Coaching Carousel

[SportsingHard]

Chip Kelly really did a number on them.

UCLA's biggest problem is UCLA (i.e. lack of interest in and commitment to the football program.) This is exactly why no attractive coach wants the job.

Generally speaking, when a program struggles these days, look at the level of support the HC is receiving first, then look at the coach himself.

 

[Irish#1]

Initial reports were that LSU is NOT handing out a huge long term contract for a "proven" coach, so I assumed they may already have something cookin with Sumrall only b/c it makes sense logistically.

Guaranteed big money often breed complacency. We see it all the time with players, and coaches aren’t any different.

If LSU can land Sumrall with a 4 year deal at a reasonable price, bring in a competent GM to manage the roster, and frame it as a way to secure a strong coach while keeping more money available for players, fans will be far less likely to question hiring a G5 coach. Maybe it works, maybe it doesn’t - but I think it's a smarter play.

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

 

[dublinirish]

UCLA's biggest problem is UCLA (i.e. lack of interest in and commitment to the football program.) This is exactly why no attractive coach wants the job.

Generally speaking, when a program struggles these days, look at the level of support the HC is receiving first, then look at the coach himself.

they'll never get program builder types but i think its a good opportunity for an offensive minded coach thats eyeing a NFL OC gig. You can always get a QB and WR core to go there or transfer in

 

[Wild Bill]

I honestly wonder how much interviewing, vetting and conversation actually happens with these hires. I think LSU didn't get their first couple of choices and moved right onto Brian Kelly.

I agree with you. Do your due diligence and find the young up and coming guy who is hungry. Who is ready now. Sumrall, Dillingham, Silverfield, Golesh, etc. Take a shot on a talented coordinator with no HC experience IF....IF....the guy gives you a solid plan as to how he'll structure things knowing he's never been an HC before and how he'll work around that.

Busting out big money to swing Lane Kiffin is a fabulous PR move, but you get all that comes with it. Both past and present.

You’re looking for a guy who’s a leader, a salesman, a manager, a developer, a strategist, a recruiter, a motivator, a psychologist, a politician, and a CEO, all rolled into one, operating in an industry that’s changed more in the last two years than in the previous twenty, and will likely continue to change utnil the rev sharing is figured out.

That might sound a bit over the top, but it’s really not far off. The problem is, a lot of those qualities are almost impossible to identify in an interview. The nuances matter, and they’re easy to miss. Take Kelly, for example. He’s a salesman and a politician with CEO qualities - so you’d think that means he’s a strong recruiter and an effective leader. He pulled Notre Dame out of a bad stretch, got better players, handled media well, etc.

LSU probably thought they were getting that same proven leader to steady the program after it went off the rails with Coach O. Instead, they got a coach who prefers to delegate recruiting and appear to lead, rather than truly connect with and motivate the players. Coach O was a mess by the end, but you can bet his players would’ve run through a wall for him. So which one is the better leader?

How many ADs can sit down with a coach and figure out if he knows ball or not? There are levels this and there's not a chance in hell ADs can figure that out during an interview. They are all just relying on perception.

 

[Jiggafini19Deux]

You’re looking for a guy who’s a leader, a salesman, a manager, a developer, a strategist, a recruiter, a motivator, a psychologist, a politician, and a CEO, all rolled into one, operating in an industry that’s changed more in the last two years than in the previous twenty, and will likely continue to change utnil the rev sharing is figured out.

That might sound a bit over the top, but it’s really not far off. The problem is, a lot of those qualities are almost impossible to identify in an interview. The nuances matter, and they’re easy to miss. Take Kelly, for example. He’s a salesman and a politician with CEO qualities - so you’d think that means he’s a strong recruiter and an effective leader. He pulled Notre Dame out of a bad stretch, got better players, handled media well, etc.

LSU probably thought they were getting that same proven leader to steady the program after it went off the rails with Coach O. Instead, they got a coach who prefers to delegate recruiting and appear to lead, rather than truly connect with and motivate the players. Coach O was a mess by the end, but you can bet his players would’ve run through a wall for him. So which one is the better leader?

How many ADs can sit down with a coach and figure out if he knows ball or not? There are levels this and there's not a chance in hell ADs can figure that out during an interview. They are all just relying on perception.

I don't think it is over the top at all. You're exactly right.

I think with all of the changes to college football now, just getting a guy that can coach up players and knows the game is a major portion of this. You can hire all the GM and recruiting staff to do a lot of what the coaches used to have to do a few years ago. Ultimately, though, your HC has to be a lot of things regardless. Now there are more options with staffing to delegate and or carry less of the weight in certain areas.

Coach O had baggage going back to his days at The U has a younger man. I think everyone sort of knew who he was. Players love the guy. He crashed out of the Ole Miss job, where he was hired having never been an HC or DC. He thrived as an interim, twice, going 6-2 at both USC and LSU. On the surface, it all looks pretty great, but LSU got short term returns when they took a gamble hiring him. He grew up down there and it just seemed like a great fit at the time.

