Brian Kelly Revisited (RIP BOZO)

[irishff1014]

Jack isn't going to hire one of the big guns so if they do fire Kelly 8-4 ND football team. We should probably get used to it.

 

[Number3rockin]

Play calling against nc st was enough for me! BK hired terrible DC, this season is all on him. BK reminds me of a boxer who is woozy, looking for a haymaker to get back in fight. But he's to far gone and his hands start coming down leaving head exposed. Stanford(not a good team) knockout punch! It's time Irish fans. I'm on team fleck, his players play hard for him.

 

[Irish Insanity]

A hypothetical for all the "fire Kelly now" posters that no one has discussed (probably bc it won't happen)...where do all of you stand if BK is not fired and he hires a good DC and we go 11-1 and make the playoffs next year? Will 2016 be the anomaly in your eyes or would 2017 be the anomaly and you would still want someone else?

It'll still show up as the one decent season in the middle of the 5 mediocre ones. Unless he can provide consistency, which its clear he can't, I'm ready to move on.

 

[ickythump1225]

Interesting opinion. So if we make the playoffs and are one of the top four teams in the country but get blasted and don't win the NC, you would still let him go? i'm not at that point yet but I can definitely understand since its been almost 30 years and close isn't good enough.

If we got blasted by Alabama/OSU/Michigan/whoever in the playoffs, were we ever really a top 4 team? CFB is subjective and the panel is human probably factors other issues (ratings, $$$$, etc.) into the equation.

Nonetheless, at this rate BK isn't going to make it to the end of the year. My question is, when would Jack pull the trigger? How bad does it have to get? Look at our schedule I could see us losing every single game (yes I could see us losing to Army). At this point Navy>>>us. That is how bad things have gotten. I don't want to hear arguments about talent, Navy is a better team than we are right now. So how bad do things have to get for Jack to pull the trigger in season? I think moving on in the offseason is fait accompli at this point. But what would it take to fire him in season?

 

[mick2]

It'll still show up as the one decent season in the middle of the 5 mediocre ones. Unless he can provide consistency, which its clear he can't, I'm ready to move on.

It sucks to admit this, but I'm not sure ND can be a consistent 10/11/12 win team. We arent Alabama or osu who sacrifice all sense of morals in exchange for wins.

I think it is going to take some 8-5 & 9-3 seasons to build a team that is experienced and talented enough to go 12-0. In 2012 we had a team like that. Last year we had a team like that. All other years were teams that were working towards that goal.

Never expected a season like this though. The team just can't seem to put a complete game together.

 

[ickythump1225]

I still laugh every time I see retaining BK as the leading option, what a joke. Everyone is so afraid of how bad things could get if we let got of BK, they are blind to how bad things already are right now. It is like this fanbase is suffering from battered women's syndrome or something. "Sure he slaps me around, but...there are so many bad men out there."

This isn't the same thing as UGA letting go of Richt who was pretty consistent in posting 10+ wins on the board. For all of his flaws (which stem mostly from late game decision making and clock management) Richt is a superior coach to BK. Richt never lost to teams he was supposed to beat and routinely housed them by 5 touchdowns. BK's tenure is so littered with bad losses it is hard to pick out the worst one. Northwestern 2014 stands out to me.

 

[rtrn2glory]

I still laugh every time I see retaining BK as the leading option, what a joke. Everyone is so afraid of how bad things could get if we let got of BK, they are blind to how bad things already are right now. It is like this fanbase is suffering from battered women's syndrome or something. "Sure he slaps me around, but...there are so many bad men out there."

This isn't the same thing as UGA letting go of Richt who was pretty consistent in posting 10+ wins on the board. For all of his flaws (which stem mostly from late game decision making and clock management) Richt is a superior coach to BK. Richt never lost to teams he was supposed to beat and routinely housed them by 5 touchdowns. BK's tenure is so littered with bad losses it is hard to pick out the worst one. Northwestern 2014 stands out to me.

How could you put that one over the south Florida loss in 2011?

 

[NDRock]

It sucks to admit this, but I'm not sure ND can be a consistent 10/11/12 win team. We arent Alabama or osu who sacrifice all sense of morals in exchange for wins.

