Brian Kelly Revisited (RIP BOZO)

[dad4aa]

IMO most of this stems from everyone wanting Nyles Morgan to play over Joe Schmidt. Had Nyles been able to handle the duties of getting everyone into the right position, which was a big part of the job, he would have started. Will never understand how anyone really believes a HC at ND will play less talented players and risk losing which could cost him his job just to play favorites. One of the dumbest arguments I have heard against BK.

 

[NDRock]

IMO most of this stems from everyone wanting Nyles Morgan to play over Joe Schmidt. Had Nyles been able to handle the duties of getting everyone into the right position, which was a big part of the job, he would have started. Will never understand how anyone really believes a HC at ND will play less talented players and risk losing which could cost him his job just to play favorites. One of the dumbest arguments I have heard against BK.

Every fan base says this about their coach. At least everyone but Bama and Clemson.

Also, Nyles should have been playing. Jaylon could have set up the D. BVG was an idiot. Nyles usually got zero snaps. Inexcusable.

 

[Dizzyphil]

Every fan base says this about their coach. At least everyone but Bama and Clemson.

Also, Nyles should have been playing. Jaylon could have set up the D. BVG was an idiot. Nyles usually got zero snaps. Inexcusable.

Yep

 

[Riddickulous]

Of all four coaches in the CFB Playoff this year - I hate to say it but all but BK would pull a JR/SR for a Frosh if they deemed the talent dictated so...


BK has a reputation of being loyal to some that he shouldn't have.

The other 3 schools regularly land the kind of elite, college ready players that we don't. When BK does land players like this, they play (Jaylon, Hamilton, etc.)

 

[Old Man Mike]

"Yep?"
Nope.

And Jaylon couldn't set the defense either (great a player as he was.)

 

[NDRock]

"Yep?"
Nope.

And Jaylon couldn't set the defense either (great a player as he was.)

So, if Joe Schmidt got injured we would have just not played defense? Worst argument ever. All people wanted was Nyles to get snaps. He got almost zero. I think the way the BVG fiasco played out, we were right.

Also, Jaylon is somehow able to make the defensive calls in the NFL. Though, with how the Cowboys play defense, it might not help my argument.

 

[Dizzyphil]

"Yep?"
Nope.

And Jaylon couldn't set the defense either (great a player as he was.)

Disagree .... stick the O-Line arguments...

 

[Dizzyphil]

So, if Joe Schmidt got injured we would have just not played defense? Worst argument ever. All people wanted was Nyles to get snaps. He got almost zero. I think the way the BVG fiasco played out, we were right.

Also, Jaylon is somehow able to make the defensive calls in the NFL. Though, with how the Cowboys play defense, it might not help my argument.

There's not a DC in the NFL that wouldn't want Jaylon on their defense.

 

[ulukinatme]

FWIW, the year after Joe graduated and Nyles took over we fielded the worst defense of all time and BVG was finally fired. We had problems beyond being out of position though, that was just one of our many issues that season. If you don't think every coach wasn't pulling for Nyles Morgan to be the answer over Joe Schmidt in 2015, I've got a bridge to sell you. Coaches do not start less athletic players because they like risking their jobs, they start whoever gives them the best chance to win games. Sometimes that means playing a less athletic player with a higher football IQ or someone who is more comfortable running the system. It's just not in a coach's best interest to play anyone else.

 

[NDRock]

FWIW, the year after Joe graduated and Nyles took over we fielded the worst defense of all time and BVG was finally fired. We had problems beyond being out of position though, that was just one of our many issues that season. If you don't think every coach on that roster didn't want an athletic Nyles Morgan to be the answer over Joe Schmidt in 2015, I've got a bridge to sell you. Coaches do not start less athletic players because they like risking their jobs, they start whoever gives them the best chance to win games. Sometimes that means playing a less athletic player with a higher football IQ or someone who is more comfortable running the system. It's just not in a coach's best interest to play anyone else.

