Coaches Poll Top 25 (ND #7)

Irish YJ

Southsida
Messages
25,888
Reaction score
1,444
So if ND was undefeated and went on the road and just beat #2 Oregon and Oregon was still ranked ahead of us, you would think that is a fair ranking?

So it would look like this:

ND (5-0), win over #2 Oregon
Oregon (4-1), loss to Notre Dame

You'd be ok with ND being ranked behind Oregon?

It would be kind of like when ND got screwed out of the title game in '93 with a win over FSU...except worse because ND and FSU had the same record. In this case AZ has a better record than Oregon AND a win over them and are still ranked behind them?

Or if, hypothetically, we beat UNC next weekend and go down to Tallahassee and beat #1 FSU and have a better record than them...it would be ok for them to still be ranked ahead of us (after losing to us) because "any given Saturday"?

It will all sort itself out by seasons end so it doesn't really matter but right now...those rankings are BS. Way too much stock is put into the preseason rankings and way too little stock is put into the on field results. Just my opinion.

I have a problem with the vault. I also think AZ should be ranked above OR (never said I had a problem with that). Was AZ underrated preseason, probably. Was OR overrated preseason, probably. Did AZ luck out and have a good game while OR had a bad day, maybe. My point is, reality is a unranked team beating a 2nd ranked team, on one Saturday does not mean the unranked team should vault up 16 places. It also does not mean at number 2 should fall 16 places. We're not half way through the season, and there is time enough to auto-correct these preseason imbalances. To try and correct them, or think they will be corrected in one week is a bit utopian to me.
 

irishog77

NOT SINBAD's NEPHEW
Messages
7,441
Reaction score
2,206
If ND goes undefeated, there is nothing to worry about. It's true this year and every year. An undefeated ND won't be passed up by FOUR other teams by the selection committee (99% of the time, at least).

The issue I'm concerned about is 1-loss (or 2, depending on the year and other teams in contention). It's still tough to believe ND will go undefeated (not because they aren't good or can't beat every team left on their schedule...but because it's so tough to go undefeated). At this point, I think we, as ND fans, should hope for further cannibalization in the sec west and for the pac-12 to do well, but everybody have 2 or 3 losses.

The sec is going to get every benefit of the doubt. So maybe we should want, say, auburn to win out and leave every other sec team with 2-losses. The fewer 1-loss teams that are out there, the better the chances are for ND to make the playoff. I would be shocked if the Mississippi schools don't finish without at least 2 losses, a piece, or for a&m to not lose again. Utah and Arizona's wins this week, while exciting and helping to ease the path for ND climbing in the rankings, may actually turn out to hurt ND in the long run. We need Stanford, usc, and asu all to be good teams.



**Quick sidenote-- We've heard for years, in defense of others, how when it comes to rankings, the quality of loss matters. It mattered in the rankings with ND last year losing to Pitt. It certainly mattered when Oklahoma State lost to Iowa State. How bout Georgia being ranked as high as they are...with a loss to 3-loss south carolina?? Pathetic.
 

gkIrish

Greek God
Messages
13,184
Reaction score
1,004
If ND goes undefeated, there is nothing to worry about. It's true this year and every year. An undefeated ND won't be passed up by FOUR other teams by the selection committee (99% of the time, at least).

The issue I'm concerned about is 1-loss (or 2, depending on the year and other teams in contention). It's still tough to believe ND will go undefeated (not because they aren't good or can't beat every team left on their schedule...but because it's so tough to go undefeated). At this point, I think we, as ND fans, should hope for further cannibalization in the sec west and for the pac-12 to do well, but everybody have 2 or 3 losses.

This is what I'm concerned about too. If we lose to FSU I feel like we will plummet in the rankings back to the mid teens. Meanwhile Alabama loses and drops 4 spots. The loser of Ole Miss/Miss. St. will drop 4-5 spots, etc.
 

Irish YJ

Southsida
Messages
25,888
Reaction score
1,444
**Quick sidenote-- We've heard for years, in defense of others, how when it comes to rankings, the quality of loss matters. It mattered in the rankings with ND last year losing to Pitt. It certainly mattered when Oklahoma State lost to Iowa State. How bout Georgia being ranked as high as they are...with a loss to 3-loss south carolina?? Pathetic.[/QUOTE]

Just horrible. SC lost to Miz, who lost to IU... Go Hoosiers. Hope Miz lays one on UGA next week.
 

jspags10pg

Active member
Messages
937
Reaction score
199
I have a problem with the vault. I also think AZ should be ranked above OR (never said I had a problem with that). Was AZ underrated preseason, probably. Was OR overrated preseason, probably. Did AZ luck out and have a good game while OR had a bad day, maybe. My point is, reality is a unranked team beating a 2nd ranked team, on one Saturday does not mean the unranked team should vault up 16 places. It also does not mean at number 2 should fall 16 places. We're not half way through the season, and there is time enough to auto-correct these preseason imbalances. To try and correct them, or think they will be corrected in one week is a bit utopian to me.

