Brian Kelly Revisited (RIP BOZO)

[Sherm Sticky]

We need someone who can coach up the talent that we have. He's done that at WF. Sounds good to me.

Right get the max out of his players. Defense is an attitude and effort.


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[dwshade]

Anyone read that 247 article hinting that the next DC may be Elko from Wake Forest? Solid DC everywhere he went. Wake's D looked pretty good against FSU the other weekend.

Elko would be a solid choice.

 

[fightingirish26]

It's been a little while since BK got hired, so I'm not 100% sure he said this, but didn't he say at the start of his tenure that he could manufacture offense but he had to recruit for defense. Seems like we've been recruiting a lot more projects on defense lately and it's starting to show

 

[NDPhilly]

Elko recently followed ND offensive analyst Matthew Mitchell on Twitter. He follows a bunch of coaches but still this is somewhat noteworthy I guess.

 

[TDHeysus]

Weakest schedule in decades, as we are reminded yet again today. 2-5. And just yesterday our clueless AD said everything was fine.

The program is a joke.

You should start a Jack Swarbrick Revisited thread, and a poll or 2; or 17.

 

[BobbyMac]

Elko would be a solid choice.

Another coach used to working with and recruiting UR and 2 star talent. Yay.

2014-current DC, Wake Forest
2009-13 DC, Bowling Green
2006-08 Asst Coach, Hofstra
2004-05 Asst Coach, Richmond
2002-03 Asst Coach, Fordham
2001 Asst Coach, US Merchant Marine Academy
2000 Asst Coach, Pennsylvania
1999 Asst Coach, Stony Book

 

[tko]

Let's go get Randy Edsall.

 

[dwshade]

Another coach used to working with and recruiting UR and 2 star talent. Yay.

2014-current DC, Wake Forest
2009-13 DC, Bowling Green
2006-08 Asst Coach, Hofstra
2004-05 Asst Coach, Richmond
2002-03 Asst Coach, Fordham
2001 Asst Coach, US Merchant Marine Academy
2000 Asst Coach, Pennsylvania
1999 Asst Coach, Stony Book

Elko won the DC of the week award two weeks when his defense completely shut down Syracuse potent offense. Held FSU to 17 points. Five of his WF players have been drafted by the NFL. Wake has played great defense under Elko and that is despite an ineffective offense which continually puts pressure on the defense. People in college football circles know how good of a coach this guy is. Not to mention how well they played defense against us last year. We won 28-7 but the offense only generated 282 yards total.

 

[Sherm Sticky]

Ralph Friedgen...Mark Mangino...? I like big guys, what can I say. That is what she said.


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[irishtrain]

The problem with Notre Dame (if you think it is a problem) is the fact that the admn will not do what has been done in the past to win, and win big year in and year out. They will never go back to what Alabama or any other king pin program is doing today and have people on campus just to win a football game. I've made peace with this and just expect much less out of my sports entity. Sad but true- they are happy with this mess and will try to convince the fans that next years 8/4 record and Alamo bowl bid means progress. Its Marketing 101. All this rhetoric cant solve the issue that you cant be semi Ivy League on one end and win against minor league pros. Its rather simple when you break it down this way. Kelly is a great coach but this about all that can be expected today in this scenario. Notre Dame is not going to change just to win a national title.

 

[T Town Tommy]

The problem with Notre Dame (if you think it is a problem) is the fact that the admn will not do what has been done in the past to win, and win big year in and year out. They will never go back to what Alabama or any other king pin program is doing today and have people on campus just to win a football game. I've made peace with this and just expect much less out of my sports entity. Sad but true- they are happy with this mess and will try to convince the fans that next years 8/4 record and Alamo bowl bid means progress. Its Marketing 101. All this rhetoric cant solve the issue that you cant be semi Ivy League on one end and win against minor league pros. Its rather simple when you break it down this way. Kelly is a great coach but this about all that can be expected today in this scenario. Notre Dame is not going to change just to win a national title.

