Chicago White Sox... The thread.

MacIrish75

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What actual value does Sosa bring other than "he's not Moncada"?
We don’t know, but given his potential I’d rather see what he could do consistently over the course of 100 games than continue to deal with Yoan’s continual injuries.
 

Jiggafini19Deux

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We don’t know, but given his potential I’d rather see what he could do consistently over the course of 100 games than continue to deal with Yoan’s continual injuries.
So he's not Moncada.

Moncada is not going back to second base and replacing him at third with Jake Burger every day is defensive suicide. Even a front office as inept as this one isn't going that route. The core of Moncada, Anderson, Eloy, Robert has been injured more often than not since being put together. That's a different issue than actual performance and ability to handle a position on a day to day basis as a regular everyday MLB starter. They drafted their way into this situation of Vaughn, Burger and Sheets. None of them are outfielders. They're DH/1B types and you have three of them. That's Rick Hahn working in the kitchen. The meal is a group young white dudes who are the same guy and a group of Cubans that can't stay off the D.L. For desert? An expensive bullpen that has been getting shelled.

Sosa is a slow twitch athlete that doesn't have any huge tools. He's a role player that has above average contact at the plate and doesn't particularly care for drawing walks. You can play him every day and bat him ninth, no higher for the love of God, and pitchers will feed him a steady diet of sliders off the plate that he will swing at and miss consistently. He's Kelly Gruber.
 
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NDFAN2008

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This is what I'd do if I were the Sox. Trade Anderson, Eloy, Moncada. Anderson should net you 3-4 good prospects. Trade Hendricks and Giolito at the deadline. Sign Cease to an extension. They have some good young arms in the minors just need them to get experience. Long term starting pitchers. 1. Cease, 2. Kopech, 3. Davis Martin. Then fill the 4 and 5 spots with some of their minor league guys. Starting position players for next year.
1B. Vaughn
2B. Sosa
SS. Colson Montgomery
3B. Bryan Ramos (kid is gonna be a stud and can hit)
C. Selby (backup Perez)
LF. Benetini
C. Robert
RF. Colas
DH. Burger
You have a lot of money coming off the books after this year. Grandal, possibly Hendricks or trade him, Joe Kelly, Diekman, and a few others. Lynn is under a club option 18 Million I'd try to trade him or don't pick it up. You can use the money to sign 2 more solid starting pitchers or go after Ohtani but Jerry doesn't know how to run a team.
 

Jiggafini19Deux

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Often injured and owed money down the road. Who is going to want them and what are you getting in return?

Nobody and nothing is likely the answer. This isn't a braintrust that is going to pull any fast ones on anybody. They got to rebuild their own failed rebuild and are probably going to get to do it again. What leverage can they possibly have over any other front offices right now?
 

Jimmy3Putt

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This is what I'd do if I were the Sox. Trade Anderson, Eloy, Moncada. Anderson should net you 3-4 good prospects. Trade Hendricks and Giolito at the deadline. Sign Cease to an extension. They have some good young arms in the minors just need them to get experience. Long term starting pitchers. 1. Cease, 2. Kopech, 3. Davis Martin. Then fill the 4 and 5 spots with some of their minor league guys. Starting position players for next year.
1B. Vaughn
2B. Sosa
SS. Colson Montgomery
3B. Bryan Ramos (kid is gonna be a stud and can hit)
C. Selby (backup Perez)
LF. Benetini
C. Robert
RF. Colas
DH. Burger
You have a lot of money coming off the books after this year. Grandal, possibly Hendricks or trade him, Joe Kelly, Diekman, and a few others. Lynn is under a club option 18 Million I'd try to trade him or don't pick it up. You can use the money to sign 2 more solid starting pitchers or go after Ohtani but Jerry doesn't know how to run a team.


They need to clean house in the front office if it's time for another rebuild.
Why let the same idiots rebuild for the tenth time?
 

chisea03

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Often injured and owed money down the road. Who is going to want them and what are you getting in return?

Nobody and nothing is likely the answer. This isn't a braintrust that is going to pull any fast ones on anybody. They got to rebuild their own failed rebuild and are probably going to get to do it again. What leverage can they possibly have over any other front offices right now?
San Diego?
 

Jiggafini19Deux

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They need to clean house in the front office if it's time for another rebuild.
Why let the same idiots rebuild for the tenth time?
Jerry-Reinsdorf-White-Sox-GettyImages-1315845972.jpg
 

Jiggafini19Deux

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0-5-1 in series so far this year. They have yet to win two games in a row.

