Brian Kelly Revisited (RIP BOZO)

[ColinKSU]

This is what Notre Dame football is and will always be under Brian Kelly.

I swear I’m not even insulting him when I say that. 10 wins is very good. They’ll just *never* be a team that wins in the CFP. A lot of teams aren’t ever going to even get that far, so it’s seriously a compliment to Kelly that he has the program at this level.

They’re just never going to get past that level, for whatever that’s worth. He doesn’t have that gear as a coach, recruiter or program builder.

 

[irishff1014]

'Bama and Clemson spend 4-5x more on football than we do. It's reflected in a myriad of ways- recruiting class rankings, players drafted, staff pay, the small army of "analysts" breaking down film on recruits and opponents, etc- but that's where the real gap is.

Kelly has no control over how much ND's admin is willing to spend on football. Your beef is with them, not our HC.

And you are wrong in this he does have a say. BK calls Jack I am going to interview every opportunity I have to leave since you won’t help the team. And when he leaves and bashes the school for not putting the money into the program that probably pays for every other sport ND has the money men will get pissed. Because let’s face it this is the best ND football is getting. We have hit the Mark. Unless the they hire another coach that can really coach up the talent.

 

[Free Manera]

Need better players. That’s #1. There is no close second.

Kelly admitted it in his post game by the way. “We need more firepower”

 

[irishff1014]

Need better players. That’s #1. There is no close second.

Kelly admitted it in his post game by the way. “We need more firepower”

And that’s his fault. He is in charge and he should be making sure to go after these players. Yes some won’t want to come here. But the success this program has had in the last few years you convince some of these guys to get you of the hump. But a top Wr isn’t going to catch passes from a qb like Ian Book.

 

[ColinKSU]

Need better players. That’s #1. There is no close second.

Kelly admitted it in his post game by the way. “We need more firepower”

He’s right but we all know he won’t go get that firepower. We’ll meet back here in a couple of years when this happens again and Kelly says we need more firepower.

 

[NDRock]

'Bama and Clemson spend 4-5x more on football than we do. It's reflected in a myriad of ways- recruiting class rankings, players drafted, staff pay, the small army of "analysts" breaking down film on recruits and opponents, etc- but that's where the real gap is.

Kelly has no control over how much ND's admin is willing to spend on football. Your beef is with them, not our HC.

Are these numbers available anywhere?

 

[NorthDakota]

'Bama and Clemson spend 4-5x more on football than we do. It's reflected in a myriad of ways- recruiting class rankings, players drafted, staff pay, the small army of "analysts" breaking down film on recruits and opponents, etc- but that's where the real gap is.

Kelly has no control over how much ND's admin is willing to spend on football. Your beef is with them, not our HC.

I would love to see ND go scorched earth. Basically pull the move Saban did when football was changing to be tempo and offensively driven, say "I dont like this, I think its bad. But we want to win and so we will do it. I'm sure you poors won't regret getting into a fundraising war with the Catholic Church at all."

 

[tommyIRISH23]

He’s right but we all know he won’t go get that firepower. We’ll meet back here in a couple of years when this happens again and Kelly says we need more firepower.

I think we have recruited the fire power the last 2 years. We just don’t play them.

 

[NDMatt91]

I actually feel bad for Brian Kelly. He is a damn good coach. But with the restrictions for student athletes at Notre Dame I don’t think a national championship will ever be possible again.

For Kelly’s sake I hope he ends his career at a football factory, because he will get the national championship he deserves.


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I think the Academic excuse is a bit overblown. There are plenty of prospects that can get into ND to field a team that is truly one of the best 4-5 in the country annually.

I did some research on the total number of non-JUCO 5*/4* prospects each year from 2013-2020 (per 247). I did a comparison between us and OSU. I did not include JUCO’s who were offered by OSU, which only made up a handful of offers in most years. Next to each year is the total number of 5* and 4* prospects available that year. In the ND section, I also included the total number of these prospects who were NOT offered by ND, but had Stanford/NW/Ivy offers (no repeats), and therefore would’ve likely been accepted to ND.

