.6) in preventing COVID-19 occurring at least 7 days after the second dose (with 8 COVID-19 cases in the vaccine group compared to 162 COVID-19 cases in the placebo group)"

One of us is trying to re-write history, and it isn't me.


Surely you understand the difference between raw data and a data product. BC CDC never made their datasets available - they only showed data product dashboards. UK HSA is raw data.

The fact that both datasets were deleted when the numbers went south IS the only thing they have in common.

What's great about this is that I actually went back to the HSA report that you hold dearly, and the graph's you showed did not line up with the data in the report. So I guess, the raw data being available allows for some grifter on substack to manipulate it and include some correct items so that their subscribers can receive that dopamine hit in their confirmation bias. I should honestly start doing that.

No, but you can publish independent studies without the worst example of conflicts of interest. Like, that was the worst COI I've seen in a medical study. Independent studies are exponentially more credible than studies with COI - this is fundamental stuff.


Per the HHS data, hospitals were never overwhelmed. Another false MSM narrative. You can browse their site and see that for yourself - it's right on their website. In fact, hospital utilization remained under the previous 20 years ever since the US Government starting posting the pandemic census. The data is the data.

FBXDoalWEAcK5Z7



Did you know that Ivermectin is on WHO's List of Essential Medications for humans?
Did you know that the US requires that immigrants from certain countries take a course of Ivermectin prior to entering the US?
Did you know that Ivermectin resulted in a Nobel Prize in science for its benefit to humanity?
Did you know that Ivermectin was a human medicine first that was then repurposed for other animals?
Did you know that there are countless other human meds that are used on animals?
Did you know that Ivermectin has one of the safest profiles of any medication? Safer than Tylenol.
Again, all of these are indisputable facts.

Did you know fentanyl can be prescribed by doctors? Just because a certain drug is prescribed, does not mean that it makes it malleable to be used for other uses. If it was this miracle drug, wouldn't it be a universal drug used for COVID-19 around the world? This is critically important to debunking the myth. Wouldn't poor countries be using it? Oh that's right, it was used in poor countries and the scientific community debunked that Ivermectin against COVID-19: The unprecedented consequences in Latin America

What is the reason why? Big Media? Big Pharma? Big Government? Or it's just snake oil.

92 studies with 134,000 patients. That isn't grifting. That's science.

The NEJM article you posted said that RCTs haven't shown IVM to be effective. That is patently false, as shown by the 92 studies.

Also, lol that Ivermectin could cause health problems. It's safer than Tylenol. Look it up and see for yourself.

And yes, overdosing on anything can be toxic. You can die from drinking too much water.

It's just sad that the health agencies outlawed access to IVM, so people started buying horse paste. Ingesting horse paste is stupid. Taking human ivermectin is not. Don't confuse the two.

The studies in that website are laughable, I didn't even read them till now. But oh man, most are "reviews" done by P.Kory who like Malone is a class A grifter. Here's a summary pulled from one of the studies "Very high conflict of interest RCT with design optimized for a null result: very low risk patients, high existing immunity, post-hoc change to exclude patients more likely to benefit.". So if anyone drills down into these "studies" they'll have a good laugh. Also - summarizing all the studies together to produce a "134K patients, 62% improvement" is statistical malpractice. If you've ever conducted any academic research or study you'll know that you can not simply combine studies together as you have no control over the environments in which other studies were conducted. You are not using the same variables either. So to take the results and package them up together is comical.


Never said it was.



One would think. But here are some more facts.

IVM went off patent in 1996. It costs ~$3/dose in first world countries, ~$0.10/dose in third world countries. Merck makes hardly any money on this.

You should also know that, at the time that Merck made this statement, they were pursuing Phase III Government funding for an EUA for their SARS-CoV2 antiviral drug, molnupiravir. It's an early stage antiviral treatment.

Good news: Merck received $1.2B from the US Gov in June (contract #W911QY21C0031) with a ceiling of $3.7B, along with an EUA. Of course they would discredit their generic and cheap IVM when they are pursuing more than one billion dollars to develop a similar drug.

https://www.bioworld.com/articles/50...ment?v=preview
https://www.fiercepharma.com/pharma/...d-19-treatment

Ivermectin: 62% improvement, 92 studies, 134,000 patients
Molnupiravir (approved oral treatment): 25% improvement, 21 studies, 60,000 patients

Which oral antiviral is better?

Again, these are just facts.

One more fact: molnipiravir is one of the top 10 most profitable drugs of all time, and it's been out for a year. Let that sink in.

Now you know why Merck dismissed IVM.

