Brian Kelly Revisited (RIP BOZO)

[tommyIRISH23]

It is a Kelly problem. Getting blown out in a major bowl by Oregon State twenty years ago has shit to do with him or any of these kids. Having seen what BK did with LeFevour at CMU, with Pike and Collaros at UC; I thought he'd use the ND brand to bring in QB talent and show us that strength. That "Quarterback Whisperer" reputation hasn't manifested itself at Notre Dame. Everett Golson was a tremendous HS QB. Zaire, Kizer, Hendrix were talents. The guy that really disappointed me was Wimbush. How they got nothing out of him is beyond me.

I heard Alabama employs close to thirty of these recruiting evaluators. I don't know if that is true, but suppose you pay them $40K a year. Even for college town living, that's not much to live on and if you're paying 30 of these people that adds up. I Honestly have no idea what they make, but if Alabama has close to that many, I don't know why ND would only have a fraction of that.

Yeah Kelly drastically changed a lot of ways post 2016. It’s almost like 2 different tenures. The moves he’s made the last 4 years have me hopeful he can make another jump before he goes in the next 3/4 years. Pre Kelly we were what? A top 34-40 program. From 2010 to 2016 we were probably a top 20-25 program. Now we’re solidly in the top 10 I think. Does he have it in him to break in the top 4/5? I’m hopeful. He has to up his game and land a few more high 4/5 stars. I think it’s well within Notre Dames reach to do that. So time will tell.

Also, on the Bama recruiting coordinator thing, yeah even if we had 1/2 that...it’d make a huge difference I’m sure. Interesting

 

[Sea Turtle]

Bingo. Saban, Meyer and Swinney have dozens of these kinds of people on their staffs. They are former college coaches, HS coaches and they get paid to do recruiting evaluation all day long.

ND has a fraction of the staff these guys have.

Meyer had his chance to come to ND in 2005 and he chose Florida because he knew the path to winning their was going to be much easier. It was the right choice.

This administration and Brian Kelly seem to be happy with the way things are. As supporters, we want to see what we have not since January 1989. Just when I think Brian Kelly has turned a corner, he comes back around to showing that he is still the rigid guy he was when he was doing dumb things against Tulsa. I wish I could say I was impressed with his post game press conference the other day, but for him to act that way is pretty arrogant considering he doesn't have the equity to crap on the media when he hasn't won a title.

I thought Pete Sampson asked a great question in terms of "what do you need to do from here?" as it relates to winning a championship. Kelly got pissy about it and thinks everything is fine. "We'll be back here again".

He was saying that same shit in 2016 when they went 4-8.

I question whether he can get it done when he acts this way.

Honestly, I think he is just getting tired of these questions from reporters who already know the answers. Heck, even we know them.

He could have said something like 'Thats a good question Pete. Here's what Notre Dame football needs to take the next step is.....' and he lists all of things that we have been talking about that handicaps us. Actually pointing out the differences between the way the factories operate and the way ND operates. Doing this very politely and sincerely.

Then when Swarbrickk asks him why he would say that, simply remark ' I was being honest .You guys fired George O'Leary for lying on his resume but you want me to lie publicly to dozens of reporters?

That would have been epic.

 

[NDFAN420]

I’ve posted before that from 2013-2020 there were 213 5* and 4* recruits who did not have a ND offer but were offered by Stanford, NW, or an Ivy League school. From 2013-2020 OSU only offered 18 more of these 5*/4* prospects than we did. Heck, the majority of the studs OSU has landed under Meyer and Day were good enough academically to get into ND. There are also players Meyer offered who, depending on their foreign language credits, likely would’ve been able to get into ND: JT Barrett (3.9 GPA >1400 SAT), Joe Burrow (3.8 GPA), Mitch Trubisky (3.6 GPA, NW offer). The player pool is there for us to realistically contend for a national title. The issue is that we don’t have a HC whose body of work is very attractive to a lot of blue chip recruits (that we can offer) AND isn’t viewed as a great recruiter (and in some instances, a lazy recruiter). Kelly has even acknowledged that he can be more available to recruits.

