College Football Playoff Rankings 2015 (ND #8...)

[pkt77242]

"...while at the same time providing enough flexibility and discretion to select a non-champion or independent under circumstances where that particular non-champion or independent is unequivocally one of the four best teams in the country."

I agree, just saying that a conference championship is one of the most important factors, not that it is the only factor or even the most important.

I view it this way. If the committee has two teams they view as equal for the 4th slot, they would choose the conference champion over a non conference champion.

 

[wizards8507]

I agree, just saying that a conference championship is one of the most important factors, not that it is the only factor or even the most important.

I view it this way. If the committee has two teams they view as equal for the 4th slot, they would choose the conference champion over a non conference champion.

And that alone would hurt us. But what helps us is that, embedded in your "teams they view as equal" criteria is strength of schedule. I think Notre Dame is roughly in the same position as the Big 12. The lack of a 13th game against a quality opponent is more potentially damaging than the lack of the title "conference champion." Swarbrick has set us up nicely to avoid that risk by scheduling skrongly.

 

[IrishinSyria]

I agree, just saying that a conference championship is one of the most important factors, not that it is the only factor or even the most important.

I view it this way. If the committee has two teams they view as equal for the 4th slot, they would choose the conference champion over a non conference champion.

Yeah, the use of the word "unequivocally" certainly suggests that's what they're supposed to do.

 

[IrishinSyria]

And that alone would hurt us. But what helps us is that, embedded in your "teams they view as equal" criteria is strength of schedule. I think Notre Dame is roughly in the same position as the Big 12. The lack of a 13th game against a quality opponent is more potentially damaging than the lack of the title "conference champion." Swarbrick has set us up nicely to avoid that risk by scheduling skrongly.

We really need Temple, USC, and Navy to keep on winning. All three of those things could finish in the top 25, or none of them if they pick up another loss. That could make a huge difference in how our SOS is perceived.

 

[wizards8507]

Many years, the preference given to a conference champion could actually help us. It means something like two SEC teams making the playoff in the same year is unlikely to occur.

 

[pkt77242]

Ranking Reaction: How Texas — yes, Texas — is a Playoff factor

 

[Legacy]

Legacy...

You're like that four ounce house dog that wants to hump my leg every chance you get. Much like the house dog, your bark is much worse than your bite. Go hide behind the couch and wait on the door bell to ring again. Enjoy.

As we say, Bite Me, Bama. Looking forward to kicking your hide up and down the field in the Playoffs.

 

[MNIrishman]

As we say, Bite Me, Bama. Looking forward to kicking your hide up and down the field in the Playoffs.

"Semis weren't the championship game, so the tide weren't really motivated."

 

[Bugzly21]

And that alone would hurt us. But what helps us is that, embedded in your "teams they view as equal" criteria is strength of schedule. I think Notre Dame is roughly in the same position as the Big 12. The lack of a 13th game against a quality opponent is more potentially damaging than the lack of the title "conference champion." Swarbrick has set us up nicely to avoid that risk by scheduling skrongly.

I hate that argument because all these other teams play FCS teams (or 2). So in reality even without a CCG, ND plays the same number of FBS teams as all these slapnuts.

 

[irishfan]

Absolutely not. Our best case scenario in the Big 10 is that Michigan wins with two losses. For the tiebreakers to work out, we need OSU to beat MSU and then Michigan to beat OSU.

Otherwise, the Big 10 is in the playoff no matter what happens.

We're Michigan fans for a few weeks...

That scenario is still my favorite one, and probably the only realistic way the B1G Champ doesn't finish the season ranked over us. However, it would be sweet to make the playoffs and potentially play a 12-1 MSU or 13-0 Iowa.

 

[Legacy]

"Semis weren't the championship game, so the tide weren't really motivated."

Two years in a row. No, that was Auburn in the NC. Well, if not us, maybe Oklahoma will slap them around - again.

 

[Cackalacky]

I'm just saying that we actually have no idea (technically) about how good OSU is. Sure, they won the natty last year with a young team, but they've looked nothing like that team yet this year. They have played nobody. Their best non-conference game was a VT team that might still miss a bowl game, and their best conference game was against Jordan Howard-less Indiana.

There is no evidence supporting that OSU is number three this year.

The committee is essentially holding the Big XII back while they wait on these last three weeks of big matchups. Ohio State's schedule sets up the exact same, with Sparty, scUM, and B1G CG all coming in the next three weeks.