Again, you just post excuse after excuse as to why ND won't do this or do that all the while mentioning Bama in your remarks. What exactly is Bama doing, or Notre Dame not doing? There is no reason that Notre Dame can't be a top 10 team year in and year out. None.

 

[cody1smith]

Again, you just post excuse after excuse as to why ND won't do this or do that all the while mentioning Bama in your remarks. What exactly is Bama doing, or Notre Dame not doing? There is no reason that Notre Dame can't be a top 10 team year in and year out. None.

Oh boy. This is gonna get goid

 

[T Town Tommy]

Oh boy. This is gonna get goid

Why? As my Bama friend bishop posted in a different thread, it amazes those of us that cheer for other schools to hear this tiring argument from some Irish fans. Focus on the positives and build upon that instead of focusing on the negatives. Notre Dame can be a perennial top 10 program every year. And that has nothing to do with what Bama, OSU, Michigan, Stanford, or any other program does or does not do.

 

[mick2]

Why? As my Bama friend bishop posted in a different thread, it amazes those of us that cheer for other schools to hear this tiring argument from some Irish fans. Focus on the positives and build upon that instead of focusing on the negatives. Notre Dame can be a perennial top 10 program every year. And that has nothing to do with what Bama, OSU, Michigan, Stanford, or any other program does or does not do.

It's that we don't do what those programs do. And still have to try and compete with. Year to year schollys, grey shirt, blue shirt, juco transfers, start players that have committed crimes, pay their players.

It's not tired and old. It's reality.

 

[IrishLax]

Memory lane...
<iframe width="640" height="360" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/THh55bPVBUI?start=117" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

WTF happened to this team?

 

[mick2]

Memory lane...
<iframe width="640" height="360" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/THh55bPVBUI?start=117" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

WTF happened to this team?

Uhh they graduated bro. That was a culmination of senior laden stud defense. Three to four NFL starters on that D alone.

We'll get back there.

 

[Irish Insanity]

Oh boy. This is gonna get goid

Both of the Bama fans on this site have been fairly honest the last few weeks in regards to this program and Brian Kelly. As much as I hate to admit it, a lot of what they say is correct.

It's that we don't do what those programs do. And still have to try and compete with. Year to year schollys, grey shirt, blue shirt, juco transfers, start players that have committed crimes, pay their players.

It's not tired and old. It's reality.

That BS. We all know that other programs toe the line, some cross it, and we refuse to. But they aren't fielding a team of convicted felons. And we've also had our fair share of 'questionable' issues with players in recent times. So many fans just keep rolling out excuse after excuse. There's no reason we continue to make excuses for, and accept, mediocrity. Doing both is a big part of the problem.

 

[kmoose]

Why? As my Bama friend bishop posted in a different thread, it amazes those of us that cheer for other schools to hear this tiring argument from some Irish fans.

What argument is that, exactly? That Notre Dame does it differently from other schools, and focuses on academics as much as athletics? Because that's a truth (that they are different from most schools in the depth of their commitment to academics). How much it affects the play on the field is open to debate, but the assertion is not false.

Focus on the positives and build upon that instead of focusing on the negatives.

Many of us do. But we are still cognizant of the limitations that the University places on its football program.

Notre Dame can be a perennial top 10 program every year.

Ohio State and Alabama are the current gold standard in CFB. Ohio State failed to finish in the Top 10 of the AP poll in 2011 and 2013. Alabama failed to finish in the Top 10 in the AP Poll in 2003, 2004, 2006, and 2007. But if your point is that ND can be(at least) in that second tier of teams every year, and in the top tier in many years, then I would agree.

 

[philipm31]

Both of the Bama fans on this site have been fairly honest the last few weeks in regards to this program and Brian Kelly. As much as I hate to admit it, a lot of what they say is correct.



That BS. We all know that other programs toe the line, some cross it, and we refuse to. But they aren't fielding a team of convicted felons. And we've also had our fair share of 'questionable' issues with players in recent times. So many fans just keep rolling out excuse after excuse. There's not reason we continue to make excuses for, and accept, mediocrity. Doing both is why is a big part of the problem.

