Biden Presidency

[NorthDakota]

Unless you have "alternative facts" this is wrong, https://www.bls.gov/charts/employment-situation/civilian-unemployment-rate.htm

Didn't say it should be disregarded, just a lot more factors at play.

Dodged again - yes or no, did Gavin Newsome and Andrew Cuomo try to hurt Trump by imposing stricter restrictions than other states? If they didn't impose the restrictions do you believe that Trump would have been competitive in those states?

Obama walked into a tough situation. I think any substantial dumping on him would be better focused later in his presidency.

Cuomo and Newsome, I think a couple big things were at play. When it comes to economic control of states, Democrat governors are going to be much more aggressive in actions they take. Cuomo in particular could take no action too strong for the liberal media, any action taken was largely praised and any action that objectively failed (Cuomo's nursing home policy) was brushed under the rug.

I also think those two were probably perfectly fine keeping their high-profile states locked down in an election year where it could hurt the Donald's reelection bid. Obviously Donald wasn't going to win NY/CA, but national perception matters. Plus the debt these states incur from a lack of productivity has a much better chance at being paid back by a Democrat administration than a Republican one.

Was it effective if that was their plan? I don't think so. GOP won back seats in CA for the first time in like 25 years or something like that, unless you count winning back The Predator's (Smokeshow Katie Hill) seat after she got caught fucking the help.

The elections were largely a GOP success. Won every single toss-up. Absolutely wrecked Dems in several high profile Senate races. Had Donald not fucked around after the election pissing and moaning, we'd have probably held both GA Senate seats.

Kinda funny that Newsom has lifted restrictions in CA as his recall petition nears the necessary signatures. Would be a bit amusing to see the GOP get a contender in place to make a run at the governor's mansion like Arnold did.

 

[Legacy]

Good article using Real GDP for comparing Presidential economic success.
Rating the Trump Economy Pre-Covid-19? Just Average (Bloomberg, Oct 2020)

If voters opt in November to toss Donald Trump out of the White House, as polls seem to indicate they will, he will probably leave office with the worst economic growth record of any president since Herbert Hoover.

That is, if real gross domestic product grows at a spectacular 18% annual pace in the current quarter, 6.5% in the fourth quarter and 5% in the first quarter of next year — the median forecast from the economists tracked by Bloomberg — annualized growth from Trump’s first quarter in office to his last will be 0.6%. If the economy does far better than that, and real GDP in the first quarter of 2021 rebounds to the level of the fourth quarter of 2019, annualized growth would be 1.7%, just barely edging out George W. Bush’s time in office (1.73% to 1.72%) for second-worst since Hoover.

Such comparisons do seem somewhat unfair to the current president, of course. The unprecedented 32.9% annualized drop in real GDP in the second quarter was the fault mainly of a global pandemic. President Trump’s efforts to cope with Covid-19 have perhaps been more fumbling than those of his counterparts in some other wealthy countries, but those countries have seen similar or larger drops in GDP. (cont)

Using population-adjusted growth for anualized per-capita real economic growth measure,

By this measure, economic growth under Trump before the pandemic ranks toward the back of the pack, ninth out of the past 12 presidents, 0.04 percentage points behind Dwight Eisenhower and 0.08 ahead of Trump’s predecessor Barack Obama. Throw in the first quarter of this year with its first hints of pandemic damage — a level of economic bad luck encountered by lots of other presidents — and Trump falls to 10th, behind Obama.

One problem in making such comparisons over time is that population growth is a major component of economic growth, and though presidential actions (especially immigration policies) can have some effect on population, it seems misleading to judge current growth against that of eras when the ranks of potential workers in the U.S. were expanding by leaps and bounds. So here’s economic growth adjusted for growth in the Bureau of Labor Statistics’s estimates of the civilian working-age (16 and older) population.

This puts economic performance under Trump, and Obama, in a better light, with pre-pandemic Trump coming in fifth place out of 12 and Obama in seventh. Growth in the 2010s didn’t match up to true economic boom periods such as the 1960s under John Kennedy and Lyndon Johnson, the 1980s under Ronald Reagan or the 1990s under Bill Clinton, but it was a whole lot better than in the decade that preceded it.