Notre Dame 5* and 4* Recruit Offers By Year
2013 (338)-136 (160 different prospects offered by ND/Stanford/NW/Ivy League)
2014 (329)-119 (154 different prospects offered by ND/Stanford/NW/Ivy League)
2015 (342)-134 (163 different prospects offered by ND/Stanford/NW/Ivy League)
2016 (342)-140 (168 different prospects offered by ND/Stanford/NW/Ivy League)
2017 (338)-147 (177 different prospects offered by ND/Stanford/NW/Ivy League)
2018 (376)-133 (154 different prospects offered by ND/Stanford/NW/Ivy League)
2019 (385)-150 (175 different prospects offered by ND/Stanford/NW/Ivy League)
2020 (373)-124 (145 different prospects offered by ND/Stanford/NW/Ivy League)

Ohio State 5* and 4* Recruit Offers By Year
2013 (338)-111
2014 (329)-128
2015 (342)-158
2016 (342)-138
2017 (338)-114
2018 (376)-140
2019 (385)-159
2020 (373)-153

Looking at the numbers, OSU offered only 18 more 5/4* recruits than we did over the span of 8 recruiting classes. If you add in the 5/4* recruits that BK did not offer who had an offer from Stanford, NW, or an Ivy League team, there were an additional 213 5/4* prospects that likely would’ve been accepted to ND. There are also players who excelled academically who were not offered by ND/Stanford/NW during this time span that panned out nicely and likely would’ve been able to be admitted. J.T. Barrett (3.9 HS GPA, >1400 SAT) and Joe Burrow (3.8 HS GPA), just to name a few.

The issue, IMO, is that BK and quite a few of the folks on the staff are not really good recruiters, and in some instances, they are lazy recruiters. If we had a Ryan Day or Urban Meyer type that was an elite recruiter AND talent evaluator (think the Joe Burrow’s of the world), we’d be a top 4-5 team every year. The pool of players are there to field a championship-level program.

 

[irishff1014]

I think we have recruited the fire power the last 2 years. We just don’t play them.

Some of it is players don’t learn. Some of it is loyalty.

Example. I own a dealership and my best friend is slacking in sales I will get on him. Yes he will be my best friend but this is a business you have to work for it here. Just because we are friends doesn’t mean shit here.

 

[Free Manera]

I think the Academic excuse is a bit overblown. There are plenty of prospects that can get into ND to field a team that is truly one of the best 4-5 in the country annually.

I did some research on the total number of non-JUCO 5*/4* prospects each year from 2013-2020 (per 247). I did a comparison between us and OSU. I did not include JUCO’s who were offered by OSU, which only made up a handful of offers in most years. Next to each year is the total number of 5* and 4* prospects available that year. In the ND section, I also included the total number of these prospects who were NOT offered by ND, but had Stanford/NW/Ivy offers (no repeats), and therefore would’ve likely been accepted to ND.

Notre Dame 5* and 4* Recruit Offers By Year
2013 (338)-136 (160 different prospects offered by ND/Stanford/NW/Ivy League)
2014 (329)-119 (154 different prospects offered by ND/Stanford/NW/Ivy League)
2015 (342)-134 (163 different prospects offered by ND/Stanford/NW/Ivy League)
2016 (342)-140 (168 different prospects offered by ND/Stanford/NW/Ivy League)
2017 (338)-147 (177 different prospects offered by ND/Stanford/NW/Ivy League)
2018 (376)-133 (154 different prospects offered by ND/Stanford/NW/Ivy League)
2019 (385)-150 (175 different prospects offered by ND/Stanford/NW/Ivy League)
2020 (373)-124 (145 different prospects offered by ND/Stanford/NW/Ivy League)

Ohio State 5* and 4* Recruit Offers By Year
2013 (338)-111
2014 (329)-128
2015 (342)-158
2016 (342)-138
2017 (338)-114
2018 (376)-140
2019 (385)-159
2020 (373)-153

Looking at the numbers, OSU offered only 18 more 5/4* recruits than we did over the span of 8 recruiting classes. If you add in the 5/4* recruits that BK did not offer who had an offer from Stanford, NW, or an Ivy League team, there were an additional 213 5/4* prospects that likely would’ve been accepted to ND. There are also players who excelled academically who were not offered by ND/Stanford/NW during this time span that panned out nicely and likely would’ve been able to be admitted. J.T. Barrett (3.9 HS GPA, >1400 SAT) and Joe Burrow (3.8 HS GPA), just to name a few.

The issue, IMO, is that BK and quite a few of the folks on the staff are not really good recruiters, and in some instances, they are lazy recruiters. If we had a Ryan Day or Urban Meyer type that was an elite recruiter AND talent evaluator (think the Joe Burrow’s of the world), we’d be a top 4-5 team every year. The pool of players are there to field a championship-level program.

Part of the problem is resources. ND has a recruiting staff literally 1/4 the size of Bama and most schools that matter. Need more people analyzing and offering. Need more money dedicated to recruiting.

 

[tommyIRISH23]

I think the Academic excuse is a bit overblown. There are plenty of prospects that can get into ND to field a team that is truly one of the best 4-5 in the country annually.