I don't discount the profit motive behind Merck. However, for this theory to work the government would have to be in on the scam. Specifically with the trial being in the 3rd stage. You do not take something that far in the product development life cycle without assurances there will be profitability and funding. The "corrupt government....big pharma!" narrative also is removed as this development straddled two administrations. Additionally, Molnupiravir was being studied before IVM as far treatment for COVID-19. https://cen.acs.org/pharmaceuticals...g-antiviral-takes-aim-COVID-19/98/web/2020/05

“The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.” - George Orwell, 1984​

I am not the one asking people to discredit - non-partisan world governments, the science community, the actually developers of the drugs. You are.
 

sixstar

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Ok let's walk through this - these pieces of media you've posted are from the period in which the opinions are based on is from the December 11, 2020 EUA https://www.fda.gov/media/150386/download Which the tests showed that the Pfizer vaccine was 95% effective after dose 2 in preventing COVID-19 occurrence. So if you're only going to accept binary results (which is not something people do in the real world) then you are correct they were wrong. But with the available data at that time they were correct with the information available to them at that time. Revising positions based on results that are available through testing is what every person should expect of their healthcare providers.

So if the tests said that the vax was 95% effective, why didn't they say that? Why did they misrepresent the efficacy by calling it a dead end? We both agree that there is a difference between 100% and 95%. Wouldn't you expect the so called experts to do the same?

And why were all the experts unable to predict that a coronavirus would mutate? Are you admitting that these experts lacked that basic foundational knowledge to know that the virus would mutate? Well they were wrong; either it was gross incompetence or willful misleading. Which was it?

And why were all the doctors who said that the virus would mutate to avoid the vax silenced, deplatformed, and discredited, even though they were correct?

There it is - "Dr. Robert Malone" the guy who claims COVID-19 vaccines can give an AIDS like reaction. This is the man you want to hold up as an authority figure. I'm sure you can find better than him.

And yet he was still more correct than all the experts. Imagine that.

And I'm sure you understand that AIDS isn't always HIV. And that his claim about vax-induced AIDS is actually backed by data where case rates in vaccinated are 3-4x higher than unvaccinated per 100k, which indicates ADE, a form of AIDS.

Malone actually provided data backing his claim. MSM ignored the data and made fun of him. You know, standard process for scientific debate.

The insuiation that taking regular vaccines is a negative thing. So if children can handle taking multiple vaccines monthly at young ages, is it not reasonable to expect adults to take regular doses annually for a vaccine?

I didn't say anything about other vaccines. Traditional vaccines. Vaccines that have decades of safety data.

Answer this question for me: can you verify that the mRNA shots will not have health side effects 20 years from now? 10 years? 5 years? Any answer other than "no" is incorrect. And since the shot doesn't stop the spread, and since children aren't at significant risk from COVID, there is zero motivation to mandate these on kids like California tried to do.

This is 100% false - December 11, 2020 was the very first EUA. In that EUA "FDA’s analysis of the available efficacy data from 36,523 participants 12 years of age and older without evidence of SARS-CoV-2 infection prior to 7 days after dose 2 confirmed that the vaccine was 95% effective (95% credible interval 90.3, 97.6) in preventing COVID-19 occurring at least 7 days after the second dose (with 8 COVID-19 cases in the vaccine group compared to 162 COVID-19 cases in the placebo group)"

One of us is trying to re-write history, and it isn't me.

Yes, you are correct, and I was wrong. My apologies. I read the Pfizer press release header data without the body data. The header claimed 95% efficacy with one dose, but the body confirms that 2 doses was the intent.


'What's great about this is that I actually went back to the HSA report that you hold dearly, and the graph's you showed did not line up with the data in the report. So I guess, the raw data being available allows for some grifter on substack to manipulate it and include some correct items so that their subscribers can receive that dopamine hit in their confirmation bias. I should honestly start doing that.

Oh yeah? Show me please. I don't see a discrepancy.

Did you know fentanyl can be prescribed by doctors? Just because a certain drug is prescribed, does not mean that it makes it malleable to be used for other uses. If it was this miracle drug, wouldn't it be a universal drug used for COVID-19 around the world? This is critically important to debunking the myth. Wouldn't poor countries be using it? Oh that's right, it was used in poor countries and the scientific community debunked that Ivermectin against COVID-19: The unprecedented consequences in Latin America

What is the reason why? Big Media? Big Pharma? Big Government? Or it's just snake oil.

Off label drug use is common practice in medicine.

Why wasn't it used around the world? Prescriptions were BANNED in many places. Ask yourself: why would health agencies ban a safe, cheap, available, and potentially effective medication? What were the harms in trying it off label?

ivermectin alone can't cure COVID. It is one medication that can be used with other medications in a layered defense. So why was it outlawed? I can't answer that. Can you?

So medications are unsuitable for use in first world countries if they are used effectively in poor countries? Interesting assertion.

That link you posted is a political hit piece, not a scientific study. Scientific journals focus on unbiased data analysis. The study you linked uses loaded phrases like "bombarded by false promises", "IVM may have contributed to this terrible situation", "human intake of IVM could have a significant impact in urban sewage plants, ground water and city reservoirs" (unfounded), "political fanaticism", and "condemn its illegitimate and fabricated prescription." That's an opinion piece of one author. It does not invalidate all of the other studies showing efficacy. Especially when some of the primary concerns (small sample sizes, not RCT, etc) is common across all sorts of approved medicines.