I think it is going to take some 8-5 & 9-3 seasons to build a team that is experienced and talented enough to go 12-0. In 2012 we had a team like that. Last year we had a team like that. All other years were teams that were working towards that goal.

Never expected a season like this though. The team just can't seem to put a complete game together.

With the right coach, we could be a better version of what Stanford has done the last 8 years or so.

 

[rtrn2glory]

Play calling against nc st was enough for me! BK hired terrible DC, this season is all on him. BK reminds me of a boxer who is woozy, looking for a haymaker to get back in fight. But he's to far gone and his hands start coming down leaving head exposed. Stanford(not a good team) knockout punch! It's time Irish fans. I'm on team fleck, his players play hard for him.

I wouldn't be mad with that. He's young and enthusiastic, at this point it's worth a shot. He's going to get a job somewhere after this season I know that. Illinois prolly wishing they would have held off on lovie

 

[NDRock]

2014 composite ranking via 247: 11
2015 composite rankings via 247: 13
2016 composite rankings via 247: 15

Only year that was a top 5 class composite was 2013.

You are wrong that this team has consistent top 5 talent. Should they be better than 2-5, obviously. But they are not as talented as you think they are.

Agree. The last three classes are closer to being 20th as they are to being a top 3 class. Kelly has done a good job in recruiting but we definitely don't have elite talent.

 

[ickythump1225]

How could you put that one over the south Florida loss in 2011?

Because in 2011 I was still being patient with BK and knew he was still building. By 2014 I thought we had moved beyond losing to absolute HORSESH*T teams like Northwestern. We also lost that game because Cam McDaniel fumbled while we were busy trying to ice the game.

That last sentence sums up everything wrong with the BK era: inability to close out games, losing to bad teams, and a strange affinity for "gritty" players like McDaniel and Schmidt (which reminds me of the Braves affinity for shitty veteran players because they bring "veteran's presence"), mind boggling self-inflicted wounds, and just frustration.

 

[rtrn2glory]

Because in 2011 I was still being patient with BK and knew he was still building. By 2014 I thought we had moved beyond losing to absolute HORSESH*T teams like Northwestern. We also lost that game because Cam McDaniel fumbled while we were busy trying to ice the game.

That last sentence sums up everything wrong with the BK era: inability to close out games, losing to bad teams, and a strange affinity for "gritty" players like McDaniel and Schmidt (which reminds me of the Braves affinity for shitty veteran players because they bring "veteran's presence"), mind boggling self-inflicted wounds, and just frustration.

Fair enough. What's sad is we have multiple experiences to reference to.

 

[rtrn2glory]

Here's a name.... What about Greg schiano? Defensive guy who has experience in the college game however his name did surface recently in the penn state scandal and I could see that scaring away nd's administration

 

[kmoose]

I'm telling you guys............ we want Jim Tressel. The guy made a huge mistake and lied on an affidavit, but look how many former players came out in defense of the guy. And he's paid his price, per the NCAA. He can obviously coach, at both the D-IAA AND the highest levels of D-IA big boy football. He's got the "political" savvy that an ND coach needs. You don't think he earned the nickname "The Senator" because he is awkward with boosters, the media, school administrators, and fans, do you?

He would be absolute gold on IE, because people would be on here crying and moaning about how boring his offense is, while we just keep winning week after week after week after week after....

You get the idea.

 

[mick2]

With the right coach, we could be a better version of what Stanford has done the last 8 years or so.

Kind of.

I think it takes more than a coach. Stanford has also invested in its program to win, and definitely made concessions for harbaugh which has continued under Shaw.

I just don't see us on a level playing field with the rest of the country.

Also, how much better can you get than Stanford the last few years? Sadly I think even that record wouldn't satisfy some of the rabid Irish fans.

 

[rtrn2glory]

I'm telling you guys............ we want Jim Tressel. The guy made a huge mistake and lied on an affidavit, but look how many former players came out in defense of the guy. And he's paid his price, per the NCAA. He can obviously coach, at both the D-IAA AND the highest levels of D-IA big boy football. He's got the "political" savvy that an ND coach needs. You don't think he earned the nickname "The Senator" because he is awkward with boosters, the media, school administrators, and fans, do you?