Exactly.

Frustrating as hell.

I am sure that in 2012 everyone thought that ND would be a Top 5 team for another five or six years because of BK and the administration.

How quickly people return the same excuses that they had been using for decades before Lou and after Lou. It gets old, folks.

It is just simply time to move on from BK. He rebuilt ND into a respected power again, but now we need someone to get us over the hump. Stop living in the past, which includes these tired excuses.

 

[GATTACA!]

If we had Saban or Meyer or even Harbaugh we would be top 5 right now. We have enough talent.

 

[EddytoNow]

Brian Kelly has difficulty closing the deal on top line recruits. A number of factors play into this. Some are institutional (foreign language requirement, high academic standards, annual suspensions, negative recruiting by competitors, etc.). Some are directly due to Brian Kelly (reluctance to play talented younger players, poor coaching by assistants, lack of player development, Kelly's red-faced tirades, stubbornness in sticking with under-performing veterans, etc.)

A student-athlete of average academic ability has to question his ability to make the grades at Notre Dame. When he sees the annual academic suspensions and withdrawals, he has to question his own ability to do acceptable work at Notre Dame. Our competitors are sure to point out Notre Dame's multuiple academic suspensions on an annual basis. Prospective athletes are also likely to be turned off by the foreign language requirement. There is little Notre Dame can due in the academic area short of lowering admission standards and reducing the number of academic suspensions. I, for one, don't see Notre Dame doing either.

Prospective athletes might also be turned off by seeing a number of 4 and 5 star recruits sitting on Notre Dame's bench for 2-3 years before getting an opportunity to play. Other schools competing for the same player are sure to point out Nyles Morgan sitting behind an inferior athlete for two years. They are sure to point out top 5 quarterback recruit, Brandon Wimbush, sitting for two and possibly three years behind Deshone Kizer before getting an opportunity to play. They are sure to point out the lack of development in Notre Dame's defensive backfield. They are sure to point out the lack of development along the defensive line.

You can call it what you will, but a top defensive recruit would be foolish to go to Notre Dame given the failure of the defense under Brian Kelly's tenure. Ultimately, the performance of the whole team falls back on Brian Kelly's shoulders. His biggest failure has been his inability to hire a quality defensive coaching staff led by a quality defensive coordinator. He will probably survive this year, but his future will depend upon his ability to correct the defensive failures.

 

[DCirishfan]

Brian Kelly has difficulty closing the deal on top line recruits. A number of factors play into this. Some are institutional (foreign language requirement, high academic standards, annual suspensions, negative recruiting by competitors, etc.). Some are directly due to Brian Kelly (reluctance to play talented younger players, poor coaching by assistants, lack of player development, Kelly's red-faced tirades, stubbornness in sticking with under-performing veterans, etc.)

A student-athlete of average academic ability has to question his ability to make the grades at Notre Dame. When he sees the annual academic suspensions and withdrawals, he has to question his own ability to do acceptable work at Notre Dame. Our competitors are sure to point out Notre Dame's multuiple academic suspensions on an annual basis. Prospective athletes are also likely to be turned off by the foreign language requirement. There is little Notre Dame can due in the academic area short of lowering admission standards and reducing the number of academic suspensions. I, for one, don't see Notre Dame doing either.

Prospective athletes might also be turned off by seeing a number of 4 and 5 star recruits sitting on Notre Dame's bench for 2-3 years before getting an opportunity to play. Other schools competing for the same player are sure to point out Nyles Morgan sitting behind an inferior athlete for two years. They are sure to point out top 5 quarterback recruit, Brandon Wimbush, sitting for two and possibly three years behind Deshone Kizer before getting an opportunity to play. They are sure to point out the lack of development in Notre Dame's defensive backfield. They are sure to point out the lack of development along the defensive line.

