College Football Playoff Expansion?

[fightingirish26]

Agree, OU plays in Charmin soft conference. The big uglies would wear down their linemen.

Last year's OU defense was surprisingly good. Normally they are soft but that just wasn't the case in 2020. They struggled in the beginning of the season bc they were breaking in Rattler.

 

[Pops Freshenmeyer]

What was the spread on that game?

Wikipedia says Georgia was a 1.5 favorite.

 

[Rogue219]

We've beaten LSU in the post-season three times during that period. You can discount those for not happening in "NY6 Bowls" if you want, but: (1) the goal posts can always be moved for anything short of a natty; and (2) those "major bowls" are now pretty meaningless themselves outside of the CFP.



It's just a different model. The SEC headline match-ups are generally tougher than ours, while their cupcakes are also squishier than ours. Check out Sagarin's SOS rankings for last season. Just looking at the top 20, our schedule (#57) was better than Cincinatti (#91), Buffalo (#76), and BYU (#106), but it was significantly weaker than everyone else's (other than Clemson, thanks ACC).

It's cool that we're one of only three programs who have never played an FCS team before, and I hope they keep that going. But I'm not inclined to beat my chest about it.

Nobody cares ND beat LSU in December bowl games outside of the fanbase. The national narrative bulletpoint is the Rick Minter Sugar Bowl of January 2007 when future Hostess King Jamarcus Russell pantsed ND in New Orleans.

It all comes down to one thing: if Jack believes this format is good for ND and can win them a National Championship, so be it. Winning National Championships should be the top priority. I think the top priority, however, is money and remaining independent.

 

[Rogue219]

Wikipedia says Georgia was a 1.5 favorite.

Thank you.

Not an upset.

 

[Dale]

Thank you.

Not an upset.

Does it matter if it’s a ATS upset from this POV? The implication was how a conference championship could alter the playoff bracket. Without that game Auburn makes the playoff, with that game Georgia did and was a OT away from a a national championship. From the expansion POV, without that game Auburn gets a bye and Top 4, with the game Georgia does. The higher seed got upset and lost their spot.

 

[TNUtoNotreDame]

Nobody cares ND beat LSU in December bowl games outside of the fanbase. The national narrative bulletpoint is the Rick Minter Sugar Bowl of January 2007 when future Hostess King Jamarcus Russell pantsed ND in New Orleans.

It all comes down to one thing: if Jack believes this format is good for ND and can win them a National Championship, so be it. Winning National Championships should be the top priority. I think the top priority, however, is money and remaining independent.

The funny thing is how independent are we? When a conference dictates more than 40% of your schedule I have a tough time calling that independence. So we have three locked games (Navy,USC,Stanford) and 5 ACC games. Therefore, we really are talking about 4 games where we are independent and free to schedule who we want.

I view independence as a marketing gimmick at this point.

 

[zelezo vlk]

The funny thing is how independent are we? When a conference dictates more than 40% of your schedule I have a tough time calling that independence. So we have three locked games (Navy,USC,Stanford) and 5 ACC games. Therefore, we really are talking about 4 games where we are independent and free to schedule who we want.

I view independence as a marketing gimmick at this point.

Heck Pitt, Wake, BC, Georgia Tech, Miami have been on the schedule before the ACC agreement. And at least 1 or 2 would be on the schedule dang near every year. So it's really only a few more ACC games than normal.

 

[Trait Expectations]

The funny thing is how independent are we? When a conference dictates more than 40% of your schedule I have a tough time calling that independence. So we have three locked games (Navy,USC,Stanford) and 5 ACC games. Therefore, we really are talking about 4 games where we are independent and free to schedule who we want.

I view independence as a marketing gimmick at this point.

That's because you aren't considering anything else besides the scheduling model. What about the television contract/always being televised, even against the weakest opponents? That is still a huge selling point. The conference only dictates 40% because Jack shrewdly negotiated a great deal with the ACC. We get to have our cake and eat it too but some people are too thick to see the inherent advantages of ND's current position.

The playoff expansion, as laid out, further strengthens ND's position and eliminates the 13th data point discussion. (I'd argue no reasonable person would bring it up after the Buckeyes being included last year but I digress). Jack has done incredibly well for ND, I hope the team can capitalize and win at least one title before his time is up. The clock is ticking...

