BVG Fired

[Irish Insanity]

That was the next thread I read. Timing is everything.

It's hard to sift thru 20 threads about only 2 topics.

 

[dwshade]

What don't people understand about the term "interim coach." Like a substitute teacher to get you through the rest of the year. Then you can do a search after the season.

 

[DogDaysIrish]

Hopefully his D isn't as soft and timid as BVG's.

So long as he doesn't blitz the edges every friggin' play and get gashed straight up the middle most of the day, I'm a happy boy. So sick of watching pressure not getting home.

 

[Cackalacky]

Greg Hudson seemed to have done a good job at FSU as Linebacker Coach.

 

[Junkhead]

Just thought I'd hang this here, since he can't possibly be the solution.

I heard he's on the hot seat already

 

[dmort]

Welcome to the coaching profession.Being fired is par for the course.

 

[IrishFanJMercy]

I think part of the lack of sacks is this issue. If you look at the guys around the country top 30 in sacks most of the guys are around 260 pounds or less. Majority in the 240 range. We have Rochel playing DE at 290 pounds on most teams he would be a DT. 3 of our starting DL guys are at 290 or more in weight

 

[IrishMoore1]

I hope he is. I hope he lights a fire and let's the players play. I hope he steadies, and the rights, the ship. I hope he turns this D into something that keeps him as the DC.

I hope I can make it across the border. I hope to see my friend again and shake his hand. I hope the pacific is as blue as it has been in my dreams. I hope...

 

[military_irish]

Is he related to Rock?

 

[irishog77]

I hope I can make it across the border. I hope to see my friend again and shake his hand. I hope the pacific is as blue as it has been in my dreams. I hope...

Digging a tunnel out of rock and climbing through a mile of sewage will be easier than fixing ND's D.

 

[Junkhead]

I hope I can make it across the border. I hope to see my friend again and shake his hand. I hope the pacific is as blue as it has been in my dreams. I hope...

 

[irishtrain]

Great article on the nbc side about the defense affecting everything-but-yesterday was the first game I could watch this year (I was moving) and it jumped off the screen to me in one word SELFISH. Guys acting like they did something big in a sack or tackle or breakup of a pass when you just got hammered by Texas/MSU and now Duke. The word entitlement came to mind also. Its bad to see someone lose a job but this coach had to go the way things are going but I'm not sure he was the real problem. I know they're just college kids not pros but there is something else the matter with this football program. It looks to me like a total culture change needs to take place or join the MAC. Lastly ---are you kidding me about openly criticizing Kiser he's the only guy who HAS performed.

 

[ulukinatme]

Get Les now!

If only to allow him to be in post game press conferences.

 

[BGIF]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dave_Aranda

On January 1st, 2016, it was announced that Aranda was hired to replace Kevin Steele as defensive coordinator for the LSU Tigers.[14] The move to LSU saw his starting salary nearly tripling from $520,000 to starting at $1.3 million. His contract is guaranteed for three years and is not tied to the contract of LSU head coach Les Miles.[15]

15. Badgers football: Dave Aranda nearly triples salary with move to LSU by John Hart, Wisconsin State Journal, January 3, 2016

Badgers football: Dave Aranda nearly triples salary with move to LSU | College Football | host.madison.com

 

[ulukinatme]

I think part of the lack of sacks is this issue. If you look at the guys around the country top 30 in sacks most of the guys are around 260 pounds or less. Majority in the 240 range. We have Rochel playing DE at 290 pounds on most teams he would be a DT. 3 of our starting DL guys are at 290 or more in weight

True, although he wasn't originally recruited as a 4-3 DE. Still, you would think a hefty DL like ours would help to shut down an opponent's running game. We haven't exactly been stifling there either.

Great article on the nbc side about the defense affecting everything-but-yesterday was the first game I could watch this year (I was moving) and it jumped off the screen to me in one word SELFISH. Guys acting like they did something big in a sack or tackle or breakup of a pass when you just got hammered by Texas/MSU and now Duke. The word entitlement came to mind also. Its bad to see someone lose a job but this coach had to go the way things are going but I'm not sure he was the real problem. I know they're just college kids not pros but there is something else the matter with this football program. It looks to me like a total culture change needs to take place or join the MAC. Lastly ---are you kidding me about openly criticizing Kiser he's the only guy who HAS performed.

Moving to the MAC is not the solution, although I had thought about our Independence quite a bit last night. Moving to the MAC would be a bad move though. First of all, recruiting would absolutely tank...HARD. Top 10-15 classes would fall into the 50s at least. We would lose an incredible amount of revenue as a result as well, and most likely lose the NBC contract. Lastly, you can forget about any kind of possible sustained success, because even if you do have a good coach it's only a matter of time before someone is going to snatch him up and pay him more than we'd be able to afford.