Kelly brought some stability to LSU and solidified some of the infrastructure that rotted under Orgeron. I felt when he was hired it wasn't a good fit. This was a guy who grew up in New England and spent his entire coaching career in the Midwest getting hired by LSU, of all places. He goes into UC, ND, LSU and gets the foundation reset but can't get you to the mountaintop.

I guess if you ask me who the better leader is, for LSU, it was Orgeron. Overall, I probably have to pick Kelly over Orgeron. Not that it really matters, but you've illustrated the point very well. A lot of these athletic directors get it wrong in the moment and maybe a few get lucky in the short term. One of the things I think goes unnoticed is the turnover a lot of these schools experience at the AD and university president positions. LSU currently doesn't have one as I understand it? Their university president just left for Rutgers? That's the leadership at the top where things start and it's why so many of these hires go sideways.

At least ND seems to have a solid foundation there.

Good stuff, @Wild Bill

 

[SportsingHard]

You’re looking for a guy who’s a leader, a salesman, a manager, a developer, a strategist, a recruiter, a motivator, a psychologist, a politician, and a CEO, all rolled into one, operating in an industry that’s changed more in the last two years than in the previous twenty, and will likely continue to change utnil the rev sharing is figured out.

That might sound a bit over the top, but it’s really not far off. The problem is, a lot of those qualities are almost impossible to identify in an interview. The nuances matter, and they’re easy to miss. Take Kelly, for example. He’s a salesman and a politician with CEO qualities - so you’d think that means he’s a strong recruiter and an effective leader. He pulled Notre Dame out of a bad stretch, got better players, handled media well, etc.

LSU probably thought they were getting that same proven leader to steady the program after it went off the rails with Coach O. Instead, they got a coach who prefers to delegate recruiting and appear to lead, rather than truly connect with and motivate the players. Coach O was a mess by the end, but you can bet his players would’ve run through a wall for him. So which one is the better leader?

How many ADs can sit down with a coach and figure out if he knows ball or not? There are levels this and there's not a chance in hell ADs can figure that out during an interview. They are all just relying on perception.

You correctly named 10 roles, 9 of which rely heavily on people skills. Discerning interviewers can ascertain someone's competence in this domain, but LSU already knew (or should've known) BK's lacked people skills prior to any interview.

This is exactly why Freeman is the far better modern day football coach.

 

[dublinirish]

GM's will be taking a lot of the burden off HC's in the coming years you would think. Will basically end up where the HC is just in charge of football strategy much like NFL

 

[Bane]

 

[Jiggafini19Deux]

GM's will be taking a lot of the burden off HC's in the coming years you would think. Will basically end up where the HC is just in charge of football strategy much like NFL

I think this is the way to go. Get the fit right, though. If you're going after a big name or using a search firm, you are limiting yourself.

Finding the young, hungry guy might be the way to go. Or just a good cultural fit. I don't know if locking yourself into alums is the right way, but for some schools it could be. Lea and Key are proving to be really good fits. Younger dudes like Freeman and Lanning were given shots. So far so good.

I think it's all about finding the right fit going forward.

 

[ulukinatme]

It's kind of amazing to me that LSU is going to eat this big buyout for Kelly now after they just ate one for Coach O about 3 years ago. Wasn't LSU (Or maybe it was just the state of Louisiana) in a hole financially like...3-5 years ago? Maybe it was farther back, I don't remember. I know the state is like $16 billion in debt or something.

 

[burmafrd1944]

It's kind of amazing to me that LSU is going to eat this big buyout for Kelly now after they just ate one for Coach O about 3 years ago. Wasn't LSU (Or maybe it was just the state of Louisiana) in a hole financially like...3-5 years ago? Maybe it was farther back, I don't remember. I know the state is like $16 billion in debt or something.

clearly they have to tap wealthy Almuni and supporters

 

[Wild Bill]

clearly they have to tap wealthy Almuni and supporters

or one of the bawwwws on tiger droppings won the sweepstakes!

 

[ulukinatme]

clearly they have to tap wealthy Almuni and supporters

Two big buyouts in 3 years feels like a big ask of alumni. I'm sure there will be some kind of settlement but we're still talking a lot of dough. Who knows if they're still paying for Coach O's buyout?

 

[burmafrd1944]

It's funny because BK ended up getting half a season more than Ty Willingham did at ND.

lets be brutally honest: he got the extra time because of the color of his skin

 

[burmafrd1944]

Two big buyouts in 3 years feels like a big ask of alumni. I'm sure there will be some kind of settlement but we're still talking a lot of dough. Who knows if they're still paying for Coach O's buyout?