Bottom line: if a medicine is safe, cheap, available, and could potentially have benefit, why would it be blacklisted? It's illogical.


The studies in that website are laughable, I didn't even read them till now. But oh man, most are "reviews" done by P.Kory who like Malone is a class A grifter. Here's a summary pulled from one of the studies "Very high conflict of interest RCT with design optimized for a null result: very low risk patients, high existing immunity, post-hoc change to exclude patients more likely to benefit.". So if anyone drills down into these "studies" they'll have a good laugh. Also - summarizing all the studies together to produce a "134K patients, 62% improvement" is statistical malpractice. If you've ever conducted any academic research or study you'll know that you can not simply combine studies together as you have no control over the environments in which other studies were conducted. You are not using the same variables either. So to take the results and package them up together is comical.

6.5% counts as "most of the studies"? Kory is an author in 6 of the 92 studies.

You like to call people who disagree with you "grifters." It's a bad look that smacks of intolerance. You don't want to debate; you want to confirm your bias. You discredit someone with credentials that dwarf yours with no argument other than you disagree with him.

Now, you mention very high COI RCT. Why, specifically, is it high COI? Provide evidence.

Very low risk patients. If that is the case, you must acknowledge that vaccines weren't tested on even lower risk patients. They didn't even test the shots on pregnant women. Don't move the goalposts.

High existing immunity. Explain what you mean.

Post hoc change. What change specifically? I'm not seeing it.

If you are going to throw stones, you have to be more specific.

And you are going to dismiss 92 studies from numerous authors because one study had poor boundaries? Your dismissal shows your bias. You aren't here for an open minded debate. It is illogical to dismiss 92 studies because you have very generic issues with one study.

And I'm not trying to summarize 92 studies with one percentage. I'm giving you high level information for a broad comparison. You know this. You are saying that I'm committing statistical malpractice as a deflection technique.

I don't discount the profit motive behind Merck. However, for this theory to work the government would have to be in on the scam. Specifically with the trial being in the 3rd stage. You do not take something that far in the product development life cycle without assurances there will be profitability and funding. The "corrupt government....big pharma!" narrative also is removed as this development straddled two administrations. Additionally, Molnupiravir was being studied before IVM as far treatment for COVID-19. https://cen.acs.org/pharmaceuticals...g-antiviral-takes-aim-COVID-19/98/web/2020/05

Kickbacks.

$193M in royalties paid to NIH employees over a 6-year period. NIH refuses to make the names of the employees, the amount that each received, and from whom, available to the public. And that doesn't include the money under the table. That's why.

Watch the video below all the way through. Paul makes excellent points throughout, including the need for transparency on kickbacks. Fauci's resistance to providing this information is telling.


Oh, and molnipiravir is a repurposed drug like Ivermectin? For shame!
 
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sixstar

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Not COVID, but the global authoritarian response, the erosion of freedom, the segregation of society, and the harms done to child development.

The US government's response to COVID killed my patriotism.
 

bobbyok1

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Peer Reviewed Study: Hydroxychloroquine blocks COVID from entering cells . . . Color me surprised

Dr. Peter McCollough has been yelling this from the rooftops for over 2 years. The powers that be refused to listen for there was too much profit to be made, millions of lives be damned.

Peer Reviewed study: Hydroxychloroquine blocks SARS-CoV-2 entry into the endocytic pathway in mammalian cell culture - Communications Biology

Dr. Mobeen Syed explains the mechanisms (his illustrations are extremely helpful) of how HCQ blocks SARS-COV 2 from entering the cells.
 

sixstar

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pretty obvious that it was a lab leak when WHO and others rushed to the conclusion that zoonosis was the only explanation and denounced lab leak as a conspiracy theory within weeks of the outbreak. Only cemented by the fact that WHO put Dazak on the investigation committee. The evidence of lab leak (deleted coronavirus database and files, DEFUSE proposal, deep ties from Fauci/Dazak/Barik/Wuhan) absolutely dwarfs zoonosis - which, to this day, has no evidence of crossover or wet market origin. Our government went through great lengths to try to hide the collaborative bioweapon research with China. So many lives lost to unnecessary research.
 

Bluto

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Two sure fire ways to tell someone is kinda full of shit and or a nut job.

1. They bring up the knights Templar.
2. They end their argument with a George Orwell quote.
 

yankeehater

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I think if you mandate COVID shots for young kids you're going to drive a lot of people into home schooling.
You mean those same vaccines that Pfizer admits were never tested against transmission. I thought the pitch was to get the shot if not for yourself, but to protect others. The Rachel Maddow video where she explicitly states that if you are vaxxed you cannot transmit ("you may contract the virus, but it will stop right there") has yet to be pulled down for disinformation.

 

sixstar

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Two sure fire ways to tell someone is kinda full of shit and or a nut job.

1. They bring up the knights Templar.
2. They end their argument with a George Orwell quote.

Cool, now address and dispute any one of my points with data.

One could counter that the one who mocks someone else without a factual basis is the ignorant one.
 
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