 

[Rogue219]

Does it matter if it’s a ATS upset from this POV? The implication was how a conference championship could alter the playoff bracket. Without that game Auburn makes the playoff, with that game Georgia did and was a OT away from a a national championship. From the expansion POV, without that game Auburn gets a bye and Top 4, with the game Georgia does. The higher seed got upset and lost their spot.

In this instance, the Supreme Court would say it's like porn...you know it when you see it.

This wasn't an upset.

 

[Dale]

In this instance, the Supreme Court would say it's like porn...you know it when you see it.

This wasn't an upset.

Auburn had beaten Georgia and Alabama that year by double double digits lol. It had a drastic effect on the playoff that year, it would have had a drastic effect on the expanded playoff. I guess a 1 pt line erases all of that lol.

 

[Rogue219]

The funny thing is how independent are we? When a conference dictates more than 40% of your schedule I have a tough time calling that independence. So we have three locked games (Navy,USC,Stanford) and 5 ACC games. Therefore, we really are talking about 4 games where we are independent and free to schedule who we want.

I view independence as a marketing gimmick at this point.

It's worked. ND fans of all generations and types cling to it. Alumni and Subway Alumni alike. I could care less. Do whatever needs to be done to win National Championships.

If they think this structure is going to get them there, fine. Play an Indepedent schedule that consists of ACC teams, never get a playoff bye, keep playing the chop blocking service academies, fly all the way out to California every November.

They have said to us before time and again that not being in a conference means the goal is National Championship or bust. So do what is best for the program to get there. I think most ND fans are smart enough to know when they're having their heads pissed on and being told it's raining, but maybe not.

 

[Rogue219]

Auburn had beaten Georgia and Alabama that year by double double digits lol. It had a drastic effect on the playoff that year, it would have had a drastic effect on the expanded playoff. I guess a 1 pt line erases all of that lol.

It's not a 3-4 loss division winner stunning a top four team. Vegas had Georgia as a 1.5 chalk and they won. It's the SEC.

I'm talking chaos, here, man. Imagine 8-4 UVA beating Clemson, straight up, in a legit upset in the ACC Championship. That's actually memorable.

Most of these conference championship games are, and have been, complete garbage. And will continue to be. But hail the 13th data point.

 

[TNUtoNotreDame]

That's because you aren't considering anything else besides the scheduling model. What about the television contract/always being televised, even against the weakest opponents? That is still a huge selling point. The conference only dictates 40% because Jack shrewdly negotiated a great deal with the ACC. We get to have our cake and eat it too but some people are too thick to see the inherent advantages of ND's current position.

The playoff expansion, as laid out, further strengthens ND's position and eliminates the 13th data point discussion. (I'd argue no reasonable person would bring it up after the Buckeyes being included last year but I digress). Jack has done incredibly well for ND, I hope the team can capitalize and win at least one title before his time is up. The clock is ticking...

We already play 62.5% of a full conference slate, yet we get no benefit from it (no CCG access). That is not great negotiation in my opinion, that is a failure by Jack. We have partnered with the weakest of the conferences who feed us a bunch of crap game s(With an occasional Clemson). I wish we would go 100% independent, or join all in. The Big East sounds a lot better than the crap-fest ACC.

Has nothing to do with thickness, it has to do with perception of the current situation. just because someone points out a different view does not make them "thick". Do better.

 

[NorthDakota]

We already play 62.5% of a full conference slate, yet we get no benefit from it (no CCG access). That is not great negotiation in my opinion, that is a failure by Jack. We have partnered with the weakest of the conferences who feed us a bunch of crap game s(With an occasional Clemson). I wish we would go 100% independent, or join all in. The Big East sounds a lot better than the crap-fest ACC.

Has nothing to do with thickness, it has to do with perception of the current situation. just because someone points out a different view does not make them "thick". Do better.

To be fair, the ACC should be solid most years. Florida State and Miami are programs with a history of success. Once one or both of them get back on track, the ACC will look much better.

 

[TNUtoNotreDame]

To be fair, the ACC should be solid most years. Florida State and Miami are programs with a history of success. Once one or both of them get back on track, the ACC will look much better.

The ACC has been waiting for Miami to be better for a decade. Maybe they are finally on the upswing?

 

[Rogue219]

To be fair, the ACC should be solid most years. Florida State and Miami are programs with a history of success. Once one or both of them get back on track, the ACC will look much better.

Which years, though? Clemson, FSU and VT have dominated the century so far in the ACC. Miami has won zero ACC Championships. They've won 2 of their last 13 bowl games. Anything they did, they did in the Big East or as an Independent going on at the earliest twenty plus years ago. That program has been down a long time.