The only requirement I can see Admissions caving on is the stupid foreign language requirement. There are players out there with offers from Stanford with 4.0 GPA who might not be able to be admitted because they might lack the required foreign language credits. I have no doubt that Meyer would be able to persuade them to axe that requirement and keep everything else as is.

Kelly absolutely needs to allocate more resources to recruiting. I doubt we seriously contend for a title with him as HC, but allocating more resources to recruiting is our only chance at maximizing our run for the next 4 years of BK. Personally, I think it was stupid to extend him for 3 more years when he already was under contract for 2021, as that takes us out of the running for any hot young coaches or prominent coaches who may have temporarily retired, until at least 2025.

We're not going to get all the kids who got good grades in H.S., and it's still limiting yourself in a real significant way. I'm not a maths guy, but over time a larger talent pool always beats a smaller talent pool.

Kelly can't allocate money he doesn't have. Point that finger at the Admin that unnecessarily handcuffs our program it uses as an ATM (in the name of integrity and all that). Alabama and tOSU pay coaches so much because more $ attracts better talent. Better talent = better results (see talent pool).

ND with more money than Croesus, refuses to compete on the actual marketplace as a buyer, but will as a seller. That's actually immoral according to ND's own standards. No joking. For all the talk of integrity, it's more than a little hypocritical.

 

[Irishize]

BK came off as a douchebag in that interview. The Sampson question made perfect sense & he gets his panties in a bunch. As long as Swarbrick & the administration is happy, then BK will be on cruise control. He had to drive the program into a ditch in 2016 to get the last four years but there’s still very few impressive wins.

IIRC, ND went 3-4 against ranked teams the past two years. The wins included Clemson & UNC this season & Navy last season. I don’t think I’m going out on a limb to say he doesn’t get the Clemson win if they are at full strength or at least had Lawrence.

 

[Irishize]

Mac Jones graduated in 2 yrs and I believe is close to completing his Masters at Bama. He’s obviously a bright kid to accomplish that at an state university. I think he was a 3 star w/ an offer from FAU. Why wasn’t he on ND’s radar?

 

[Sea Turtle]

BK came off as a douchebag in that interview. The Sampson question made perfect sense & he gets his panties in a bunch. As long as Swarbrick & the administration is happy, then BK will be on cruise control. He had to drive the program into a ditch in 2016 to get the last four years but there’s still very few impressive wins.

IIRC, ND went 3-4 against ranked teams the past two years. The wins included Clemson & UNC this season & Navy last season. I don’t think I’m going out on a limb to say he doesn’t get the Clemson win if they are at full strength or at least had Lawrence.

See, I don't think Kelly is on cruise control. I think it grates on him how his hands are tied. He wants to WIN. But he keeps running into these teams that are allowed to win by going up to the very line of being legal.
That's why I don't blame him for snapping. These reporters know the deal. That's why I wished he would have listed all the handicaps that need to be removed to take 'the next step'.

 

[IrishFanJMercy]

Mac Jones graduated in 2 yrs and I believe is close to completing his Masters at Bama. He’s obviously a bright kid to accomplish that at an state university. I think he was a 3 star w/ an offer from FAU. Why wasn’t he on ND’s radar?

Jones is a good QB but let’s be honest Devonte Smith makes him look really good. I don’t think Mac Jones puts up anywhere close to the same numbers at ND

 

[Free Manera]

Mac Jones graduated in 2 yrs and I believe is close to completing his Masters at Bama. He’s obviously a bright kid to accomplish that at an state university. I think he was a 3 star w/ an offer from FAU. Why wasn’t he on ND’s radar?

Because they have 3 guys in their recruiting office instead of 20+ like every other legit football program.

This is the entire problem with recruiting. If they could evaluate and identify more high upside guys with interest in ND it would be a whole new ballgame.

The academic restrictions are kind of a scapegoat for what is really going on. Although the language requirement has to go that is just absurd even for non athletes.

 

[NDMatt91]

Because they have 3 guys in their recruiting office instead of 20+ like every other legit football program.

This is the entire problem with recruiting. If they could evaluate and identify more high upside guys with interest in ND it would be a whole new ballgame.

