Biden Presidency

[ND88]

Since you see the world only through the prism of race, I'll be interested to see how you label this mass shooting where the gunman was Syrian and all the victims were white. Hate crime, or nah?

Yes, it would be.

What else you got?

 

[Hammer Of The Gods]

Why exactly do you need to own a semi auto that has no use in hunting?

what in the world....

Semi Auto...basically means auto feeding and goes off as fast as you can pull trigger.

like every single hand gun.

can you even buy a hand gun that isn't auto feed, well that isn't a ancient artifact?

who hunts with a glock?

 

[NorthDakota]

Yes, it would be.

What else you got?

Is there any indication he specifically wanted to shoot white people?

 

[Blazers46]

Since you see the world only through the prism of race, I'll be interested to see how you label this mass shooting where the gunman was Syrian and all the victims were white. Hate crime, or nah?

I find it convenient the Spa shootings the narrative is hate crime.

The Colorado shooting it wasn’t a white shooter so the narrative seems to have shifted to gun rights.

 

[ulukinatme]

I find it convenient the Spa shootings the narrative is hate crime.

The Colorado shooting it wasn’t a white shooter so the narrative seems to have shifted to gun rights.

Yup, it was all about "white supremacy is at it again!" with the Colorado shooter until they found out he wasn't a white supremacist. The narrative completely flipped. People using tragedy to push agendas. At least be consistent.

 

[PerthDomer]

Odd, friends take pictures with their dead animals quite regularly.

I have little idea what "hunting" or "need" have to do with it though.

Your friends hunt with AR 15's? We don't hunt with those in Wisconsin where I grew up. We've decided people don't have a right to Uzi's despite the guarantee to bear arms in the 2nd ammendment so it's clear as a society we've decided people don't have a right to every fire arm that can be manufactured.

Firearm regulations won't stop these from ever happening. But they can mitigate this. Getting rid of weird gun porn culture, working on mental health, etc. Also make sense. This proposal makes sense to me (get rid of some dumb gun restrictions that don't help anyone in exchange for Swiss style background checks and limiting magazine capacity, some firearm types etc.

https://opensourcedefense.org/blog/...round-checks-are-a-debate-and-how-to-solve-it

 

[NorthDakota]

Your friends hunt with AR 15's? We don't hunt with those in Wisconsin where I grew up. We've decided people don't have a right to Uzi's despite the guarantee to bear arms in the 2nd ammendment so it's clear as a society we've decided people don't have a right to every fire arm that can be manufactured.

Firearm regulations won't stop these from ever happening. But they can mitigate this. Getting rid of weird gun porn culture, working on mental health, etc. Also make sense. This proposal makes sense to me (get rid of some dumb gun restrictions that don't help anyone in exchange for Swiss style background checks and limiting magazine capacity, some firearm types etc.

https://opensourcedefense.org/blog/...round-checks-are-a-debate-and-how-to-solve-it

The ones who own them, use them for deer and yotes.

In my perfect world, uzis, m60s, m240s, etc. could be owned by anyone. But.. such is life. Some limits go back to well before I was born. Most folks have some limit they'll at the very least tolerate.

Disingenuous people will claim "oh so you are okay with some limits, then why not this one?" Same goes for right leaning folks toward the left leaning folks, not a one-way. But with gun regs, I'm not willing to give up anymore room there. National limits a gun that shoots ONE bullet per trigger pull? No thanks.

In the event say... we hypothetically needed to pull an armed insurrection against a tyrannical government, a gun like an AR-15 would be the ideal weapon to be used against the Feds, more than adequate. The US struggled with goat farmers in Afghanistan and Iraq. Thats the crux of the second amendment after all... defense of a free state.

Getting rid of gun culture in America is not feasible nor is it desirable. It's a right to own one after all. Country founded on rebellion. Hell, we got a few guns in our house and I don't think any of them have ever been fired.

At the end of the day, we can print parts today for guns anyway. And tech in that department is only getting better and the blueprints are out there. Gun regs are becoming worthless.

Getting people who need mental help is important. Our culture/society is breaking down so who knows how much that will help.

 

[Irishbounty28]

If someone can please point me to the area of the 2nd Amendment specific to its relation to hunting? I didn’t think so. The forefathers wanted us to protect ourselves from tyrannical government using muskets for eternity.

 

[Wild Bill]

You could say I’m “hostile about guns,” or you could say I’m not a complete f*cking moron. This dude had a criminal conviction for assault, thought the government was wiretapping his phone, and repeatedly expressed anger about the U.S. government’s treatment of Muslims. If wanting to keep guns out of the hands of self-radicalizing religious zealots with a history of violence and psychosis makes me “hostile about guns,” so be it.