I did some research on the total number of non-JUCO 5*/4* prospects each year from 2013-2020 (per 247). I did a comparison between us and OSU. I did not include JUCO’s who were offered by OSU, which only made up a handful of offers in most years. Next to each year is the total number of 5* and 4* prospects available that year. In the ND section, I also included the total number of these prospects who were NOT offered by ND, but had Stanford/NW/Ivy offers (no repeats), and therefore would’ve likely been accepted to ND.

Notre Dame 5* and 4* Recruit Offers By Year
2013 (338)-136 (160 different prospects offered by ND/Stanford/NW/Ivy League)
2014 (329)-119 (154 different prospects offered by ND/Stanford/NW/Ivy League)
2015 (342)-134 (163 different prospects offered by ND/Stanford/NW/Ivy League)
2016 (342)-140 (168 different prospects offered by ND/Stanford/NW/Ivy League)
2017 (338)-147 (177 different prospects offered by ND/Stanford/NW/Ivy League)
2018 (376)-133 (154 different prospects offered by ND/Stanford/NW/Ivy League)
2019 (385)-150 (175 different prospects offered by ND/Stanford/NW/Ivy League)
2020 (373)-124 (145 different prospects offered by ND/Stanford/NW/Ivy League)

Ohio State 5* and 4* Recruit Offers By Year
2013 (338)-111
2014 (329)-128
2015 (342)-158
2016 (342)-138
2017 (338)-114
2018 (376)-140
2019 (385)-159
2020 (373)-153

Looking at the numbers, OSU offered only 18 more 5/4* recruits than we did over the span of 8 recruiting classes. If you add in the 5/4* recruits that BK did not offer who had an offer from Stanford, NW, or an Ivy League team, there were an additional 213 5/4* prospects that likely would’ve been accepted to ND. There are also players who excelled academically who were not offered by ND/Stanford/NW during this time span that panned out nicely and likely would’ve been able to be admitted. J.T. Barrett (3.9 HS GPA, >1400 SAT) and Joe Burrow (3.8 HS GPA), just to name a few.

The issue, IMO, is that BK and quite a few of the folks on the staff are not really good recruiters, and in some instances, they are lazy recruiters. If we had a Ryan Day or Urban Meyer type that was an elite recruiter AND talent evaluator (think the Joe Burrow’s of the world), we’d be a top 4-5 team every year. The pool of players are there to field a championship-level program.

Wow great work

 

[tommyIRISH23]

Some of it is players don’t learn. Some of it is loyalty.

Example. I own a dealership and my best friend is slacking in sales I will get on him. Yes he will be my best friend but this is a business you have to work for it here. Just because we are friends doesn’t mean shit here.

I don’t know if this is factual or not but the announcers today were taking about the progression of D. Smith and how he’s evolved his game as an upperclassmen and can play any WR position now but last year he was just relegated to being on the outside. I took that as Bama recognizing he’s an amazing talent and finding ways of getting him on the field even though he’s limited on how many routes he can run. Point being, you get your athletes on the field and let them make plays. No reason we can’t give our young athletes 10 plays to remember and have them run them each game. Also, you get better through experience. And it’ll probably help keep these highly rated athletes engaged if they have a role on the team even if it’s 5 plays a game until they learn. The more they’re engaged, the more they’ll learn and learn faster

 

[NDRock]

Wow great work

Yep. If Ohio State wins tonight, teams with more 5* players on their roster will be 13-3 all time in the playoffs.. Notre Dame continued the streak of no team with less than four 5* players ever winning a playoff game. Talent matters.

 

[NDRock]

I don’t know if this is factual or not but the announcers today were taking about the progression of D. Smith and how he’s evolved his game as an upperclassmen and can play any WR position now but last year he was just relegated to being on the outside. I took that as Bama recognizing he’s an amazing talent and finding ways of getting him on the field even though he’s limited on how many routes he can run. Point being, you get your athletes on the field and let them make plays. No reason we can’t give our young athletes 10 plays to remember and have them run them each game. Also, you get better through experience. And it’ll probably help keep these highly rated athletes engaged if they have a role on the team even if it’s 5 plays a game until they learn. The more they’re engaged, the more they’ll learn and learn faster

Yep. The Golden Tate freshman route tree.