Of course, you may have been exaggerating with the whole MAC statement, which is what I suspect, but I did think quite a bit about Independence last night. These players, especially the Seniors, seemed...checked out in the game Saturday. I'm sure many of them realized their playoffs hopes were completely dashed at this point, they're never going to get there in their college careers. That's a hard pill to swallow for a program that lives by the "National Championship or bust" mantra. We have no conference championship to fall back on. However, if we went full members with the ACC that option would always be open. I don't think we'd win the championship ever year, but I imagine we could win it every 3rd or 4th year when FSU or Clemson isn't on top....at the very least. The ACC is very winnable, and it would give our guys something more to play for even after a few losses (Especially if those losses are out of conference, like the USC game).

 

[Irish#1]

Great article on the nbc side about the defense affecting everything-but-yesterday was the first game I could watch this year (I was moving) and it jumped off the screen to me in one word SELFISH. Guys acting like they did something big in a sack or tackle or breakup of a pass when you just got hammered by Texas/MSU and now Duke. The word entitlement came to mind also. Its bad to see someone lose a job but this coach had to go the way things are going but I'm not sure he was the real problem. I know they're just college kids not pros but there is something else the matter with this football program. It looks to me like a total culture change needs to take place or join the MAC. Lastly ---are you kidding me about openly criticizing Kiser he's the only guy who HAS performed.

I think you're on to something here. I said the same thing Saturday after the game.

Before we had to punt the ball back, I told my wife if we don't move the ball, Duke would come down and score to win. This team was just waiting for something bad to happen and then let it happen.

Knowing what I know about JS going back to his days working with the committees in Indy to bring major sporing events here, I would say his fingerprints are all over this. He sees what's happening, but also sees a chance to salvage the season and hang onto recruits. JS is a results oriented guy. BK & BVG have had plenty of time to make this a decent defense. I'm not sure that BK is getting fired at the end of the season, but he's on a short leash.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

Brian VanGorder is Brian Kelly’s fault.

Remember those words. Firing BVG will not fix the main problem.

I figured it out.

The reason I (and it seems many on the board) don't get you.

You are susceptible to conflation, and erroneous logic, if it is wrapped up in a nice package.

I would expect more of an Indianapolis paper . . . Then maybe not.

Starting the article off with a 'fact' like Brian Kelly has had more five loss seasons than Faust, Weis, Willingham, Davie or whom ever is just fucking stupid.

It is so stupid that a thinking person could just ignore the rest of the article.

Note : MY IRE ISN'T directed toward you NDGrad, but toward the author of this article, who happens to be living proof that journalistic integrity and method has been replaced with click journalism. (Comes in a cereal box, and guarantees the author more internet clicks.)

Back to the 'fact.' The coaches he named were lucky they had five win seasons! Some didn't! In fact, once each coach settled in, ND fans couldn't count on him to field a winning team (6-6.) Here are their records :

1964–74 Ara Parseghian 11 95 17 4 .836
1975–80 Dan Devine 6 53 16 1 .764
1981–85 Gerry Faust 5 30 26 1 .535
1986–96 Lou Holtz 11 100 30 2 .765
1997–01 Bob Davie 5 35 25 – .583
2001* George O'Leary 0 0 0 – –
2002–04 Tyrone Willingham 3 21 15 – .583
2004† Kent Baer 0 0 1 – .000
2005–09 Charlie Weis 5 35 27 – .565
2010–present Brian Kelly 5 51 21 – .708

Now, is Kelly's record at all like the coaches he was compared to in the article?

Of course not!

And that is the advantage of being able to circumvent facts anytime you want!

The problem is, when you ascribe to this kind of fantasy to avoid facts, you miss the best humor. The fact of the matter is, Brian Kelly is the best 8-5 coach in America!

See how much fun that is?

Now an interesting thesis for an article is how much of a difference Hudson can make this year, and if it is enough for Kelly to right the ship.

If not, maybe Kelly will go down. And if he goes down and fights it to the bloody end, maybe he will deserve to be put on the Faust - Weis list. But that remains to be seen.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

Respect to Kelly.

I don't know if it will come out or not, but Kelly still wanted to keep BVG. This was a decision that came from beyond even Kelly's pay grade.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

A poster on 247 said he heard Bo was called after the MSU game but wouldn't go into any more info.

Someone wanted to be a fly on the wall of a meeting with a defensive recruit; there was a big brouhaha after the MSU game. One that really interrupted the process. I don't know any of the details, but if someone told me there was a knife fight between two coaches, I wouldn't be shocked.

I will take my conversation to another thread.

Maybe the mods should close, and mercifully bury this thread?

 

[dmort]

Kizer is responsible for several of the key turnovers Saturday,so he still has to execute.He is a bright spot in the program that has many problems from both D and O lines,secondary is horrible and where are the top TE talent ?

