COVID-19

[RDU Irish]

"struggling to make ends meet" and losing everything you worked for your entire life are very different things. Assuming this "aid" will be in time or adequate is typical enlightened elitist tripe. Glad your firm of lawyers expects to navigate the red tape to get some free money just in case your work load is affected. I've been buying food from restaurants to try and help them survive - in real time. Frozen crablegs last week were great - guy was super happy to unload those. Overpaid for fresh ground beef and chicken too. Haven't thought yet about an angle on some free gubmint cheese for myself. Maybe if I didn't care about my friends, family and clients I could be more calloused about forcing financial ruin on some folks. Never seen anyone get suicidal over that - but you think millions of seniors will die so we must all take that as gospel and hide in fear.

 

[Irish YJ]

After numerous Congressional hearings and the support and urging of the President (W.) at the time as well as input from his HHS and medical and security personnel within his Admin (including Dr Fauci and quite a number of others):

The National Strategy for Pandemic Response Influenza Act was passed in 2005 with an Implementation Plan. (Full Version)

This is the blueprint for any pandemic and has been utilized in other pandemics on a national and state level. As you can imagine, the Congress and Bush put this together as a major priority for something like COVID-19. States have gotten funding for the implementation of pandemics and disaster response systems. The Act details the pandemic threats to America, potential impact on the health and economy, federal responses, alignment with international goals in their International Partnership on Pandemics, federal obligations in response to a pandemic, vaccine research and supply and roles of the states within that national strategy. See Chapter 2&3 for U.S. Government response and interactions and responsibilities in working with states.

The CDC on their website details their "pivotal role" in ensuring "state and local public health systems" preparedness.
Excerpt:


Further, the Government Accounting Office (GAO) after the 2009 Influenza Pandemic reviewed it in Lessons from the H1N1 Pandemic Should Be Incorporated into Future Planning:
Excerpt from "Highlights":


The purpose of the GAO review was to review the response by government agencies as well to recommend changes that would lessen the economic impact to our country. The GAO will undoubtedly review the federal response to the COVID-19 pandemic, which may include whether the structure of the National Strategy for Pandemic Response Influenza Act for pandemics was eroded with subsequent impacts on our health and economy. The Act is similar to those in many other countries, including Australia's which I linked before.

Let's hope that this is a lesson learned or
As George Santayana is attributed to saying: "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."

Not really sure what you point is. My original points are still the same. We don't have anything close to the processes or infrastructure that SK has. We also have deltas between states in terms of preparedness, with no clear cut rules of responsibilities.

Didn't have to read too much into the 2005 plan you posted to find this nugget.

The center of gravity of the pandemic response, however, will be in communities. The distributed nature of a pandemic, as well as the sheer burden of disease across the Nation over a period of months or longer, means that the Federal Government’s support to any particular State, Tribal Nation, or community will be limited in comparison to the aid it mobilizes for disasters such as earthquakes or hurricanes, which strike a more confined geographic area over a shorter period of time. Local communities will have to address the medical and non-medical effects of the pandemic with available resources. This means that it is essential for communities, tribes, States, and regions to have plans in place to support the full spectrum of their needs over the course of weeks or months, and for the Federal Government to provide clear guidance on the manner in which these needs can be met.

Reading other portions of this also lead me to believe that what we are seeing now dwarfs a lot of the assumptions made in 2005.

 

[Bluto]

Some of you guys know I like tracking which states Americans are moving to and which states Americans are leaving. I have a feeling covid19 will have people fleeing major cities like LA and NY in the next 1-2 years. A very high percentage of those cities' populations are also renters, which could make it easier to get out.

Thoughts?

Might actually be a net positive in that a bunch of spec/investment housing might become available for purchase and or rents (which are insane) might decline.

 

[Irish#1]

Might actually be a net positive in that a bunch of spec/investment housing might become available for purchase and or rents (which are insane) might decline.

Every cloud has its silver lining!

 

[Irish YJ]

I’m with you on this. The issue isn’t only Covid, it’s the strain it is putting on the system on top of all of the usual medical emergencies that is causing huge issues. We have been given directives that are totally unique from typical protocol. People that would typically be given better chances at survival are unable to be given the attention due to lack of resources and the hospitals inability to accommodate.

I've mentioned the same thing a couple times.

This particular impact is not even considered by the-cure-is-worse chirpers.