They don't get on base, they don't get people out and they don't pick up the ball.
 

MacIrish75

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Honestly, I have no desire to drive to Chicago from NE Indiana to support the franchise this year. I can take my whole family to the FW TinCaps to get my baseball fix for the same cost of taking just my son and I to a Sox game.

All that to say, I’ll absolutely end up attending 2-3 games before September…but I won’t be happy about it.
 

ACamp1900

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I got rafted by the Sox the rtts 23. I’m sure you’ll all be happy to hear I lead y’all clowns to a division title in my first year up,…. Fun uni combos for sure.
 

Southside Sully

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Cespedes and the new cuban will be up by June at this rate. Honestly how many total games have TA, Yoan, eloy, Robert and Grandal played together in the last 3 season? Serious question.

Also clevinger was such a dumb signing.
 

Wild Bill

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Cespedes and the new cuban will be up by June at this rate. Honestly how many total games have TA, Yoan, eloy, Robert and Grandal played together in the last 3 season? Serious question.

Also clevinger was such a dumb signing.

It's rare to see 3 of those 5 in the lineup.
 

Southside Sully

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Cespedes and the new cuban will be up by June at this rate. Honestly how many total games have TA, Yoan, eloy, Robert and Grandal played together in the last 3 season? Serious question.

Also clevinger was such a dumb signing.
To answer my own question as of last August, only 37 GAMES since 2020.. That is un fucking believable, and unacceptable.

Also, here is a really good article about Sox IL time against other teams and so on. Good read.
Are the White Sox soft? | Sox On 35th
 

Jiggafini19Deux

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7-15. Same record as Cincinnati. Only Colorado, KC and Oakland are worse.

Still have not won a series this season nor have they managed to win 2 games in a row.

Just really grim at this point.
 

Southside Sully

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It is really grim. The fact that Hahn hasn't done anything for this bullpen is beyond me. There are some veteran arms that are sitting out there that are worth a gamble to see if they can do anything. ReyLo has a lot of tread on the tires and were 20 games in. Please just DFA clevinger already.
 

Jiggafini19Deux

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It is really grim. The fact that Hahn hasn't done anything for this bullpen is beyond me. There are some veteran arms that are sitting out there that are worth a gamble to see if they can do anything. ReyLo has a lot of tread on the tires and were 20 games in. Please just DFA clevinger already.
The situation is pretty bad. There really is no help in the minors because their farm system is so bad.

 

Southside Sully

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The situation is pretty bad. There really is no help in the minors because their farm system is so bad.


Very true. How they haven’t gutted their domestic, and amateur scouting departments is beyond me. They consistently can’t draft, or identify homegrown talent before they trade away (TA the exception). Since 2006 they have been abismal in these areas. Also, they are severely behind most teams in their analytics department as well. Recipe for shit sandwich

 

SouthSideChiDomer

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Very true. How they haven’t gutted their domestic, and amateur scouting departments is beyond me. They consistently can’t draft, or identify homegrown talent before they trade away (TA the exception). Since 2006 they have been abismal in these areas. Also, they are severely behind most teams in their analytics department as well. Recipe for shit sandwich


They don't fire them because this is how Jerry wants to run the team. He doesn't think 14 year olds are worth the big contracts, so we stay out of that part of the international market. We live on late developers and Cuban exiles.

We also largely don't spend on development. Other teams had many more development staffers last time I looked. I mean, its even down to the fact that we didn't have a second rookie league, AZL, or DSL team. We had one of the lowest number of minor league affiliates in the league.

It all comes down to Reinsdorf. The man is not independently wealthy. He makes his money off this team. That means that any dollar we spend is a dollar less that he is making and it actually effects him unlike other independently wealthy owners. So he forces the team to make decisions that are penny wise and pound foolish. Its the same thing with the McCaskeys, though the cap structure in the NFL makes it less of an issue, though it shows up in other areas.
 

Jiggafini19Deux

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They don't fire them because this is how Jerry wants to run the team. He doesn't think 14 year olds are worth the big contracts, so we stay out of that part of the international market. We live on late developers and Cuban exiles.

We also largely don't spend on development. Other teams had many more development staffers last time I looked. I mean, its even down to the fact that we didn't have a second rookie league, AZL, or DSL team. We had one of the lowest number of minor league affiliates in the league.