OSU should get treated the same as the Big XII IMO, but I understand why they are not. The above is just my own personal argument. I think that if any team from the B1G should be ranked #3 right now, it's Iowa. Better resume than OSU to this point, and so we actually *know* that Iowa is a pretty good team.

For the most part, outside of ND, no team has played very many games OOC so we only know how good any of them are with respect to their conference and maybe a few common opponents. That can be said virtually about any team outside of ND, Alabama, Navy, and maybe Tennessee.

I disagree there is "no evidence to support OSU is number 3"... Iowa is a perennial .500 team and are by all measures exceeding their expectations. OSU is a perennial 0-2 loss team coming off beating Oregon and Alabama for a National title. Every metric I have seen to date has OSU above Iowa by a wide margin so I am unsure why you say the have a better resume to date. Iowa is #23 in FEI and 28 in the S&P....FEI ranks their SOS #103.

Its no question that Iowa gets left out unless they win the Big Televen.

 

[BeauBenken]

Question:

Does anyone see a team, with no shot of making the playoffs in either the last game of the season or in a conference championship game, potentially bowing out and letting the other team (one with a chance to make the playoffs) smack them to secure that conference's place in the playoffs? (Think Ohio State's win over Wisconsin last year or potentially one of the Oklahoma teams this year.)

I mean, I think it's nuts. The typical pride involved especially among coaches and the like, I think would prevent this, but so many other conspiracies are shared among this board, I just wonder if anyone could see this being possible.

 

[dublinirish]

Question:

Does anyone see a team, with no shot of making the playoffs in either the last game of the season or in a conference championship game, potentially bowing out, letting the other team (one with a chance to make the playoffs) smack them to secure that conference's place in the playoffs?

I mean, I think it's kinda nuts. The typical pride involved especially among coaches and the like, I think would prevent this, but so many other conspiracies are shared among this board, I just wonder if anyone could see this being possible.

i could see referees being influenced by this.
It's in the Big12's interest for Ok. State to win out, ditto the B1G for OSU or Iowa. I'd be keeping an eye on the refs when MSU and UM take on OSU

 

[wizards8507]

I hate that argument because all these other teams play FCS teams (or 2). So in reality even without a CCG, ND plays the same number of FBS teams as all these slapnuts.

That's not true. Oklahoma played the MAC, SEC, and AAC. Ohio State played the ACC, Mountain West, and two MAC teams. Michigan State played the Pac-12, the Mountain West, and two MAC teams.

Yes, UMass, Navy, and Temple are stronger than those slates but those programs did not have any FBS opponents on their schedule.

Question:

Does anyone see a team, with no shot of making the playoffs in either the last game of the season or in a conference championship game, potentially bowing out and letting the other team (one with a chance to make the playoffs) smack them to secure that conference's place in the playoffs? (Think Ohio State's win over Wisconsin last year or potentially one of the Oklahoma teams this year.)

I mean, I think it's nuts. The typical pride involved especially among coaches and the like, I think would prevent this, but so many other conspiracies are shared among this board, I just wonder if anyone could see this being possible.

I had that same thought this morning. I think the thing that says "no way" is that the Big 12 teams all still view themselves as contenders.

 

[wizards8507]

Or does ND get put in with the argument that teams need to schedule legitimate OOC games against a wide variety of teams?

That's where I'd like to see it go. Little to no diversity in schedules absolutely kills the idea of fairly ranking teams. I'm looking at teams never leaving their region, and teams never playing P5 OOC teams. It needs fixed.

Meanwhile, Notre Dame played a Big 12 team, one MAC team, two good AAC teams, two good PAC 12 teams, and six ACC teams. That's diversity.

That's where I'd like to see it go. I hate when you look at a week's slate of games and you're disappointed because it's LSU hosting McNeese State and Wofford at Clemson.

 

[Irish YJ]

No, nobody will be watching. Top teams playing bottom-feeders don't get an audience. They get a glance at the box score. That's why it's super important that the final score reflect our superiority. We can't be giving up garbage time touchdowns as has become our habit against inferior competition.

One thing that has a slight negative effect on us in terms of exposure is that our games aren't on ABC / ESPN networks so our highlights don't make it into a lot of the halftime shows. It takes ESPN much longer to ingest and flip NBC feeds for a highlight package than what they can do with their own content.

The committee will watch. Everybody else will just look at the score and judge. We need style points. Minimum 21pt win.