I agree with you to an extent. It was a huge leap for AZ. But they should be ranked ahead of Oregon one way or the other. Big vault by AZ...big drop by Oregon...I don't care. It doesn't make any sense why TCU or AZ are still behind Oklahoma and Oregon, respectively. Better record than each team and a win over them and still ranked behind. Makes literally no sense to me.

Serious thanks for a respectful debate tho. Hate it when people get personal with stuff like this on a forum. Reps your way if I don't have to "spread it around".

EDIT: aaand I have to spread it around haha.
 

Irish YJ

Southsida
Messages
25,888
Reaction score
1,444
Btw isn't AP rankings more important than Coaches Poll?

IMO, less important with the playoffs. I would think the selection committee would pay more attention to coaches than idiot reporters. Maybe I'm just naïve.
 

Irish YJ

Southsida
Messages
25,888
Reaction score
1,444
I agree with you to an extent. It was a huge leap for AZ. But they should be ranked ahead of Oregon one way or the other. Big vault by AZ...big drop by Oregon...I don't care. It doesn't make any sense why TCU or AZ are still behind Oklahoma and Oregon, respectively. Better record than each team and a win over them and still ranked behind. Makes literally no sense to me.

Serious thanks for a respectful debate tho. Hate it when people get personal with stuff like this on a forum. Reps your way if I don't have to "spread it around".

That's your flaw. You are combining logic with CFB polls :).

You're welcome, and I feel ya (about some of the debate being less than friendly around here). Reps back at ya.
 

Veritate Duce Progredi

A man gotta have a code
Messages
9,358
Reaction score
5,352
the jumps by both Miss teams, TCU, and AZ are hilarious IMHO....

I think the first 6-7 weeks are the time to see these kinds of jumps. They help make up for poor pre-season ranking and allow teams, that come out of the gate with steam, to climb.

Teams shouldn't be penalized for poor pre-season rankings. And if we believe that, then top 25 should be most malleable around week 2-3 and slowly harden until end of season. It should be very difficult for a team to make big jumps in week 12-14.

All of those teams had big wins over big programs, time will tell if any of them were overrated.
 

irishog77

NOT SINBAD's NEPHEW
Messages
7,441
Reaction score
2,206
If the exact circumstances and game played on Saturday occurred, except substitute, say, georgia for ND, Stanford would have fallen 2, maybe 3 spots.

#factsoflife
 

Irish YJ

Southsida
Messages
25,888
Reaction score
1,444
If the exact circumstances and game played on Saturday occurred, except substitute, say, georgia for ND, Stanford would have fallen 2, maybe 3 spots.

#factsoflife

troof

facts-of-life.jpg
 

ARALOU

Well-known member
Messages
1,743
Reaction score
140
I put the Irish at 8th at least. At this point they are winning but not flawlessly. Not many clearly dominant teams up to this point. Auburn was impressive as was A&M a few weeks back but Carolina has proven to be suspect. Georgia is impressive but with a loss to a 2 loss Carolina team as it turns out. If the Irish beat FSU that should put them in the top 2-4. Until then none of this really matters. Just have to stay in the top 8, in my opinion.

The thing I have a real problem with is the huge vaults by certain teams based on one win. Missouri is basicly ranked in the top 25, having beat one decent team and lost to a decent team. The other big jumps by certain teams is BS. Even Bama being ranked where they are is BS.

I think it should be Auburn, FSU, Ole Miss, then the rest, ND, Miss St, Baylor, TCU or Arizona, maybe.
 

Redbar

Well-known member
Messages
3,531
Reaction score
806
This is what I'm concerned about too. If we lose to FSU I feel like we will plummet in the rankings back to the mid teens. Meanwhile Alabama loses and drops 4 spots. The loser of Ole Miss/Miss. St. will drop 4-5 spots, etc.