So your position is we lost Joe Schmidt and Jaylon Smith but the reason we regressed had more to do with Joe graduating? Maybe Myles would have played better in 2016 if he got some action in 2015. That’s the point. He never played and wasn’t developed. Is there ever a time coaches get things wrong?

 

[Crazy Balki]

So your position is we lost Joe Schmidt and Jaylon Smith but the reason we regressed had more to do with Joe graduating? Maybe Myles would have played better in 2016 if he got some action in 2015. That’s the point. He never played and wasn’t developed. Is there ever a time coaches get things wrong?

I think it can be both.

Even when he had great coaching, Morgan wasn't all that impressive and even got to the point where his captaincy was stripped.

Not to mention, the dude was constantly battling injuries, particularly shoulder problems that were consistent since basically the start of his career.

 

[ulukinatme]

So your position is we lost Joe Schmidt and Jaylon Smith but the reason we regressed had more to do with Joe graduating? Maybe Myles would have played better in 2016 if he got some action in 2015. That’s the point. He never played and wasn’t developed. Is there ever a time coaches get things wrong?

Yeah, coaches get stuff wrong, but more times than not they get it right over the armchair QB fans. Think about it, these guys spend time and recruit these players, they see them every day in practice, they see them in games, they see their preparation off the practice field. They know these guys infinitely better than we do as fans. Why in the world would they ever start a less athletic individual unless that player gave them the best chance to win? It's just not logical, and it's certainly not good for their job security. Again, I'm not saying they don't get things wrong from time to time, but 9/10 when the backup fills in for the starter there tends to be a drop off because the coaches know what they're doing.

Coaches give these players chances to step up, maybe not always in games, but they do gets reps with first teamers in practice. If they choose not to take advantage of their opportunities they either accept their role or they transfer. It's not always a coach's fault if a player doesn't develop. Many players fail to live up to the hype because they don't put forth the right effort or they struggle to make that jump from high school to college. Then there's scouts that make bad judgments too. It is what it is.

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

I'm eight minutes into this podcast and I feel like Driskel is just talking in circles.


He starts by saying "don't tell me about the freshman that have played like Michael Mayer and Tyree and Folston and TJ Jones..." because...? He essentially admits that Kelly plays freshmen when they are the better option. Either they are more talented or injury dictates that they play. He uses the freshmen that have played and done well as reason to play other freshmen. He says that this is all based on a comment made about Tyree, but then he even proceeds to mention that this isn't that he believes Tyree should be playing over Kyren. And then he mentions a freshman that played for Clemson Saturday and admits that it was largely due to injuries. That's where I stopped.


What this really is is him thinking Jordan Johnson should play based off...? His high school camp performances? Everyone always assumes the grass is always greener.

Sometimes both arguments can have some truth to them:

Does BK play freshmen? Yes. Hainsey years back, Mayer, Tyree, Hamilton, etc.

Does BK and staff put young WRs on the field? No, they don't and they won't. The coaches will tell you they aren't ready. Driskell (and others) argue that a freshman WR doesn't need to be able to do everything in order to be effective. Find a few situations for him to produce and let him loose.

 

[NDRock]

Yeah, coaches get stuff wrong, but more times than not they get it right over the armchair QB fans. Think about it, these guys spend time and recruit these players, they see them every day in practice, they see them in games, they see their preparation off the practice field. They know these guys infinitely better than we do as fans. Why in the world would they ever start a less athletic individual unless that player gave them the best chance to win? It's just not logical, and it's certainly not good for their job security. Again, I'm not saying they don't get things wrong from time to time, but 9/10 when the backup fills in for the starter there tends to be a drop off because the coaches know what they're doing.

Coaches give these players chances to step up, maybe not always in games, but they do gets reps with first teamers in practice. If they choose not to take advantage of their opportunities they either accept their role or they transfer. It's not always a coach's fault if a player doesn't develop. Many players fail to live up to the hype because they don't put forth the right effort or they struggle to make that jump from high school to college. Then there's scouts that make bad judgments too. It is what it is.