Another striking takeaway from the chart is that of the 11 presidents who preceded Trump, the five with the worst per-capita growth records were all Republicans. Before the pandemic Trump was not in that company, but barring a spectacular economic and political comeback he is now on track to make it six out of 12.

I wouldn’t make too much of this: As mentioned, luck plays a big role, and the partisan makeup of Congress probably does, too. Pro-growth policies can pay dividends long after a president has left office, and the effects of growth-retarding policies can linger. Still, it is interesting to see that the oft-heard claims that Republicans prioritize economic growth while Democrats care more about how the economic pie is divided don’t get any support from the GDP and GDI data.

 

[Cackalacky2.0]

Never thought I'd say it, but I miss YJ, at least he made sense and gave specifics to why he thought Trump's economic policies were good. He never just read off the Hannity provided list of Trump economic policy success lmao.

Currently three lingering questions that three posters haven't answered since they made them.

Leppy - CA/NY imposed tougher restrictions so that it could hurt Trump.
Drayer - Long lines at polling stations is caused by Dems trying to vote twice - an all timer right there
RDU - Transexuals are making women unsafe in bathrooms.

Holy fuck I laughed.

 

[goldandblue]

Never thought I'd say it, but I miss YJ, at least he made sense and gave specifics to why he thought Trump's economic policies were good. He never just read off the Hannity provided list of Trump economic policy success lmao.

Currently three lingering questions that three posters haven't answered since they made them.

Leppy - CA/NY imposed tougher restrictions so that it could hurt Trump.
Drayer - Long lines at polling stations is caused by Dems trying to vote twice - an all timer right there
RDU - Transexuals are making women unsafe in bathrooms.

I'll bite on this one even though I'm not RDU I assume we must hold a similar though process there. If we do not, apologies. Do I believe that your everyday Transexual is going to make women unsafe in the bathroom. No I do not. I think the issue/concern for most of us is that this is a hole/window for not your every day Transexual to take advantage of.

I'm a dad. I have a 9 year old daughter so I probably see things a little differently just due to the RISK I see that it can create. How many is too many? How many 9 year old girls getting raped in a bathroom would it take for someone to see that maybe this wasn't a good idea? What if it was mine? What if it was yours? What about my daughters privacy and rights to feel comfortable knowing or thinking that she doesn't have males in the bathroom with her?

The truth is, I believe many Transsexuals already use the bathroom of their choice assuming they feel comfortable enough to do so. I have zero problems with any LGBTQ person. To each their own. I do not think they are dangerous people or sick or demented or anything. I think they just have certain feelings that I don't. And that is perfectly fine.

I am not trying to be a dick or argue. You seemed like you wanted to know why people are against it and I'm just trying to give you my thoughts on it. I don't think national policy is going to keep women/girls from getting raped/assaulted etc. I do think that it creates a window for an opportunistic sicko that they don't feel like they currently have.

It's kind of like why we buy insurance on our vehicles. I haven't had a wreck in YEARS. That is a lot of money that I could have saved. But if I had one wreck, it would probably cost much more than I have saved. We buy insurance because of RISK.

I wouldn't risk my daughter or yours so that someone can use a bathroom that they want to. I'm not stupid enough to believe that she won't be at danger from bad people in her life time in all kinds of other situations. I'm also not stupid enough to believe that she won't make her own bad decisions throughout life.

 

[BilboBaggins]

Obama walked into a tough situation. I think any substantial dumping on him would be better focused later in his presidency.

2013, 2014, and 2015 were great years for the economy, job growth, stock market growth, unemployment....you name it.

Obama's second term is when things finally started to hit their stride.

 

[ab2cmiller]

This discussion is maddening. Right wingers trying to act like Obama didn't have major hurdles that he inherited that related to economic success or lack thereof in his first year or two. Meanwhile lefties keep throwing out Trump's "anemic" economic growth. This is literally insane. There was a freaking pandemic that shut down the entire country. Both arguments are totally disingenuous.

 

[NorthDakota]

RDU - Transexuals are making women unsafe in bathrooms.