 

[BGIF]

Kizer is responsible for several of the key turnovers Saturday,so he still has to execute.He is a bright spot in the program that has many problems from both D and O lines,secondary is horrible and where are the top TE talent ?

Academically ineligible for 2016.

 

[NDohio]

True, although he wasn't originally recruited as a 4-3 DE. Still, you would think a hefty DL like ours would help to shut down an opponent's running game. We haven't exactly been stifling there either.



Moving to the MAC is not the solution, although I had thought about our Independence quite a bit last night. Moving to the MAC would be a bad move though. First of all, recruiting would absolutely tank...HARD. Top 10-15 classes would fall into the 50s at least. We would lose an incredible amount of revenue as a result as well, and most likely lose the NBC contract. Lastly, you can forget about any kind of possible sustained success, because even if you do have a good coach it's only a matter of time before someone is going to snatch him up and pay him more than we'd be able to afford.

Of course, you may have been exaggerating with the whole MAC statement, which is what I suspect, but I did think quite a bit about Independence last night. These players, especially the Seniors, seemed...checked out in the game Saturday. I'm sure many of them realized their playoffs hopes were completely dashed at this point, they're never going to get there in their college careers. That's a hard pill to swallow for a program that lives by the "National Championship or bust" mantra. We have no conference championship to fall back on. However, if we went full members with the ACC that option would always be open. I don't think we'd win the championship ever year, but I imagine we could win it every 3rd or 4th year when FSU or Clemson isn't on top....at the very least. The ACC is very winnable, and it would give our guys something more to play for even after a few losses (Especially if those losses are out of conference, like the USC game).

I know it's not the most popular opinion, but I am definitely on this train. There are several reasons, but the one you are stating here is a big one.


If Jack came down and instructed BK to make this decision, I am really curious how BK responds to that. He seems like the kind of guy that wouldn't take that well and it may be the beginning of a tumultuous relationship between Jack and BK.

Gonna be a long and interesting season...

 

[kmoose]

True, although he wasn't originally recruited as a 4-3 DE. Still, you would think a hefty DL like ours would help to shut down an opponent's running game. We haven't exactly been stifling there either.



Moving to the MAC is not the solution, although I had thought about our Independence quite a bit last night. Moving to the MAC would be a bad move though. First of all, recruiting would absolutely tank...HARD. Top 10-15 classes would fall into the 50s at least. We would lose an incredible amount of revenue as a result as well, and most likely lose the NBC contract. Lastly, you can forget about any kind of possible sustained success, because even if you do have a good coach it's only a matter of time before someone is going to snatch him up and pay him more than we'd be able to afford.

Of course, you may have been exaggerating with the whole MAC statement, which is what I suspect, but I did think quite a bit about Independence last night. These players, especially the Seniors, seemed...checked out in the game Saturday. I'm sure many of them realized their playoffs hopes were completely dashed at this point, they're never going to get there in their college careers. That's a hard pill to swallow for a program that lives by the "National Championship or bust" mantra. We have no conference championship to fall back on. However, if we went full members with the ACC that option would always be open. I don't think we'd win the championship ever year, but I imagine we could win it every 3rd or 4th year when FSU or Clemson isn't on top....at the very least. The ACC is very winnable, and it would give our guys something more to play for even after a few losses (Especially if those losses are out of conference, like the USC game).

Not taking umbrage with anything you said, but as to the bolded.......... what ever happened to "pride"?

 

[Irish#1]

I know it's not the most popular opinion, but I am definitely on this train. There are several reasons, but the one you are stating here is a big one.


If Jack came down and instructed BK to make this decision, I am really curious how BK responds to that. He seems like the kind of guy that wouldn't take that well and it may be the beginning of a tumultuous relationship between Jack and BK.

Gonna be a long and interesting season...

We don't really know. If this came from JS and if BK was adamantly against this, I would have expected him to tender his own resignation. BK is making some good coin coaching at the most historic program in the country. Paqui may have told him, "You're making great money. I don't care if you like it or not. He's your boss and if your boss tells you to do something, as long as it's not illegal or immoral you do it." Lots of dynamics behind the scenes.

I have wondered how well things would be if purple face Kelly was still coaching?

 

[IrishLion]

Every BVG thread we've had has been merged into LAX's original BVG thread. This is now the place for all things BVG-related, which honestly should be dying out as soon as our defense looks even a little bit improved.

The only exception is the "Who Do You Want to Replace BK and BVG" thread, which doesn't really fit anywhere.

