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stlnd01

stlnd01

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SportsingHard said:
We need not look at Texas without Sark. We can just look at Sark. He's performed well in 2 of 12 seasons as a head coach. And no, "any other SEC team" is your phrase, not mine.

This is extremely simple. Sark-Texas might fair well in any given SEC season. They might not. People who assume they're going to be Kirby-Georgia or Saban-Bama are silly people.
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No one's assuming that every Bama coach will be Saban or every Georgia coach will be Kirby (except maybe the irrational edges of their fan bases). Elite programs make bad hires all the time. But there are about eight programs in the sport that - when it comes to resources, recruiting turf, profile, fan base, history, etc. - are basically forever royalty, where competing for titles is expected and if you win one you're immortal (the ultimate goal of most elite football coaches).

Alabama, Georgia and Texas are among those. Mizzou is simply not.
 
SportsingHard

SportsingHard

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Dale said:
What does Sark at USC have to do with Texas? You’re just kinda saying things, including odd goal posts and parameters. Texas is in the top tier of SEC jobs. No question about it.
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I may have missed the starting point of the conversation. I thought stl was talking about program tiers. If the conversation is about job tiers, Texas goes up and Georgia/Alabama go down. Georgia canned their greatest coach of all-time to hire Kirby, and following in Saban's footsteps will never be fun, even after DeBoer is gone.
 
SportsingHard

SportsingHard

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stlnd01 said:
No one's assuming that every Bama coach will be Saban or every Georgia coach will be Kirby (except maybe the irrational edges of their fan bases). Elite programs make bad hires all the time. But there are about eight programs in the sport that - when it comes to resources, recruiting turf, profile, fan base, history, etc. - are basically forever royalty, where competing for titles is expected and if you win one you're immortal (the ultimate goal of most elite football coaches).

Alabama, Georgia and Texas are among those. Mizzou is simply not.
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As I just told Dale above, I was confused about the heart of the conversation. We disagree about what makes one royal or immortal, however. Winning the hard way is far more impressive than winning the easy way. If you think Saban wouldn't be seen as a god winning seven national championships at Mizzou, you're very much mistaken.
 
TorontoGold

TorontoGold

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SportsingHard said:
We need not look at Texas without Sark. We can just look at Sark. He's performed well in 2 of 12 seasons as a head coach. And no, "any other SEC team" is your phrase, not mine.

This is extremely simple. Sark-Texas might fair well in any given SEC season. They might not. People who assume they're going to be Kirby-Georgia or Saban-Bama are silly people.
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Look at Sark, at Texas, with NIL. He’s done pretty well.

Your phrase was “or other”. When you don’t specify the “or other” don’t walk it back when people aren’t assuming the correct “or other”.

You’ve essentially couched it in “well any team can win! Might be good might not!”. Yeah, sure any team can win but a school like Texas is not even remotely the same as Mizzou.

Every game isn’t a 50/50 because it’s either win or lose. Sark is paid the big bucks because the standard and talent are higher than at Mizzou. You either are just arguing for the sake of it or fundamentally not understanding the differences between Texas and Mizzou.
 
SportsingHard

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TorontoGold said:
Look at Sark, at Texas, with NIL. He’s done pretty well.

Your phrase was “or other”. When you don’t specify the “or other” don’t walk it back when people aren’t assuming the correct “or other”.

You’ve essentially couched it in “well any team can win! Might be good might not!”. Yeah, sure any team can win but a school like Texas is not even remotely the same as Mizzou.

Every game isn’t a 50/50 because it’s either win or lose. Sark is paid the big bucks because the standard and talent are higher than at Mizzou. You either are just arguing for the sake of it or fundamentally not understanding the differences between Texas and Mizzou.
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If you tell me the Colts are winning the Super Bowl this year, and I say I could see the Chiefs, Lions, Rams, or other team winning it, that's not the same as saying I could see ANY other team winning it. "The field" or "some random upstart team" is not the same as "the Cleveland Browns."