You can call it what you will, but a top defensive recruit would be foolish to go to Notre Dame given the failure of the defense under Brian Kelly's tenure. Ultimately, the performance of the whole team falls back on Brian Kelly's shoulders. His biggest failure has been his inability to hire a quality defensive coaching staff led by a quality defensive coordinator. He will probably survive this year, but his future will depend upon his ability to correct the defensive failures.

Well said.

 

[DCirishfan]

Ralph Friedgen...Mark Mangino...? I like big guys, what can I say. That is what she said.


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yuck?

 

[DCirishfan]

Let's go get Randy Edsall.

No move unless it's a clear upgrade.

 

[tko]

No move unless it's a clear upgrade.

No italics were necessary for my statement. People wanted him during the post Weis search, which was and still is a joke.

 

[EddytoNow]

Brian Kelly has difficulty closing the deal on top line recruits. A number of factors play into this. Some are institutional (foreign language requirement, high academic standards, annual suspensions, negative recruiting by competitors, etc.). Some are directly due to Brian Kelly (reluctance to play talented younger players, poor coaching by assistants, lack of player development, Kelly's red-faced tirades, stubbornness in sticking with under-performing veterans, etc.)

A student-athlete of average academic ability has to question his ability to make the grades at Notre Dame. When he sees the annual academic suspensions and withdrawals, he has to question his own ability to do acceptable work at Notre Dame. Our competitors are sure to point out Notre Dame's multuiple academic suspensions on an annual basis. Prospective athletes are also likely to be turned off by the foreign language requirement. There is little Notre Dame can due in the academic area short of lowering admission standards and reducing the number of academic suspensions. I, for one, don't see Notre Dame doing either.

Prospective athletes might also be turned off by seeing a number of 4 and 5 star recruits sitting on Notre Dame's bench for 2-3 years before getting an opportunity to play. Other schools competing for the same player are sure to point out Nyles Morgan sitting behind an inferior athlete for two years. They are sure to point out top 5 quarterback recruit, Brandon Wimbush, sitting for two and possibly three years behind Deshone Kizer before getting an opportunity to play. They are sure to point out the lack of development in Notre Dame's defensive backfield. They are sure to point out the lack of development along the defensive line.

You can call it what you will, but a top defensive recruit would be foolish to go to Notre Dame given the failure of the defense under Brian Kelly's tenure. Ultimately, the performance of the whole team falls back on Brian Kelly's shoulders. His biggest failure has been his inability to hire a quality defensive coaching staff led by a quality defensive coordinator. He will probably survive this year, but his future will depend upon his ability to correct the defensive failures.

I didn't know this at the time of my original post, but Donovan Jeter's recent decommitment was reportedly due to a failure on his part to satisfy the foreign language requirement.

 

[IrishLax]

Brian Kelly has difficulty closing the deal on top line recruits. A number of factors play into this. Some are institutional (foreign language requirement, high academic standards, annual suspensions, negative recruiting by competitors, etc.). Some are directly due to Brian Kelly (reluctance to play talented younger players, poor coaching by assistants, lack of player development, Kelly's red-faced tirades, stubbornness in sticking with under-performing veterans, etc.)

A student-athlete of average academic ability has to question his ability to make the grades at Notre Dame. When he sees the annual academic suspensions and withdrawals, he has to question his own ability to do acceptable work at Notre Dame. Our competitors are sure to point out Notre Dame's multuiple academic suspensions on an annual basis. Prospective athletes are also likely to be turned off by the foreign language requirement. There is little Notre Dame can due in the academic area short of lowering admission standards and reducing the number of academic suspensions. I, for one, don't see Notre Dame doing either.

Prospective athletes might also be turned off by seeing a number of 4 and 5 star recruits sitting on Notre Dame's bench for 2-3 years before getting an opportunity to play. Other schools competing for the same player are sure to point out Nyles Morgan sitting behind an inferior athlete for two years. They are sure to point out top 5 quarterback recruit, Brandon Wimbush, sitting for two and possibly three years behind Deshone Kizer before getting an opportunity to play. They are sure to point out the lack of development in Notre Dame's defensive backfield. They are sure to point out the lack of development along the defensive line.

