Brian Kelly Revisited (RIP BOZO)

[GCND]

Didn't Kelly "like" a tweet about firing BVG? As a 40 year old, who gives a shit about Twitter.

People younger than you.

 

[NDRock]

People younger than you.

Touché

 

[NDRock]

I'm arguing with the considerable portion of the fanbase that believes it is "impossible to win at ND" because of the academic restrictions which result in less talent. That's simply not true.

I do think it's tougher for ND to consistently battle to NCs than ever but that's probably true for most "blue blood" programs. Scholarship restrictions are part of that.

The last time ND was elite, we had a huge advantage of being known as the school who was on TV every week. Holtz had the #1 recruiting class for 4 straight years and only won one title. You could make the argument he underperformed relative to his talent.

 

[NDgradstudent]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Kelly: “To be 2-5 and to outscore your opponents has got to be one of the craziest stats in America.”</p>— Irish Illustrated (@PeteSampson_) <a href="https://twitter.com/PeteSampson_/status/787722638483415040">October 16, 2016</a></blockquote>
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Nothing crazy about it...that's what happens when you beat two awful teams badly and lose to the other semi-awful ones. This guy is out of his mind.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

Kelly just needs to go. Not with anger, animosity, or vitriol. Kelly just needs to move along to what is next, as does ND.

And no one needs to criticize any current ND players; that constitutes 'things that you may wish you hadn't said, later on.'

I bet there are ten really strong choices out there for head coach at Notre Dame.

 

[NDinBoston]

"Fresh starts - MSU and ND trade head coaches midseason".

 

[Sherm Sticky]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Kelly: “To be 2-5 and to outscore your opponents has got to be one of the craziest stats in America.”</p>— Irish Illustrated (@PeteSampson_) <a href="https://twitter.com/PeteSampson_/status/787722638483415040">October 16, 2016</a></blockquote>
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Nothing crazy about it...that's what happens when you beat two awful teams badly and lose to the other semi-awful ones. This guy is out of his mind.

That awful Syracuse team just beat Va Tech by 14.

Kelly just needs to go. Not with anger, animosity, or vitriol. Kelly just needs to move along to what is next, as does ND.



And no one needs to criticize any current ND players; that constitutes 'things that you may wish you hadn't said, later on.'



I bet there are ten really strong choices out there for head coach at Notre Dame.

I'm finally on this side. Kelly and Notre Dame need to mutually part ways. No drama.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[kmoose]

Nor do OSU and Michigan this year. They are doing okay. Coaching, coaching, coaching.

Shirley you can't be serious?

Ohio State's last 4 recruiting class rankings:

2013: #2
2014: #3
2015: #7
2016: #4

 

[ulukinatme]

Shirley you can't be serious?

Ohio State's last 4 recruiting class rankings:

2013: #2
2014: #3
2015: #7
2016: #4

Recruiting classes don't always translate into success.

 

[kmoose]

Recruiting classes don't always translate into success.

But that wasn't the point. Someone said that ND doesn't have elite talent, and NDGradStudent tried to say "Neither does OSU or Michigan"......... but OSU CLEARLY has elite talent.

 

[ulukinatme]

But that wasn't the point. Someone said that ND doesn't have elite talent, and NDGradStudent tried to say "Neither does OSU or Michigan"......... but OSU CLEARLY has elite talent.

Yeah, I was kidding. OSU definitely has talent and they're using it.

 

[NDgradstudent]

But that wasn't the point. Someone said that ND doesn't have elite talent, and NDGradStudent tried to say "Neither does OSU or Michigan"......... but OSU CLEARLY has elite talent.

I wasn't saying OSU doesn't have elite talent, I was saying they don't have 17 five stars on their roster like Bama does.

Anyway, I'm not sure what your point is. The gap between our record and OSU's is not mainly explained by recruiting rankings, but by coaching. Same with Michigan (and their talent is not appreciably greater than ours).

 

[kmoose]

I wasn't saying OSU doesn't have elite talent, I was saying they don't have 17 five stars on their roster like Bama does.

Anyway, I'm not sure what your point is. The gap between our record and OSU's is not mainly explained by recruiting rankings, but by coaching. Same with Michigan (and their talent is not appreciably greater than ours).

You replied to this:

At this point it really doesn't matter if the issue is a recruiting problem as Kelly recruited every kid on the roster. It does point to the fact that we probably don't have the "elite" talent like some think we do.

with this:

Nor do OSU and Michigan this year. They are doing okay. Coaching, coaching, coaching.

We don't have as much elite talent as Bama, USC, etc., but we are still 9th on the list. Are we 9th or higher in the polls right now? How many times have we finished in the top 10 under Kelly?