They'll watch all top 10 games, maybe not live, but if they're not watching every game, ours included, they're not doing their jobs. So yes they will see the BC gam

Pretty sure I heard them say last year they watch an edit (sped up version) of all top 25 teams.

That's where I'd like to see it go. I hate when you look at a week's slate of games and you're disappointed because it's LSU hosting McNeese State and Wofford at Clemson.

I really wish some standard was defined with OOC scheduling. I really don't even mind that a school has 1 FCS tune up, or one strategic FCS bye. The rest though need to be against certain conferences, and minimum 1 of another power 5. Some natural inter-conference affiliations would be nice like the sec/acc or big12/pac12, on a rotating basis, etc.

 

[CurtisCandy]

If someone already mentioned this possibility, I apologize. I got too far behind on this thread (and I'm too lazy) to catch up on all that's been posted.

Along with the possibility of U$C, Stanford, Navy and Temple being ranked at the end of the year, couldn't Pitt also work their way back in? They had a very close loss to Iowa and played North Carolina tough in a loss. If they were to beat Louisville and Miami down the stretch, that might be enough to possibly have them ranked, too, wouldn't it?

 

[irishfan]

If someone already mentioned this possibility, I apologize. I got too far behind on this thread (and I'm too lazy) to catch up on all that's been posted.

Along with the possibility of U$C, Stanford, Navy and Temple being ranked at the end of the year, couldn't Pitt also work their way back in? They had a very close loss to Iowa and played North Carolina tough in a loss. If they were to beat Louisville and Miami down the stretch, that might be enough to possibly have them ranked, too, wouldn't it?

I believe they would definitely be ranked since their only losses at 9-3 would be to ND, Iowa, and UNC.

 

[BobbyMac]

If you want a conspiracy then the most likely is if Oklahoma gets in over ND it's the committee setting the biggest fire possible in college football for the expansion to an 8 team playoff.

It's gonna happen (8 team playoff), they're leaving over a billion dollars of economic impact on the table not playing those 4 games. They won't let it sit there forever. You know the various bowl committees along with the states of CA, AZ, TX, LA, FL and maybe GA are lobbying for it so they can be in on the payday. I can't believe the governors of those states haven't been more proactive to this point.

 

[CTIDANDREW]

If you want a conspiracy then the most likely is if Oklahoma gets in over ND it's the committee setting the biggest fire possible in college football for the expansion to an 8 team playoff.

It's gonna happen (8 team playoff), they're leaving over a billion dollars of economic impact on the table not playing those 4 games. They won't let it sit there forever. You know the various bowl committees along with the states of CA, AZ, TX, LA, FL and maybe GA are lobbying for it so they can be in on the payday. I can't believe the governors of those states haven't been more proactive to this point.

In my opinion, the correct number and hopeful number is 6 teams. It would end the discussion of a deserving power 5 conference winner being kept out, and would reward the top two ranked teams in the country with a bye. However, I do understand 8 is more likely, but 6 is the correct answer in my opinion.

 

[Legacy]

I don't think an undefeated Oklahoma State gets in over a one loss Notre Dame. Again, the Texas factor. Oklahoma State beat Texas by three points on a last second field goal due to a botched Texas punt. Before that, penalties led to Oklahoma State tying the game. Some of the officiating was called into question. Oklahoma State does not have the SOS that we do. Both ND and Oklahoma State will have played the same number of FBS games.

So, even if the B12, without a championship game, declares OU or Okla State their conference champion, we are the better team.

 

[IrishinSyria]

I don't think an undefeated Oklahoma State gets in over a one loss Notre Dame. Again, the Texas factor. Oklahoma State beat Texas by three points on a last second field goal due to a botched Texas punt. Before that, penalties led to Oklahoma State tying the game. Some of the officiating was called into question. Oklahoma State does not have the SOS that we do. Both ND and Oklahoma State will have played the same number of FBS games.

So, even if the B12, without a championship game, declares OU or Okla State a champion, we are the better team.

So my question to you is this: if UNC beats Clemson, will you accept that "the Clemson factor" means that they should get into the playoffs ahead of us, or would you argue that the totality of circumstances means that we should still get in?

 

[stlnd01]

I don't think an undefeated Oklahoma State gets in over a one loss Notre Dame.

I think you are wrong. An undefeated Big 12 champ that ends the season beating Baylor and Oklahoma gets in. They just do. Then they get rocked by Alabama. But they make the playoff.