He would be absolute gold on IE, because people would be on here crying and moaning about how boring his offense is, while we just keep winning week after week after week after week after....

You get the idea.

I don't think he'd take the job if they offered it to him

 

[NDRock]

I'm telling you guys............ we want Jim Tressel. The guy made a huge mistake and lied on an affidavit, but look how many former players came out in defense of the guy. And he's paid his price, per the NCAA. He can obviously coach, at both the D-IAA AND the highest levels of D-IA big boy football. He's got the "political" savvy that an ND coach needs. You don't think he earned the nickname "The Senator" because he is awkward with boosters, the media, school administrators, and fans, do you?

He would be absolute gold on IE, because people would be on here crying and moaning about how boring his offense is, while we just keep winning week after week after week after week after....

You get the idea.

I would be very happy with Tressel. The thing about Kelly is, we got exactly from him what he did at his previous stops. Came in, laid the foundation, and peaked in year 3. He's shown that he cannot sustain a top level program. He's never had to do it before and clearly hasn't learned how.

Tressel on the other hand has proven that he can turn around a program and lead it for sustained excellence. I personally would enjoy some "Tressel ball" where we play tough, disciplined football.

 

[NDRock]

Kind of.

I think it takes more than a coach. Stanford has also invested in its program to win, and definitely made concessions for harbaugh which has continued under Shaw.

I just don't see us on a level playing field with the rest of the country.

Also, how much better can you get than Stanford the last few years? Sadly I think even that record wouldn't satisfy some of the rabid Irish fans.

We can recruit better than Stanford. Essentially, we could be what Harbaugh is going to turn Michigan into. A juggernaut. Harbaugh could definitely do that here.

 

[ickythump1225]

Sadly I think even that record wouldn't satisfy some of the rabid Irish fans.

Well you can't make everyone happy all of the time, but since 2009 Stanford has: (3) 12 win seasons, (3) BCS bowl wins, (2) 11 win seasons, and (3) or (4) Pac-12 titles. That is an elite track record. Only Alabama has been consistently better than Stanford since 2009. If an ND fan wouldn't take that than they are delusional.

 

[kmoose]

I don't think he'd take the job if they offered it to him

I'm not sure. I would understand if he didn't, but he comes from a football family. His dad was a very successful high school and small college (Baldwin-Wallace) coach. His neighbor, growing up, was Lou Groza. He played QB at B/W. And he coached for an awful long time, himself. He's been out of football long enough, maybe, to recharge his batteries and start to yearn for that old adrenaline rush again. Or maybe he's content to spend his last years of work taking on what must be a relatively new challenge? I'd go after him, and hard, either way.

 

[mick2]

Well you can't make everyone happy all of the time, but since 2009 Stanford has: (3) 12 win seasons, (3) BCS bowl wins, (2) 11 win seasons, and (3) or (4) Pac-12 titles. That is an elite track record. Only Alabama has been consistently better than Stanford since 2009. If an ND fan wouldn't take that than they are delusional.

No natty=no happy for most ND fans.

 

[ickythump1225]

I would take Tressel in a heartbeat because I watched him do what we couldn't do: take an undermanned midwestern team and beat a vastly more talented southern powerhouse in the NCG. OSU had no business being within 3 touchdowns of that Miami team.

 

[NDinBoston]

2016 247 Team Talent Composite:
2016 College Football Team Talent Composite

This is a full roster composite. Big difference in the number of 5*s.