LSU has some billionaire's they can call; this money is peanuts to them; BUT after the last buyout, they are probably going to put real conditions for ponying up this time

 

[ulukinatme]

Embedding here so you don't have to click

 

[GreenGemsOmally]

It's kind of amazing to me that LSU is going to eat this big buyout for Kelly now after they just ate one for Coach O about 3 years ago. Wasn't LSU (Or maybe it was just the state of Louisiana) in a hole financially like...3-5 years ago? Maybe it was farther back, I don't remember. I know the state is like $16 billion in debt or something.

I live in Louisiana. This state is filled with a lot of extremely wealthy morons who will pump a TON of money into LSU while everything else gets neglected and abandoned.

 

[Irish4life]

Initial reports were that LSU is NOT handing out a huge long term contract for a "proven" coach, so I assumed they may already have something cookin with Sumrall only b/c it makes sense logistically.

Guaranteed big money often breed complacency. We see it all the time with players, and coaches aren’t any different.

If LSU can land Sumrall with a 4 year deal at a reasonable price, bring in a competent GM to manage the roster, and frame it as a way to secure a strong coach while keeping more money available for players, fans will be far less likely to question hiring a G5 coach. Maybe it works, maybe it doesn’t - but I think it's a smarter play.

Could see Sumrall, could see taking a chance on a coordinator (Maybe a Will Stein?).

 

[Irish4life]

Embedding here so you don't have to click

"Notre Dame is overrated and sucks. Btw, let's hire the Notre Dame coach he's perfect for our program!!!" A tale as old as time

 

[SportsingHard]

lets be brutally honest: he got the extra time because of the color of his skin

Golly, Beave, let's not get sore. It's almost time for Texaco Star Theater.

 

[BleedingGold]

I’m part of a North Carolina hunting & fishing group and I can’t tell you how many times I’ve listened to members trash talk our schedule and toughness.

It’s diminished pretty much since we beat NC State and they’ve come to realize Duke, UNC, App State, and Wake Forest are going to do well to be bowl eligible.

 

[IRISHDODGER]

It's kind of amazing to me that LSU is going to eat this big buyout for Kelly now after they just ate one for Coach O about 3 years ago. Wasn't LSU (Or maybe it was just the state of Louisiana) in a hole financially like...3-5 years ago? Maybe it was farther back, I don't remember. I know the state is like $16 billion in debt or something.

They’re definitely a “welfare state” when it comes to Federal funding but their athletics budget doesn’t dip into tax dollars, etc.

 

[Dale]

If you were Penn State, Florida or LSU, would you rather hire Lane Kiffin or Kenny Dillingham + Sam Leavitt QB transfer

PSU could also be considering if Raiola follows Rhule, though that seems like not a sure thing to be hand in hand.

 

[Dale]

Golesh + Brown and Morris + Mestemaker are two more some teams will weigh heavily from the G5 level

 

[stlnd01]

I’m part of a North Carolina hunting & fishing group and I can’t tell you how many times I’ve listened to members trash talk our schedule and toughness.

It’s diminished pretty much since we beat NC State and they’ve come to realize Duke, UNC, App State, and Wake Forest are going to do well to be bowl eligible.

SEC people, I kind of get it. but I do not understand how or why ACC people talk shit about our scheduling when we routinely rout almost that entire conference.

 

[Bane]

If you were Penn State, Florida or LSU, would you rather hire Lane Kiffin or Kenny Dillingham + Sam Leavitt QB transfer

PSU could also be considering if Raiola follows Rhule, though that seems like not a sure thing to be hand in hand.

Having insight into Gator nation, I can tell you they will take Lane 7 days a week and twice on Saturdays.

 

[Irish4life]

If you were Penn State, Florida or LSU, would you rather hire Lane Kiffin or Kenny Dillingham + Sam Leavitt QB transfer

PSU could also be considering if Raiola follows Rhule, though that seems like not a sure thing to be hand in hand.

For Florida and LSU Kiffin, for PSU Dillingham + Leavitt transfers in

 

[Irish4life]

Golesh + Brown and Morris + Mestemaker are two more some teams will weigh heavily from the G5 level

Morris + Mestemaker to Oklahoma State just feels so obvious to me

 

[Jiggafini19Deux]

I live in Louisiana. This state is filled with a lot of extremely wealthy morons who will pump a TON of money into LSU while everything else gets neglected and abandoned.

From sea to shining sea.

 

[Jiggafini19Deux]

If you were Penn State, Florida or LSU, would you rather hire Lane Kiffin or Kenny Dillingham + Sam Leavitt QB transfer

PSU could also be considering if Raiola follows Rhule, though that seems like not a sure thing to be hand in hand.

Dillingham has pretty deep ties to ASU. We'll see if those deep ties go deeper than some of the pockets that are going to try and pry him out of there.

The more I read about him, the more he'd be at the top of my list right now if I'm hiring a coach. Again, that's based on more perception than anything else.