If our only losses under Kelly were to Bama, OSU, FSU, and Clemson, then I wouldn't be calling for Kelly's job.

Sorry if I misread it, but it sure looks like you were saying that OSU and Michigan don't have "elite" talent........

 

[NDgradstudent]

Sorry if I misread it, but it sure looks like you were saying that OSU and Michigan don't have "elite" talent........

I should have phrased it better.

 

[Junkhead]

Even though we don't play either scUM or THE Ohio state university, it's gotten worse in the midwest for Kelly. Having Harbaugh at UM, and Urban at OSU, does not help ND one bit. That said, in the new poll, they are #2 and #3. ND is 2-5 after playing a weak schedule. BK might have been the guy 7 years ago, but now it seems like ND needs to have their own homerun hire. I have no idea who, but I no longer think BK is the guy.

 

[mick2]

I think we can be a consistent 10 win team with the occasional playoff run. Our talent isn't that far below somewhere like OSU or Alabama or Clemson or OU or BSU (they've averaged 11 wins since 1999) or MSU or Oregon or LSU or TCU or USC or Wisconsin or FSU or.......

I think Kelly was a great coach. I'm not sure what happened, but he's not what he used to be. I think he can win a NC, just not at ND. I think it's in both parties best interest to go our separate ways. From Kelly's perspective, he's admitted before there's a shelf life to ND coaches, at what point does what's going on affect his future value somewhere else? From ND's perspective, this isn't acceptable. Kelly's definitely build the program back up, but it's time to turn it over to someone that can deliver the goods consistently.

I think our talent last year was on par with some of those programs it showed when we went toe to toe with clemson.

I think this year the team has lost a lot of talent and more importantly lost a lot of experience. Which puts us behind those other programs. I thought the loss of talent and experience could be masked w/ a great qb. But hasn't been the case.

It's year 7 and we're incredibly thin at places and I don't think it's through lack of recruiting efforts. Kelly has recruited extremely well given the restrictions at Nd. Until we can stockpile recruits and/or run a roster like the bamas and others do we will not be able to reload and consistently put up double digit win seasons.

 

[ThePiombino]

I'm arguing with the considerable portion of the fanbase that believes it is "impossible to win at ND" because of the academic restrictions which result in less talent. That's simply not true.

How do the academic requirements not directly result in making winning difficult?

Kelly just needs to go. Not with anger, animosity, or vitriol. Kelly just needs to move along to what is next, as does ND.

And no one needs to criticize any current ND players; that constitutes 'things that you may wish you hadn't said, later on.'

I bet there are ten really strong choices out there for head coach at Notre Dame.

Dying to hear the 10 better options for ND HC that are able/willing. Whenever you're ready...

 

[Bogtrotter07]

How do the academic requirements not directly result in making winning difficult?



Dying to hear the 10 better options for ND HC that are able/willing. Whenever you're ready...

In addition to everyone that beat Kelly this year? And the two that didn't, including Dino Babers? Fleck, Fritz, Carey, Hudspeth, Miles, in a few years Candle, and Sanford. Tressel, Narduzzi, Patterson, and the list goes on.

 

[ThePiombino]

In addition to everyone that beat Kelly this year? And the two that didn't, including Dino Babers? Fleck, Fritz, Carey, Hudspeth, Miles, in a few years Candle, and Sanford. Tressel, Narduzzi, Patterson, and the list goes on.

lol - so once you beat a HC, you're automatically more well-suited to run their program? This is NCAAF, not Highlander. Take it down a notch.

 

[Buster Bluth]

Age is the only concern with Tressel.

His offense was anemic at times. I don't get the love for Tressel here.

I'd much rather get a stud DC than roll dice with whatever Tressel may have left.

Plus I doubt he'd want to tarnish his status in Ohio as a living god. He could run for governor and win by 15 points.

 

[FightingIrishLover7]

Would anyone here take David Shaw?

 

[tko]

Would anyone here take David Shaw?

Not a chance in hell. He's a smug SOB who is a lifetime Stanford guy. He falls into the Harbaugh, Fitzgerald, Spurrier camp of coaches that will never coach at ND. He's a hater and that's reality. I'll be curious to see how Stanford does the rest of the way. I think the tide is finally turning for them to slide back down in the ranks, especially once McCaffrey is gonzo.

 

[RDU Irish]

His offense was anemic at times. I don't get the love for Tressel here.

I'd much rather get a stud DC than roll dice with whatever Tressel may have left.

Plus I doubt he'd want to tarnish his status in Ohio as a living god. He could run for governor and win by 15 points.

