COVID-19

[Valpodoc85]

With regards to the flu shot. The human immune system has both adaptive and innate. The innate system handles 90+% of infections. Adaptive is the development of disease specific proteins such as antibodies. We get vaccinated to turn on the adaptive properties of immunity. However, any immunologic challenge, such as a vaccination with ramp up the innate system. Supercharge it in a way. So when you get the flu vaccine it ramps up the innate system and this protects you from covid. Robert Gallo, the famous virologist, suggested oral polio vaccine as a way to diminish covid early in the pandemic.

 

[BrownerandFry]

This is not a debate or moot court, but a matter of life and death.

some fiddle while kids die

https://www.mississippifreepress.or...hours-after-gov-reeves-downplays-child-cases/

For stat geeks, or Day traders, this Florida graph of the last ten days is terrifying.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/us/florida-covid-cases.html

Data matters and Delta defeats spin.

 

[BrownerandFry]

People are overreacting, if you ask me.

Nobody asked you and you are DEAD wrong.

 

[notredomer23]

This is not a debate or moot court, but a matter of life and death.

some fiddle while kids die

https://www.mississippifreepress.or...hours-after-gov-reeves-downplays-child-cases/

For stat geeks, or Day traders, this Florida graph of the last ten days is terrifying.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/us/florida-covid-cases.html

Data matters and Delta defeats spin.

Per the CDC, Florida's 7 day average is 21,615. The most up to date data has shown delta is about to start decreasing in Florida after a week-long plateau. Their effective reproduction number is 0.91 indicating it is shrinking.

All these sites that are updated via AI will continuously botch Florida's averages because they differ from how every other state does it.

 

[PerthDomer]

With regards to the flu shot. The human immune system has both adaptive and innate. The innate system handles 90+% of infections. Adaptive is the development of disease specific proteins such as antibodies. We get vaccinated to turn on the adaptive properties of immunity. However, any immunologic challenge, such as a vaccination with ramp up the innate system. Supercharge it in a way. So when you get the flu vaccine it ramps up the innate system and this protects you from covid. Robert Gallo, the famous virologist, suggested oral polio vaccine as a way to diminish covid early in the pandemic.

That would explain the couple days after getting any vaccination helping (it doesn't even with the covid vaccine. Takes weeks to help). Your innate immune system then calms down.

 

[PerthDomer]

The whole point of vaccines is to prime the adaptive immune system so that you're not relying on the innate immune system to protect you. We have an adaptive immune system because the innate one isn't great on its own.

 

[RDU Irish]

With regards to the flu shot. The human immune system has both adaptive and innate. The innate system handles 90+% of infections. Adaptive is the development of disease specific proteins such as antibodies. We get vaccinated to turn on the adaptive properties of immunity. However, any immunologic challenge, such as a vaccination with ramp up the innate system. Supercharge it in a way. So when you get the flu vaccine it ramps up the innate system and this protects you from covid. Robert Gallo, the famous virologist, suggested oral polio vaccine as a way to diminish covid early in the pandemic.

Thank you. That makes sense to me so I expect you are wrong and will be banned from the internet by sunset.

 

[RDU Irish]

The whole point of vaccines is to prime the adaptive immune system so that you're not relying on the innate immune system to protect you. We have an adaptive immune system because the innate one isn't great on its own.

Prime the pump with a flu shot and get a better covid response - which you summarily dismissed before Valpodoc put it in your language.

 

[Cackalacky2.0]

https://www.postandcourier.com/health/dhec-more-than-half-of-all-covid-patients-in-icus-in-south-carolina-are-now/article_42518790-002a-11ec-a8d1-1b5f1e96a4c3.html

As the ongoing surge of the COVID-19 pandemic continues to claim lives in South Carolina, the state health department published new numbers on Aug. 18 showing how serious the situation has become.

According to the S.C. Department of Health and Environmental Control, more than 80 percent of all intensive care unit beds in the state are filled; 63 percent of all COVID-19 patients in the ICU have had to be ventilated; and 19 percent of all coronavirus tests administered in the state are positive.
https://www.postandcourier.com/heal...cle_42518790-002a-11ec-a8d1-1b5f1e96a4c3.html

https://www.postandcourier.com/heal...cle_42518790-002a-11ec-a8d1-1b5f1e96a4c3.html

 

[IrishRazor82]

I assume people are aware hospitals routinely have ~80% of their ICU capacity occupied? Any hospital that is consistently at 70% is already out of business.

"We're running out of beds" is a scare tactic used on those who don't understand how hospitals operate. If it gets near 100%, talk to me but even then any hospital has contingency plans on site to accommodate above 100% capacity.

80% is nothing.

 

[IrishRazor82]

Pay attention to global public health, most notably the most vaccinated countries, Israel being one of them.


