Brian Kelly Revisited (RIP BOZO)

[greyhammer90]

I do want to be clear, the issue at ND is bigger than BK. Far bigger. We haven't won a title since 1988, clearly this is indicative of something systematic and institutional. The institution is NOT in any way committed to winning. I will continue to call this hypocritical because I've grown more jaded to ND as an institution over the years.

ND has zero problem making a mockery of their so called Catholic beliefs and mission by supporting pro-choice politicians, supporting modernist gender theory, transgender rights, gay marriage, etc. Yet they mount their academic high horse when it comes to the program that has buttered their bread for the better part of a century. They don't have any cherished principles and they're not committed to any higher ideal, they are cheap and don't want to spend the money to put a quality product on the field. They act like the football program is some embarrassment to them, some red headed step child, and the not the breadwinner for the university for 100 years. ND football is the reason people in China and Africa know about the university. ND football is the reason midwestern boys like me dream of going to school there even if we can't play football well enough to make the team. "Rudy" doesn't get made for a middle tier football program.

I do think ND can do better than BK right now because BK is a coach in decline, but we're never going to "wake up the echoes" again until the administration changes its tune. Like I said earlier, ND either needs to A) do what is necessary to at least obtain a Stanford level of winning (a good role model program for us since they have similar academic standards and seemingly don't sell their soul completely SEC style) or B) just admit that they aren't interested in winning.

We're a top football program "to the extent it complies with our mission."

 

[Irish Insanity]

Good points. I think Mack Brown at Texas is one of the few who got better later (won a NC in his 8th year).

He's available.

We're a top football program "to the extent it complies with our mission."

No we're not.

 

[gkautz10]

The only thing I can agree with is that the team is declining. I am not buying the 7 year cycle. A good coach is a good coach whether they are in year one or their 20th. Saban is doing just fine in his 10th year at Bama. Coach K at Duke, John Wooden at UCLA, Belicheck at New England. This is the difference between a good coach and a great one.

I am not sure about Kelly the teacher. His players are not improving under him. There are several who seemed to be duds that are now in the NFL. Maybe he has them playing out of place or his system is restricting their true athletic ability.

That was the original posters point I think though. A good coach can have a pocket of success and it usually is early in their tenure. I agree BK has reached his peak. He is a good coach not a great one. If he continues as the coach he will continue to have a few 10+ win seasons but those will be in the minority.

In him calling out players. I agree that it is stupid. Mike Gundy has the right idea. These kids are out doing things right as people and students for the most part. Don't criticize them publicly for under performing according to your expectations. Call out yourself and the coaches who are being paid to do this, not the kids who are doing things right.

 

[NDgradstudent]

We're a top football program "to the extent it complies with our mission."

Beating our "aspirational peers" (what an idle, self-loathing phrase) such as Duke and Stanford does not comply with our mission.

 

[greyhammer90]

No we're not.

Beating our "aspirational peers" (what an idle, self-loathing phrase) such as Duke and Stanford does not comply with our mission.

Click the underlined.

 

[Buster Bluth]

I still support Kelly but am sick of the BS he spews in his press conferences blaming players and not putting any blame on himself or coaches.

Let me help you out:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u3N73xRnZGQ&feature=youtu.be&t=60

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u3N73xRnZGQ&feature=youtu.be&t=187

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u3N73xRnZGQ&feature=youtu.be&t=271

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u3N73xRnZGQ&feature=youtu.be&t=330

Pretty clearly, Kelly set out to correct the coaching gameplan after last week.

The difference this week is that it looked like the players are going through the motions, which is a much worse problem and why he said, to paraphrase, that coaching was now the least of his worries.

We've been clamoring for freshman like Daelin Hayes to play, Kelly saying "all 22 positions are up for grabs" is a way to 1) not single people out, and 2) signal that younger guys who play with passion can and will unseat veterans who have quit on BVG.

At least that's how I took the post-Duke press conference.

 

[GATTACA!]

You do know that Les went to Michigan and doesn't like ND, right?

Money talks

Do you want to become Michigan in the early 2010s? Because pining for Les Miles is how you become Michigan in the early 2010s.

They were right to pine for him, it would have been a great hire. Unfortunately for them (fortunately for us) they ended up with Brady Hoke. He's a top 10 coach so I don't really give two shiits if he's a "Notre Dame guy". We've tried that and it doesn't work.

Does he put out a defense that will knock you teeth out?

Yes

Does he recruit his ass off?

Yes

Does he get his kids to play with passion and buy in?

Yes

Is he a winner?

Yes

Sign me up.