Couple ways to look at it i suppose. I personally don't care if a girl uses the men's room. I presume we've all been to a bar before when you want into a men's room and find a girl in there because the line was too long for the girl's room.

If a girl is willing to go through that amount of work to see me take a leak, good on her I guess.

BUT By allowing men in a woman's restroom, you enable perverts a legal path to get their foot in the door.

The other area I dont like it is middle and high school locker rooms. I'm sorry but I don't think it's unreasonable to have boys and girls dress and shower separately. It's already uncomfortable for too many kids. Throw a boy in a ladies room or a girl in a boys room, woof.

I'm sure others can articulate the "view" better than I can. I dont like the idea of making it socially acceptable or legally protected for men to be in a lady's room.

 

[NorthDakota]

2013, 2014, and 2015 were great years for the economy, job growth, stock market growth, unemployment....you name it.

Obama's second term is when things finally started to hit their stride.

I'm mostly suggesting those are the years that would be most vulnerable to criticism because the early years were going to result in aggressive spending regardless of which party was in charge. Bush is pretty much the definition of generic Republican and even he signed a big stimulus.

I'll leave the regulation/deregulation stuff to others more learned. I was lucky enough to be in a state that was not really impacted by 2008.

 

[TorontoGold]

[/B]


I'll bite on this one even though I'm not RDU I assume we must hold a similar though process there. If we do not, apologies. Do I believe that your everyday Transexual is going to make women unsafe in the bathroom. No I do not. I think the issue/concern for most of us is that this is a hole/window for not your every day Transexual to take advantage of.

I'm a dad. I have a 9 year old daughter so I probably see things a little differently just due to the RISK I see that it can create. How many is too many? How many 9 year old girls getting raped in a bathroom would it take for someone to see that maybe this wasn't a good idea? What if it was mine? What if it was yours? What about my daughters privacy and rights to feel comfortable knowing or thinking that she doesn't have males in the bathroom with her?

The truth is, I believe many Transsexuals already use the bathroom of their choice assuming they feel comfortable enough to do so. I have zero problems with any LGBTQ person. To each their own. I do not think they are dangerous people or sick or demented or anything. I think they just have certain feelings that I don't. And that is perfectly fine.

I am not trying to be a dick or argue. You seemed like you wanted to know why people are against it and I'm just trying to give you my thoughts on it. I don't think national policy is going to keep women/girls from getting raped/assaulted etc. I do think that it creates a window for an opportunistic sicko that they don't feel like they currently have.

It's kind of like why we buy insurance on our vehicles. I haven't had a wreck in YEARS. That is a lot of money that I could have saved. But if I had one wreck, it would probably cost much more than I have saved. We buy insurance because of RISK.

I wouldn't risk my daughter or yours so that someone can use a bathroom that they want to. I'm not stupid enough to believe that she won't be at danger from bad people in her life time in all kinds of other situations. I'm also not stupid enough to believe that she won't make her own bad decisions throughout life.

These are all fair points. I don't have any kids of my own, but I can see the logic behind your thinking.

I think the ostracizing of transexual people to make them feel unwelcome in the bathroom is way overblown. I don't have the stats in front of me, but I am willing bet a ton that the number of people charged with rape in a girls bathroom who are transexual is almost negligible. Kind of the same argument in saying that women shouldn't dress how they want because it opens them up to being raped.

All would be solved if more parenting/education was done for boys to not rape women.

 

[TorontoGold]

Couple ways to look at it i suppose. I personally don't care if a girl uses the men's room. I presume we've all been to a bar before when you want into a men's room and find a girl in there because the line was too long for the girl's room.

If a girl is willing to go through that amount of work to see me take a leak, good on her I guess.

BUT By allowing men in a woman's restroom, you enable perverts a legal path to get their foot in the door.

The other area I dont like it is middle and high school locker rooms. I'm sorry but I don't think it's unreasonable to have boys and girls dress and shower separately. It's already uncomfortable for too many kids. Throw a boy in a ladies room or a girl in a boys room, woof.

I'm sure others can articulate the "view" better than I can. I dont like the idea of making it socially acceptable or legally protected for men to be in a lady's room.