#15 Mizzou and #22 Texas are two teams in a strong position with respect to NIL, as far as I understand. If we're projecting SEC programs over the next decade, those two should be in the very populated hunt for glory.
 
stlnd01

stlnd01

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SportsingHard said:
As I just told Dale above, I was confused about the heart of the conversation. We disagree about what makes one royal or immortal, however. Winning the hard way is far more impressive than winning the easy way. If you think Saban wouldn't be seen as a god winning seven national championships at Mizzou, you're very much mistaken.
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Winning at Mizzou is harder than winning at Bama, sure. But no one will ever win seven titles at Mizzou because after they (somehow) win the first one - or even win a playoff game for that matter - one of the actually elite programs will hire them away and they’d take it in a heartbeat. Is my point.
 
Bane

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SportsingHard said:
As I just told Dale above, I was confused about the heart of the conversation. We disagree about what makes one royal or immortal, however. Winning the hard way is far more impressive than winning the easy way. If you think Saban wouldn't be seen as a god winning seven national championships at Mizzou, you're very much mistaken.
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Winning the hard way is unsustainable and doesn't happen. There's a reason Mizzou doesn't win national titles and Alabama does.

Also, it might be harder to win at Missouri but in many ways it's a much easier job than Alabama. This is the heart of the conversation around why people don't think Cig would leave IU or people speculate DeBoer would leave Bama for PSU: the expectations are much lower and thus the stress is less and the job is effectively easier. People use this to question why Lane would leave OM for UF. It's a reasonable way to think, but these high level coaches aren't reasonable people and are wired very differently.
 
TorontoGold

TorontoGold

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SportsingHard said:
If you tell me the Colts are winning the Super Bowl this year, and I say I could see the Chiefs, Lions, Rams, or other team winning it, that's not the same as saying I could see ANY other team winning it. "The field" or "some random upstart team" is not the same as "the Cleveland Browns."

#15 Mizzou and #22 Texas are two teams in a strong position with respect to NIL, as far as I understand. If we're projecting SEC programs over the next decade, those two should be in the very populated hunt for glory.
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What? Texas has accumulated talent at rates that literally only a few other schools can match. In the next decade you and everyone else will be shocked if a non-Bama/UGA/LSU SEC school is more successful than them.

It’s like saying that you wouldn’t be shocked if Iowa ends up being more successful than Michigan in the next decade. You’d be an absolute moron for making that claim.
 
SportsingHard

SportsingHard

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Bane said:
Winning the hard way is unsustainable and doesn't happen. There's a reason Mizzou doesn't win national titles and Alabama does.

Also, it might be harder to win at Missouri but in many ways it's a much easier job than Alabama. This is the heart of the conversation around why people don't think Cig would leave IU or people speculate DeBoer would leave Bama for PSU: the expectations are much lower and thus the stress is less and the job is effectively easier. People use this to question why Lane would leave OM for UF. It's a reasonable way to think, but these high level coaches aren't reasonable people and are wired very differently.
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Winning the hard way is only unsustainable because it becomes much easier to win once you gain prestige.
 
SportsingHard

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TorontoGold said:
What? Texas has accumulated talent at rates that literally only a few other schools can match. In the next decade you and everyone else will be shocked if a non-Bama/UGA/LSU SEC school is more successful than them.

It’s like saying that you wouldn’t be shocked if Iowa ends up being more successful than Michigan in the next decade. You’d be an absolute moron for making that claim.
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No, I'm not a retard, I've been watching CFB for five decades, and I'm aware of history before I was born. I've watched Florida, Tennessee, Oklahoma, and Auburn dominate college football, I know Georgia only had one very weak mythical national championship team between 1892 and 2020, and I know Texas is currently the third-ranked team in their own state with an excellent chance of maintaining that position over the next decade due in significant part to the sleeping giant that is Texas Tech.

Expect the unexpected. At least, that's what the last 156 years of CFB has taught anyone who will listen.

One deep-pockets fan can turn around any program virtually instantly at this point.
 