You can call it what you will, but a top defensive recruit would be foolish to go to Notre Dame given the failure of the defense under Brian Kelly's tenure. Ultimately, the performance of the whole team falls back on Brian Kelly's shoulders. His biggest failure has been his inability to hire a quality defensive coaching staff led by a quality defensive coordinator. He will probably survive this year, but his future will depend upon his ability to correct the defensive failures.

This is generally a very good post, but the ultimate conclusion and some of the bolded is very questionable.

1) NFL draft picks and the general amount of talent placed in the NFL tells a different story about "player development" . Harrison Smith raved about his coaching. Same with Will Fuller. Same with a lot of players. ND has put more talent in the NFL under Kelly than all but a few schools. Players are being developed, and being developed on both sides of the ball.

2) Kelly has never been reluctant to play young players. BVG was reluctant to play guys he didn't "trust" and Kelly has made a conscientious move to correct this issue. In fact, he talked about it at length after firing BVG and proof has been in the pudding. Under Diaco this was never the case (see Farley and KVR staring in 2012 on defense with no experience). And it's not been the case on offense. You could make stronger argument that he should be red shirting more guys (see: Okwarax2) than that he "isn't playing young guys." Really, there are only a handful of examples him sticking with an "under performing veteran" and they're almost exclusively on defense under BVG with Joe Schmidt being the one everyone points to.

3) Some people might legitimately be turned off by Kelly's antics in the USF game (he hasn't gone "red face" in 5 years) and by his general coaching style. This is legitimate. But Harbaugh and Saban... who will sign the top two classes this year... are 10x worse, and they still get it done on the trail. So I don't really buy that it's a huge issue.

4) Notre Dame's graduation rates obviously destroy the argument that average kids "can't make it at ND," so there's really no point discussing this. If a recruit is "questioning" that, then they're an idiot. Every school has academic attrition, we just pay attention to ours more closely.

5) The idea that there are tons of high star guys ready to play and not being given the opportunity for no reason is just a fallacy. People look at the Nyles Morgan situation as proof of this, but he's the exception not the rule. Jay Hayes vs Trumbetti... well, Trumbetti was a 4 too and people were complaining that he wasn't playing more behind Okwara (who was simply much better and an NFL caliber player). Sometimes there's a reason someone is sitting. Same with people calling for Redfield over FArley cuz Refield had the stars... guess which one is in the NFL getting snaps and which one is on the street with seemingly no future. And with Hayes, again, Kelly moved to correct that once he ditched BVG. Again, looking at 7 years of results proves this isn't the case overall. Lynch, Tuitt, etc. got reps immediately after getting on campus. Fuller got reps as a frosh. They went to more talented Golson as a RS frosh in 2012 over more experienced Tommy Rees strictly on upside/arm talent.

5B) Wimbush got reps as a true frosh. QBs usually take at least a RS year at every major program. DeShone Kizer was the returning starter coming off a 10 win campaign and was pilled as a top NFL draft pick. There is literally no kid that will look at a (happy) Brandon Wimbush who has the opportunity to be a 3 year starter and say "oh my gosh they did him wrong!" This displays a fundamental misunderstanding of how college QBs are groomed if there is someone good ahead of them. At the point where the team committed to Kizer, they had to sit Wimbush this year to preserve that year of eligibility. Anything else would be malpractice for both him and the team.

6) For the majority of Brian Kelly's tenure, the defense has not been a "failure." It has been a failure for the past 3 seasons. Part of that is recruiting... which is a chicken & egg kind of the thing. If Diaco and Cooks and BVG had recruited harder, then we wouldn't have been stuck with so many roster holes and having to go with the youth movement. If the scheme wasn't terrible under BVG, then the defense would've produced better and it would've been easier for him to attract recruits. No recruits right now care about that past, though. They're waiting to see who the DC hire is. They're looking at early PT... something you're saying doesn't exist, despite the fact that there is a massive youth movement on that side of the ball... and they're looking at player development. If you're a defensive recruit, you'd be foolish NOT to look at Notre Dame if your goal is to get PT and get to the NFL. Or you're interested in an elite education. Or (insert a number of other attractive aspects)... as long as the DC is someone you believe in, and that DC is a good salesman. There was a serious issue under BVG of many players questioning whether they were being put in a position to succeed that did not exist under Diaco/Cooks/Elliot/Elston. The new staff... whether or not Lyght, Elston, or Gimore is retained... has to re-establish the credibility Notre Dame had for the first four years under Kelly.