I agree, coaches get it right most of the time. Nyles Morgan getting zero playing time behind one of the worst defensive players I’ve ever watched because he couldn’t “set up the defense” was an instance the coach failed. You’ll never convince me otherwise. If his defense was so complex, only one player on the roster could function in that role, then it’s a failure on the coach. There’s a decade worth of evidence that backs up BVG’s failures.

 

[Old Man Mike]

"You'll never convince me otherwise"
Friend, we're not trying to. We're just giving opinions about what we feel that we saw. When Elko arrived, he saw Nyles (and God bless Nyles for the hard effort he always made) as a player with speed and power but almost no linebacker instinct or mobility outside of a straight line. Elko (or Lea since he was his coach) decided to use Morgan's strength as a continual bettering ram. (If you have a chance to watch the old games, see Elko/Lea continually ramming Morgan straight ahead like a pile-driver into gaps. You might also notice that the defensive plays would be called by one of the side linebackers [Coney or Martini]--- both of whom were much better linebackers than Nyles.)

So, Elko and Lea couldn't get him up to speed on these things either, and both those guys are pretty good. As to Joe Schmidt --- I prayed for an upgrade just as hard as anyone. Schmidt actually made most of the plays required of him, but there were (as we know) several times each game where his lack of speed (not positioning) had him blowing plays that Manti, Jaylon, Coney, or our current guys would have closed on. I prayed that somehow Jarrett Grace would recover miraculously, as he was the middle linebacker with instincts and quicks that we lacked.

But there is nothing not to like about Nyles Morgan as one of our loyal warriors who always threw himself into the battle.

 

[benneboy]

Anything to this Kelly and Texas stuff? Been hearing it for a while from the Ut side but blew it off. Starting to hear it from our side today though

 

[Sea Turtle]

Anything to this Kelly and Texas stuff? Been hearing it for a while from the Ut side but blew it off. Starting to hear it from our side today though

Where are you hearing this?

 

[dad4aa]

Anything to this Kelly and Texas stuff? Been hearing it for a while from the Ut side but blew it off. Starting to hear it from our side today though

I’ve heard nothing of any UT rumors

 

[NDFAN420]

I agree, coaches get it right most of the time. Nyles Morgan getting zero playing time behind one of the worst defensive players I’ve ever watched because he couldn’t “set up the defense” was an instance the coach failed. You’ll never convince me otherwise. If his defense was so complex, only one player on the roster could function in that role, then it’s a failure on the coach. There’s a decade worth of evidence that backs up BVG’s failures.

There's a lot of truth here. Other teams get players that can't read, let alone get into Notre Dame, and yet have the "smarts" to position people properly on the field. ND only had one? That sounds like a coaching issue.

OMM: Jarrett Grace, what a blast from the (recent) past! Pete Bercich jr is a RS Freshman LB at MN.

 

[irishff1014]

Anything to this Kelly and Texas stuff? Been hearing it for a while from the Ut side but blew it off. Starting to hear it from our side today though

From what i read it sounds like it is just a bunch of talk from the boosters like they did with Saban before the they hired Herman.

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

From what i read it sounds like it is just a bunch of talk from the boosters like they did with Saban before the they hired Herman.

It would be very interesting to see Kelly with a roster like Texas, FSU, USC, etc. but he's made it clear this is his final stop. At his age he isn't going somewhere else to start over.

 

[irishff1014]

It would be very interesting to see Kelly with a roster like Texas, FSU, USC, etc. but he's made it clear this is his final stop. At his age he isn't going somewhere else to start over.

I agree. I would be easier for him to recruit, nice weather and they may pay his assistants more and him for that matter. But he sees what he and the staff have built here and i think he really likes it. But sounds like they need a culture change and I am not sure he wants a complete redo again.

 

[NDRock]

I think he’d still go to the NFL if given the chance, not sure on another college gig. Wouldn’t totally surprise me.

