COUNTDOWN TO NSD!!!

[irish1958]

OK - no more tongue biting for me.

Notre Dame ran Weis out of here with extreme prejudice. Yet here we are with a new coach, same problems. it make me think that the coach wasnt the problem(I thought that back then as well). simple troubleshooting suggests that once you change a part that is bad, and the problem persist, then the part changed wasnt the problem. its just that ppl hated weis on a pesonal level and still do this day. he's had success before and after Notre Dame. (ppl hate that too)

Weis had success as an offensive coordinator in the NFL with perhaps the best head coach and quarterback in the league and with a team that was disciplined for stealing the opponents defensive signals, never as a head coach.
Notre Dame has a problem in recruiting: no Jucos to fill in holes, no players can be bailed out of jail to play on the morning of a game, players expected to go to class AND graduate in FOUR years, almost never can a transfer play at ND, etc.
It took Jim Harbaugh five years to get a good to great team; it will probably take Kelly that long.

 

[TDHeysus]

Weis had success as an offensive coordinator in the NFL with perhaps the best head coach and quarterback in the league and with a team that was disciplined for stealing the opponents defensive signals, never as a head coach.
Notre Dame has a problem in recruiting: no Jucos to fill in holes, no players can be bailed out of jail to play on the morning of a game, players expected to go to class AND graduate in FOUR years, almost never can a transfer play at ND, etc.
It took Jim Harbaugh five years to get a good to great team; it will probably take Kelly that long.

ND has to wait for 5 years for a winner? is that what you are saying? If Kelly has to get 'his guys' in here then it will be in that 5th year that he will have all 'his guys'. Just like Weis' 5th, once we loaded up with 'Weis guys', ND fired Weis and now we get to load up on Kelly guys and wait for another 5 years.

 

[DirtySecret]

ND has to wait for 5 years for a winner? is that what you are saying? If Kelly has to get 'his guys' in here then it will be in that 5th year that he will have all 'his guys'. Just like Weis' 5th, once we loaded up with 'Weis guys', ND fired Weis and now we get to load up on Kelly guys and wait for another 5 years.

He has a point.. Can't hate him for that..

 

[irishtrain]

I'm honestly beginning to be surprised why kids still feel like signing with our program?
I for the first time am really feeling down.
We havn't really put a good product on the field in about 17 years....since then there has been nothing but mediocrity.Coach to coach,nothing really has changed.
Now, I still have hope in Kelly.I really do. I hope he can turn things around.
But today, it looked like Weis was on the sidelines. He had no idea what he was doing.
What happened to "preparing all year for this offense"?
This team had no heart because a couple of our best players were out?That's sad.

I am a Notre Dame fan to my core.I love them with everything that I am.
But I am just so incredibly sick of mediocrity. There is absolutely NO reason we should get pummeled the way we were today by that kind of inferior opponent.

I'm sorry for this rant, I just had to get it out of my system.
Let's go kick Tulsa's ***! (It's sad when I have to laugh at that)

I believe they are going to have to do it for a couple of years on 2/3 star guys who overachieve, right now its going to take a special young man who wants to take on this responsibility.

 

[phork]

OK - no more tongue biting for me.

Notre Dame ran Weis out of here with extreme prejudice. Yet here we are with a new coach, same problems. it make me think that the coach wasnt the problem(I thought that back then as well). simple troubleshooting suggests that once you change a part that is bad, and the problem persist, then the part changed wasnt the problem. its just that ppl hated weis on a pesonal level and still do this day. he's had success before and after Notre Dame. (ppl hate that too)

Points already stated. He has Offensive coordinator experience. His offense was awesome, we were unstoppable.. Much like RichRod, the defense will get you fired. Because whats the point in 40 points per game when your opponent scores 41. Weis got canned because he didn't have total control of the team. 2 headed D-Coordinators, they were both bad, doesn't cut it. The talent was recruited for an offensive juggernaut and the defense hurt badly for it.

ND has to wait for 5 years for a winner? is that what you are saying? If Kelly has to get 'his guys' in here then it will be in that 5th year that he will have all 'his guys'. Just like Weis' 5th, once we loaded up with 'Weis guys', ND fired Weis and now we get to load up on Kelly guys and wait for another 5 years.

ND should expect a winner starting next year. Unlike RichRod, Kelly molds his system to the players he has, and he generally puts the best players on the field. So either Weis was a poor talent evaluator and these kids just aren't up to 5* or 4* status or they just don't like Kelly's system. Kelly in most of his stops was using the previous regimes talent. This was one of the knocks on him. If you expected anything more than whats happened this year, then shame on you. New offense and defense and a new general running that offense. If all the hype about Kelly is true, next year will be the telling sign. Crist will have 12 or 13 games under his belt and 2 off seasons to get it together, unless of course one of the other QBs starts pushing him for play time.