 

[ColinKSU]

I don’t know if this is factual or not but the announcers today were taking about the progression of D. Smith and how he’s evolved his game as an upperclassmen and can play any WR position now but last year he was just relegated to being on the outside. I took that as Bama recognizing he’s an amazing talent and finding ways of getting him on the field even though he’s limited on how many routes he can run. Point being, you get your athletes on the field and let them make plays. No reason we can’t give our young athletes 10 plays to remember and have them run them each game. Also, you get better through experience. And it’ll probably help keep these highly rated athletes engaged if they have a role on the team even if it’s 5 plays a game until they learn. The more they’re engaged, the more they’ll learn and learn faster

It’s *amazing* that Notre Dame can’t say “Hey, freshman WR who has speed that our upperclassmen don’t. Go out onto the field and run in a straight line.”

 

[Free Manera]

Yep. If Ohio State wins tonight, teams with more 5* players on their roster will be 13-3 all time in the playoffs.. Notre Dame continued the streak of no team with less than four 5* players ever winning a playoff game. Talent matters.

Jimmies and Joe’s. Always has been and always will be. It was varsity vs JV out there today.

The following things cannot be corrected by coaching:
Book’s height and arm strength
WR’s speed
DE quickness
DB speed

 

[phork]

Kelly's a good coach. But his ceiling is players as said above. That's the bottom line. We aren't talking 5stars that go to michigan, it's Alabama 5 stars.

 

[NDMatt91]

Part of the problem is resources. ND has a recruiting staff literally 1/4 the size of Bama and most schools that matter. Need more people analyzing and offering. Need more money dedicated to recruiting.

I completely agree.

 

[Sea Turtle]

Yep. If Ohio State wins tonight, teams with more 5* players on their roster will be 13-3 all time in the playoffs.. Notre Dame continued the streak of no team with less than four 5* players ever winning a playoff game. Talent matters.

Of course it matters. It's why the best coaches want a couple of exceptions every year. It ain't fun getting skull dragged.

 

[greyhammer90]

Just a reminder that you aren't allowed to have the opinion that winning championships/playoff games is the ultimate goal and a coach that can't do that should be fired.

You're allowed to have that opinion. People in Knoxville TN and Austin TX sure did.

 

[Sherm Sticky]

Of course it matters. It's why the best coaches want a couple of exceptions every year. It ain't fun getting skull dragged.

There is no need for exceptions at OSU, Bama, Clemson. It’s school like Notre Dame, Stanford, Duke where it’s crucial to have academic exceptions. Notre Dame paid the price dearly for not having any exceptions when Urban Meyer came for an interview in 2004/2005. Meyers heart was for Notre Dame but his brain told him ND won’t allow any exception, than its impossible to win there so I’ll go to Florida. 5 stars don’t want to play school because they all think they are going to the NFL.


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[Sea Turtle]

There is no need for exceptions at OSU, Bama, Clemson. It’s school like Notre Dame, Stanford, Duke where it’s crucial to have academic exceptions. Notre Dame paid the price dearly for not having any exceptions when Urban Meyer came for an interview in 2004/2005. Meyers heart was for Notre Dame but his brain told him ND won’t allow any exception, than its impossible to win there so I’ll go to Florida. 5 stars don’t want to play school because they all think they are going to the NFL.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yes, that's what mean. The best coaches want exceptions to coach at ND so they can compete with the best. Urban Meyer and Bob Stoops.

And they are not being unreasonable. ND is.

 

[T-Boone]

The press conference was funny.
What about that smart arse repeating the Heisman question after pointing out NDs 10 losses in these games.
BK should find him and beat him up.

 

[T-Boone]

The press conference was funny.
What about that smart arse repeating the Heisman question after pointing out NDs 10 losses in these games.
BK should find him and beat him up.

Edit: just listened to the defensive players press conference that smart arse guy was saying "sorry for the tough loss". Then he goes on to ask the boys "what does Devontae Smith look like up close?" The boys had no idea what he was going on about.
He was having a laugh right, oh he's having a laugh.

 

[Wingman Ray]

Yes, that's what mean. The best coaches want exceptions to coach at ND so they can compete with the best. Urban Meyer and Bob Stoops.

And they are not being unreasonable. ND is.

Bingo.

This is what amazes me. It is either that ND handicaps itself repeatedly in so many ways or is such a great school of higher integrity. Either one means you arent on the same playing field as the teams that dont prescribe to either. Yet people expect ND to be top dog as if there is some kind of divine favor involved.

I dont think God walked this world in flesh for that.

I wish CFB isnt as it is today. I wish there was integrity involved. Some days I wish ND would bend a little but then we have to ask ourselves, if they did, would they still be the same ND we have loved all these years?

Fact is apart from a HUGE revamp of CFB, ND is never going to have that NC trophy in its trophy case again. Get used to it and understand it is what it is.

Not to say ND cant have some good teams because they can, and have. This years team was a good team. It wasnt a great team and it takes great teams to win NCs.

