Brian Kelly Revisited (RIP BOZO)

Brian Kelly Revisited


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NDRock

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And that's really all it is. We're not losing big bowl games as a favorite during Kelly's tenure.

In 2012, 2018, and maybe 2020 we're losing bowl games to the National Champions. In 2015 we lost to the college football team with the most NFL talent on it. At least, I believe OSU had the most NFL players drafted that year.

Iowa State just beat a team that lost to Oregon State and Cal in back to back games this year. That is their BIG bowl win.

These teams are not even playing in the same sandbox as of ND right now. 12 months ago, ND destroyed ISU in their bowl game matchup. I love what Campbell is doing at ISU but let's keep it real.

Perspective folks. Perspective seems reasonable.

Agree. We've played in four of those games in Kelly's era and they were:

2012 - Bama (National Champs)
2015 - Ohio State finished #4 (defending champs, loaded)
2018 - Clemson (National Champs)
2020 - #1 Bama

In Kelly's tenure we've beaten the following teams in the regular season, who then went on to play in major bowls:

2012 - Stanford
2013 - Michigan State
2017 - USC
2018 - Michigan
2019 - Virginia
2020 - Clemson, North Carolina

Is it a great record? Probably not but we have beaten some quality teams through the years that went on to play and win major bowls. Our matchups in the actual games have been brutal.
 

IrishSteelhead

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And that's really all it is. We're not losing big bowl games as a favorite during Kelly's tenure.

In 2012, 2018, and maybe 2020 we're losing bowl games to the National Champions. In 2015 we lost to the college football team with the most NFL talent on it. At least, I believe OSU had the most NFL players drafted that year.

Iowa State just beat a team that lost to Oregon State and Cal in back to back games this year. That is their BIG bowl win.

These teams are not even playing in the same sandbox as of ND right now. 12 months ago, ND destroyed ISU in their bowl game matchup. I love what Campbell is doing at ISU but let's keep it real.

Perspective folks. Perspective seems reasonable.


Some Iowa State player will have a grandkid on his lap years from now, staring in awe at his Fiesta Bowl Champion ring. They wont know, or care, the road he took to obtain it.


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Luckylucci

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Some Iowa State player will have a grandkid on his lap years from now, staring in awe at his Fiesta Bowl Champion ring. They wont know, or care, the road he took to obtain it.


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Understood, it's a great story for their fans. Love Matt Campbell and what he's done at ISU. But, in no way is it an indictment of our program, relatively speaking.
 

BilboBaggins

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Understood, it's a great story for their fans. Love Matt Campbell and what he's done at ISU. But, in no way is it an indictment of our program, relatively speaking.

If Notre Dame had the same season ISU just had, people here would be complaining about Brian Kelly's inability to not lose early season games against inferior teams.

Having said that, Matt Campbell would be my choice for next ND coach.

Side note: a family friend followed him to ISU as his WR coach and when the OC spot opened basically told Campbell that he wants a promotion to passing game coordinator or he's leaving. Campbell didn't blink and now Gasser is the WR coach at....Akron. yikesssss not a great career move lol
 

Sea Turtle

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If Notre Dame had the same season ISU just had, people here would be complaining about Brian Kelly's inability to not lose early season games against inferior teams.

Having said that, Matt Campbell would be my choice for next ND coach.

Side note: a family friend followed him to ISU as his WR coach and when the OC spot opened basically told Campbell that he wants a promotion to passing game coordinator or he's leaving. Campbell didn't blink and now Gasser is the WR coach at....Akron. yikesssss not a great career move lol

Good grief. If we could only win the Fiesta bowl.

We are 0 for our last 7 BCS bowls and have lost by a combined 161 points. That's an average of 23 points a game.
 

Hammer Of The Gods

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I don’t want to fire BK. I just want him to leave. He’s taken this as far as he can. No shame in it. Can anyone else do better? Don’t know, but I’m ready to find out.
 

FightingIrishLover7

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I don’t want to fire BK. I just want him to leave. He’s taken this as far as he can. No shame in it. Can anyone else do better? Don’t know, but I’m ready to find out.
Major yikes lol.

Urban, Saban, Dabo etc would all have a tough go at it with NDs recruiting/academic climate.

No marquee coach wants to subject themselves to that to begin with.