 

[mrmiller8]

ND has to wait for 5 years for a winner? is that what you are saying? If Kelly has to get 'his guys' in here then it will be in that 5th year that he will have all 'his guys'. Just like Weis' 5th, once we loaded up with 'Weis guys', ND fired Weis and now we get to load up on Kelly guys and wait for another 5 years.

Yeah thats generally when you can tell if a guy is gonna be "the guy." Rome wasn't built in a day....

 

[irish1958]

ND has to wait for 5 years for a winner? is that what you are saying? If Kelly has to get 'his guys' in here then it will be in that 5th year that he will have all 'his guys'. Just like Weis' 5th, once we loaded up with 'Weis guys', ND fired Weis and now we get to load up on Kelly guys and wait for another 5 years.

I didn't say we had to wait five years for a good or great team, but noted that Stanford (which is somewhat similar to ND) took this long to get it together. We may perhaps have to wait that long. Weis' forth and fifth years were worse with his all players, not better than the first three. Stanford is better in Harbaugh's fifth year, and was better last year in his forth year than in the third year. This is progress, which we didn't have under Weis.
Weis either couldn't recruit or he couldn't develop talent (or perhaps both).
In the NFL you don't recruit or develop talent (except perhaps at QB) you use what you have and trade or draft to improve.
Weis didn't have a clue on how to be a head college coach and neither did Gerry Faust. I admire and respect both men, but both should have resigned after their fifth year and admitted that they couldn't do the job and not forced the University to fire them. Weis was (is) a very good NFL offensive coordinator and Faust was an exceptional to great high school coach.
The Peter principle really is true.

 

[ndcoltsfan2010]

I didn't say we had to wait five years for a good or great team, but noted that Stanford (which is somewhat similar to ND) took this long to get it together. We may perhaps have to wait that long. Weis' forth and fifth years were worse with his all players, not better than the first three. Stanford is better in Harbaugh's fifth year, and was better last year in his forth year than in the third year. This is progress, which we didn't have under Weis.
Weis either couldn't recruit or he couldn't develop talent (or perhaps both).
In the NFL you don't recruit or develop talent (except perhaps at QB) you use what you have and trade or draft to improve.
Weis didn't have a clue on how to be a head college coach and neither did Gerry Faust. I admire and respect both men, but both should have resigned after their fifth year and admitted that they couldn't do the job and not forced the University to fire them. Weis was (is) a very good NFL offensive coordinator and Faust was an exceptional to great high school coach.
The Peter principle really is true.

You really bring up a good point about Stanford. Their are some parallels to both schools. It's not an SEC school. It takes time to build a program when you are starting from scratch and that is what Harbaugh has done out in Palo Alto. As hard as it is, we might have to wait another few years before we are among the elite again. I think Weiss could recruit his butt off because he was widely known to have NFL ties with an outstanding offense when he was with the Patriots. Unfortunately he was ineffective as a head coach and just could not develop the players the right way at the collegiate level. Weiss would have been an awesome recruiter and OC but not a college HC especially at ND. I don't know if BK is the answer to turning this program around or not, but I know it will take alot more time for ANYONE to get this ship righted than anyone wants to care to admit. I want to win now.., I want BCS games and a NC in the next couple of years, but I don't think that is realistic until we change the philosphy of this program. We are so used to losing these past few years and we have been in a big funk for some time. Breaking through that barrier is going to take some time and it will take a year or two for BK's system to get to full swing. As for recruiting, BK has done a splendid job in getting some really good players on both sides of the ball. You have to recruit both offensively and defensively and I see this class being a good start to a well balanced recruiting class. Now once we get these kids to ND it will be about developing these players and having them fit into BK's system. Bottom line is this is not an overnight process where we can expect immediate results. It has been painful for all of us fans, because we are passionate about our team and we just want to return to the days of glory. I hope we will get it done with BK.

 

[CanadianIrish]

I'm certainly going to give Kelly some time here, he is trying to switch from a pro style offense to a spread and he simply doesn't have the players to do so. My concern is that real development will have to wait until after Dayne is finished, or makes massive progress in the spread (which he simply may not be able to make).

Defensively, Kelly is never going to be a top tier coach. Cinci won shootouts, and we should get used to that as the new norm. We need more talent in the secondary badly, and recruiting this year is not going well with safety at the moment, but Kelly has done fine with bad defenses before.