The academic restrictions are kind of a scapegoat for what is really going on. Although the language requirement has to go that is just absurd even for non athletes.

Why Kelly hasn’t put together an analyst staff who monitor recruiting 24/7 like the other schools is beyond me. I highly doubt that Saban, Dabo, and Day are paying top dollar for their recruiting analysts. That would no doubt allow Kelly to cast a wider net and be aware of the 4/5 star prospects with offers from Stanford, NW, or an Ivy school that he didn’t offer, much less have been aware of in the past. That way, if we miss on several initial targets at a position, there will be more quality prospects to try and rebound with.

 

[FWIrish4]

Because they have 3 guys in their recruiting office instead of 20+ like every other legit football program.

This is the entire problem with recruiting. If they could evaluate and identify more high upside guys with interest in ND it would be a whole new ballgame.

The academic restrictions are kind of a scapegoat for what is really going on. Although the language requirement has to go that is just absurd even for non athletes.

This is well-known, but does anyone with insider information know why this is still the case? Has this been requested by Brian Kelly yet and the admin still refuses? We’re not selling our soul to add much needed support staff. It’s literally the absolute least the administration could do to reward a program that has positioned themselves as the 4th best team in the country the last 4 seasons. They’ve done it with very limited resources and talent compared to the rest in that group.

 

[ThePiombino]

This is well-known, but does anyone with insider information know why this is still the case? Has this been requested by Brian Kelly yet and the admin still refuses? We’re not selling our soul to add much needed support staff. It’s literally the absolute least the administration could do to reward a program that has positioned themselves as the 4th best team in the courtney the last 4 seasons. They’ve done it with very limited resources and talent compared to the rest in that group.

wE'rE sHoPiNg DoWn A dIfFeReNt AiSlE

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk

 

[Free Manera]

wE'rE sHoPiNg DoWn A dIfFeReNt AiSlE

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk

I know you’re joking but that’s actually the perfect argument to have more and better recruiting staff. Find the guys that 1. Are good 2. Want to come and 3. Are a fit. Then help them get in the door.

 

[Irishize]

Jones is a good QB but let’s be honest Devonte Smith makes him look really good. I don’t think Mac Jones puts up anywhere close to the same numbers at ND

Oh I agree with that. I just look at his completion %age (also could be attributed to playing behind the best OL in the country) and the fact that he’s only been sacked 10 times and gets rid of the ball so quick tells me he was a diamond in the rough or Sark really developed him. I do think he better land in the right system or he wont play much in the NFL...he had an embarrassment of riches surround him in T-town.

 

[Irishize]

This is well-known, but does anyone with insider information know why this is still the case? Has this been requested by Brian Kelly yet and the admin still refuses? We’re not selling our soul to add much needed support staff. It’s literally the absolute least the administration could do to reward a program that has positioned themselves as the 4th best team in the country the last 4 seasons. They’ve done it with very limited resources and talent compared to the rest in that group.

Matt Fortuna stated on their recent pod that Bama employs 30 to analyze recruiting while ND relies on Bill Rees, Arryn Kearney & Dave Peloquin. So Bama has ten times the personnel to ensure fewer misses in recruiting. They’re probably the only program in the nation who have the luxury of turning down 5-stars

 

[FWIrish4]

Matt Fortuna stated on their recent pod that Bama employs 30 to analyze recruiting while ND relies on Bill Rees, Arryn Kearney & Dave Peloquin. So Bama has ten times the personnel to ensure fewer misses in recruiting. They’re probably the only program in the nation who have the luxury of turning down 5-stars

Exactly so it’s widely known now outside the Gug walls that they are severely lacking, which is why I think Sampson’s question about “What’s the next step?” was semi fair. I do think it was ill-timed after the game and a better question for another time, but there needs to be an answer. And what I want to know is if the administration is on board for an ask of that nature, which I think isn’t even that large of an ask.

 

[Luckylucci]

I'm really hoping that once the pandemic has cleared a bit, we're going to hear about Kelly's stipulations in his contract extension.

He said it was never about the money but the commitments/investments (can't remember the word he used) in the program.