He's right about the government wiretapping, and their violent history. They unjustly attack and bomb nations and then bring citizens of the nation they attack/bomb to live here as refugees. This is a very dysfunctional govt that doesn't care much about the people they govern.

This doesn't justify the killers behavior but it's a compelling reason to own many guns and piles of ammo

​

 

[PerthDomer]

If the arguement for the 2nd ammendment is to equal the government's power the AR 15 doesnt do it. The founders had no reason to separate hunting, military arms etc. Because they're the same thing. We own 4 times the firearms per capita as the next country on the list which is Yemen... another icon of freedom. Additionally if you ground your arguement in potential to overthrow a tyrannical government (Jan 6th style perhaps) you lose 80% of the populace.

 

[PerthDomer]

To me firearms are like alcohol. Personally enjoyable and useful in certain circumstances with large externalities. Prohibition doesn't work. Complete freedom doesn't work. Mitigating drunk driving was hard and resisted in many states. Eventually common sense rules came into place around DUI etc.

 

[Blazers46]

I will add this. A mass shooter knows he going up against defenseless people for the most part. Here lays the question, if everyone was armed would there be mass shootings like these? How far would this idiot have gotten? I carry all day/everday. My wife does as well. I do not see how someone can feel fully protected for themselves or their family if they do not carry a gun or at the very least own one and have it handy at home. You are sitting ducks for these mental health casualties.

 

[Blazers46]

Also I do not think its a coincidence the rise of mass shootings and the rise of mental health issues seem to correlate. Gun problem v mental health problem. Mental health has risen with the rise of social media... so I blame social media and mental health.

 

[PerthDomer]

Mass shootings account for something like 2% of firearm deaths. What we see is the more firearms are owned the more firearm deaths there are. Owning one increases suicide risk, likelihood of homicide, likelihood of a heated arguement getting violent. Say an active shooter opens fire. You fire at him. A guy nearby doesnt know who fired first but thinks it's you. In this case the dude went in with a bullet proof vest, so I think he was undeterred by the potential of someone shooting at him. He'd planned for it

 

[TorontoGold]

I will add this. A mass shooter knows he going up against defenseless people for the most part. Here lays the question, if everyone was armed would there be mass shootings like these? How far would this idiot have gotten? I carry all day/everday. My wife does as well. I do not see how someone can feel fully protected for themselves or their family if they do not carry a gun or at the very least own one and have it handy at home. You are sitting ducks for these mental health casualties.

Is there a place in the world where gun ownership has gone up and gun violence has gone down?

 

[Blazers46]

Is there a place in the world where gun ownership has gone up and gun violence has gone down?

That is a good question.

 

[Blazers46]

Mass shootings account for something like 2% of firearm deaths. What we see is the more firearms are owned the more firearm deaths there are. Owning one increases suicide risk, likelihood of homicide, likelihood of a heated arguement getting violent. Say an active shooter opens fire. You fire at him. A guy nearby doesnt know who fired first but thinks it's you. In this case the dude went in with a bullet proof vest, so I think he was undeterred by the potential of someone shooting at him. He'd planned for it

I agree with your comment... I just dont like your "what if" scenario. I would like my odds better protecting myself than waiting for help or someone mistaking me for the bad guy. I am no Clint Eastwood but I am a decent shot.

 

[PerthDomer]

And that's why we have 1.2 weapons per person. The numbers say more guns equals more shootings, but the gut says if everyone were just Clint Eastwood we'd solve the problem.

 

[Blazers46]

And that's why we have 1.2 weapons per person. The numbers say more guns equals more shootings, but the gut says if everyone were just Clint Eastwood we'd solve the problem.

To each their own. If someone carrying a weapon saves your life one day at least remember to say thank you.

 

[NorthDakota]

If the arguement for the 2nd ammendment is to equal the government's power the AR 15 doesnt do it. The founders had no reason to separate hunting, military arms etc. Because they're the same thing. We own 4 times the firearms per capita as the next country on the list which is Yemen... another icon of freedom. Additionally if you ground your arguement in potential to overthrow a tyrannical government (Jan 6th style perhaps) you lose 80% of the populace.

The idea of 80% of people dying to take down the government is silly. The United States military isn't capable of killing 80% of the population.

 

[PerthDomer]

Sorry if I wasn't clear I mean 80% of voters. That's a fringe libertarian position that polls well in Idaho montana etc.

 

[PerthDomer]

Some promising news on the China front. China over reacted to EU sanctions over the Uighur genocide and now the China EU trade deal may be off. Just looking reasonable as China flips out is a promising strategy for now.

 

[Irishbounty28]

To me firearms are like alcohol. Personally enjoyable and useful in certain circumstances with large externalities. Prohibition doesn't work. Complete freedom doesn't work. Mitigating drunk driving was hard and resisted in many states. Eventually common sense rules came into place around DUI etc.