Israel’s sobering setback

"Israel, which has led the world in launching vaccinations and in data gathering, is confronting a surge of COVID-19 cases that officials expect to push hospitals to the brink. Nearly 60% of gravely ill patients are fully vaccinated."

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2021...t-defeat-delta

 

[IrishRazor82]

80% of ICU beds occupied is completely meeting forecast and expected each year. Any hospital operating at under 70% routinely is already out of business.

 

[Valpodoc85]

I assume people are aware hospitals routinely have ~80% of their ICU capacity occupied? Any hospital that is consistently at 70% is already out of business.

"We're running out of beds" is a scare tactic used on those who don't understand how hospitals operate. If it gets near 100%, talk to me but even then any hospital has contingency plans on site to accommodate above 100% capacity.

80% is nothing.

80% is a running average. Summer usually has lower numbers in hospitals that don’t do trauma.

 

[IrishRazor82]

80% is a running average. Summer usually has lower numbers in hospitals that don’t do trauma.

Right. For some reason this is getting deleted on this thread, and this is common knowledge to anyone who has experience working in hospital staffing... Weird.

 

[TorontoGold]

Pay attention to global public health, most notably the most vaccinated countries, Israel being one of them.


Israel’s sobering setback

"Israel, which has led the world in launching vaccinations and in data gathering, is confronting a surge of COVID-19 cases that officials expect to push hospitals to the brink. Nearly 60% of gravely ill patients are fully vaccinated."

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2021...t-defeat-delta

Alternatively, you could pay attention to a country that is way more similar - see below

[TWEET]https://twitter.com/Billius27/status/1428008095616274434[/TWEET]

and

[TWEET]https://twitter.com/Billius27/status/1428008100733366277[/TWEET]

The Israeli data suggest boosters are important. Thank for highlighting the importance of staying on top of your vaccines.

 

[BleedBlueGold]

double post. nevermind

 

[Cackalacky2.0]

80% is a running average. Summer usually has lower numbers in hospitals that don’t do trauma.

So just becasue I'm curious if 80% of ICU beds occupied is a running average for non-covid situations.... what does that mean when 80% of the ICUs are taken up mostly by COVID patients as was stated in the article and what does that mean for the patients requiring ICUs not related to COVID that would normally be admitted in any other year? The article itself wasnt opinionated or scary, just informational so there really isnt any reason to go in that direction.

I persoanlly am aware that the optimal occupancy for any ICU is 70-75% so 80% isnt alarming except that in SC its increasing daily and the 80% has a high percentage occupied by COVID patients, which IMO would take away needed beds for the normal ICU patients seen each year.

My sisters hospital in MS is over capacity exclusively by covid patients and they cant handle trauma victims at all.

 

[PerthDomer]

Just a reminder that as you approach 100% of the population vaccinated 100% of critically ill people will be vaccinated. There'll just be a lot less critically ill people.

 

[BleedBlueGold]

So just becasue I'm curious if 80% of ICU beds occupied is a running average for non-covid situations.... what does that mean when 80% of the ICUs are taken up mostly by COVID patients as was stated in the article and what does that mean for the patients requiring ICUs not related to COVID that would normally be admitted in any other year? The article itself wasnt opinionated or scary, just informational so there really isnt any reason to go in that direction.

I persoanlly am aware that the optimal occupancy for any ICU is 70-75% so 80% isnt alarming except that in SC its increasing daily and the 80% has a high percentage occupied by COVID patients, which IMO would take away needed beds for the normal ICU patients seen each year.

My sisters hospital in MS is over capacity exclusively by covid patients and they cant handle trauma victims at all.

This is the question I had as well regarding capacity. I've been under the impression that our ICU beds here are almost at capacity with covid patients and they're diverting non-covid patients because of it.

 

[Cackalacky2.0]

This is the question I had as well regarding capacity. I've been under the impression that our ICU beds here are almost at capacity with covid patients and they're diverting non-covid patients because of it.

Yes. My sisters hospital has people needing oxygen and ventilators waiting for 48 hours in the waiting room and any traumas cannot be admitted and are diverted where possible but in some instances there is no where to go. SCs hospitals are rapidly approaching that in several large metropolises and this state also large "deserts" of areas without hospitals at all.. Seems to be bigger problem than just assessing the 80% full is A-OK.

 

[RDU Irish]

Yes. My sisters hospital has people needing oxygen and ventilators waiting for 48 hours in the waiting room and any traumas cannot be admitted and are diverted where possible but in some instances there is no where to go. SCs hospitals are rapidly approaching that in several large metropolises and this state also large "deserts" of areas without hospitals at all.. Seems to be bigger problem than just assessing the 80% full is A-OK.

I love how they treat oxygen like it is plutonium or something. Oxygen and steroids while you wait should be pretty standard care at an ER supposedly overrun with Covid. Hell a $5 course of steroids for anyone testing positive would probably cut hospitalizations in half. Throw in a $12 pulse oximeter and you probably have more showing up earlier who need to and fewer showing up who don't. But lets drop $20k on some Remdisivir for someone well beyond a point of efficacy.