 

[Irishize]

Kenzel Kelly
@Kenzel_kelly
It’s okay that you think my dad is “disappointing on so many levels”! But let’s remember you are a “former WR coach“ for good reasonRolling on the floor laughingstick to being critical but don’t make coaching suggestions because although that might be you’re handler that’s not you’re job title anymore.

Quote Tweet
Bryan Driskell
@CoachD178
· 10h
Brian Kelly's postgame rant following the Alabama game was disappointing on so many levels, and shows an unwillingness to truly embrace the standard that comes with being the coach at Notre Dame ... which is championships #GoIrish

 

[Free Manera]

I'm really hoping that once the pandemic has cleared a bit, we're going to hear about Kelly's stipulations in his contract extension.

He said it was never about the money but the commitments/investments (can't remember the word he used) in the program.

Let’s hope so. It seems like there is definitely some light being cast on the football program’s handcuffs right now. Maybe it was info leaked to leverage some concessions.

 

[ulukinatme]

Kenzel Kelly
@Kenzel_kelly
It’s okay that you think my dad is “disappointing on so many levels”! But let’s remember you are a “former WR coach“ for good reasonRolling on the floor laughingstick to being critical but don’t make coaching suggestions because although that might be you’re handler that’s not you’re job title anymore.

Quote Tweet
Bryan Driskell
@CoachD178
· 10h
Brian Kelly's postgame rant following the Alabama game was disappointing on so many levels, and shows an unwillingness to truly embrace the standard that comes with being the coach at Notre Dame ... which is championships #GoIrish

Suck it, Driskell!

 

[GATTACA!]

Exactly so it’s widely known now outside the Gug walls that they are severely lacking, which is why I think Sampson’s question about “What’s the next step?” was semi fair. I do think it was ill-timed after the game and a better question for another time, but there needs to be an answer. And what I want to know is if the administration is on board for an ask of that nature, which I think isn’t even that large of an ask.

Of course the Sampson question was fair, but Kelly's response was perfectly fine too. Sampson was basically asking for Kelly to shit on his own players by giving an honest answer.

"Yeah Pete the truth is our guys suck compared to theirs, the University has me and my staff handcuffed, so until I can bring in players to replace the scrubs I'm working with what you see is what you get."

I mean come on. How do people actually expect Kelly to answer that question honestly? And furthermore Kelly is, even being pessimistic, one of the top 15 coaches in the country. How does anyone think that answer means he doesn't know the truth of the matter? Of course he knows he's coaching at a disadvantage. But laying it out like that for public consumption doesn't help any aspect of the problem.

 

[LOVEMYIRISH]

I'm really hoping that once the pandemic has cleared a bit, we're going to hear about Kelly's stipulations in his contract extension.

He said it was never about the money but the commitments/investments (can't remember the word he used) in the program.

He is so rich that he wants a title more than anything...have no doubt he wants more concessions for analysts, etc.

 

[NorthDakota]

Because they have 3 guys in their recruiting office instead of 20+ like every other legit football program.

This is the entire problem with recruiting. If they could evaluate and identify more high upside guys with interest in ND it would be a whole new ballgame.

The academic restrictions are kind of a scapegoat for what is really going on. Although the language requirement has to go that is just absurd even for non athletes.

I suspect the next couple years will be a gutcheck moment for the administration. The football program at Notre Dame BUILT Notre Dame, they'd be a Missouri Valley school at best without it.

Now they need to decide whether they want to invest in football properly or not. I'm sure there is more that goes into it, but if you boil it down...I bet it ends up roughly there. What are alums willing to tolerate and what is the school itself willing to tolerate/invest?

Money ain't an issue in South Bend...and that bounty of money has resulted largely from the football program (exposure, Fandom, etc.)

I'm not an alum, so my dog in the fight is limited to Saturdays in the fall and hopefully bonding with future kids over it, but I hope they go for it

 

[Irish#1]

Like Trevor Lawrence? Your argument is flawed just by the 2 playoff games that just happened. Mac Jones is not generational or even awesome. He has weapons all around him. Alabamas YAC per game is like 240yards.
We want a qb that can deliver a ball. We need ridiculous speed on the outside.