 

[Bluto]

Great article on the nbc side about the defense affecting everything-but-yesterday was the first game I could watch this year (I was moving) and it jumped off the screen to me in one word SELFISH. Guys acting like they did something big in a sack or tackle or breakup of a pass when you just got hammered by Texas/MSU and now Duke. The word entitlement came to mind also. Its bad to see someone lose a job but this coach had to go the way things are going but I'm not sure he was the real problem. I know they're just college kids not pros but there is something else the matter with this football program. It looks to me like a total culture change needs to take place or join the MAC. Lastly ---are you kidding me about openly criticizing Kiser he's the only guy who HAS performed.

I think you're onto something here as well and one could argue its roots can be traced back to the 2011 recruiting class. If you go back and look at it there's a bunch of talent but there seemed to be way too many me first guys/knuckleheads in that class at key positions based on issues in the classroom (Golson, Williams, Daniels, Hardy), the fact that they jumped to the NFL as soon as they could sans degree, the reason you go to ND in the first place supposedly (Tuitt, Atkinson and Niklas) and or were just a bad fit from the get go (Lynch). You then follow that class up with more academic problems (Tee Shepard and Russel) behavior problems (Neale, Ferguson and Mahone) and bad fits (Kiel) in 2012 and pile injuries on top of that and voila here ND is with a supper young team with little leadership and a program that lacks a strong foundation of program first guys.

 

[IrishBroker]

1. Join a conference. I am one of the biggest fans of independence, but it's clear that we need to start moving forward as a program. We will always get left out with a loss, in favor of a power 5. After Texas, we were sunk, and everyone here knew it. But if we were in a power 5 conference, we win that title and we are likely in.(permitting we won the rest of the way, but you get my point)

2. Lower the standards for football players. If we want to win big, not just 9 wins and a meaningless bowl game, then we need to start allowing those who are borderline, into our program. It will not hurt the program to allow a few through the cracks that have good character, but grades that aren't perfect. Or we can just accept that we won't compete year in and year out and get lucky once every 10-15 yrs or so. With Juco transfers, over signing, and easier standards at other schools, it's impressive that we've managed to stay relevant for this long.

3. Take Juco transfers. I have no idea why we don't. Other than our own ego.

 

[Meatloaf]

1. Join a conference. I am one of the biggest fans of independence, but it's clear that we need to start moving forward as a program. We will always get left out with a loss, in favor of a power 5. After Texas, we were sunk, and everyone here knew it. But if we were in a power 5 conference, we win that title and we are likely in.(permitting we won the rest of the way, but you get my point)

2. Lower the standards for football players. If we want to win big, not just 9 wins and a meaningless bowl game, then we need to start allowing those who are borderline, into our program. It will not hurt the program to allow a few through the cracks that have good character, but grades that aren't perfect. Or we can just accept that we won't compete year in and year out and get lucky once every 10-15 yrs or so. With Juco transfers, over signing, and easier standards at other schools, it's impressive that we've managed to stay relevant for this long.

3. Take Juco transfers. I have no idea why we don't. Other than our own ego.

2 and 3 are not happening and it's wildly unrealistic to think ND'S administration would even consider this.

 

[IrishBroker]

2 and 3 are not happening and it's wildly unrealistic to think ND'S administration would even consider this.

That's fine. I'm just offering my opinions.

It's equally wild to totally dismiss ideas to improve a program, IMO.

They need to at least look at doing SOMETHING to jump start this.

 

[phillyirish]

1. Join a conference. I am one of the biggest fans of independence, but it's clear that we need to start moving forward as a program. We will always get left out with a loss, in favor of a power 5. After Texas, we were sunk, and everyone here knew it. But if we were in a power 5 conference, we win that title and we are likely in.(permitting we won the rest of the way, but you get my point)

2. Lower the standards for football players. If we want to win big, not just 9 wins and a meaningless bowl game, then we need to start allowing those who are borderline, into our program. It will not hurt the program to allow a few through the cracks that have good character, but grades that aren't perfect. Or we can just accept that we won't compete year in and year out and get lucky once every 10-15 yrs or so. With Juco transfers, over signing, and easier standards at other schools, it's impressive that we've managed to stay relevant for this long.

3. Take Juco transfers. I have no idea why we don't. Other than our own ego.

1. Might consider this just to shut other fans up who always complain about us being independent. "ND has to realize they are not special anymore and need to join a conference". Check comments on ESPN after ever loss, this will pop up. No were not in a conference cause we don't need it. Were gonna be on national TV next week at 1-3 against Syracuse. No one other team would get that treatment. We would get it Indy or not.

2. Similar situation. Other fans don't give ND credit for their academic situation and recruiting restrictions. A lot will praise Stanford, and other schools like Northwestern or even Vandy in the damn SEC. But never ND. In fact they will say some BS like ND constantly finishes top 5 in recruiting and never produces. When in fact I don't believe we had a consensus top 5 class since that woefully disappointing 2008 class.