The odds of a coach "doing better" are slim to none. (and much much closer to none, than slim).

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NDFAN420

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Major yikes lol.

Urban, Saban, Dabo etc would all have a tough go at it with NDs recruiting/academic climate.

No marquee coach wants to subject themselves to that to begin with.

The odds of a coach "doing better" are slim to none. (and much much closer to none, than slim).

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Then the argument can be made that Kelly's not demanding some rope on recruiting is keeping us back. Any theoretical "better" coach is going to demand easier recruiting. He's going to be denied. That's not ever going to happen with the current Admin. The only way I can see it changing is a philosophy change at the top. That's a lot of money and a lot of people.

I'm sorry to say but we're waiting on a paradigm shift for the University as a whole. Plus, they get to attend all of their meetings and say look at us, look at how good we are and we do things "the right way". They are not giving up their sanctimony, it's their everything, for anything. Good luck.
 
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Luckylucci

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I don’t want to fire BK. I just want him to leave. He’s taken this as far as he can. No shame in it. Can anyone else do better? Don’t know, but I’m ready to find out.

And this is kind of where a lot of fanbases go when they are this close but just can't get over the hump. However, usually that's an emotional response and not grounded in risk/reward.

I think there are two options or routes we could go.

1. We could go with a younger blue collar style coach like Campbell. Maybe he'll there is some extra juice he could squeeze out of the roster because he's got a little more fire in his belly. But, he's never recruited anywhere close to this level and (per everyone) that's a necessity these days.

2. Go with the flashy recruiter. Someone like PJ Fleck. Hopefully he recruits at the elite level folks seem to think ND should be at, that we aren't currently. And, that will over take some of his deficiencies as a football coach or lack of experience that a guy like BK has running this level of a program.
 

FWIrish4

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It seems we do a great job of forcing teams to place extra men in the box, which subsequently makes their secondary back off the majority of the time. It feels like we never just take what’s given to us in the passing game though.

How often do we hit quick slants, hitches, etc? We like to run longer developing routes, which makes us complain about the “lack of separation” from our wide receivers. Alabama for the whole first half just took what we were giving them underneath with our off coverage, so why don’t we run timing routes as well?

Also, watch how often other teams use motion just to execute a basic run play. This creates hesitation or small misdirection for the linebackers. We tend to line up and just pound it, which works pretty well but I think we can exploit bigger plays. I just don’t think we use quick hitters, motion and wrinkles of our base plays as much as other top offensive teams do.

To add to this, I just watched North Carolina hit a running back on a wheel route for a TD. Where the hell is that for ND’s offense? You could even have Mayer run that along with any of our RBs.

The key will always be the generational QB, but I also think we’re missing pretty basic offensive schematic advantages we see other teams use. We have the personnel that Shanahan uses with his incredibly awesome offense with the 49ers that I wish we emulated a lot more. They try to establish the run and use multiple tight ends too, but still produce explosive plays.

I have trust in Rees and hope that he can grow quite a bit with one full year under his belt, but I guess I’m just disappointed we’re not more creative especially with BK’s offensive background.
 

Free Manera

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And this is kind of where a lot of fanbases go when they are this close but just can't get over the hump. However, usually that's an emotional response and not grounded in risk/reward.

I think there are two options or routes we could go.

1. We could go with a younger blue collar style coach like Campbell. Maybe he'll there is some extra juice he could squeeze out of the roster because he's got a little more fire in his belly. But, he's never recruited anywhere close to this level and (per everyone) that's a necessity these days.

2. Go with the flashy recruiter. Someone like PJ Fleck. Hopefully he recruits at the elite level folks seem to think ND should be at, that we aren't currently. And, that will over take some of his deficiencies as a football coach or lack of experience that a guy like BK has running this level of a program.

I feel like it would have to be Fickell. He does both pretty well. If Day ends up in the NFL OSU probably swipes him back.
 

IrishSteelhead

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And this is kind of where a lot of fanbases go when they are this close but just can't get over the hump. However, usually that's an emotional response and not grounded in risk/reward.


There are a lot of parallels between Andy Reid and BK IMO.

Reid has been a consistent winner everywhere he went, yet still constantly has the fanbase calling for his head every off-season.