The last few weeks I have been conducting an informal unscientific observation of how the top SEC schools fare when they win and lose...this week Bama and TAMU lose and collectively fall 12 spots; the Miss schools win and move up 17 spots collectively. Net gain for the $EC 5 spots. Do this week in and out and couple it with the fact that they don't play anyone out of conference that should beat them and you will see the $EC bias quantified.
 

irishog77

NOT SINBAD's NEPHEW
Messages
7,441
Reaction score
2,206
One of my favorite all-time SNL skits was when Michael J. Fox hosted and they had former child stars running a crime ring...and Chris Farley played Mindy Cohn.
 

gkIrish

Greek God
Messages
13,184
Reaction score
1,004
The last few weeks I have been conducting an informal unscientific observation of how the top SEC schools fare when they win and lose...this week Bama and TAMU lose and collectively fall 12 spots; the Miss schools win and move up 17 spots collectively. Net gain for the $EC 5 spots. Do this week in and out and couple it with the fact that they don't play anyone out of conference that should beat them and you will see the $EC bias quantified.

Please share the results at the end of the season.
 

IrishYYC

GO IRISH
Messages
367
Reaction score
8
It's not really that surprising as I had a feeling that both Mississippi teams would jump us.

I was telling Rhode Irish in the live chat after our game ended that this exact scenario would occur.

It's the SEC man. There's such a bias out there for this conference it's ridiculous.

I know if ND just takes care of their business then everything will work out.

It's just frustrating seeing teams that far behind jump us. It's like we just hung on to beat some FCS team.
 

IrishSteelhead

All Flair, No Substance
Messages
11,114
Reaction score
4,686
It will be very interesting to see how they justify FSU over ND if we beat them and then dump a game against ASU or Louisville.
 

IrishJayhawk

Rock Chalk
Messages
7,181
Reaction score
464
It's not really that surprising as I had a feeling that both Mississippi teams would jump us.

I was telling Rhode Irish in the live chat after our game ended that this exact scenario would occur.

It's the SEC man. There's such a bias out there for this conference it's ridiculous.

I know if ND just takes care of their business then everything will work out.

It's just frustrating seeing teams that far behind jump us. It's like we just hung on to beat some FCS team.

I think that both Mississippi schools have better resumes than us. Certainly Ole Miss does after taking out Bama. We had a great close win against a good team in Stanford. We slaughtered a very bad Michigan team and beat Rice without a problem. We also won in very unimpressive fashion against two other mediocre teams. But our signature win isn't as impressive as Ole Miss and probably not as impressive as State's win against A&M (though I could hear debate on that one).

I guess I don't understand the complaining.
 
Last edited:

wizards8507

Well-known member
Messages
20,660
Reaction score
2,661
The SEC West is 22-0 against out of conference opponents. They've only lost to each other. That's not bias, that's a fact.

You guys have a ridiculous double standard. You don't like "leap frogging," but I can't wait to see everyone bitch if we beat Florida State and we don't leapfrog Baylor. No no... Notre Dame is allowed to leap teams but NO ONE else. Yes, Stanford is a quality opponent but they're not on the same level as Alabama or A&M.

You all think we're underrated and the haters think we're over rated. I'll take that as solid evidence that we're appropriately rated.
 

Circa

Conspire to keep It real
Messages
8,000
Reaction score
818
Tired of Bama being the measuring stick for good teams and TAM was overrated to begin with! Mississippi can suck a fat 1<div style="max-width: 500px;" id="_giphy_VVeTSlRYqbjlm"></div><script>var _giphy = _giphy || []; _giphy.push({id: "VVeTSlRYqbjlm",w: 500, h: 500});var g = document.createElement("script"); g.type = "text/javascript"; g.async = true;g.src = ("https:" == document.location.protocol ? "https://" : "http://") + "giphy.com/static/js/widgets/embed.js";var s = document.getElementsByTagName("script")[0]; s.parentNode.insertBefore(g, s);</script>
 

Huntr

24 Karat Shamrock
Messages
7,504
Reaction score
10,427
Just can't get worked up over shit that doesn't matter.

All ND has to do is win. The rest will shake out.
 

Circa

Conspire to keep It real
Messages
8,000
Reaction score
818
The SEC West is 22-0 against out of conference opponents. They've only lost to each other. That's not bias, that's a fact.

You guys have a ridiculous double standard. You don't like "leap frogging," but I can't wait to see everyone bitch if we beat Florida State and we don't leapfrog Baylor. No no... Notre Dame is allowed to leap teams but NO ONE else. Yes, Stanford is a quality opponent but they're not on the same level as Alabama or A&M.

You all think we're underrated and the haters think we're over rated. I'll take that as solid evidence that we're appropriately rated.

Really? I would have loved seeing bama come to the Bend yesterday and play through that cold rain. <div style="max-width: 500px;" id="_giphy_VG85Ql4eeh9YY"></div><script>var _giphy = _giphy || []; _giphy.push({id: "VG85Ql4eeh9YY",w: 213, h: 284});var g = document.createElement("script"); g.type = "text/javascript"; g.async = true;g.src = ("https:" == document.location.protocol ? "https://" : "http://") + "giphy.com/static/js/widgets/embed.js";var s = document.getElementsByTagName("script")[0]; s.parentNode.insertBefore(g, s);</script>
 

IrishJayhawk

Rock Chalk
Messages
7,181
Reaction score
464
Tired of Bama being the measuring stick for good teams and TAM was overrated to begin with!