DUI’s only come into play when someone misused alcohol, which can also cause serious bodily injury and death. This would be relative to someone misusing a firearm which is already illegal. You already can’t shoot firearms in city limits, at houses or at people. The argument is in no way similar to DUI laws.

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

Yes, it would be.

What else you got?

Well done. Now show me any media headline today that reads, "Radicalized, anti-Trump, Syrian born Muslim killed 10 innocent white Americans."

 

[PerthDomer]

DUI’s only come into play when someone misused alcohol, which can also cause serious bodily injury and death. This would be relative to someone misusing a firearm which is already illegal. You already can’t shoot firearms in city limits, at houses or at people. The argument is in no way similar to DUI laws.

The drinking age was pushed to 21, alcohol taxes went up, norms of what is ok were changed (culturally drinking and driving used to be seen as ok). We accept some bad things happen (alcohol kills more than opiates or other illegal drugs medically, causes crashes, exacerbates domestic abuse, and causes birth deformities). Similarly with guns changing how we look at them, changing the ability to get them or types at the margins, addressing societal issues need to go into it. We'll never make guns illegal. We'll never get gun deaths to 0. That doesnt mean status quo.

 

[Blazers46]

The drinking age was pushed to 21, alcohol taxes went up, norms of what is ok were changed (culturally drinking and driving used to be seen as ok). We accept some bad things happen (alcohol kills more than opiates or other illegal drugs medically, causes crashes, exacerbates domestic abuse, and causes birth deformities). Similarly with guns changing how we look at them, changing the ability to get them or types at the margins, addressing societal issues need to go into it. We'll never make guns illegal. We'll never get gun deaths to 0. That doesnt mean status quo.

Guns, like it or not, are protected by the United States constitution (for whatever that is worth anymore). Alcohol and driving is not.

Your right to bear arms was designed to protect yourself from government. Wouldn’t it be sort of a conflict of interest to some degree if we have government telling us what guns or how many we can bear to potentially use against them one day?

 

[PerthDomer]

The alcohol analogy is useful to get liberals who've never seen a gun before to consider why maybe people who want to own guns aren't heartless bastards since they enjoy alcohol despite it being harmful to society. On the other end it's helpful because it's effectively treated as a right/something you'd never ban and need to deal with at the margins to prevent societal harm.

And as to your overthrow the government if you judge it as tyrannical that's controversial. I'd argue that when it's been tried it hasn't worked out. Just ask the South.

Some scholars have said that it is wrong to read a right of armed insurrection in the Second Amendment because clearly the founding fathers sought to place trust in the power of the ordered liberty of democratic government versus the anarchy of insurrectionists.[SUP][83][/SUP][SUP][84][/SUP] Other writers, such as Glenn Reynolds, contend that the framers did believe in an individual right to armed insurrection. They cite examples, such as the Declaration of Independence (describing in 1776 "the Right of the People to ... institute new Government") and the Constitution of New Hampshire (stating in 1784 that "nonresistance against arbitrary power, and oppression, is absurd, slavish, and destructive of the good and happiness of mankind").[SUP][85][/SUP]

 

[drayer54]

I’ve seen too many videos in the last 12 months alone of riots and violence that the police were helpless against and half our politicians dismissed to be interested in giving up my right to self defense. I’m also not interested in people who put up expensive fences and brought in the national guard to protect themselves from no credible threat tel me I should be even further on my own.

The country smashed gun sale records for a reason in 2020 and these pricks that have a 1 week memory that want me to sacrifice freedom for more laws that won’t work can shove it. Not one inch on gun control. Ever.

 

[Irishbounty28]

Creating barriers to reduce the legal purchase of firearms is not going to lead to insurmountable hurdles for criminals intent on committing horrific crimes. Simply put, violent crime rates have seen a steady decrease since the early 1990's according to FBI data. In that same time frame the number of legal gun owners has increased by approximately 20 million people, although the percentage of the population owning guns has decreased. 20 million more American's own guns today than in 1990, but violent crime is down by 50 percent. I'm not trying to diminish the atrocious nature of the mass shootings resulting in the loss of numerous innocent lives, but I do not believe simply "banning" any type of weapon is going to create the desired impact.

I think the Criminal Justice System in general needs to prosecute already existing gun laws to the fullest, before creating additional mundane laws trying to put a bandaid on a problem that exists for reasons beyond the legal purchase of firearms. It begins and ends with accountability. In saying this I mean holding those who commit the crimes accountable for THEIR actions, and stop creating excuses for an INDIVIDUALS disgusting behavior.

 

[PerthDomer]

Violent crime is back on the uptrend. Started in 2015. Oh, we have a copycat that just got intercepted with body armor 3 long guns and 2 pistols.

https://thehill.com/homenews/state-...arrying-5-guns-body-armor-into-georgia-publix