But you're not saying "Open season lads go get em" it's for transwomen, not men. Biologically they may still have male parts, but they're likely on some sort of T blockers so chemically they're more woman than man.

Let's be real, if you or I waltzed into the girls change room in school we'd be endlessely chirped and wouldn't risk that kind of backlash. It's kind of tough to pull the whole "I'm trans" card on a whim. Plus if a trans person rapes someone, that's still rape.

 

[GowerND11]

Couple ways to look at it i suppose. I personally don't care if a girl uses the men's room. I presume we've all been to a bar before when you want into a men's room and find a girl in there because the line was too long for the girl's room.

If a girl is willing to go through that amount of work to see me take a leak, good on her I guess.

BUT By allowing men in a woman's restroom, you enable perverts a legal path to get their foot in the door.

The other area I dont like it is middle and high school locker rooms. I'm sorry but I don't think it's unreasonable to have boys and girls dress and shower separately. It's already uncomfortable for too many kids. Throw a boy in a ladies room or a girl in a boys room, woof.

I'm sure others can articulate the "view" better than I can. I dont like the idea of making it socially acceptable or legally protected for men to be in a lady's room.

So look at this from another lens: Imagine being a trans kid and going through all the usual awkward teenage years, AND the feelings of being different and not loving your body, yourself, being confused, etc.

 

[Legacy]

This discussion is maddening. Right wingers trying to act like Obama didn't have major hurdles that he inherited that related to economic success or lack thereof in his first year or two. Meanwhile lefties keep throwing out Trump's "anemic" economic growth. This is literally insane. There was a freaking pandemic that shut down the entire country. Both arguments are totally disingenuous.

I am cautious about using "left" and "right" which is an unjust simplification for those who are so labeled. That can lead then to dismissing any factual information because of the source(s). It also implies bias, which may well not be true. Something quantifiable like economic data can lift a discussion above the usual political nattering and hyperbole.

Regardless, in the article I posted, Population-Adjusted Growth with Annualized per-capita real economic growth shows that Trump's was 1.6 through the fourth quarter of 2019 (pre-pandemic) and that through the first quarter of 2020 was 1.2.

The other Presidents (worse) using that measure of economic growth were:
Nixon - 0.3
Bush (W) - 0.3
Bush (GW) - 0.6
Ford - 0.9
Eisenhower - 1.1
Obama - 1.3
Carter - 1.5
Trump (through 4th quarter 2019) - 1.6
Reagan - 2.3
Clinton - 2.8
Johnson - 3.5
Kennedy - 3.9

So, pre-pandemic Trump did slightly better than Obama and Carter. Trump, Carter, GW and Ford were all one-term Presidents.

Source - https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/a...c-growth-record-compares-with-past-presidents

 

[NorthDakota]

But you're not saying "Open season lads go get em" it's for transwomen, not men. Biologically they may still have male parts, but they're likely on some sort of T blockers so chemically they're more woman than man.

Let's be real, if you or I waltzed into the girls change room in school we'd be endlessely chirped and wouldn't risk that kind of backlash. It's kind of tough to pull the whole "I'm trans" card on a whim. Plus if a trans person rapes someone, that's still rape.

Nah I'm saying I personally wouldn't care, I don't expect the rest of society to conform to that. Thats also me at 29, not me at 14 or 15. The amount of hazing that went on in the locker room back then....yeesh.

And yeah, it'd be worse than chirping. Would likely be an ass-kicking. But if the school needs to respect your decision, then I dont see how you couldn't pull it on a whim. I'm not worried about normal guys doing it though. I'm more concerned about the weirdos without friends doing it.

We had a kid who claimed to be gay in my class. Grew his hair out like a girl, kinda dressed like a emo girl might, wore makeup, all that jazz. He's now married with kids as a (relatively) normal straight guy. It'd be guys like him I'd be most concerned about.

At the end of the day, on stuff like this, I prefer bright line rules that can be applied easily.

So look at this from another lens: Imagine being a trans kid and going through all the usual awkward teenage years, AND the feelings of being different and not loving your body, yourself, being confused, etc.