I am also tired of Bama being the measuring stick. But they are the most talented team in the country year in and year out (See every recruiting source...not just ESPN). They also have one of the best coaches ever.

You get to be tired of it, but that doesn't mean it's not appropriate.

Remember, for example, what they did to us in that championship game...
 

MNIrishman

Well-known member
Messages
2,532
Reaction score
481
I think that both Mississippi schools have better resumes than us. Certainly Ole Miss does after taking out Bama. We had a great close win against a good team in Stanford. We slaughtered a very bad Michigan team and beat Rice without a problem. We also won in very unimpressive fashion against two other mediocre teams. But our signature win isn't as impressive as Ole Miss and probably not as impressive as State's win against A&M (though I could hear debate on that one).

I guess I don't understand the complaining.

You're assuming without evidence that the rankings of the SEC teams means more than dick. I am not impressed with a win over an overranked big 12 bottom feeder-turned-SEC-darling overnight. Ole Miss was impressive, but this year I'd take Stanford over Bama in a head to head. I'd say the same about Michigan State over Bama. SEC means you get extra points everywhere in the rankings. It's asinine and even when exposed, it's forgiven. No one lost faith in Florida as a top ten team until they got blown out by Louisville, then started the next season in the top ten, lost a bunch of SEC games (signature wins for everybody else!), then proceeded to show they didn't belong on the same field as an FCS opponent. Not. Fucking. Impressed.

Vanderbilt started this season by getting blown out by Temple. Anyone think they could make noise in any P5 conference? Because they're a 'quality win' for these 'highly ranked' teams that 'deserve to be above us.'

I grew up believing William Tecumseh Sherman was a hero. I still do.
 

Circa

Conspire to keep It real
Messages
8,000
Reaction score
818
The SEC West is 22-0 against out of conference opponents. They've only lost to each other. That's not bias, that's a fact.

You guys have a ridiculous double standard. You don't like "leap frogging," but I can't wait to see everyone bitch if we beat Florida State and we don't leapfrog Baylor. No no... Notre Dame is allowed to leap teams but NO ONE else. Yes, Stanford is a quality opponent but they're not on the same level as Alabama or A&M.

You all think we're underrated and the haters think we're over rated. I'll take that as solid evidence that we're appropriately rated.

You're assuming without evidence that the rankings of the SEC teams means more than dick. I am not impressed with a win over an overranked big 12 bottom feeder-turned-SEC-darling overnight. Ole Miss was impressive, but this year I'd take Stanford over Bama in a head to head. I'd say the same about Michigan State over Bama. SEC means you get extra points everywhere in the rankings. It's asinine and even when exposed, it's forgiven. No one lost faith in Florida as a top ten team until they got blown out by Louisville, then started the next season in the top ten, lost a bunch of SEC games (signature wins for everybody else!), then proceeded to show they didn't belong on the same field as an FCS opponent. Not. Fucking. Impressed.

Vanderbilt started this season by getting blown out by Temple. Anyone think they could make noise in any P5 conference? Because they're a 'quality win' for these 'highly ranked' teams that 'deserve to be above us.'

I grew up believing William Tecumseh Sherman was a hero. I still do.

I agree and also agree..
 

IrishJayhawk

Rock Chalk
Messages
7,181
Reaction score
464
You're assuming without evidence that the rankings of the SEC teams means more than dick. I am not impressed with a win over an overranked big 12 bottom feeder-turned-SEC-darling overnight. Ole Miss was impressive, but this year I'd take Stanford over Bama in a head to head. I'd say the same about Michigan State over Bama. SEC means you get extra points everywhere in the rankings. It's asinine and even when exposed, it's forgiven. No one lost faith in Florida as a top ten team until they got blown out by Louisville, then started the next season in the top ten, lost a bunch of SEC games (signature wins for everybody else!), then proceeded to show they didn't belong on the same field as an FCS opponent. Not. Fucking. Impressed.

Vanderbilt started this season by getting blown out by Temple. Anyone think they could make noise in any P5 conference? Because they're a 'quality win' for these 'highly ranked' teams that 'deserve to be above us.'

I grew up believing William Tecumseh Sherman was a hero. I still do.

A&M is not the same team they were when they played in the big 12. Not by a long shot. New system, better players, and much more team speed.

And there's just nothing on Stanford's resume to lead me to think that they'd stay in the game against Alabama.
 
Top