 

[Sea Turtle]

Their approach will obviously be worse upfront - question is if it will be balanced by shorter duration and less long term effects. Logically, with fewer infirm 95 year olds in the population your going forward daily deaths may decline. Non-PC theory but just as valid as assuming 4 million Americans will die if we do nothing.

I thought the Netherlands were the only one taking that approach. And they seem to be doing a lot better than most of Europe. Italy, Spain , France and Germany and UK are getting pummelled.

 

[Sea Turtle]

I've mentioned the same thing a couple times.

This particular impact is not even considered by the-cure-is-worse chirpers.

Everything is being considered. Hospitals are important. So is avoiding a ten year depression. Ben Stein thinks we are on our way to a depression now already.

 

[RDU Irish]

https://www.statista.com/statistics/241488/population-of-the-us-by-sex-and-age/

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/products/databriefs/db355.htm

US Population vs annual mortality
6.5M age 85+ @ 13.5% = 877k deaths annually
16.2M age 75-84 @ 4.4% = 713k deaths annually
30.4M Age 65-74 @ 1.8% = 547k deaths annually

Over 2.1M people out of the 2.8M in the US who die annually are over 65 (75%). Whereas 53M of the 340M population is over 65 (16%). COVID would pretty much need to infect just about all seniors to reach your MILLIONS DEAD stretch goal. https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/coronavirus-age-sex-demographics/

Am I an awful ghoul for pointing out the older you get the more likely you are to die and a majority of the dead people every year are old?

 

[RDU Irish]

I've mentioned the same thing a couple times.

This particular impact is not even considered by the-cure-is-worse chirpers.

As with most things in life, I believe moderation is key.

 

[RDU Irish]

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/03/dont-even-think-about-leaving-new-york-city/608884/

Sheesh - wife is a physician and lives in a 900 sf apartment with a dog and two kids? Scared but so noble to stay in NYC and take one for the collective team! Where is Buster when you need him to tell us of how we should all live like that.

 

[Irish YJ]

Everything is being considered. Hospitals are important. So is avoiding a ten year depression. Ben Stein thinks we are on our way to a depression now already.

I have yet to hear the those criticizing the shutdown to talk in detail (stats, projections) about the impact of crashing hospitals, casualties (not just covid) that would occur because of those crashes, and the downstream implications. We're already going to end up with cities piling bodies in trailers, and it would be exponentially worse if we weren't playing the curve game right now. Imagine thousands of trailers full, mass graves, people can't go to hospitals for non-covid related emergencies (or even non emergencies like births), a % of your family and neighbors gone... It's not to hard to imagine.

 

[MJ12666]

I’m with you on this. The issue isn’t only Covid, it’s the strain it is putting on the system on top of all of the usual medical emergencies that is causing huge issues. We have been given directives that are totally unique from typical protocol. People that would typically be given better chances at survival are unable to be given the attention due to lack of resources and the hospitals inability to accommodate.

Question, assuming this is true, do you know why only 20 patients been transferred to the U.S.N.S. Comfort? It reportedly has room for 1,000.

 

[yankeehater]

[/B]

Question, assuming this is true, do you know why only 20 patients been transferred to the U.S.N.S. Comfort? It reportedly has room for 1,000.

I saw a report on this last night. The U.S.N.S. Comfort is for non-Covid overflow patients. Until a hospital reaches overflow capacity, there is no reason to transfer a patient to the Comfort.

 

[Irish YJ]

[/B]

Question, assuming this is true, do you know why only 20 patients been transferred to the U.S.N.S. Comfort? It reportedly has room for 1,000.

Not speaking for FDNY, but as I understood it, patients are referred to the ship by shore-based hospitals and must be screened and tested for the virus before being admitted to the ship. One could guess that either 1) hospitals aren't to breaking points, or 2) local and state gov is simply not getting off their asses.

Guessing CNN's headline (Navy hospital ship deployed to NYC with 1,000 bed capacity is only treating 20 patients) is probably an attempt to minimize Trump getting credit for getting it there, instead of leading with something like "Why aren't De Blasio and Cuomo utilizing Federal help".

 

[yankeehater]

I know there has been discussion about loss of life versus financial loss. What is the tipping point for a society? I.E. we have flu deaths annually, but don't close businesses or communities down. I am beginning to hear of the mental toll and not just for people on the front line. A buddies daughter here in South OC just had a high school friend commit suicide. It was a male athlete from a prominent high school who as many during this quarantine was experiencing anxiety, depression, etc. We have another friend whose high school age son was just recommended going on medications for similar symptoms. How many people are experiencing heart ailments because of the stress associated with Covid both health and financial.? It is almost impossible to get away from the running body count on every station like we are keeping score at a basketball game.