Once this peaks (probably is right now) will we get to go back to normal or will someone claim masks cut the curve off?

 

[Irish#1]

CBS Evening News had a clip of a married couple, both in the hospital with COVID. The kicker, was it's the second time for both of them.

 

[Cackalacky2.0]

I love how they treat oxygen like it is plutonium or something. Oxygen and steroids while you wait should be pretty standard care at an ER supposedly overrun with Covid. Hell a $5 course of steroids for anyone testing positive would probably cut hospitalizations in half. Throw in a $12 pulse oximeter and you probably have more showing up earlier who need to and fewer showing up who don't. But lets drop $20k on some Remdisivir for someone well beyond a point of efficacy.

Once this peaks (probably is right now) will we get to go back to normal or will someone claim masks cut the curve off?

Its my understanding COVID ptients DO require a special type of oxygen and its in short supply. I posted earlier that my sisters hospital ran out and cant get the type needed to keep peopl eoff ventilators. They are alos out of ventilators and people that need ventilaors typically dont live much longer. FWIW. Maybe you should go into the medical business and tell these doctors what they are doing wrong

 

[PerthDomer]

I love how they treat oxygen like it is plutonium or something. Oxygen and steroids while you wait should be pretty standard care at an ER supposedly overrun with Covid. Hell a $5 course of steroids for anyone testing positive would probably cut hospitalizations in half. Throw in a $12 pulse oximeter and you probably have more showing up earlier who need to and fewer showing up who don't. But lets drop $20k on some Remdisivir for someone well beyond a point of efficacy.

Once this peaks (probably is right now) will we get to go back to normal or will someone claim masks cut the curve off?

1. The issue with oxygen is generally transport and logistics. There is o2 availability nationally, you have to get it where it needs to go.

2. Giving roids to people without O2 requirements immunosuppress them and likely makes them sicker. Remdesivir helps early, but not late (when steroids do)

3. After this surge abates and the hospitals empty out we should unmask outside of congregate areas where vulnerable people are (hospitals, schools, etc.)

 

[BrownerandFry]

One man's approach
https://www.ketv.com/article/concer...llation-of-remaining-2021-tour-dates/37340784

 

[Valpodoc85]

So just becasue I'm curious if 80% of ICU beds occupied is a running average for non-covid situations.... what does that mean when 80% of the ICUs are taken up mostly by COVID patients as was stated in the article and what does that mean for the patients requiring ICUs not related to COVID that would normally be admitted in any other year? The article itself wasnt opinionated or scary, just informational so there really isnt any reason to go in that direction.

I persoanlly am aware that the optimal occupancy for any ICU is 70-75% so 80% isnt alarming except that in SC its increasing daily and the 80% has a high percentage occupied by COVID patients, which IMO would take away needed beds for the normal ICU patients seen each year.

My sisters hospital in MS is over capacity exclusively by covid patients and they cant handle trauma victims at all.

Good question….two answers One is the percentage is a function of staffed beds not the total number of beds in an ICU. Covid has hollowed out the nursing profession a bit. Few hospitals are currently fully staffed. That is for all nursing positions and limits thru put. When beds become tight you go on diversion and patients get routed elsewhere until you can’t. Second, when beds get tight patients that might be in the ICU under other conditions aren’t ie they get parked in the ED or on step down. Both lead to liger hospital stays and less than ideal outcomes

 

[NDdomer2]

Good question….two answers One is the percentage is a function of staffed beds not the total number of beds in an ICU. Covid has hollowed out the nursing profession a bit. Few hospitals are currently fully staffed. That is for all nursing positions and limits thru put. When beds become tight you go on diversion and patients get routed elsewhere until you can’t. Second, when beds get tight patients that might be in the ICU under other conditions aren’t ie they get parked in the ED or on step down. Both lead to liger hospital stays and less than ideal outcomes

Some hospitals have ability to convert other space into icu as well.

 

[Valpodoc85]

Yep, usually the problem isn’t space it is availability of icu trained nurses.

 

[IrishEyes1900]

"Dr. Mark Kline, physician-in-chief of Children's Hospital New Orleans, said he is alarmed at the number of critically ill children, including infants and toddlers, in his care who are struggling with COVID-19. He said children have become the "collateral damage" of adults who are refusing to wear masks or get vaccinated."

https://abcnews.go.com/Health/kids-sick-covid-delta/story?id=79479229

I read something in another forum related to this. That most people alive today didn't have to live in a time when diseases like polio and small pox where very common. And that it was vaccines which eradicated these diseases. That's why many today don't believe in vaccines.

 

[Cackalacky2.0]

First day back at school for my kid yesterday and I got a email this morning telling me there is a positive COVID case in one of his classmates.