I presume they are going to feel awkward and different regardless of which bathroom we put them in. Think I've seen some data that those folx (progressive) tend to have a lot of problems that aren't going to be fixed by having them shower with the opposite sex.

 

[GoIrish41]

And you're a classroom teacher? lol

Am I? I hadn’t realized I’d taken a new job in a field I’ve never worked in. I wonder why they keep paying me at my old job.

Your post made it sound like the first thing he did was pass a stimulus after taking office, so I assumed you were talking about the stimulus that he executed after Bush left office. You can see how a fella could get confused as you idiots were complaining about it as soon as he took office. And then he saved the auto industry and that was somehow bad, too.

 

[NorthDakota]

Am I? I hadn’t realized I’d taken a new job in a field I’ve never worked in. I wonder why they keep paying me at my old job.

The DoD paid me for 4 months and didn't even know I was on the base. No oversight by government agencies would surprise me lmaooo

 

[GowerND11]

I presume they are going to feel awkward and different regardless of which bathroom we put them in. Think I've seen some data that those folx (progressive) tend to have a lot of problems that aren't going to be fixed by having them shower with the opposite sex.

I agree with you here. The problems (and solutions) are deeper and more expansive than bathrooms and locker rooms. I don't know if we can come up with anything that really solves all of the issues at hand, without people on either side being left upset, confused, angry, etc.

I'm torn on if allowing a child under 18 to begin transitioning should be allowed on ethical, moral, and legal grounds (can they give consent to this).

 

[goldandblue]

These are all fair points. I don't have any kids of my own, but I can see the logic behind your thinking.

I think the ostracizing of transexual people to make them feel unwelcome in the bathroom is way overblown. I don't have the stats in front of me, but I am willing bet a ton that the number of people charged with rape in a girls bathroom who are transexual is almost negligible. Kind of the same argument in saying that women shouldn't dress how they want because it opens them up to being raped.

All would be solved if more parenting/education was done for boys to not rape women.

It is crazy what we can accomplish when we try to understand each other. I also agree that at this point, I would be surprised if there is even a documented case of a transexual raping someone in the bathroom. Well, let me back up, there probably is a case because people are crazy as hell. I just don't want to increase that number. Not even by 1.

Your last statement is interesting. I do think parents should have the NO means NO talk with their sons and daughters. I bet there are some statistics out there for committed rapes in comparison to parental situations. Maybe I can dig those up when I'm not at work.

 

[goldandblue]

I agree with you here. The problems (and solutions) are deeper and more expansive than bathrooms and locker rooms. I don't know if we can come up with anything that really solves all of the issues at hand, without people on either side being left upset, confused, angry, etc.

I'm torn on if allowing a child under 18 to begin transitioning should be allowed on ethical, moral, and legal grounds (can they give consent to this).

Well our government has determined that anyone less than 21 years old is not capable of understanding the risks associated with buying a pack of smokes so you have that....

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

Unless you have "alternative facts" this is wrong, https://www.bls.gov/charts/employment-situation/civilian-unemployment-rate.htm

Didn't say it should be disregarded, just a lot more factors at play.

Dodged again - yes or no, did Gavin Newsome and Andrew Cuomo try to hurt Trump by imposing stricter restrictions than other states? If they didn't impose the restrictions do you believe that Trump would have been competitive in those states?

Nothing was dodged. I said CA and NY governors implemented the toughest restrictions and saw the most people leave their states in 2020.

In a separate post, I said Dem governors (not just CA and NY) made life miserable with restrictions on their citizens to help Dem candidates in elections. I'm talking about states like PA, Wisconsin, Michigan, etc.

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

Leppy and Co are literally comparing 2010 vs 2017 as an indicator of who was the better economic President. All one can do is lol and smfh.

It's not the only thing, but it's something. You'll try to complicate it, but it's not hard to compare the economic situations between the two presidents.

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

Never thought I'd say it, but I miss YJ, at least he made sense and gave specifics to why he thought Trump's economic policies were good. He never just read off the Hannity provided list of Trump economic policy success lmao.

Currently three lingering questions that three posters haven't answered since they made them.