Sorry for the rambling, but I guess my question is how do you know when you are doing more harm than the virus is to a society?

 

[MJ12666]

I saw a report on this last night. The U.S.N.S. Comfort is for non-Covid overflow patients. Until a hospital reaches overflow capacity, there is no reason to transfer a patient to the Comfort.

Thanks and this may be so but I am watching the local news in the NY-Metro area and all they seem to be reporting is how the hospitals are overflowing capacity. Now maybe it is because of the testing as Irish YJ noted in his post but I have not heard this being the reason in any reports. I was hoping FDNYirish1 could provide some insight.

 

[yankeehater]

Thanks and this may be so but I am watching the local news in the NY-Metro area and all they seem to be reporting is how the hospitals are overflowing capacity. Now maybe it is because of the testing as Irish YJ noted in his post but I have not heard this being the reason in any reports. I was hoping FDNYirish1 could provide some insight.

They may have more patients who test positive for Covid than they can handle, but those patients would not be sent to the Comfort only non-Covid. From what I am reading, most people are avoiding hospitals unless it is life or death. My wife has a coworker who tore their ACL and hamstring and has had the surgeries postponed for over a month now.

 

[yankeehater]

Also the story I saw the reporter asked why the ship is not used for Covid patients. The answer was those ships are set up for catastrophic wartime injury scenarios and not isolation/quarantine treatment.

 

[MJ12666]

They may have more patients who test positive for Covid than they can handle, but those patients would not be sent to the Comfort only non-Covid. From what I am reading, most people are avoiding hospitals unless it is life or death. My wife has a coworker who tore their ACL and hamstring and has had the surgeries postponed for over a month now.

Yes I understand in general the situation. What I would like to know, preferably from someone with direct knowledge, is why non-Covid patients are not being transferred to the Comfort. The Comfort was sent to NY specifically for this purpose but according to reports that I have seen, is that only 20 patients have been transferred there, leaving 980 beds empty and unused.

 

[FDNYIrish1]

Thanks and this may be so but I am watching the local news in the NY-Metro area and all they seem to be reporting is how the hospitals are overflowing capacity. Now maybe it is because of the testing as Irish YJ noted in his post but I have not heard this being the reason in any reports. I was hoping FDNYirish1 could provide some insight.

I do not transport patients so I haven’t been at the hospitals, but if I were to venture a guess it would be that there is no one to transport from the hospitals to the Comfort. I really cannot speak for the Hospitals, as I can the EMS and Fire side of the equation. EMS resources are running around 7000 calls a day with 25% of the workforce out. So adding extra units to handle call volume is out. I know there are supposedly volunteer units that arrived in the city but I’ve yet to come across them. They are attempting many options to help ease the burden. I’m not trying to sound any alarms guys, so please don’t misinterpret my posts. I’m just trying to give you an idea what it’s like on the streets. I don’t really watch the news so I’m not sure how they are reporting numbers and such. Just know that the N95s are in short supply at the moment and it is not an ideal time to need medical attention in the field.

 

[MJ12666]

I do not transport patients so I haven’t been at the hospitals, but if I were to venture a guess it would be that there is no one to transport from the hospitals to the Comfort. I really cannot speak for the Hospitals, as I can the EMS and Fire side of the equation. EMS resources are running around 7000 calls a day with 25% of the workforce out. So adding extra units to handle call volume is out. I know there are supposedly volunteer units that arrived in the city but I’ve yet to come across them. They are attempting many options to help ease the burden. I’m not trying to sound any alarms guys, so please don’t misinterpret my posts. I’m just trying to give you an idea what it’s like on the streets. I don’t really watch the news so I’m not sure how they are reporting numbers and such. Just know that the N95s are in short supply at the moment and it is not an ideal time to need medical attention in the field.

Thanks. Stay safe (as best you can) and thanks for your service.

 

[Sea Turtle]

I have yet to hear the those criticizing the shutdown to talk in detail (stats, projections) about the impact of crashing hospitals, casualties (not just covid) that would occur because of those crashes, and the downstream implications. We're already going to end up with cities piling bodies in trailers, and it would be exponentially worse if we weren't playing the curve game right now. Imagine thousands of trailers full, mass graves, people can't go to hospitals for non-covid related emergencies (or even non emergencies like births), a % of your family and neighbors gone... It's not to hard to imagine.