 

[SouthSideChiDomer]

Anything to this Kelly and Texas stuff? Been hearing it for a while from the Ut side but blew it off. Starting to hear it from our side today though

I heard it a while ago from some national reporter and then Texas people confirmed they were hearing it, but I haven't hear anything from our side so I didn't worry about it until your post.

Who knows if its real or not. They seemed like they were dead set on Meyer and when they didn't get him, it seemed like they were content to stick it out with Herman for at least another year. Maybe Texas (or some of their rogue boosters) have been talking to Kelly, but like others said, who is to say he would even want to go? Given that he just got the extension before this season, maybe this is him getting negotiating leverage for some of the other things he wants like maybe more pay for his assistants, more analyst and staff positions, getting private jet usage for his coaches, or facility upgrades.

All of that said, if he does want to go, I wouldn't be too upset. I'm not arguing he should be fired or anything like that, but he has brought the program to a position where the best of the up-and-coming coaches want the job. So if news were to come out tomorrow that Kelly was leaving for the Texas job, we could probably have the introductory press conference for our choice of either Fickell or Campbell by Monday.

 

[NDFAN420]

I agree. I would be easier for him to recruit, nice weather and they may pay his assistants more and him for that matter. But he sees what he and the staff have built here and i think he really likes it. But sounds like they need a culture change and I am not sure he wants a complete redo again.

Kelly recruits?

 

[tko]

No way Kelly takes the job at UT. Let's see how many distractions we can have ahead of playing Goliath. First, we lose Clark to Vandy and he's finishing out his time here, and second, rumors build about Kelly? Hopefully someone can push the proper button on game day to get our boys into attack mode. I'd love an early score by ND(before Bama puts up 35) to get the juices flowing.

 

[Irish#1]

I heard it a while ago from some national reporter and then Texas people confirmed they were hearing it, but I haven't hear anything from our side so I didn't worry about it until your post.

Who knows if its real or not. They seemed like they were dead set on Meyer and when they didn't get him, it seemed like they were content to stick it out with Herman for at least another year. Maybe Texas (or some of their rogue boosters) have been talking to Kelly, but like others said, who is to say he would even want to go? Given that he just got the extension before this season, maybe this is him getting negotiating leverage for some of the other things he wants like maybe more pay for his assistants, more analyst and staff positions, getting private jet usage for his coaches, or facility upgrades.

All of that said, if he does want to go, I wouldn't be too upset. I'm not arguing he should be fired or anything like that, but he has brought the program to a position where the best of the up-and-coming coaches want the job. So if news were to come out tomorrow that Kelly was leaving for the Texas job, we could probably have the introductory press conference for our choice of either Fickell or Campbell by Monday.

I just can't see it happening. He's brought the program back among the best and has made pretty good money to live off of. Doing a rebuild at his age doesn't seem all that attractive unless it was a Mack Brown situation where he was out of it for a few years and got the itch to come back.

 

[NDRock]

Kelly recruits?

You think those 3 stars land themselves?

 

[SouthSideChiDomer]

I just can't see it happening. He's brought the program back among the best and has made pretty good money to live off of. Doing a rebuild at his age doesn't seem all that attractive unless it was a Mack Brown situation where he was out of it for a few years and got the itch to come back.

I guess I could see it if we lose to Alabama again and Kelly thinks he has done everything he can to reach our ceiling with the restrictions the administration places on us. In that case, he might feel like he can have a respectable exit because he is leaving the team in a good position, so he will likely be remembered well. And then it might be one last challenge for him to bring another blue blood program back to a respectable level. It reminds me of that quote that achieving is fun, but maintaining is work. When people look back on Kelly's legacy, he will be remembered as a good coach because he has so many wins, but not as a great coach because he doesn't have an FBS national championship. If he were able to bring three different FBS teams to undefeated seasons and NY6 bowls, he might not be remembered in the same tier as Meyer, Saban, and Sweeney, but he would probably be as highly ranked as any other coach still around right now.

 

[Hammer Of The Gods]

just for fun. say he does go somewhere else.

whos a viable option? Bill Obrien? There is literally no one out there. That has a 'name'