Oklahoma vs. ND is an interesting debate. As someone said a few pages back, best thing for us is Baylor beating Okie State - ideally by a lot - this week and knocking them down a peg before they play the Sooners. Also TCU losing two more games. The Big 12 looks a lot less rugged with TCU unranked and Okie State down around 15-20.

 

[Wingman Ray]

Or does ND get put in with the argument that teams need to schedule legitimate OOC games against a wide variety of teams?

That's where I'd like to see it go. Little to no diversity in schedules absolutely kills the idea of fairly ranking teams. I'm looking at teams never leaving their region, and teams never playing P5 OOC teams. It needs fixed.

Meanwhile, Notre Dame played a Big 12 team, one MAC team, two good AAC teams, two good PAC 12 teams, and six ACC teams. That's diversity.

What really sucks is when they start scheduling IU, Purdue, Wake Forest, Arizonas of the country to show they are playing P5 teams to meet the requirements when everyone knows those teams have zero chance of winning. But those teams will jump at the opportunity to make big bucks and be on TV.

 

[Green Mountains]

Dream scenerio:

1) Win out;
2) Baylor beats OSU; OSU beats OU (if 1 and 2 happens, ND is in...period);
3) OSU beat MSU; Michigan beat OSU; Michigan beat Iowa (if 1 and 3 happens, ND is in....period. if 1, 2 and 3 happen, ND is a three spot);
4) FSU beats FL; FL beats Alabama (I'm not holding my breath);
5) Clemson - win out - ND doesn't need the one loss debate with Clemson

 

[Legacy]

So my question to you is this: if UNC beats Clemson, will you accept that "the Clemson factor" means that they should get into the playoffs ahead of us, or would you argue that the totality of circumstances means that we should still get in?

First, if UNC beats Clemson, that opens up a Playoff spot, so I'm not sure if the choice would come down to UNC vs ND.

We've discussed the Committee's criteria. I would regard UNC more of a conference champion than the B12 top dog. A championship game is the chance for an underdog like UNC to upset an acknowledged regular season champion like Clemson. Two FCS games hurts UNC more than a win over Clemson would help. I don't think it's necessarily one factor like a shared opponent result. Now if UNC were to blast Clemson out of the water, that's different.

With less shine for the B12's conference "championship" than other P5 conferences and without head to heads between ND and Oklahoma State, the Committee would be down to the better team. Those factors would include entire body of work, SOS, best wins/losses, eye ball test, etc. At that point I feel we win.

 

[BeauBenken]

What really sucks is when they start scheduling IU, Purdue, Wake Forest, Arizonas of the country to show they are playing P5 teams to meet the requirements when everyone knows those teams have zero chance of winning. But those teams will jump at the opportunity to make big bucks and be on TV.

Really don't think those are THAT bad of teams to play. At least they recruit D1 athletes. It'd still be a step up. Although a top 50 or 60 program would be preferred.

Sent from my XT1032 using Tapatalk

 

[gkIrish]

I don't think an undefeated Oklahoma State gets in over a one loss Notre Dame. Again, the Texas factor. Oklahoma State beat Texas by three points on a last second field goal due to a botched Texas punt. Before that, penalties led to Oklahoma State tying the game. Some of the officiating was called into question. Oklahoma State does not have the SOS that we do. Both ND and Oklahoma State will have played the same number of FBS games.

So, even if the B12, without a championship game, declares OU or Okla State their conference champion, we are the better team.

First of all the OSU Texas game was in Austin.

Second, Swoopes was the QB against ND and he has essentially been the backup the entire rest of the year. No one ever talks about this. If our game against them was in Austin, with a healthy Heard at QB, we wouldn't win by 35.

Third, our reliance on beating Texas in week 1 to validate our position as a top 4 team is getting kind of ridiculous. I'd like to see someone make a case for us to be a top 4 team without mentioning the word "Texas." (that was a rhetorical request no one should actually do this).

 

[koonja]

First of all the OSU Texas game was in Austin.

Second, Swoopes was the QB against ND and he has essentially been the backup the entire rest of the year. No one ever talks about this. If our game against them was in Austin, with a healthy Heard at QB, we wouldn't win by 35.

Third, our reliance on beating Texas in week 1 to validate our position as a top 4 team is getting kind of ridiculous. I'd like to see someone make a case for us to be a top 4 team without mentioning the word "Texas." (that was a rhetorical request no one should actually do this).

You sound like this guy.

https://twitter.com/DanWolken/status/666822054847643648