This seems to be a New York/New Jersey crisis so far. Tennessee has had 37 deaths from this. If the hospital situation is so dire on the eastern seaboard then Quarantine it, nobody in or out. And have the military set up temporary mash units outside those cities.

It seems better than running the entire country into the iceberg.

Also, are we doing this again next year when this or something like swine flu comes back?

 

[Sea Turtle]

Herd immunity

https://youtu.be/ozmh40wwAGc

 

[loomis41973]

This seems to be a New York/New Jersey crisis so far. Tennessee has had 37 deaths from this. If the hospital situation is so dire on the eastern seaboard then Quarantine it, nobody in or out. And have the military set up temporary mash units outside those cities.

It seems better than running the entire country into the iceberg.

Also, are we doing this again next year when this or something like swine flu comes back?

Props my man. Lets get as many as possible back to work and NOW

 

[Circa]

What in god's name are you talking about? Do you even know the mechanism of how a drug gets approved, or did you just throw some random words and terms together?



This



Where's BGIF, or whoever, complaining about politics in this thread?

No, I just listen to podcasts that have people that are semi-regular average everyday Joe's to give information that isn't blinded by the media. (99% of them also have written some books to follow up their personality), They are people that aren't going to make money off of information deniability.


Drugs get approved and CHINA makes them. It should make everyone sick to at least their stomachs.
Don't try telling me pharmaceutical companies don't use the American people to fund research and then make billions off of our taxpayer money.

 

[Circa]

This Podcast has real relevence because It touches on what we are experiencing. I recommend everyone to watch/listen.
The dime he dropped was a fact, "why tax the rich when the rich don't ever pay taxes". It's humbling to actually know something instead of just floating an opinion bc mommy/daddy taught us different.


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[Circa]

The Chinaman is not the issue here dude.

Maybe this isn't the thread, time, place but I do have a podcast that everyone should listen to. It's alarming, and under our current condition, appealing.

The NBA Is also talked about in detail.

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[InKellyWeTrust]

I hear what many if you are saying about certain areas of the country having "too flat of a curve". If you flatten the curve you prolonged the economic impact significantly.
This has many layered implications. First, we cant have the entire country spike at the same time because of limited resources. You cant supply everywhere in the country everything they need to care for patients simultaneously. You would think this is part of somebody's master plan or at least it should be now that we are seeing various trajectories depending on state/area. Second, you may see some secondary moves by some states with very flat curves in order to get people back to work and to allow the trickle to turn into a small stream. The IgG/IgM testing could play a critical role here. Third, as areas such as New York, New Jersey, etc start coming down on the back end they will inevitably loosen the reigns on restrictions too. This all comes together as a tiered approach to getting back to normal life. Then local aggresive PCR testing (acute illness testing) and regional outbreak control take center stage until we have a full scale vaccine to take care of the problem for good. Then all the anti-vaxxers can be silenced for at least a year.

 

[InKellyWeTrust]

Also, I am very interested to see how Sweden progresses through this. Maybe they have it figured out but I'm skeptical. Population density certainly has a large effect on transmissible diseases in general. It is certainly possible measures New York is taking doesn't translate well to middle America.

 

[Circa]

I hear what many if you are saying about certain areas of the country having "too flat of a curve". If you flatten the curve you prolonged the economic impact significantly.
This has many layered implications. First, we cant have the entire country spike at the same time because of limited resources. You cant supply everywhere in the country everything they need to care for patients simultaneously. You would think this is part of somebody's master plan or at least it should be now that we are seeing various trajectories depending on state/area. Second, you may see some secondary moves by some states with very flat curves in order to get people back to work and to allow the trickle to turn into a small stream. The IgG/IgM testing could play a critical role here. Third, as areas such as New York, New Jersey, etc start coming down on the back end they will inevitably loosen the reigns on restrictions too. This all comes together as a tiered approach to getting back to normal life. Then local aggresive PCR testing (acute illness testing) and regional outbreak control take center stage until we have a full scale vaccine to take care of the problem for good. Then all the anti-vaxxers can be silenced for at least a year.

Don't ya know, China and Russia are the majority of the anti-Xax community that our social media portrays?