 

[BobbyMac]

There are plenty of kids out there EVERY YEAR ND can get into school that can keep its D in the Top 15 just like in 2012 as long as they have the proper coaching.

2016 Total Defense:
BC #7
Wisconsin #9
Duke #37

2016 Scoring Defense:
Wisconsin #4
Wake Forest #16
Stanford #23
Vandy #29
Northwestern & Duke tied at #32

2015 Total Defense:
BC #1
Wisconsin #2
Northwestern #8
Vandy #27

2015 Scoring defense:
Wisconsin #1
BC #4
Northwestern #7
Vandy #22

2014 Total yards:
Stanford #5
Wisconsin #9
BC #11
UVa #28

2014 Scoring Defense:
Stanford #2
Wisconsin #13
BC #18
Duke #20

2013 Total Defense:
Wisconsin #7
Stanford #16
Vandy #23
Rice #30

2013 Scoring Defense:
Wisconsin #6
Stanford #10

The current Wisconsin starters are made up of 1 4star, 7 3stars, 2 2stars and 1 UR players. ND offered none of them. Are they better than ND's players from a recruiting pov or are properly prepared in a system that matches their abilities?

 

[IrishLax]

There are plenty of kids out there EVERY YEAR ND can get into school that can keep its D in the Top 15 just like in 2012 as long as they have the proper coaching.

2016 Total Defense:
BC #7
Wisconsin #9
Duke #37

2016 Scoring Defense:
Wisconsin #4
Wake Forest #16
Stanford #23
Vandy #29
Northwestern & Duke tied at #32

2015 Total Defense:
BC #1
Wisconsin #2
Northwestern #8
Vandy #27

2015 Scoring defense:
Wisconsin #1
BC #4
Northwestern #7
Vandy #22

2014 Total yards:
Stanford #5
Wisconsin #9
BC #11
UVa #28

2014 Scoring Defense:
Stanford #2
Wisconsin #13
BC #18
Duke #20

2013 Total Defense:
Wisconsin #7
Stanford #16
Vandy #23
Rice #30

2013 Scoring Defense:
Wisconsin #6
Stanford #10

The current Wisconsin starters are made up of 1 4star, 7 3stars, 2 2stars and 1 UR players. ND offered none of them. Are they better than ND's players from a recruiting pov or are properly prepared in a system that matches their abilities?

Right, it's all about identity, continuity, and recruiting to be successful in your identity. Diaco had an identity and got enough playmakers (by recruiting hard) in the 2011 class that even with attrition they contributed in major roles with the Weis guys on that 2012 team.

Problem with BVG was that the identity didn't work... and then he didn't have/didn't go get the players to fit it, either.

MSU proved for years you can run a very good defense with strictly 3-star players that no one else really wanted. Same with a lot of schools. I fully believe that Notre Dame can play very strong defense without going into the deep south and signing a bunch of 5 DL... but for that to happen, you need the right guy who knows how to do the whole-greater-than-sum-of-the-parts thing not just develop individual players to be good and put them in a scheme where their talents are minimized.

 

[NDgradstudent]

ND Volleyball has been completely turned around in one year after hiring a new (elite) coach. After going 13-18, 6-23, and then 7-25 in Coach McLaughlin's first year, they are sitting at 18-4 so far this season. Coaching. Coaching. Coaching.

P.S. Swarbrick only deserves credit for not screwing up that coaching hire. McLaughlin used to be an assistant here and his wife went here. He wanted to come.

Anyway, coaching.