It all comes down to Reinsdorf. The man is not independently wealthy. He makes his money off this team. That means that any dollar we spend is a dollar less that he is making and it actually effects him unlike other independently wealthy owners. So he forces the team to make decisions that are penny wise and pound foolish. Its the same thing with the McCaskeys, though the cap structure in the NFL makes it less of an issue, though it shows up in other areas.
This.

Michael Jordan and the 2005 World Series lightning in a bottle made this guy. He has a sweet deal on the stadium and delivers to shareholders. Could truly care less that the White Sox do well. If you are loyal, you have a job for life. Kenny and Rick forever.
 

Wild Bill

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They don't fire them because this is how Jerry wants to run the team. He doesn't think 14 year olds are worth the big contracts, so we stay out of that part of the international market. We live on late developers and Cuban exiles.

We also largely don't spend on development. Other teams had many more development staffers last time I looked. I mean, its even down to the fact that we didn't have a second rookie league, AZL, or DSL team. We had one of the lowest number of minor league affiliates in the league.

It all comes down to Reinsdorf. The man is not independently wealthy. He makes his money off this team. That means that any dollar we spend is a dollar less that he is making and it actually effects him unlike other independently wealthy owners. So he forces the team to make decisions that are penny wise and pound foolish. Its the same thing with the McCaskeys, though the cap structure in the NFL makes it less of an issue, though it shows up in other areas.
It certainly comes down to him but I think he is relatively wealthy even compared to other owners, though I could be wrong.

He made quite a bit of money in the 80s which allowed him to buy the team.

Their payroll is not that low - I think it's middle of the pack but on the upper half of the league. Sure, he can spend more, but the issue here has less do to with money and more to do with decision making. He could be spending the same and deliver a better product.
 

Jiggafini19Deux

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It certainly comes down to him but I think he is relatively wealthy even compared to other owners, though I could be wrong.

He made quite a bit of money in the 80s which allowed him to buy the team.

Their payroll is not that low - I think it's middle of the pack but on the upper half of the league. Sure, he can spend more, but the issue here has less do to with money and more to do with decision making. He could be spending the same and deliver a better product.
They do everything from within. Kenny was promoted from within to be GM. When he ended up being a dud, Jerry created a VP role for him and promoted Hahn to GM.

It would probably make sense to hire someone from Tampa or Cleveland that could not only build a farm system and keep payroll low but actually win something more than every 15 years. Jerry won't do that. He's got his people and that's who he takes care of. The checks keep cashing and there is no pressure on them to actually succeed.
 
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Southside Sully

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I interned for the Sox in 2004. Can confirm that outside of the people we all know, there are MANY people who have been there for 40 years. He doesn't make much change.
 

Jiggafini19Deux

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It's not like they have a grand tradition of winning things. Since the divisional expansion in 1994 they've won the Central four times. Same as Detroit. KC has only won it once. Tampa has won the East four times in their 25 years of existence and have as many non Covid AL Pennants as the White Sox do during their existence.

Kenny was drafted by the White Sox in the third round of the 1982 Draft out of Stanford. He was with the Sox from 86-89 and went from Tigers, Jays, Expos until 1991.

His front office career began in 1992 with the White Sox as a scout and by 1994 he was Jerry's special assistant. 1995 he's director of minor league operations and then in 1997 he's VP of Player Developement. He takes over as GM in October 2000 and the team had won 95 games that season. They had a farm system that most analysts said was stacked and rated at the top of baseball.

That's one hell of a trajectory for a guy that toiled with your team for four seasons as a player. He really endeared himself to Jerry. It boggles the mind, really.
 

Wild Bill

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Down 3 in the first. On pace to get swept again. Got the rays for four after this series. It's entirely possible they lose 10 straight, maybe more. Exciting start to the season.
 

Crazy Balki

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This team is unacceptably terrible.

Like, good lord, how do you remove an ancient fossil in TLR and somehow end up WORSE?

The talent on this squad is being wasted. From the bottom up, this may be the worst run organization in baseball.
 

Southside Sully

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2-11 since TA injury. He makes the team go. He needs to play 140 games. Pitching just awful, can’t hit. Wtf. Someone’s heads gonna have to roll soon
 

Jiggafini19Deux

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They can't evaluate and develop talent. Simply not a serious franchise as long as Jerry keeps cashing checks. Significant change needs to occur at the top. Must start there. New Chairman that sends Kenny, Rick and the band of merry lifers packing. Start completely fresh.

Jerry has billions and therefore can afford tremendous healthcare. He's going to live well into his 100s.
 
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