I dont understand people who (and pointing firstly at myself at time) expect ND to have the handicaps it has and still be better than everyone else's best that do not have the handicaps. Thats insane.

Bama is a football factory. Thats its. The degree there isnt worth the paper it is written on unless it is a law degree and that is a very small department of a big college. Ive not heard anyone say a degree from OSU is a worldbeater either.

ND is an academic school first, football school second. And that doesnt win NCs.

 

[GATTACA!]

You can't tell me that ND admissions don't let some kids slide through that are borderline that also happen to be from families that are generational boosters.

Top end football players shouldn't be any different. They make the school just as much money with their hard work on the field.

Mike Goolsby was talking about this on the B&G wrap up show after the game. Talking about his frustrations with the state of our recruiting he said something along the lines of "Notre Dame isn't a hard school, getting into Notre Dame is the hard part. We aren't talking about MIT here." He went on to talk about how while he was being recruited by ND he had a 2.5 GPA, and he was able to manage his class load just fine.

He said he has talked with current staff members about potential recruits. He trains high school aged players. He said he'll bring up some player he knows that's a stud and the staff will tell him they can't touch the player because he has a 2.9 GPA. He says the staff is forced to pass over players that aren't home runs academically.

One other thing he danced around right after, that I think is actually a really great point is the players motivations. When you only recruit players that have high test scores and come from generally a very similar socioeconomic background you're missing the recruits that these top tier programs get that are extremely motivated by thinking football is their way out. You're not going to get the same commitment and drive from someone that isn't as willing to put their body on the line. He talked about how he noticed a lack of emotion on our sideline after the loss.

 

[NDFAN420]

Bingo.

This is what amazes me. It is either that ND handicaps itself repeatedly in so many ways or is such a great school of higher integrity. Either one means you arent on the same playing field as the teams that dont prescribe to either. Yet people expect ND to be top dog as if there is some kind of divine favor involved.

I dont think God walked this world in flesh for that.

I wish CFB isnt as it is today. I wish there was integrity involved. Some days I wish ND would bend a little but then we have to ask ourselves, if they did, would they still be the same ND we have loved all these years?

Fact is apart from a HUGE revamp of CFB, ND is never going to have that NC trophy in its trophy case again. Get used to it and understand it is what it is.

Not to say ND cant have some good teams because they can, and have. This years team was a good team. It wasnt a great team and it takes great teams to win NCs.

I dont understand people who (and pointing firstly at myself at time) expect ND to have the handicaps it has and still be better than everyone else's best that do not have the handicaps. Thats insane.

Bama is a football factory. Thats its. The degree there isnt worth the paper it is written on unless it is a law degree and that is a very small department of a big college. Ive not heard anyone say a degree from OSU is a worldbeater either.

ND is an academic school first, football school second. And that doesnt win NCs.

Chapter and verse in the OT/NT that talks about college football remuneration and TV deals. We can keep to our ideals and allow our football program the ability to be a football program.

ND is a university first, because of its football team.

 

[ulukinatme]

You can't tell me that ND admissions don't let some kids slide through that are borderline that also happen to be from families that are generational boosters.

Top end football players shouldn't be any different. They make the school just as much money with their hard work on the field.

Mike Goolsby was talking about this on the B&G wrap up show after the game. Talking about his frustrations with the state of our recruiting he said something along the lines of "Notre Dame isn't a hard school, getting into Notre Dame is the hard part. We aren't talking about MIT here." He went on to talk about how while he was being recruited by ND he had a 2.5 GPA, and he was able to manage his class load just fine.

He said he has talked with current staff members about potential recruits. He trains high school aged players. He said he'll bring up some player he knows that's a stud and the staff will tell him they can't touch the player because he has a 2.9 GPA. He says the staff is forced to pass over players that aren't home runs academically.

One other thing he danced around right after, that I think is actually a really great point is the players motivations. When you only recruit players that have high test scores and come from generally a very similar socioeconomic background you're missing the recruits that these top tier programs get that are extremely motivated by thinking football is their way out. You're not going to get the same commitment and drive from someone that isn't as willing to put their body on the line. He talked about how he noticed a lack of emotion on our sideline after the loss.

This was all pretty enlightening, but the bolded is a red flag. You can't expect to beat the football factories by self imposing restrictions like this.

 

[GATTACA!]

This was all pretty enlightening, but the bolded is a red flag. You can't expect to beat the football factories by self imposing restrictions like this.

And what's even worse is he mentions that the kid he is talking about is 15, or was 15 when he spoke to the staff member. So that's a player with ample time to bring his grades up slightly to fit the ND profile, and yet they're already taking him off the list this early on.

Very frustrating.