 

[IrishLax]

I'm certainly going to give Kelly some time here, he is trying to switch from a pro style offense to a spread and he simply doesn't have the players to do so. My concern is that real development will have to wait until after Dayne is finished, or makes massive progress in the spread (which he simply may not be able to make).

Defensively, Kelly is never going to be a top tier coach. Cinci won shootouts, and we should get used to that as the new norm. We need more talent in the secondary badly, and recruiting this year is not going well with safety at the moment, but Kelly has done fine with bad defenses before.

Don't make blanket statements based on one game in his first year. I'm pretty sure Cinci was actually somewhere around a top 15 defense last year with 10 new starters on defense.

Just saying... give him at least a recruiting class and another year before you make claims like that.

 

[phgreek]

You really bring up a good point about Stanford. Their are some parallels to both schools. It's not an SEC school. It takes time to build a program when you are starting from scratch and that is what Harbaugh has done out in Palo Alto. As hard as it is, we might have to wait another few years before we are among the elite again. I think Weiss could recruit his butt off because he was widely known to have NFL ties with an outstanding offense when he was with the Patriots. Unfortunately he was ineffective as a head coach and just could not develop the players the right way at the collegiate level. Weiss would have been an awesome recruiter and OC but not a college HC especially at ND. I don't know if BK is the answer to turning this program around or not, but I know it will take alot more time for ANYONE to get this ship righted than anyone wants to care to admit. I want to win now.., I want BCS games and a NC in the next couple of years, but I don't think that is realistic until we change the philosphy of this program. We are so used to losing these past few years and we have been in a big funk for some time. Breaking through that barrier is going to take some time and it will take a year or two for BK's system to get to full swing. As for recruiting, BK has done a splendid job in getting some really good players on both sides of the ball. You have to recruit both offensively and defensively and I see this class being a good start to a well balanced recruiting class. Now once we get these kids to ND it will be about developing these players and having them fit into BK's system. Bottom line is this is not an overnight process where we can expect immediate results. It has been painful for all of us fans, because we are passionate about our team and we just want to return to the days of glory. I hope we will get it done with BK.

I agree with most of this...the funk part has a monsterously critical component...one that Harbaugh pulled off...you need to beat a top 10 team early in the process...everyone was waiting for Charlie to get a signature win...not as a measuring stick for Charlie, but as a a figurative planting of the flag...see, no matter how charismatic, no matter how brilliant, no matter how good a scheme...if you, as a coach do not find a way to knock off someone noteworthy early...your job is harder...and you may never be around long enough to turn the ship...Why? Player buy-in. The best I can provide is an analogy or two...without the win, teaching these kids is really like teaching passive learners...especially given the past of these juniors seniors...they listen and try, but they don't own it. As well a signature win acts like a crystal ball on the recruiting trail...its the real evidence of life in the program. With the win, and some charisma (Kelly has that) current players become active learners...recruits have something tangible to grab onto...things get better fairly quickly. its kinda like the difference between washing your clothes with or without soap...w/o soap, you are going to need to wash them at least twice to get to the same place. A signature win is a monster catalyst to defunking a program...not saying Kelly will fail, but his life gets better way faster if he can guide these kids to a meaningful win.

We have 2 shots to get a meaningful win in '10.

Otherwise, its '11 until that happens...and '12 before it becomes consistent...if we don't get one in '11...I don't know...we are looking at a slow, methodical road back to the top 10.

Just my view of it...

 

[CanadianIrish]

Don't make blanket statements based on one game in his first year. I'm pretty sure Cinci was actually somewhere around a top 15 defense last year with 10 new starters on defense.

Just saying... give him at least a recruiting class and another year before you make claims like that.

Cinci was 67th nationally in defense last year and 8th (last) in the Big East. They were 61st in Rushing D and 78th in Passing D. They gave up 45 points to UConn, 36 points to Illinois and 44 points to Pitt. Given the strength of their schedule, their defense was appalling.

Please check your stats before responding and criticizing my very accurate post.