 

[Buster Bluth]

For me it's pretty simple why Kelly should coach next season:

YEAR: Scoring Defense Rank (ppg)

2010: 23rd (20.2)
2011: 24th (20.7)
2012: 2nd (12.8)
2013: 27th (22.4)

2014: 85th (29.3)
2015: 34th (22.4)
2016: 101st (33.5)

Get rid of BVG and have a top 50 defense, at worst, and this team is 4-0 and ranked probably around #7.

Even 2007's defense only gave up 28.8ppg. BVG's squad is that bad.

 

[GATTACA!]

For me it's pretty simple why Kelly should coach next season:

YEAR: Scoring Defense Rank (ppg)

2010: 23rd (20.2)
2011: 24th (20.7)
2012: 2nd (12.8)
2013: 27th (22.4)

2014: 85th (29.3)
2015: 34th (22.4)
2016: 101st (33.5)

Get rid of BVG and have a top 50 defense, at worst, and this team is 4-0 and ranked probably around #7.

Even 2007's defense only gave up 28.8ppg. BVG's squad is that bad.

This is basically where I'm at too. The problem is Kelly has such an ego that he might never be willing to admit hiring BVG was a mistake by firing him. BVG should have been gone last year.

 

[Irish Insanity]

For me it's pretty simple why Kelly should coach next season:

YEAR: Scoring Defense Rank (ppg)

2010: 23rd (20.2)
2011: 24th (20.7)
2012: 2nd (12.8)
2013: 27th (22.4)

2014: 85th (29.3)
2015: 34th (22.4)
2016: 101st (33.5)

Get rid of BVG and have a top 50 defense, at worst, and this team is 4-0 and ranked probably around #7.

Even 2007's defense only gave up 28.8ppg. BVG's squad is that bad.

I agree. But the problem is he refuses to address any problems on his staff and defends them publicly (occasionally when asked but also when unprovoked) and it's not only worn on the fans, after yesterday it's clearly taken its toll on the team.

 

[Irish Insanity]

 

[Rocket89]

The larger point is that people need to stop believing the lie that we can only get Kelly, anyone who believes otherwise needs to be silenced.

Good, so you agree with me. Not sure why you didn't respond to that and then just repeated yourself.

ND has the money and the resources to go out and present a greater program to another coach who can come in and finish the job that Kelly started.

I agree, but you said we could go get anyone we wanted. That's entirely false.

Look, I get it. It's time to rally everyone and if you can't convince everyone that we can do better that's something to target as wrong-minded. I just don't buy into the naivety that we're in a super great position of power or that it's going to be easy to find a coach who can "put us over the top."

It only makes things worse to sell the world that we can get anyone we want.

 

[CanadianIrishFan306]

I still support Kelly but am sick of the BS he spews in his press conferences blaming players and not putting any blame on himself or coaches.

This.

Though every time Kelly talks my support starts to drop. I can't see how you can basically throw Kizer under the bus last game.

 

[calvegas04]

Thank you for doing what you had to do BK, I'm sure it's hard firing a friend.

 

[notredomer23]

Let me help you out:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u3N73xRnZGQ&feature=youtu.be&t=60

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u3N73xRnZGQ&feature=youtu.be&t=187

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u3N73xRnZGQ&feature=youtu.be&t=271

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u3N73xRnZGQ&feature=youtu.be&t=330

Pretty clearly, Kelly set out to correct the coaching gameplan after last week.

The difference this week is that it looked like the players are going through the motions, which is a much worse problem and why he said, to paraphrase, that coaching was now the least of his worries.

We've been clamoring for freshman like Daelin Hayes to play, Kelly saying "all 22 positions are up for grabs" is a way to 1) not single people out, and 2) signal that younger guys who play with passion can and will unseat veterans who have quit on BVG.

At least that's how I took the post-Duke press conference.

Kelly on if VanGorder is the right coordinator for this defense: "Abolsutely. Without question. That’s not even part of the conversation." Last week

After Duke: Q. And what about the defensive coaching leadership? Are you still --
BRIAN KELLY: Actually, that's probably the one area that I feel better about today. We did what I wanted today in terms of coaching. And coaching had nothing to do with the outcome today. I was pleased from that perspective. Obviously, we put our defense in a bad situation today and they gave our offense a chance to win, quite frankly. Those turnovers were deadly and obviously the kick off return for a touchdown just put us in a tough situation.

 

[ickythump1225]

The only thing I can agree with is that the team is declining. I am not buying the 7 year cycle. A good coach is a good coach whether they are in year one or their 20th. Saban is doing just fine in his 10th year at Bama. Coach K at Duke, John Wooden at UCLA, Belicheck at New England. This is the difference between a good coach and a great one.