I think Jones is better than you give him credit for. He was making all the right reads and putting the ball right where it needed to be. He had control of that offense.

Its a lot easier for a good quarterback to make bad receivers look good, than good receivers making a bad quarterback look good.

This

Brian Kelly already reset when he hired Long and Elko. He need to reset again and figure out what will get them to a Championship. I think it starts with recruiting. How do they get these dynamic skill guys, especially at Quarterback?

No need to reset. We are right there. We need that star QB along with an outstanding WR and a shutdown corner.

BK and staff just need to hit on that recruiting trifecta to take the next step.

 

[Irish#1]

This administration and Brian Kelly seem to be happy with the way things are. As supporters, we want to see what we have not since January 1989. Just when I think Brian Kelly has turned a corner, he comes back around to showing that he is still the rigid guy he was when he was doing dumb things against Tulsa. I wish I could say I was impressed with his post game press conference the other day, but for him to act that way is pretty arrogant considering he doesn't have the equity to crap on the media when he hasn't won a title.

I thought Pete Sampson asked a great question in terms of "what do you need to do from here?" as it relates to winning a championship. Kelly got pissy about it and thinks everything is fine. "We'll be back here again".

He was saying that same shit in 2016 when they went 4-8.

I question whether he can get it done when he acts this way.

Are they? How do you know this? Kelly went to Jack and asked for upgrades and got them. The changes made had a beneficial impact. It could be BK asked for more staff and better salaries as well. The administration isn't going to simply open the pocket book and give him everything he wants right out of the gate. It could very well be that they granted some of his requests and said they will wait to see if their initial investment paid off before buying more stock. Now after a few years, BK can go back and show concrete evidence that those changes had a positive impact and to be able to win a NC, these other changes need to be made.

 

[Free Manera]

Mac Jones makes every throw and is a projected first rounder. He is very good. He dropped dimes all year.

However of course receivers, line, and run game all matter too and Bama was better at almost every position.

That said I’m sure if ND and Bama switched qbs, the game would’ve been competitive. Lea could have caged in Book and made him throw from the pocket just like Bama did.

 

[InKellyWeTrust]

I think Jones is better than you give him credit for. He was making all the right reads and putting the ball right where it needed to be. He had control of that offense.



This



No need to reset. We are right there. We need that star QB along with an outstanding WR and a shutdown corner.

BK and staff just need to hit on that recruiting trifecta to take the next step.

This is my perspective as well. And we may have the right combination in the 2020/2021 classes to take the next step as long as defensive line and OLine stay consistent. I'm actually hopeful for 2022 and 2023 even though the schedule will be brutal. 2021 should be all about getting young guys reps and finding the correct OLine combination for the next 2-3 years imo.

 

[Free Manera]

It needs to be that trifecta every single year, not just once. Add a pass rusher to the list too. Then you basically have Clemson.

 

[NDRock]

Mac Jones makes every throw and is a projected first rounder. He is very good. He dropped dimes all year.

However of course receivers, line, and run game all matter too and Bama was better at almost every position.

That said I’m sure if ND and Bama switched qbs, the game would’ve been competitive. Lea could have caged in Book and made him throw from the pocket just like Bama did.

I’m just skeptical of Jones at the next level. Hard to evaluate when your OL and skill positions are that loaded. Think Book would put up huge numbers in that offense as well. Will be interesting to see what Jones does at the next level. Tua sure looks pedestrian so far.

 

[IrishLion]

I love this thread after a big loss.

1. BK doesn't recruit
2. Urban Meyer
3. ND will never reach the summit

Time is a circle. Nothing is new. Everything has happened and will happen again. Etc.

The reality is that Bama is a machine in their own tier, regardless of who they have at QB. They reload at every position, every year. They are essentially an NFL program that requires their players to earn college credit.

The next tier is Clemson and Ohio State, clearly the next best programs in the country. Their rosters are good enough to keep them in the company of the elite, and even winning their biggest games, regardless of who they have at QB... but QB still determines their ceiling. They elevate to 'tier 1' with elite QB play; they stay at 'tier 2' with adequate QB play; they'd drop to 'tier 3' if they had to rely on a placeholder at QB, which neither has recently. Clemson should be just fine with DJ U at QB, but I'm much more curious to see what Ohio State does post-Fields.