 

[ndcoltsfan2010]

I agree with most of this...the funk part has a monsterously critical component...one that Harbaugh pulled off...you need to beat a top 10 team early in the process...everyone was waiting for Charlie to get a signature win...not as a measuring stick for Charlie, but as a a figurative planting of the flag...see, no matter how charismatic, no matter how brilliant, no matter how good a scheme...if you, as a coach do not find a way to knock off someone noteworthy early...your job is harder...and you may never be around long enough to turn the ship...Why? Player buy-in. The best I can provide is an analogy or two...without the win, teaching these kids is really like teaching passive learners...especially given the past of these juniors seniors...they listen and try, but they don't own it. As well a signature win acts like a crystal ball on the recruiting trail...its the real evidence of life in the program. With the win, and some charisma (Kelly has that) current players become active learners...recruits have something tangible to grab onto...things get better fairly quickly. its kinda like the difference between washing your clothes with or without soap...w/o soap, you are going to need to wash them at least twice to get to the same place. A signature win is a monster catalyst to defunking a program...not saying Kelly will fail, but his life gets better way faster if he can guide these kids to a meaningful win.

We have 2 shots to get a meaningful win in '10.

Otherwise, its '11 until that happens...and '12 before it becomes consistent...if we don't get one in '11...I don't know...we are looking at a slow, methodical road back to the top 10.

Just my view of it...

I really hope we can pull a win off with Utah or USC..., because you are right my friend about one thing. We need a big win against a quality, ranked football team and right now I can't think of the last time we have done that. I think you are also right with respect to once we get a win like that, it will give this team a boot of confidence that it has lacked in a very long time. We really need a meaningful win as you point out. This team will be all the better for it and we as fans will enjoy the win more than we have any other win in quite some time.

 

[IrishBlood81]

The '05 team was good, the '06 team had issues but was good also. Had Weis been on the sidelines we would have moved the ball, probably wouldn't have stopped them, but we would have scored. Weis did not lose like that to Navy. Can't believe people are still bashing Weis.

I truly can not believe this comment and the ones following it about Weis.
We would've moved the ball with Weis?! LMAO! How?
If we had Jimmy than, your right, we would have moved the ball better, but without him, how would we have moved the ball? What would have Weis had to do with it? Would he have been blocking?! I mean come on. Probably dumbest comment yet ...or one of these

OK - no more tongue biting for me.
Notre Dame ran Weis out of here with extreme prejudice. Yet here we are with a new coach, same problems. it make me think that the coach wasn't the problem(I thought that back then as well). Simple troubleshooting suggests that once you change a part that is bad, and the problem persist, then the part changed wasn't the problem. Its just that people hated Weis on a personal level and still do this day. He's had success before and after Notre Dame. (people hate that too)

You shouldn't be biting your tongue you should be getting a mental check up.
Okay so ND was prejudice against Weis....WHY? He was black? He was Arabic? I mean come on dude, thats just ridiculous to say it was prejudice. The only prejudice there was, was against his LOSING.
His personality wasn't the greatest either you know ...to motivate 18yea old KIDS to play their heart out.
Okay, I see, obviously its just a simple problem that takes like 2 minutes to fix, right? Kinda like changin' the oil? Bam! Its done and running smooth like a Florida right?
It would NEVER take time to fix it once you change the part...nooooo.
So please, enlighten us all here and tell us the problem? The priests? The field? The tradition? The shoes? The clouds?

Points already stated. He has Offensive coordinator experience. His offense was awesome, we were unstoppable.. Much like RichRod, the defense will get you fired. Because whats the point in 40 points per game when your opponent scores 41. Weis got canned because he didn't have total control of the team.

We were unstoppable?! For real?!
What team were you watching?! Did you by chance notice the small little LOSS to Syracuse? Also the first coach to lose to Navy. That offense was FAR from unstoppable. I mean puuleeze.

Just one HUGE face-palm for the above quotes.


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[wahoo]

I just want some kids that have some HEART! All these 4 and 5 star recruits don't mean a thing if they can't produce on the field! I doubt if hardly any of the players Navy had on the field were highly recruited and all they did was lay a major whipping on the Irish.

 

[jmurphy75]

I know this is like beating a dead horse but I look at the differences between Weis and Kelly like this. Weis got guys that were 4 and 5 star athletes and put them on the field as a team. Kelly recruits players that will compliment each other and his offensive and defensive schemes, that will make a good team. Kinda like the movie "Miracle" about the USA Olympic Hockey team. Everyone thought the coach was nuts by not picking the so called star players, but he saw a team in the players that he did pick.......it seemed to work for him. Once again just the way I'm looking at it, I guess only time will tell.

 

[IrishBlood81]

I just want some kids that have some HEART! All these 4 and 5 star recruits don't mean a thing if they can't produce on the field! I doubt if hardly any of the players Navy had on the field were highly recruited and all they did was lay a major whipping on the Irish.

Yup agree with this. And I think thats exactly what Kelly is trying to get. Many times hes hinted that the Weis regime was very loose as to attitude and didn't bring out the best in the playes eg Floyd.

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