The last team to win the ACC that wasn't Clemson, FSU or VT was Georgia Tech in 2009 and they had to vacate it. Wake got it in 2006 at 11-3.

It's a bunch of basketball schools, has beens and never will bes when it comes to college football, no?

 

[Rogue219]

The ACC has been waiting for Miami to be better for a decade. Maybe they are finally on the upswing?

They're shit and show no signs of not being shit. Enjoy it.

 

[Trait Expectations]

We already play 62.5% of a full conference slate, yet we get no benefit from it (no CCG access). That is not great negotiation in my opinion, that is a failure by Jack. We have partnered with the weakest of the conferences who feed us a bunch of crap game s(With an occasional Clemson). I wish we would go 100% independent, or join all in. The Big East sounds a lot better than the crap-fest ACC.

Has nothing to do with thickness, it has to do with perception of the current situation. just because someone points out a different view does not make them "thick". Do better.

Why the hell would you want access to a CCG after playing 62.5% of your games in a conference? ND can now play a top 12 team without having to play a top 2-4 team in the first round of the playoffs. With all conferences changing their scheduling practices to require more conference games, it necessitated a formal alliance with a conference. It used to be more open so that an independent school could pick and choose the schedule. The ACC matches ND more closely than any other conference - we make their conference more heavyweight and they supply us with quality opponents to schedule.

My hope is we stop scheduling additional top 10 games for SOS points. With the 12 team system, it's almost pointless.

100% independence makes it virtually impossible to schedule as you'd like.
Joining a conference takes your television contract off the table.

Your weak ass argument and dissatisfaction with Jack don't hold water. You do better.

 

[TNUtoNotreDame]

Why the hell would you want access to a CCG after playing 62.5% of your games in a conference? ND can now play a top 12 team without having to play a top 2-4 team in the first round of the playoffs. With all conferences changing their scheduling practices to require more conference games, it necessitated a formal alliance with a conference. It used to be more open so that an independent school could pick and choose the schedule. The ACC matches ND more closely than any other conference - we make their conference more heavyweight and they supply us with quality opponents to schedule.

My hope is we stop scheduling additional top 10 games for SOS points. With the 12 team system, it's almost pointless.

100% independence makes it virtually impossible to schedule as you'd like.
Joining a conference takes your television contract off the table.

Your weak ass argument and dissatisfaction with Jack don't hold water. You do better.

Quality opponents. LOL. Yeah give me Duke and Wake Forest! I demand more BC!!!!! NBC demands more NC State!!!!

FYI, the ACC would allow us to keep the NBC contract. Your boy Swarbrick is such a great negotiator that should be no problem.

Do better.

 

[Rogue219]

I have a hard time worrying about ND ever not being on TV every week. Is that really a thing? I've had YouTube TV for nearly two years and I have more than enough channels to where I see Wake Forest, Army, Fresno State, etc. and I live in the Midwest. Who the hell is watching these teams play?

I think I recall ND being blacked out for a road game at Air Force when Weis was coach. This elusive channel the game was provided on wound up being CBS Sports Network, which I now have and once watched Florida Atlantic play Marshall on a few years ago.

Conference or not, ND is going to be on TV because these dudes all know what's good for them.

 

[Pops Freshenmeyer]

I have a hard time worrying about ND ever not being on TV every week. Is that really a thing? I've had YouTube TV for nearly two years and I have more than enough channels to where I see Wake Forest, Army, Fresno State, etc. and I live in the Midwest. Who the hell is watching these teams play?

I think I recall ND being blacked out for a road game at Air Force when Weis was coach. This elusive channel the game was provided on wound up being CBS Sports Network, which I now have and once watched Florida Atlantic play Marshall on a few years ago.

Conference or not, ND is going to be on TV because these dudes all know what's good for them.

ESPN is in just under 2/3 of television households. That’s a lot of people who get ND games but don’t pay for live streaming/cable.

They are less likely to be sports fans than those who pay but it’s still 40-50 million additional households ND reaches when on broadcast.

 

[Some Irish Bloke]

I think some may be overlooking the fact that in this format, the top 4 seeds doesn't necessarily mean the top 4 TEAMS in the playoffs. They are reserved for conference champions.

Hypothetically, would you rather play top 4-seeded USC/Oregon/Washington or Oklahoma in the second game, or potentially take on the second best of Georgia/Alabama/LSU in the first?