1. Alabama (17)
2. USC (10)
3. LSU (6)
4. Ohio State (2)
5. FSU (8)
6. Georgia (8)
7. Auburn (6)
8. Michigan (2)
9. Notre Dame (0)
10. Clemson (4)
11. Texas (1)
12. Tennessee (1)
13. Texas A&M (6)
14. UCLA (5)
15. Ole Miss (4)
16. Florida (3)
17. Oklahoma (2)
18. Stanford (1)
19. Miami (1)
20. Oregon (1)
21. PSU (1)
22. MSU (1)
23. South Carolina (0)
24. Washington (0)
25. Nebraska (0)
30. Louisville (1)
33. Wisconsin
34. Virginia Tech
43. NC State
45. Baylor
48. Duke
52. Houston

 

[Irish Insanity]

I'm telling you guys............ we want Jim Tressel. The guy made a huge mistake and lied on an affidavit, but look how many former players came out in defense of the guy. And he's paid his price, per the NCAA. He can obviously coach, at both the D-IAA AND the highest levels of D-IA big boy football. He's got the "political" savvy that an ND coach needs. You don't think he earned the nickname "The Senator" because he is awkward with boosters, the media, school administrators, and fans, do you?

He would be absolute gold on IE, because people would be on here crying and moaning about how boring his offense is, while we just keep winning week after week after week after week after....

You get the idea.

I fully support this.

 

[NDRock]

2016 247 Team Talent Composite:
2016 College Football Team Talent Composite

This is a full roster composite. Big difference in the number of 5*s.

1. Alabama (17)
2. USC (10)
3. LSU (6)
4. Ohio State (2)
5. FSU (8)
6. Georgia (8)
7. Auburn (6)
8. Michigan (2)
9. Notre Dame (0)
10. Clemson
11. Texas
12. Tennessee
13. Texas A&M
14. UCLA
15. Ole Miss
16. Florida
17. Oklahoma
18. Stanford
19. Miami
20. Oregon
21. PSU
22. MSU
23. South Carolina
24. Washington
25. Nebraska
30. Louisville
33. Wisconsin
34. Virginia Tech
43. NC State
45. Baylor
48. Duke
52. Houston

Interestingly enough, we're the only team in the top 22 without a 5* player. Bama has 17. This team lacks "difference makers", probably why we lose all our close games.

 

[NDinBoston]

Interestingly enough, we're the only team in the top 22 without a 5* player. Bama has 17. This team lacks "difference makers", probably why we lose all our close games.

Yup, that was what I was driving at. One issue anyway.

 

[NDRock]

Yup, that was what I was driving at. One issue anyway.

Sorry, didn't see that you wrote that in your post. Good call.

 

[NDinBoston]

Sorry, didn't see that you wrote that in your post. Good call.

Yeah, I was editing it after posting so we were making the same point at the same time : ).

 

[Irish Insanity]

It sucks to admit this, but I'm not sure ND can be a consistent 10/11/12 win team. We arent Alabama or osu who sacrifice all sense of morals in exchange for wins.

I think it is going to take some 8-5 & 9-3 seasons to build a team that is experienced and talented enough to go 12-0. In 2012 we had a team like that. Last year we had a team like that. All other years were teams that were working towards that goal.

Never expected a season like this though. The team just can't seem to put a complete game together.

I think we can be a consistent 10 win team with the occasional playoff run. Our talent isn't that far below somewhere like OSU or Alabama or Clemson or OU or BSU (they've averaged 11 wins since 1999) or MSU or Oregon or LSU or TCU or USC or Wisconsin or FSU or.......

I think Kelly was a great coach. I'm not sure what happened, but he's not what he used to be. I think he can win a NC, just not at ND. I think it's in both parties best interest to go our separate ways. From Kelly's perspective, he's admitted before there's a shelf life to ND coaches, at what point does what's going on affect his future value somewhere else? From ND's perspective, this isn't acceptable. Kelly's definitely build the program back up, but it's time to turn it over to someone that can deliver the goods consistently.

 

[NDinBoston]

ND has allowed 19 sacks this year in just 7 games. It was 13 total in the 2012 NC season and again last year.

In losses => 4 (Stanford), 5 (NCS), 3 (Duke), 2 (MSU), and 3 (Texas)
In Wins => 2 (Syracuse), 0 (Nevada)

Does Kizer hold onto the ball too long?
Do the plays take too long to develop?
Are the plays too predictable allowing an aggressive rush?
Combination of the above?

Either way, it seems a factor, especially since many of these sacks seem to come late in these one-score games.