The third tier features ND and Oklahoma. SEC and PAC12 fans would probably take huge issue with that, especially LSU, UGA and Oregon fans... but ND and Oklahoma are a step above anybody else with an argument, because they are the only programs that have proven capable of making MULTIPLE playoff runs, despite not quite sharing the elite traits of the programs above them.

So if you put aside arguments about recruiting, conference strength, head-to-head matchups, common results, and other factors, the reality and the evidence say that ND is in a better place than all but three or four other programs in the country.

LSU? They won a natty, but that was a one-off lead by a miracle run of QB play and gameplanning. Without Joe Burrow and Joe Brady, they fell off a fucking cliff.

UGA? They suffer self-inflicted wounds every season that seem to put them behind the 8-ball. First they ran off Justin Fields in favor of Jake Fromm (LOL), and this year they waited too long to get Daniels on the field.

Several schools have arguments that they should be with ND, or even listed above ND... and yet, BK's program continues to prove that it is stronger, healthier and more capable of answering yearly questions than almost every other program in the country.

I choose to be optimistic in this regard. We don't recruit like UGA, UF or LSU; we don't get plug-and-play QB's like Oklahoma; we don't get elite QB play on top of elite rosters like OSU or Clemson; we don't get elite play at multiple levels on a yearly basis like Bama. But we know that if the stars align just one time for ND at the QB position, they jump from tier 3 to tier 2, or even tier 1.

 

[Hammer Of The Gods]

I love this thread after a big loss.

1. BK doesn't recruit
2. Urban Meyer
3. ND will never reach the summit

Time is a circle. Nothing is new. Everything has happened and will happen again. Etc.

The reality is that Bama is a machine in their own tier, regardless of who they have at QB. They reload at every position, every year. They are essentially an NFL program that requires their players to earn college credit.

The next tier is Clemson and Ohio State, clearly the next best programs in the country. Their rosters are good enough to keep them in the company of the elite, and even winning their biggest games, regardless of who they have at QB... but QB still determines their ceiling. They elevate to 'tier 1' with elite QB play; they stay at 'tier 2' with adequate QB play; they'd drop to 'tier 3' if they had to rely on a placeholder at QB, which neither has recently. Clemson should be just fine with DJ U at QB, but I'm much more curious to see what Ohio State does post-Fields.

The third tier features ND and Oklahoma. SEC and PAC12 fans would probably take huge issue with that, especially LSU, UGA and Oregon fans... but ND and Oklahoma are a step above anybody else with an argument, because they are the only programs that have proven capable of making MULTIPLE playoff runs, despite not quite sharing the elite traits of the programs above them.

So if you put aside arguments about recruiting, conference strength, head-to-head matchups, common results, and other factors, the reality and the evidence say that ND is in a better place than all but three or four other programs in the country.

LSU? They won a natty, but that was a one-off lead by a miracle run of QB play and gameplanning. Without Joe Burrow and Joe Brady, they fell off a fucking cliff.

UGA? They suffer self-inflicted wounds every season that seem to put them behind the 8-ball. First they ran off Justin Fields in favor of Jake Fromm (LOL), and this year they waited too long to get Daniels on the field.

Several schools have arguments that they should be with ND, or even listed above ND... and yet, BK's program continues to prove that it is stronger, healthier and more capable of answering yearly questions than almost every other program in the country.

I choose to be optimistic in this regard. We don't recruit like UGA, UF or LSU; we don't get plug-and-play QB's like Oklahoma; we don't get elite QB play on top of elite rosters like OSU or Clemson; we don't get elite play at multiple levels on a yearly basis like Bama. But we know that if the stars align just one time for ND at the QB position, they jump from tier 3 to tier 2, or even tier 1.

Has anything ever came out as to 'why' we can't get a stud QB? Me, personally, i wouldn't want to play QB for BK. But has a recruit every came out and said I didn't go to ND because...?