He finally got over the hump after 20 seasons with the help of an all-timer at QB.

Roughly translated:

WE NEED AN ALL-TIMER QB!!!!!!


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Luckylucci

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I feel like it would have to be Fickell. He does both pretty well. If Day ends up in the NFL OSU probably swipes him back.

Certainly, Fickell would definitely be up there. Where do you think he fits in?

I like Fickell a lot but I kind of view him more in the mold of Campbell and uses that blue collar/underdog attitude with a focus on identification to build his troops. Is he punching above his weight class with regards to recruiting? I know folks make a big deal about where Cincy was and is now but there have been a few coaches that have had success at Cincy so not quite as unique as what Campbell has done at ISU.

Do people believe he'd be the guy that gets ND into the top 5 recruiting every year? Or is he the guy that just gets that little bit extra out of what we have?
 

Free Manera

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Certainly, Fickell would definitely be up there. Where do you think he fits in?

I like Fickell a lot but I kind of view him more in the mold of Campbell and uses that blue collar/underdog attitude with a focus on identification to build his troops. Is he punching above his weight class with regards to recruiting? I know folks make a big deal about where Cincy was and is now but there have been a few coaches that have had success at Cincy so not quite as unique as what Campbell has done at ISU.

Do people believe he'd be the guy that gets ND into the top 5 recruiting every year? Or is he the guy that just gets that little bit extra out of what we have?

I never see his name on the top recruiter lists. So I don’t know that he himself is a stud recruiter.

However I fully expect he understands the importance of recruiting and would hold his staff to a very high standard.
 

Luckylucci

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There are a lot of parallels between Andy Reid and BK IMO.

Reid has been a consistent winner everywhere he went, yet still constantly has the fanbase calling for his head every off-season.

He finally got over the hump after 20 seasons with the help of an all-timer at QB.

Roughly translated:

WE NEED AN ALL-TIMER QB!!!!!!


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I'm with ya. Finding the QB or having a system in place where we give ourselves a better chance for that QB every year is extremely important.

There is the obvious, which is the importance of the position. Like you've said, one guy can take you over the top. Therefore, that's a lot easier to manage than increasing the talent of, say, the top 40 scholarships on your roster. But also, I think there are realistic things we could do starting tomorrow that would give us a much better shot at getting that done.
 

BilboBaggins

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There are a lot of parallels between Andy Reid and BK IMO.

Reid has been a consistent winner everywhere he went, yet still constantly has the fanbase calling for his head every off-season.

He finally got over the hump after 20 seasons with the help of an all-timer at QB.

Roughly translated:

WE NEED AN ALL-TIMER QB!!!!!!

Then the fanbase says RUN THE BALLLLLLL lol

I guarantee you coaches around the country respect what Kelly & Company pulled off with a QB like Book. He's a QB who does not have the full route tree at his disposal. ND doesn't even incorporate slant routes! Usually run-heavy offenses rely on slants like its part of their bread and butter. I really think Book had issues seeing the field over the OL.

An all-timer QB would be nice, but WR talent is just as big of an issue. This offense was made one-dimensional because the QB was above average and the WRs were average. One of those position groups needed to step up to help the other IMO
 

phork

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There are a lot of parallels between Andy Reid and BK IMO.

Reid has been a consistent winner everywhere he went, yet still constantly has the fanbase calling for his head every off-season.

He finally got over the hump after 20 seasons with the help of an all-timer at QB.

Roughly translated:

WE NEED AN ALL-TIMER QB!!!!!!


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Like Trevor Lawrence? Your argument is flawed just by the 2 playoff games that just happened. Mac Jones is not generational or even awesome. He has weapons all around him. Alabamas YAC per game is like 240yards.
We want a qb that can deliver a ball. We need ridiculous speed on the outside.
 

fightingirish26

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Like Trevor Lawrence? Your argument is flawed just by the 2 playoff games that just happened. Mac Jones is not generational or even awesome. He has weapons all around him. Alabamas YAC per game is like 240yards.
We want a qb that can deliver a ball. We need ridiculous speed on the outside.

Lawrence won three playoff games in his career.

Regardless, this argument has always been about what it will take FOR NOTRE DAME. Bama can straight up out talent top ten teams.
 

GATTACA!