Leppy - CA/NY imposed tougher restrictions so that it could hurt Trump.
Drayer - Long lines at polling stations is caused by Dems trying to vote twice - an all timer right there
RDU - Transexuals are making women unsafe in bathrooms.

Not what I said but nice try. For comparison sake, chew on this cigar:

GoIrish41--- wants to limit free speech of those with whom he disagrees. So distraught after Trump's win in 2016 he disappeared for a year from IE.

Arahop --- rioters who burned buildings/ destroyed property over summer were justified because they were fighting racial injustice, but the nutjobs who stormed the capitol should be prosecuted to the full extent.

Eddy has had some doozies in the past, too.

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

Am I? I hadn’t realized I’d taken a new job in a field I’ve never worked in. I wonder why they keep paying me at my old job.

Your post made it sound like the first thing he did was pass a stimulus after taking office, so I assumed you were talking about the stimulus that he executed after Bush left office. You can see how a fella could get confused as you idiots were complaining about it as soon as he took office. And then he saved the auto industry and that was somehow bad, too.

My bad, I did mistake you with someone else.

 

[dublinirish]

Leppy was spot on.
But don't forget Michigan and DC!
DC rates have not improved and hospital beds available is down, but you know the right guy is in office so this is Dems in a nutshell:
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">DC, let go of your boards. If you know a business that still has boards up, please remind them to pull them down.<a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/DCisOpen?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#DCisOpen</a> <a href="https://t.co/qbTh522rvI">pic.twitter.com/qbTh522rvI</a></p>— Mayor Muriel Bowser (@MayorBowser) <a href="https://twitter.com/MayorBowser/status/1354483111220965380?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 27, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

I don't remember saying long lines at polls are caused by Dems trying to vote twice. I live in a white burb and waited in a ridiculously long line this year for the first time ever. I do think Dems cheat and have seen some weird data in the PAC circles, but I'm not arguing it here.

As for RDU- I'm not sure about tranny's being violent in the bathroom, but the aggressive demand for acceptance of Trannys everywhere is just weird and bad. I recall disagreeing with social conservatives over gay marriage because they argued it was a slippery slope. Turns out they were right. We have genders galore and tranny stuff being shoved in our face now.

god forbid you couldn't just let people be happy

 

[IrishLax]

Leppy was spot on.
But don't forget Michigan and DC!
DC rates have not improved and hospital beds available is down, but you know the right guy is in office so this is Dems in a nutshell:

Yeah this is a lie. As of today, DC's new case rate (7-day moving average) is down 35% from the peak two weeks ago. Why make stuff up?

 

[drayer54]

Yeah this is a lie. As of today, DC's new case rate (7-day moving average) is down 35% from the peak two weeks ago. Why make stuff up?

Sure, it's improved some in the past week. But not since these ridiculous restrictions were put in place to keep people miserable. Were the numbers ever lower before that and kept in place? The sun came out for these Dems since creepy Joe was put in power and now they're finally backing off.

It's all about power to these people.

 

[drayer54]

god forbid you couldn't just let people be happy

I'm fine with people doing what they want in their bedroom. But when I'm getting company training on stating pronouns and learning about the 13 identified genders on the new diversity page--- it's beyond just letting people be happy.

 

[dublinirish]

I'm fine with people doing what they want in their bedroom. But when I'm getting company training on stating pronouns and learning about the 13 identified genders on the new diversity page--- it's beyond just letting people be happy.

Thats the equivalent of some racist person back god knows when saying oh god i can't even say the N word anymore, what has the world come to??

 

[drayer54]

Thats the equivalent of some racist person back god knows when saying oh god i can't even say the N word anymore, what has the world come to??

You're implying I'm a racist because I think it's a stupid idea to have me- a dude- with a beard- put he/him after his name on WebEx calls?

 

[dublinirish]

You're implying I'm a racist because I think it's a stupid idea to have me- a dude- with a beard- put he/him after his name on WebEx calls?

I said equivalent. But if you think treating people with respect its an inconvenience to you then that's something you have to figure out for yourself.

 

[BilboBaggins]

It's not the only thing, but it's something. You'll try to complicate it, but it's not hard to compare the economic situations between the two presidents.

AKA "don't use context just gobble up the talking points"