IRISHDODGER

IRISHDODGER

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stlnd01 said:
Winning at Mizzou is harder than winning at Bama, sure. But no one will ever win seven titles at Mizzou because after they (somehow) win the first one - or even win a playoff game for that matter - one of the actually elite programs will hire them away and they’d take it in a heartbeat. Is my point.
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Regardless, it’s crazy the schedules that Mizzou continues to pull. They consistently get a cakewalk schedule in the toughest conference in America. Ironic considering Missouri is not in the southeastern part of the US
 
TorontoGold

TorontoGold

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SportsingHard said:
No, I'm not a retard, I've been watching CFB for five decades, and I'm aware of history before I was born. I've watched Florida, Tennessee, Oklahoma, and Auburn dominate college football, I know Georgia only had one very weak mythical national championship team between 1892 and 2020, and I know Texas is currently the third-ranked team in their own state with an excellent chance of maintaining that position over the next decade due in significant part to the sleeping giant that is Texas Tech.

Expect the unexpected. At least, that's what the last 156 years of CFB has taught anyone who will listen.

One deep-pockets fan can turn around any program virtually instantly at this point.
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You absolutely are if you believe that you wouldn’t be shocked to see Ole Miss or Mizzou have more success in a decade than Texas. Those schools are looking at losing their head coaches to programs who don’t have the same talent or resources that Texas has.

Team talent rankings has Texas further away from Ole Miss or Mizzou than those teams are to Vanderbilt. You has lots and lots of money like TTU? Texas.

If Texas with more talent and more money than those teams you mentioned does not out perform them over a decade, then it is shocking. If you do not believe that then I would suggest you shouldn’t operate heavy machinery.
 
SportsingHard

SportsingHard

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TorontoGold said:
You absolutely are if you believe that you wouldn’t be shocked to see Ole Miss or Mizzou have more success in a decade than Texas. Those schools are looking at losing their head coaches to programs who don’t have the same talent or resources that Texas has.

Team talent rankings has Texas further away from Ole Miss or Mizzou than those teams are to Vanderbilt. You has lots and lots of money like TTU? Texas.

If Texas with more talent and more money than those teams you mentioned does not out perform them over a decade, then it is shocking. If you do not believe that then I would suggest you shouldn’t operate heavy machinery.
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Mr. Dumb Moron seems fitting. I'm gonna let you go.
 
E

EvilleIrish

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Just playing devils advocate here. Is it possible Marcus has been at least putting out feelers? I’m not sure we can keep saying all of these things are baseless since there has been a lot of smoke.
 
Dale

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irishff1014 said:
I don't recall this many big time jobs open. The possibility of more jobs opening up due to other head coaches accepting these big jobs. This is insane.
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Texas isn’t opening but it’s because teams held off last year due to uncertainty with rev share. PSU is really only shock so far. Jobs like Arkansas and Florida are just a year delayed
 
E

EvilleIrish

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IrishLax said:
What, specifically, are you calling smoke?
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Just a lot of different openings he is being mentioned for. I guess it's possible they're all just pulling something out of nothing, but have to wonder too if his agent is putting stuff out there as well.
 
IRISHbluehen

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EvilleIrish said:
Just a lot of different openings he is being mentioned for. I guess it's possible they're all just pulling something out of nothing, but have to wonder too if his agent is putting stuff out there as well.
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Hes one of the brightest young coaches in the country. Of course he is on everybody's wishlist. Only jobs open that would be suitable are PSU and Florida and both were told no thank you immediately.
 
IrishLax

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EvilleIrish said:
Just a lot of different openings he is being mentioned for. I guess it's possible they're all just pulling something out of nothing, but have to wonder too if his agent is putting stuff out there as well.
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I feel pretty confident saying that the risks are only:
1. NFL
2. Ohio State
3. ND being dumb

In that order. His agent fields calls, which is his job, but him leaving for another college job is not in the cards as long as ND is compensating him correctly and giving him what he thinks he needs to win. I would argue that Freeman actually does *less* entertaining of overtures than 90%+ of CFB coaches. Certainly less than Kelly did. The demand for him is because he's awesome and an attractive candidate, not because he is out there actively testing the waters.
 
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