I'll take the former.

Jack did a fine job with this negotiation. Although it's BS how some of these southern schools schedule in November, we never have to hear about the "13th data point" argument and very likely will be hosting a December playoff game in the near future. Not too shabby.

 

[Trait Expectations]

Quality opponents. LOL. Yeah give me Duke and Wake Forest! I demand more BC!!!!! NBC demands more NC State!!!!

FYI, the ACC would allow us to keep the NBC contract. Your boy Swarbrick is such a great negotiator that should be no problem.

Do better.

Lol. I almost discussed the weakest opponents of the ACC, Big 10, etc but I thought you'd give more energy to your reply. I noticed that you didn't reply to any of my other questions, probably not on accident eh?



I concede, we should join a conference and play a CCG every year. We should schedule FCS schools in the remaining spots.

Naturally, I want us to throw away our independence because some fans don't see the point.

We should shit on Swarbrick because we all have about 75% of the IQ points.

The ACC would allow us to keep the contract but there'd be some type of profit-sharing built in. Why would we want to join a conference again? I haven't heard the strong point for going from 62.5% to 100%. Why should we give up our yearly games in California with USC and to a lesser extent Stanford?

Help me better understand your position on why we need to go all in. I really don't see the benefits so maybe I'm missing something. The certainty of your position should make this very simple: share your compelling position and we'll all end up agreeing with you.

 

[Rogue219]

ESPN is in just under 2/3 of television households. That’s a lot of people who get ND games but don’t pay for live streaming/cable.

They are less likely to be sports fans than those who pay but it’s still 40-50 million additional households ND reaches when on broadcast.

I guess as a fan, I'm more concerned with ND winning another NC than their NBC TV Deal money. Again, forgive me for repeating myself, but if being on NBC is what has to be done in order to win another National Championship then do that, by all means. January of 1989 was a long time ago.

I know Jack Swarbrick is doing what is best for ND and not the fans, and I have no issue with the job he's done, but it ultimately comes down to that for me: getting the program as many bites at the apple as possible until they finally win another one.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

I guess as a fan, I'm more concerned with ND winning another NC than their NBC TV Deal money. Again, forgive me for repeating myself, but if being on NBC is what has to be done in order to win another National Championship then do that, by all means. January of 1989 was a long time ago.

I know Jack Swarbrick is doing what is best for ND and not the fans, and I have no issue with the job he's done, but it ultimately comes down to that for me: getting the program as many bites at the apple as possible until they finally win another one.

We're in a weird spot where ND's admin isn't willing to jump into the CFB arms race fully, but they also aren't willing to give up on competing against those programs yet. So it makes sense that we'd position to get as many play-off runs as possible (even if each individual run is longer odds), since we don't know what the coming decades will bring re congressional investigations, further consolidation into 4 super leagues, etc.

 

[Irish#1]

In this instance, the Supreme Court would say it's like porn...you know it when you see it.

This wasn't an upset.

Nothing wrong with porn when done tastefully.

 

[Irish#1]

I have a hard time worrying about ND ever not being on TV every week. Is that really a thing? I've had YouTube TV for nearly two years and I have more than enough channels to where I see Wake Forest, Army, Fresno State, etc. and I live in the Midwest. Who the hell is watching these teams play?

I think I recall ND being blacked out for a road game at Air Force when Weis was coach. This elusive channel the game was provided on wound up being CBS Sports Network, which I now have and once watched Florida Atlantic play Marshall on a few years ago.

Conference or not, ND is going to be on TV because these dudes all know what's good for them.

Only their fans and diehard FB junkies who are betting. If someone wants to see their team play on TV, more than likely they can find the game somewhere.

The difference is ND is the only team whose game is going to be broadcast nationally most every week.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Nothing wrong with porn when done tastefully.

This is a family-friendly website for fans of Our Lady's university.

 

[Irish#1]

We already play 62.5% of a full conference slate, yet we get no benefit from it (no CCG access). That is not great negotiation in my opinion, that is a failure by Jack. We have partnered with the weakest of the conferences who feed us a bunch of crap game s(With an occasional Clemson). I wish we would go 100% independent, or join all in. The Big East sounds a lot better than the crap-fest ACC.

Has nothing to do with thickness, it has to do with perception of the current situation. just because someone points out a different view does not make them "thick". Do better.

The Big East doesn't play football.

 

[Irish#1]

This is a family-friendly website for fans of Our Lady's university.

He brought it up. Just sayin'!