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Then the fanbase says RUN THE BALLLLLLL lol

I guarantee you coaches around the country respect what Kelly & Company pulled off with a QB like Book. He's a QB who does not have the full route tree at his disposal. ND doesn't even incorporate slant routes! Usually run-heavy offenses rely on slants like its part of their bread and butter. I really think Book had issues seeing the field over the OL.

An all-timer QB would be nice, but WR talent is just as big of an issue. This offense was made one-dimensional because the QB was above average and the WRs were average. One of those position groups needed to step up to help the other IMO

No it's not. Not even close.
 

Hammer Of The Gods

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Does anyone else not like our offense? Everything seems like a accident imo. You watch Bama, OSU, etc....everything just seems to flow. Books limitations aside. Even our run games seems accidental. Idk, maybe I’m being to critical.
 

phork

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Lawrence won three playoff games in his career.

Regardless, this argument has always been about what it will take FOR NOTRE DAME. Bama can straight up out talent top ten teams.

Having a generational qb doesn't work if you have statues impersonating as WRS.
 

Dale

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WR/TE skill is the new key. Could that change in 5 years? Sure but that is how college football is currently played. Alabama had a “TE” return a kickoff to put in perspective the skill that young WR/TEs play with now. It’s actually quite simple why CFB has shifted that way. Most major programs recruit and develop at a similar elite level now in the trenches. Therefore, get the ball out of the box and who has the best in a 1 v 1, 2 v 2 etc matchup. The skill of your QB just determines what page of the playbook you’re on.
 

Sea Turtle

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Like Trevor Lawrence? Your argument is flawed just by the 2 playoff games that just happened. Mac Jones is not generational or even awesome. He has weapons all around him. Alabamas YAC per game is like 240yards.
We want a qb that can deliver a ball. We need ridiculous speed on the outside.

Lawrence was on his ass a lot last night. Ohio State has dudes on defense.
 

fightingirish26

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Having a generational qb doesn't work if you have statues impersonating as WRS.

I hope those days are behind us. WR recruiting has been good the last two cycles.

WR room next year:
Austin
Lenzy
Davis
Keys
Wilkins
Johnson
Watts
Brunelle
Styles
Colzie
Thomas

Did micah jones announce his transfer yet? If not, well it's a forgone conclusion as he graduated in 3. Lenzy, keys and Wilkins are transfer possibilities. Brunelle and Thomas probably have zero chance of PT next year and the rest are all clear athletic upgrades on Javon and Ben.
 

Old Man Mike

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On our major bowl trophy record and "match-ups."

Maybe it's been mentioned. Notre Dame is a publicity draw like almost no one else. Bowls get to choose who they are going to invite to some degree. After getting some power team slotted in, they look for a "paying/TV draw" opponent. There sits a good Notre Dame team, albeit less ranked. No matter, this will translate into bucks. Invite out. We accept to play a superior opponent.

This is not a mystery.
 

IrishSteelhead

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Brian Kelly Revisited

Having a generational qb doesn't work if you have statues impersonating as WRS.


Its a lot easier for a good quarterback to make bad receivers look good, than good receivers making a bad quarterback look good.

Its a moot point, though. No premier QB is going to choose a school that has a bare cupboard at WR, or a crappy offensive system in place, so you need one to have the other.

Im not saying ND has a bare cupboard or crappy offensive system, just pointing out the obvious.


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NDMatt91

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Its a lot easier for a good quarterback to make bad receivers look good, than good receivers making a bad quarterback look good.

Its a moot point, though. No premier QB is going to choose a school that has a bare cupboard at WR, or a crappy offensive system in place, so you need one to have the other.

Im not saying ND has a bare cupboard or crappy offensive system, just pointing out the obvious.


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Of the players that BK has recruited at ND (including the last part of the 2010 class), he has only had 1 QB and 4 WR that were drafted. CAL, who has had 7 losing seasons since BK has been the coach, has had 2 QB’s drafted and 4 WR drafted from the 2010-2017 recruiting classes. That isn’t good company to be in. Evaluation is a big part of the problem. I remember when BK chose Torii Hunter Jr. over Tyler Boyd, for example. We were the favorite for Boyd, but BK accepted Hunter’s commitment before Boyd’s announced and chose not to pursue him any longer.
 
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