I am not sure about Kelly the teacher. His players are not improving under him. There are several who seemed to be duds that are now in the NFL. Maybe he has them playing out of place or his system is restricting their true athletic ability.

1. I'm not saying the cycle is 7 years, I used 7 years as an example because that is the year we under with BK. Also, no coach IMPROVES after 7 years with the same team (you could use 3 or 5 years as a benchmark too if you wanted). Coach K, Belicheck, Saban, etc. are A)some of the greatest coaches of all time so not great examples of the average and B) didn't improve their teams drastically after 7 years, they've just managed consistent greatness. (Not as sure on Coach K, I'm not a basketball fan really).

Also, lets look at Saban. Saban won 3 titles in his first 6 years at Alabama. You could say his team's performance has decline a bit (though that is absurd because Alabama is so freaking good) and I don't think they'll ever recreate the dominance of 09-12. Belicheck will never recreate 3 out of 4 SBs. Their teams have fallen off a bit, but they set the bar so high and they are both so good that it isn't as apparent.

It is clear that BK is not in the very upper tier of college coaches so his fall off will be more pronounced.

 

[Buster Bluth]

Kelly on if VanGorder is the right coordinator for this defense: "Abolsutely. Without question. That’s not even part of the conversation." Last week

After Duke: Q. And what about the defensive coaching leadership? Are you still --
BRIAN KELLY: Actually, that's probably the one area that I feel better about today. We did what I wanted today in terms of coaching. And coaching had nothing to do with the outcome today. I was pleased from that perspective. Obviously, we put our defense in a bad situation today and they gave our offense a chance to win, quite frankly. Those turnovers were deadly and obviously the kick off return for a touchdown just put us in a tough situation.

Show me a coach who openly criticizes their coordinators and I'll show you a coach who won't have anyone to hire when he needs a new one.

 

[pkt77242]

I still support BK.

Now if he starts Zaire this week then maybe not.

 

[Classic Irish]

Show me a coach who openly criticizes their coordinators and I'll show you a coach who won't have anyone to hire when he needs a new one.

Bingo. I'm amazed that so many people fail to comprehend this.

 

[NDgradstudent]

Show me a coach who openly criticizes their coordinators and I'll show you a coach who won't have anyone to hire when he needs a new one.

The issue is not that he will not criticize him publicly. The issue is that he should have made this change in January, instead of now. This season is now ruined because of Kelly's incompetence.

 

[Cali_domer]

Show me a coach who openly criticizes their coordinators and I'll show you a coach who won't have anyone to hire when he needs a new one.

Charlie Strong has and hired some decent replacements

 

[NDgradstudent]

Maybe Saban will hire BK to replace Kiffin as OC.

 

[ickythump1225]

Maybe Saban will hire BK to replace Kiffin as OC.

And then we hire Kiffin to replace BK? No italics...

 

[NDgradstudent]

Reports coming in that Les Miles has been fired. If so, we'd better hope Swarbrick is making calls. They will nab Herman.

 

[kmoose]

Reports coming in that Les Miles has been fired. If so, we'd better hope Swarbrick is making calls. They will nab Herman.

Herman would be an idiot to take the ND Defensive Coordinator's job over being the Head Coach at LSU.

 

[irishff1014]

Reports coming in that Les Miles has been fired. If so, we'd better hope Swarbrick is making calls. They will nab Herman.

where the hell do you all get all this info?

 

[dang227]

Call Dave Arranda immediately

 

[NDgradstudent]

where the hell do you all get all this info?

One of the LSU beat reporters.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">BREAKING: Multiple sources confirm to The Advocate that <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/LSU?src=hash">#LSU</a> has fired football coach Les Miles and offensive coordinator Cam Cameron.</p>— Ross Dellenger (@RossDellenger) <a href="https://twitter.com/RossDellenger/status/780143021014736896">September 25, 2016</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[Redbar]

Sounds like Ed O will interim and top contenders are
Herman
Briles
Kiffin
Whittingham
Shaw
Aranda

Some of those are not remotely going to happen

 

[NDgradstudent]

Sounds like Ed O will interim and top contenders are
Herman
Briles
Kiffin
Whittingham
Shaw
Aranda

Some of those are not remotely going to happen

Florida fired Zook mid season and beat us out for Urbs. LSU will probably beat us out for Herman too. And why? Because our AD and (based on the poll here) about half of the fanbase are happy with 8-5.