I was here until watching the Stanford game. Blamed NC State on Kelly but two games in a row since Kelly supposedly focused on defense our offense was just pathetic. Really thought Sanford would take some control and call some great games. Do we mark that up to him not being trusted with the keys to car, in which case I ask WTF is he there for? Or are they incapable to take over which could be any number of factors that all point to the HC as well. How exactly do we think a rock-star DC fixes things if our rock star OC is not successful with an NFL QB?

And youth is no excuse for our O-line. We have talent waiting behind talent yet they are crapping the bed horribly. The one unit that should definitely be in re-load, not rebuild mode is just not very good. We know they are well coached - so WTF is their excuse? Is it because they practiced for 10 months against BVGs ineptness?

 

[NDgradstudent]

How do the academic requirements not directly result in making winning difficult?

I used to think they made it much harder. I still think they make it slightly harder, but that it is not structurally hindering the success of the program. I compared the position rankings of ND's offered recruits on 247 with those of OSU and Alabama from 2013-2016. The full results are available at the links, but the bottom line results were these:

Average rank
Bama: 13
ND: 14.94
OSU: 15.6

Top 10 players as % of total offers
Bama: .51
ND: .45
OSU: .43

Now, how could we be offering players of this caliber if academic restrictions were such a huge hinderance? Now, we aren't signing as many of these guys as Bama or OSU, obviously, but so what? That is not the fault of admissions.

 

[kmoose]

I used to think they made it much harder. I still think they make it slightly harder, but that it is not structurally hindering the success of the program. I compared the position rankings of ND's offered recruits on 247 with those of OSU and Alabama from 2013-2016. The full results are available at the links, but the bottom line results were these:

Average rank
Bama: 13
ND: 14.94
OSU: 15.6

Top 10 players as % of total offers
Bama: .51
ND: .45
OSU: .43

Now, how could we be offering players of this caliber if academic restrictions were such a huge hinderance? Now, we aren't signing as many of these guys as Bama or OSU, obviously, but so what? That is not the fault of admissions.

I think there are genuine academic obstacles to fielding a dominant football program, but they aren't in the admissions of athletes: They are in the work required once you get on campus. You think that Urban Meyer and Nick Saban aren't telling kids, "You can go to Notre Dame and have a great experience. But here's the thing; you are going to have to spend XX hours on academics at ND. That's not going to leave you much time to focus on football. You want to (make it to the NFL, get drafted in the 1st round, be the first pick in the draft, generic football dream), don't you? Well, if you do, then don't you think you would rather be somewhere where you could focus more of your time and energy on achieving that? You'll have to actually do classwork here at Football Factory University, but we structure things so that you have plenty of time to devote to following your NFL dreams, too."

It's not the higher admissions standards that sets Notre Dame apart. Many schools have stopped allowing the Percy Snows and Dexter Manleys of the world in. It's the actual education that athletes receive, once on campus, that does.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

lol - so once you beat a HC, you're automatically more well-suited to run their program? This is NCAAF, not Highlander. Take it down a notch.

No, you asked me for a list. In fact I could have done more, and the bulk of the list I provided haven't even played Kelly, (at least recently.)

I used the anyone from this year to show that with the way Kelly has performed for the last (almost whole season now) the bar isn't so high.

I agree with Buster, let's get a defensive guru. My hope is Sanford stays.

I would like Narduzzi, personally. I bet he could be had.

 

[T Town Tommy]

I think there are genuine academic obstacles to fielding a dominant football program, but they aren't in the admissions of athletes: They are in the work required once you get on campus. You think that Urban Meyer and Nick Saban aren't telling kids, "You can go to Notre Dame and have a great experience. But here's the thing; you are going to have to spend XX hours on academics at ND. That's not going to leave you much time to focus on football. You want to (make it to the NFL, get drafted in the 1st round, be the first pick in the draft, generic football dream), don't you? Well, if you do, then don't you think you would rather be somewhere where you could focus more of your time and energy on achieving that? You'll have to actually do classwork here at Football Factory University, but we structure things so that you have plenty of time to devote to following your NFL dreams, too."

It's not the higher admissions standards that sets Notre Dame apart. Many schools have stopped allowing the Percy Snows and Dexter Manleys of the world in. It's the actual education that athletes receive, once on campus, that does.

Time to lay this excuse aside as well. Your comments would have rang true 25 years ago, and there are some schools today such as UNC that have not seemed to comprehend the education side of their athletes. But, for the most part, if an athlete isn't getting an education in college today, it typically isn't the university or coach's fault.

 

[IrishSteelhead]

lol - so once you beat a HC, you're automatically more well-suited to run their program? This is NCAAF, not Highlander. Take it down a notch.

Holy crap that was funny.

 

[gkIrish]

lol - so once you beat a HC, you're automatically more well-suited to run their program? This is NCAAF, not Highlander. Take it down a notch.

 

[Irish YJ]